Being a CE Farmer.

[Yogibear41]

So my CE Warlock was recently gifted a 10 acre farm for saving the local lord's son's life. I am trying to think of naughty things to do with the place. I would have to pay people to run the place for me, but that should easily be handled-ed by a few gold pieces (or even less) a year. My first idea was to try to use part of the land to grow the plant based ingredients to the drugs listed in BOVD, then try to sell them to the locale populace. Still awaiting to hear back from my DM on if I can find any of the plants in the regions near me to start the production.

Looking for other ideas of things to do with the place that could be profitable, allow me to do naughty things, or preferably both.

[Segev]

Well, farming using undead farmhands would be economical.

But if you want illicit profit, using the land to hide away sinister activity would do better. Warehouse illegal goods for others or yourself in hidden stashes or vaults on the property. Hold parties where salacious vices are sated, inviting the rich and powerful and gathering both favors and blackmail on them.

Start a cult and hold ceremonies in a hidden part of the property, taking donations and gathering power from the rituals.

The value of private property is that its private, if you’re naughty and need to conceal it from the world.

[Vizzerdrix]

Lease it to some serfs (why would YOU pay anyone to use YOUR land?) And throw wild parties with the profits. If you use predatory lending tactics and only lease to those that you know will fail, you can make a "debt farm" where you trick people into owing you for the rest of their lives. Use a high interest rate to keep them locked in a cycle, or offer them an out in exchange for their kids or something.

Ohh! Or you could start a huge garden of monstrous plants.

You could use undead labor to start steeply undercutting other farmers prices at market and ruin their lives.

[Linearblade]

Im playing a LN/LE warlock. I STRONGLY suggest you get a lyre of building if possible. That shiz be broken.i forget what adventure exactly but it’s a forgotten realms one, where there’s a castle in a swamp with a portal to the plane of shadow.

Anyhow, there were all these lonely lizard men there without a leader.

And a warlock can push 25 leadership rather trivially.

Anyhow, the next one in the series (with some intervening adventures) your town is attacked.

We are playing jn a home brew campaig world, so some details are different but basically now, we are seizing the barony we are in, because screw zent lookalikes, screw our barony, and screw everyone.

The priests of Shar killed my brothers and disposed of their bodies. So I’m also now using the failed shadow gate to dispose of them. After cursing them repeatedly of course.


It’s absurdly easy to max out your leadership by 11th level or so, and even qualify for epic leadership lol.

Anyway, why aim small. Your getting large in the level department, why not think “big”, and conquer thy neighbors.


With an exotic portal, you can get even nastier.

Just a thought. With ridiculous leadership, animate dead , and the more absurdly feats / warlock spells, you can commit some major abuse. Especially with sending at will and followers.

My 2 cents.

[RatElemental]

I'd suggest another take on Segev's idea: Build a farm, have peasants pay you for the privilege of living on it and working it for you, use it as a front operation for whatever illegal things you're doing on the side.

[Saint-Just]

Are you familiar with this classic? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?495544-Is-an-Acre-to-much-land-to-give-to-a-party)

Unless you are abusing magic 10 acres would not be enough to feed a single man. It's not a source of income.

So yeah, using it yourself would likely be a better option (though I am surprised that 10 acres would be called a "farm").

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Are you familiar with this classic? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?495544-Is-an-Acre-to-much-land-to-give-to-a-party)

Unless you are abusing magic 10 acres would not be enough to feed a single man. It's not a source of income.

So yeah, using it yourself would likely be a better option (though I am surprised that 10 acres would be called a "farm").

I think you oversell the point a little. The top answer here (https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/125445/size-of-family-owned-medieval-farm) puts the average family in a village in England c.1300 farming (though not owning) 12.5 acres, so it's only slightly below that. Granted, those farmers would also have access to trade and such, but there's no reason our PC wouldn't either. Particularly once one throws magic into the mix, it certainly seems like this could be a means of support... for a peasant lifestyle, that is.

Still, I agree with your overall point. Even with the most optimistic outlook, 10 acres of farmland is "about enough for Dennis the Peasant" - i.e., basically zilch at the presumed quasi-aristocratic level that adventurers operate on. Any money gained from operating it as a farm would be trivial, and ideas like using it to "conquer the neighbours" or something are fairly fantastical.

