[3.5] Divine Lightning Bolt Part II

[Thurbane]

Since this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?204476-3-5-Divine-Lightning-Bolt) thread is too old to post to (and also this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?510301) one), I'm starting a new thread. Sorry in advance for "wall of text".

I have a weird obsession with the Hexer PrC. It's a decent full BAB, full casting PrC - with nifty curse abilities and 5 bonus spells known. Its casting progression is for any casting class, arcane or divine.

Aside from the racial restrictions, and getting the Survival skill high enough, the most awkward thing about entry is "Able to cast lightning bolt as a divine spell."


Lightning Bolt appears on the following spells lists, AFAIK: (arcane) Sor/Wiz 3, Sha'ir 3, Warmage 3; (divine) Adept 3, Sha'ir 3, Shugenja [fire] 4. So Adept, Sha'ir and Shugenja can meet the reqs out of the box, as can an Archivist if he copies a scroll from any of these classes.
Arcane Disciple Cleric is a Dragon Mag variant that can access lightning bolt.
A Favoured Soul using the Favoured of Bahamut/Tiamat ACF can access it by ECL 12.
The Dragonblood Pact spell would allow a dragon blooded Favored Soul (or Divine Bard; if can be combined with Savage Bard, you get Survival as a class skill) to swap spells with another dragon blooded creature, and could obtain Lightning Bolt that way. Works for any divine class with a "spells known" mechanic.
The Draconic Legacy (topaz) feat works, but is very feat intensive.
An arcane caster using the Alternate Source Spell or Southern Magician feats also technically meets the reqs, although they have their own issues (ASS requires divine casting to begin with; while SM can cause difficulties with the racial reqs of the PrC - neanderthal or Half-Orc {with the Humanoid Heritage feat} may be a viable option).
The Thunder domain has Lightning Bolt as a 4th level spell. If you can wrangle the skills, you may be able to enter Hexer as a single classed Cleric. Also useful for other classes that can access domains.
The Customize Domain feat may allow you to swap out an existing 3rd level domain spell for Lightning Bolt, with Air domain being called out. You already need access to the desired spell, though.
The Extra Spell may work, if the FAQ ruling that it can't add spells that aren't already on your class list is ignored.
You can emulate Lightning Bolt with some divine/domain spells including Greater Anyspell, Miracle, Limited Wish, Wish and (Greater) Shadow Evocation. In some cases, though, it still counts as arcane.
There's two that I don't really understand, and not sure if they actually work: Geomancer PrC, and Dragonblood Pool location.

All feedback, other ideas and corrections are welcome.

Sources (non-core/SRD):
Alternate Source Spell - Dragon #325
Arcane Disciple Cleric - Dragon #311
Archivist - HoH
Customize Domain - Dragon #325
Draconic Legacy - RotD
Dragonblood Pact - DoF
Extra Spell - CAr
Favored of Bahamut/Tiamat - DrM
Favored Soul - CD
Geomancer - CD
Greater Anyspell - SC
Hexer - MotW
Neanderthal - Fr
Sha'ir - Dragon Compendium
Shugenja - CD
Southern Magician - RoF
Thunder Domain - Dragon #290
Warmage - CAr

Cheers - T

[AvatarVecna]

Generic Spellcaster (Unearthed Arcana) can choose to be Divine (casting off Wis) or Arcane (casting off Int or Cha), but regardless of which way they go, they can draw spells known from the Clr/Sor/Wiz lists. It's not the best solution, at least partially because it's still got delayed access similar to sorcerer/favored soul, but a bigger issue is making sure you're at a table where combining Generic Classes and normal classes (even PrCs) is allowed; it's not technically illegal, but it's strongly discouraged to let players multiclass between Generics and normal classes, and it's only slightly less strongly discouraged to let players PrC out of generics. Again...not illegal, so this should work, but if this is for more than just theorycrafting, using this solution is probably gonna require checking with the DM a bit more than usual.

[Falontani]

Geomancer 4 also allows you to cast arcane spells as divine


Neanderthal
1 Tokenª Evoker 1: Energy Affinity: Electricity; Spell Focus: Evocation
2 Cloistered Cleric 1: Air Domain, Nature Domain, Knowledge Domain
3 Master Specialist 1: Skill Focus: Spellcraft(b), Deceptive Spell
4 Master Specialist 2
5 Geomancer 1
6 Geomancer 2: Energy Substitution: Electricity
7 Geomancer 3
8 Geomancer 4
9 Hexer 1: Born of Three Thunders
10 Hexer 2
11 Hexer 3
12 Hexer 4: Spell Focus: Conjuration
13 Hexer 5
14 Hexer 6
15 Hexer 7: Embody Energy: Electricity
16 Hexer 8
17 Hexer 9
18 Hexer 10: Energy Admixture: Electricity
19 Master Specialist 3: Greater Spell Focus: Evocation(b)
20 Master Specialist 4

ªComplete Arcane lists that carved tokens can be used as an alternative to Spell Books, meaning you dont need to be able to read.



A good cleric (or a neutral cleric of a good deity) can channel stored spell energy into healing spells that the cleric did not prepare ahead of time. The cleric can "lose" any prepared spell that is not a domain spell in order to cast any cure spell of the same spell level or lower (a cure spell is any spell with "cure" in its name). For example, a good cleric who has prepared command (a 1st-level spell) may lose command in order to cast cure light wounds (also a 1st-level spell). Clerics of good deities can cast cure spells in this way because they are especially proficient at wielding positive energy.

An evil cleric (or a neutral cleric of an evil deity), on the other hand, can't convert prepared spells to cure spells but can convert them to inflict spells (an inflict spell is one with "inflict" in its name).

