Advice for a dwarf forge cleric/bard multiclass wanted

[Katzekerl]

I am currently making a forge cleric dwarf for a new campaign next week. After listening to too much Clamavi De Profundis I decided I want to make him a bard multiclass. I think he is a young scholar who has studied dwarf historical lore and wants to reinvigorate the dwarf kingdom that is in some decline from its glory days, and is then blessed by Moradin in his efforts, so fluffwise he should start as a bard. Probably 3 levels of bard for a college, likely swords, then at least 2 cleric. Beyond that I’m not sure what order to take things, having mostly played martials before. I think I would like most of his spells to be buffs for his allies and weapons.

Thank you for any advice or thoughts anyone may have to offer this relative newbie.

[nickl_2000]

Alright, a few questions that will help us help you.

1: Are you looking for flavour, optimization, or something else for advice?
2: Do you know how high a level you want the character to go?
3: Do you want Bard focus with some Cleric, Cleric Focus with some Bard, or Fairly even split?

[MrStabby]

Well there is a difference between mechanical and role play advice.

So starting bard might make sense from a story perspective, but does this have to be the class? Would the performer background work as well?


One major thing to ask, is what you are doing with your stats? Which of your bard/cleric spells are going to be worth casting on enemies,and which are better off being used as buffs for your own team?


You could do something like Swords Bard/Forge Cleric if you thought you would hit medium levels: Two attacks, heavy armour and keep your casting stats pretty modes and use your spells for support and utility.

Both the cleric and bard have some good bonus action spells (sadly they tend to overlap). Healing word, shield of faith, use of heat metal. Spells like bless, magic weapon/elemental weapon are good buffs for before wading in to combat.

[Katzekerl]

Alright, a few questions that will help us help you.

1: Are you looking for flavour, optimization, or something else for advice?
2: Do you know how high a level you want the character to go?
3: Do you want Bard focus with some Cleric, Cleric Focus with some Bard, or Fairly even split?

I would say that I have a good idea of the flavor and am looking more for optimization advice that would fit. The dm is optimistic of going to level 20 if everyone’s interest holds. I think he would be more of a bard than cleric.


Well there is a difference between mechanical and role play advice.

So starting bard might make sense from a story perspective, but does this have to be the class? Would the performer background work as well?


One major thing to ask, is what you are doing with your stats? Which of your bard/cleric spells are going to be worth casting on enemies,and which are better off being used as buffs for your own team?


You could do something like Swords Bard/Forge Cleric if you thought you would hit medium levels: Two attacks, heavy armour and keep your casting stats pretty modes and use your spells for support and utility.

Both the cleric and bard have some good bonus action spells (sadly they tend to overlap). Healing word, shield of faith, use of heat metal. Spells like bless, magic weapon/elemental weapon are good buffs for before wading in to combat.
Nothing is set in stone and doesn’t need to be until a week from Tuesday. For stats I think that constitution would be most important as a frontline caster, then charisma. I see the hazard of taking to many concentration buff spells and one of the primary things I’m asking about is which are most important. Your description of the mid level build is just what I had in mind and I am figuring the best way to get there.

[Nagog]

If you're looking for advice on what levels to take and where, I'd suggest going Lore bard rather than Swords. While Swords has a good thing going for it early on with extra martial proficiency and the like, most of that you'll already be getting from your Cleric levels. I'd instead delve into Lore Bard, as it opens up more support options with your Bardic Inspiration and gives you access to more spells you otherwise would not have through Magical Secrets. On top of that, the flavor of a Lore Bard may fit better with the bit of restoring the nation to it's former glory, however flavor is exactly that: Flavor. It's manipulable and open to whatever interpretation you see fit.

The second concern I see with this build is how MAD it is. You'll need high Con as you said, to be a front line support and maintaining concentration on those support spells, but you'll also need high Wis and high Cha for those spells, but also high Dex or Str for your martial attacks. The only stat you can safely dump in Int. If you're good with having the bare minimum of your casting stats for multiclassing (or other stats at the minimum), by all means go for it, however I'd also look at going Swords Bard/Divine Soul Sorc. While this would exclude you from the Forge Domain's benefits, it would significantly reduce your MADness and give you proficiency in Con saves from Sorc. This would mean you'd only need to focus on Dex and Cha (I'd go Dex for bonus AC as well). You'd also have access to 3 total spell lists, multiclassing spell slots, metamagic, and a 2d4 bonus to attack rolls or saving throws once a day to help beef up your martial abilities.

If that doesn't suit your fancy, perhaps a Celestial Warlock/Swords Bard would? You could take the UA Eldritch Armor invocation to get the Heavy Armor the Forge Domain would normally grant you, as well as a plethora of other abilities and features a Warlock dip has to offer, include Spell Slot Free healing, Pact Versatilty (Chain for support supplement, Blade for Martial, Tome for utility) depending on what you feel the character needs at that point.

I'd need more information on how you plan to play your character to provide more specific advice, but overall I think the best option would be to fix the MADness issue.

[Katzekerl]

If you're looking for advice on what levels to take and where, I'd suggest going Lore bard rather than Swords. While Swords has a good thing going for it early on with extra martial proficiency and the like, most of that you'll already be getting from your Cleric levels. I'd instead delve into Lore Bard, as it opens up more support options with your Bardic Inspiration and gives you access to more spells you otherwise would not have through Magical Secrets. On top of that, the flavor of a Lore Bard may fit better with the bit of restoring the nation to it's former glory, however flavor is exactly that: Flavor. It's manipulable and open to whatever interpretation you see fit.

The second concern I see with this build is how MAD it is. You'll need high Con as you said, to be a front line support and maintaining concentration on those support spells, but you'll also need high Wis and high Cha for those spells, but also high Dex or Str for your martial attacks. The only stat you can safely dump in Int. If you're good with having the bare minimum of your casting stats for multiclassing (or other stats at the minimum), by all means go for it, however I'd also look at going Swords Bard/Divine Soul Sorc. While this would exclude you from the Forge Domain's benefits, it would significantly reduce your MADness and give you proficiency in Con saves from Sorc. This would mean you'd only need to focus on Dex and Cha (I'd go Dex for bonus AC as well). You'd also have access to 3 total spell lists, multiclassing spell slots, metamagic, and a 2d4 bonus to attack rolls or saving throws once a day to help beef up your martial abilities.

If that doesn't suit your fancy, perhaps a Celestial Warlock/Swords Bard would? You could take the UA Eldritch Armor invocation to get the Heavy Armor the Forge Domain would normally grant you, as well as a plethora of other abilities and features a Warlock dip has to offer, include Spell Slot Free healing, Pact Versatilty (Chain for support supplement, Blade for Martial, Tome for utility) depending on what you feel the character needs at that point.

I'd need more information on how you plan to play your character to provide more specific advice, but overall I think the best option would be to fix the MADness issue.

Ooh, now these are good ideas. The lore bard is one I was still mulling myself, but the warlock and sorcerer I had not considered. Think I’m leaning towards the sword pact warlock. Thank you very much.

[Nagog]

Ooh, now these are good ideas. The lore bard is one I was still mulling myself, but the warlock and sorcerer I had not considered. Think I’m leaning towards the sword pact warlock. Thank you very much.

Happy to help!

[Teaguethebean]

If you still plan on Swords bard I would go a single level of forge cleric then swords bard 6 followed up by either another level of cleric or nothing but bard. You get the flavor of a touch of the divine paired with a well armored melee bard.