I'd use it to build a pub or something. Do crime in the backrooms to keep up your CE points.

[Segev]

Yeah, for size reference, if your 10 acre plot of land is a square, it's only 660 feet on a side.

Even my suggestions about hiding clandestine operations on that little land are specious if it's an open field. With trees, it'd be doable, but it's still not a huge area to search. You'd want buildings that have hidden areas.

A 3-story mansion with a basement that had 2000 square feet per floor (so 8000 square feet, the minimum size for a "mansion" these days) has a square footprint of 44 feet on a side, but would likely sprawl a lot more, with courtyards and upper levels that have less usable space per neatly-packed square footprint due to open balconies, so let's put it at 100 feet on a side. That leaves you with, if it's more-or-less centered, 280 feet between the wall of your manor house and the endge of your property. Not tiny, but not nearly as huge as one might picture with "10 acres."

Build a privacy wall 100 feet from the wall of the house, and your "outer grounds" are only 180 feet from that.

I'd build a tiny village on this property, with the above-described manor house and grounds surrounded by cottages and cottage industries, including a pub, a smithy, and stores, as well as galleries for upscale business. Have obvious party grounds inside, and set up some inns outside for upper middle-class guests who pay to come to them, while you house a few select nobles in the manor itself, in a guest wing.

Make a mini-vegas.

[Saint-Just]

I think you oversell the point a little. The top answer here (https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/125445/size-of-family-owned-medieval-farm) puts the average family in a village in England c.1300 farming (though not owning) 12.5 acres, so it's only slightly below that. Granted, those farmers would also have access to trade and such, but there's no reason our PC wouldn't either. Particularly once one throws magic into the mix, it certainly seems like this could be a means of support... for a peasant lifestyle, that is.


Ok, I checked my serious books on agricultural productivity, and yes it should have been possible for a household to barely survive on 10 acres (assuming you are talking about what was considered decent\good soil in England or France, not poor soil). Should have checked first.

Ideas of a hide per household presumably came from what was considered decent life, not just survivable (and also presumably was formed around the turn of the millenium, when agriculture was much less efficient than Late Medieval\Early Renaissance). Still does not change the fact that rent would not amount to much.

[Linearblade]

I think you oversell the point a little. The top answer here (https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/125445/size-of-family-owned-medieval-farm) puts the average family in a village in England c.1300 farming (though not owning) 12.5 acres, so it's only slightly below that. Granted, those farmers would also have access to trade and such, but there's no reason our PC wouldn't either. Particularly once one throws magic into the mix, it certainly seems like this could be a means of support... for a peasant lifestyle, that is.

Still, I agree with your overall point. Even with the most optimistic outlook, 10 acres of farmland is "about enough for Dennis the Peasant" - i.e., basically zilch at the presumed quasi-aristocratic level that adventurers operate on. Any money gained from operating it as a farm would be trivial, and ideas like using it to "conquer the neighbours" or something are fairly fantastical.

I'd use it to build a pub or something. Do crime in the backrooms to keep up your CE points.
Trade ya one useful link for another.
100 pounds of flour is almost nothing when you look at it this way

https://stores.renstore.com/food-and-drink/dietary-requirements-of-a-medieval-peasant

[KillianHawkeye]

So my CE Warlock was recently gifted a 10 acre farm for saving the local lord's son's life..

Did the lord hate is son or something? Or is he exceptionally poor for a nobleman? Does he know you're a bad guy so he gave you a bad gift to insult you?

You should use your goodwill with the lord's son to get into the estate after hours and murder the lord for this insolence! If the son is not the heir, murder anyone else you need to until he is. Now you have the lord's manor at your disposal instead of a paltry patch of dirt.

[SangoProduction]

The most standard shape for an acre is one furlong by one chain, or 660 feet by 66 feet.
Today I found out.