A cleric who is neither good nor evil and whose deity is neither good nor evil can convert spells to either cure spells or inflict spells (player's choice), depending on whether the cleric is more proficient at wielding positive or negative energy. Once the player makes this choice, it cannot be reversed. This choice also determines whether the cleric turns or commands undead (see below). Exceptions: All lawful neutral clerics of Wee Jas (goddess of death and magic) convert prepared spells to inflict spells, not cure spells. All clerics of St. Cuthbert (god of retribution) and all nonevil clerics of Obad-Hai (god of nature) convert prepared spells to cure spells, not inflict spells. If you have a second level wizard spell slot that has a prepared spell, you may spontaneously convert the second level prepared wizard spell into a Cure Moderate Wounds (if good) or Inflict Moderate Wounds (if evil).

Please note that this build is not optimized whatsoever, I just threw stuff together

[ShurikVch]

"Red Sails: Bright Sun, Mother Earth" article (Dragon #290) tells about Slavic deities - including Perun, who have Thunder domain with Lightning Bolt as 4th-level spell

[Anthrowhale]

Expanding on the Geomancer approach, the most natural approach is something like Sha'ir 3/Geomancer 4/Hexer 10/Geomancer 3. Geomancer has the right skills for Hexer, so the only awkwardness is acquiring access to Knowledge[Nature], perhaps by taking Knowledge Devotion. You end up with BAB+16 and 9th level spells.

[Thurbane]

Generic Spellcaster (Unearthed Arcana) can choose to be Divine (casting off Wis) or Arcane (casting off Int or Cha), but regardless of which way they go, they can draw spells known from the Clr/Sor/Wiz lists. It's not the best solution, at least partially because it's still got delayed access similar to sorcerer/favored soul, but a bigger issue is making sure you're at a table where combining Generic Classes and normal classes (even PrCs) is allowed; it's not technically illegal, but it's strongly discouraged to let players multiclass between Generics and normal classes, and it's only slightly less strongly discouraged to let players PrC out of generics. Again...not illegal, so this should work, but if this is for more than just theorycrafting, using this solution is probably gonna require checking with the DM a bit more than usual.

Good point, but yeah, as they don't generally exist alongside standard classes, not ideal.


Geomancer 4 also allows you to cast arcane spells as divine


Neanderthal
1 Tokenª Evoker 1: Energy Affinity: Electricity; Spell Focus: Evocation
2 Cloistered Cleric 1: Air Domain, Nature Domain, Knowledge Domain
3 Master Specialist 1: Skill Focus: Spellcraft(b), Deceptive Spell
4 Master Specialist 2
5 Geomancer 1
6 Geomancer 2: Energy Substitution: Electricity
7 Geomancer 3
8 Geomancer 4
9 Hexer 1: Born of Three Thunders
10 Hexer 2
11 Hexer 3
12 Hexer 4: Spell Focus: Conjuration
13 Hexer 5
14 Hexer 6
15 Hexer 7: Embody Energy: Electricity
16 Hexer 8
17 Hexer 9
18 Hexer 10: Energy Admixture: Electricity
19 Master Specialist 3: Greater Spell Focus: Evocation(b)
20 Master Specialist 4

ªComplete Arcane lists that carved tokens can be used as an alternative to Spell Books, meaning you dont need to be able to read.


If you have a second level wizard spell slot that has a prepared spell, you may spontaneously convert the second level prepared wizard spell into a Cure Moderate Wounds (if good) or Inflict Moderate Wounds (if evil).

Please note that this build is not optimized whatsoever, I just threw stuff together

Expanding on the Geomancer approach, the most natural approach is something like Sha'ir 3/Geomancer 4/Hexer 10/Geomancer 3. Geomancer has the right skills for Hexer, so the only awkwardness is acquiring access to Knowledge[Nature], perhaps by taking Knowledge Devotion. You end up with BAB+16 and 9th level spells.

Cool - Geomancer is worth looking at then. Nice build ideas. :smallsmile:


"Red Sails: Bright Sun, Mother Earth" article (Dragon #290) tells about Slavic deities - including Perun, who have Thunder domain with Lightning Bolt as 4th-level spell

Great find, as usual. I was convinced there was no domains with Lightning Bolt. That may also open up Domain Draught/Planar Touchstone/Substitute Domain shenanigans...

[thorr-kan]

Great find, as usual. I was convinced there was no domains with Lightning Bolt. That may also open up Domain Draught/Planar Touchstone/Substitute Domain shenanigans...
Dragon #290 is firmly in 3.0 territory; my checklist says 3.5 support started with Dragon #309. Take that for whatever you think it's worth.

But it's a start! This has come up in multiple discussions where nobody could believe lightning bolt wasn't a domain spell. And here it is!

Interestingly, none of the many cleric domain indexes I can find list Thunder.

[Thurbane]

Dragon #290 is firmly in 3.0 territory; my checklist says 3.5 support started with Dragon #309. Take that for whatever you think it's worth.

But it's a start! This has come up in multiple discussions where nobody could believe lightning bolt wasn't a domain spell. And here it is!

Interestingly, none of the many cleric domain indexes I can find list Thunder.

Un-updated 3.0 is generally fair game in 3.5 games - the bigger issue is that Dragon mag material isn't as widely accepted as other sources.

Majority of domain lists don't include Dragon-only content, it seems.

[thorr-kan]

Un-updated 3.0 is generally fair game in 3.5 games - the bigger issue is that Dragon mag material isn't as widely accepted as other sources.
Truth.

Though, really given some Dragon content, Thunder really doesn't seem to bad. And, hey! It's one of a handful of sources for sonic resistance!


Majority of domain lists don't include Dragon-only content, it seems.
Someday. Maybe.