[Falontani]

Get more land. Become a loan shark. Once you have enough people owing you enough money to equate their life, give them an alternative in farming "Exotic Plants". Eventually sell the "Exotic Plants". Btw exotic plants are immobile plant monsters. Use Lords of Madness slavery rules for money

[Yogibear41]

Did the lord hate is son or something? Or is he exceptionally poor for a nobleman? Does he know you're a bad guy so he gave you a bad gift to insult you?

You should use your goodwill with the lord's son to get into the estate after hours and murder the lord for this insolence! If the son is not the heir, murder anyone else you need to until he is. Now you have the lord's manor at your disposal instead of a paltry patch of dirt.


Hes the noble in the village I have been living in for the past 20 years or so. It's not exactly a big place, so he probably is relatively poor for a noble man. I also happen to be the Captain of the guard in the area. I could honestly probably easily murder him, but then I would have to worry about his court wizard (a human sorcerer of unknown level) his son is his only heir atm.
The land I was given is several miles outside the village, near the forest which is full of all kinds of nasty monsters.

Another idea I had was to convert it into a brothel or something like that. Not sure what kinds of buildings or things are already there, haven't gone to see it yet.

I just hit level 6 so my magical options are rather limited atm.

[Bohandas]

How about growing pod people?

[Bartmanhomer]

Do the Texas Chainsaw Massacre (Leatherface Style) :biggrin:

[Yogibear41]

Few things to clarify: the village has approximately 80-100 people in it (its very small) its basically a castle with house built around it. My land is a few miles outside of it, no buildings or anything on it just the land.

[Bohandas]

Just grow normal plants and raise normal animals using the expediants of nitrogenous fertilizers, factory farming, and human sacrifice to the fertility gods.

[Tiktakkat]

I think you oversell the point a little. The top answer here (https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/125445/size-of-family-owned-medieval-farm) puts the average family in a village in England c.1300 farming (though not owning) 12.5 acres, so it's only slightly below that.

That 12.5 acres per family is not a good calculation.

First, those families also worked the land of the local ruler, who would have spent a considerable amount of the food grown on that land feeding the various tenants. So right off add in that land, and you jump to 20.5 acres per family.

Second, that refers to how much land they farmed. While I have that book I am not able to pull it off my shelf and check the reference, but I'm pretty sure those tenants would also have a whole bunch of grazing land for their animals, so that would need to be added in, usually about 3-4 times the amount of farmland.

Of course not all the land would be used every year, which means one-third, possibly one-half, is fallow, reducing the acreage per family.
And there is also land for hay to feed the animals over the winter, so more acreage there.

Then there are more complex issues regarding "average" versus actual distribution, something the Gies' address in the book. Simply put, not all peasants were equal, and a "rich" peasant could own a sizable percentage of the land, while 10-20% could be "cotters", owning a 1-2 room house, a 1/4-acre garden, and hiring out to the local ruler and rich peasants for on a daily basis in order to survive.

And then of course there are the tenant obligations for the land. It may have zero being a real "gift", or it could owe 10-40 days service plowing, sowing, harvesting, and threshing the fields of the lord who granted it, plus other minor bits and pieces.


So what to do with 10 acres?

"Realistically" and directly, not that much. It is probably enough that you could hire a peasant to perform all the tenant obligations for it in exchange for the produce of the land and that's it. That kind of faming is not known as "subsistence level" for no reason.

Indirectly though, and functionally because of it, and if it is that kind of "real" gift, owning the land makes you a freeholder. That comes with rather significant rights, including being eligible for election to various offices in the village the farm is part of, and possibly to county-wide offices. If not right now then perhaps after buying up some more land for failing peasants. Again, no direct profit - they work for food and perform you feudal obligations so you do not have to, but the higher the peasant status, going up to yeoman or sergeant, makes you eligible for higher offices.

What sort of evil could you get up to as the Sheriff, Nottingham style?
What could you leverage that to?

But for direct profit, barring taking a druid cohort who magics the field constantly, you will not see any actual profits until you hit around 100 acres, and no useful profits until you hit 1,000 acres.

As for selling stuff to the locals, 80-100 is nowhere near enough for a profitable customer base, never mind being peasant they cannot afford it. At best you could have a "secret" supply farm for the nearest big city thieves' guild, but 10 acres is not much of a supply, so you would more likely just antagonize a big supplier. Best to go into politics first while buying up 3-4 shires and then going professional.

[Yogibear41]

There are no elections its an empire. I miss spoke I'm captain of the guard not the sheriff. The particular village exports (mostly lumber) to the relatively nearby major city. (I use to live there but got on the wrong side of the imperial law so came out here with a disguise/new identity 20 or so years ago in game).

Leaning toward maybe just saying screw the farm, and having a manor or something built there instead for myself, then maybe have small farm etc. just to support the staff I get to work there for me.

[Vizzerdrix]

There are no elections its an empire. I miss spoke I'm captain of the guard not the sheriff. The particular village exports (mostly lumber) to the relatively nearby major city. (I use to live there but got on the wrong side of the imperial law so came out here with a disguise/new identity 20 or so years ago in game).

Leaning toward maybe just saying screw the farm, and having a manor or something built there instead for myself, then maybe have small farm etc. just to support the staff I get to work there for me.

Ooooh. Lumber. Well with that, you could do an undead powered saw mill, or use the land as a charcoal factory. A set of zombie oxen can power a saw constantly.

Lumber jacking is some rough work too. You could build a house of pleasures to lighten the coin pouches of weary woodsfolk. You could even make a secret temple under it to a god of vice or something to earn some evil karma.

[King of Nowhere]

you could use the land as dumping ground for dangerous waste.
while still farming it and selling its produce, which you'll be very careful to not eat yourself

you could also clarify with the prince that if 10 acres is all his life is worth, then perhaps the next time you won't bother saving it....

[Segev]

WAIT!

You're in a land whose primary occupation is lumber harvesting, and you've got 10 acres that are right next to a forest?

Build a lumber mill! Not only is this a perfectly reasonable and legal source of income, as you can buy raw logs and sell the worked, ready-to-use wood, but all the transport to and from your holding, plus the warehousing space, would let you make an excellent smuggling waystation, and hide plenty of (demi)human(oid) trafficking if you like. Wouldn't work out well for money laundering, sadly, as it's too solid a goods-for-money business. You want service industries for that. Or high-ticket items that can be resold elsewhere easily. Lumber isn't "high ticket" enough. But the smuggling opportunities of hiding things inside piles of wood are ample.

[Tiktakkat]

There are no elections its an empire. I miss spoke I'm captain of the guard not the sheriff. The particular village exports (mostly lumber) to the relatively nearby major city. (I use to live there but got on the wrong side of the imperial law so came out here with a disguise/new identity 20 or so years ago in game).

Leaning toward maybe just saying screw the farm, and having a manor or something built there instead for myself, then maybe have small farm etc. just to support the staff I get to work there for me.

Being an empire in no way precludes having an elected village headman. Or having to be a freeholder in order to qualify being appointed Sheriff. Also, being an imperial Sheriff would be a much higher position than being Captain of the Guard for a minor lord. (How many troops can he even maintain that he needs an actual captain and not just a sergeant in charge?)
For that matter, being an empire in no way precludes having an elected emperor. You just need to meet the qualifications, and owning land is one of the most universal prerequisites to start up the path to power. You did want to wallow in your evil power and all that.

Meanwhile, as others noted, if there are forests all over the place and no other sawmill, 10 acres seems prime for going into the lumber business. Provided the local lord does not mind, the opportunities are endless. Sponsor your own lumberjacks, abusing them mercilessly of course, find forgotten treasure in the forests, abuse the local fey and druids, bring in organized crime to keep your lumberjacks happy.
In fact, there is an entire 3E Paizo module series based on that exact set up, albeit with a more mundane mastermind and not a warlock in charge.

[Bohandas]

WAIT!

You're in a land whose primary occupation is lumber harvesting, and you've got 10 acres that are right next to a forest?

Build a lumber mill! Not only is this a perfectly reasonable and legal source of income, as you can buy raw logs and sell the worked, ready-to-use wood, but all the transport to and from your holding, plus the warehousing space, would let you make an excellent smuggling waystation, and hide plenty of (demi)human(oid) trafficking if you like. Wouldn't work out well for money laundering, sadly, as it's too solid a goods-for-money business. You want service industries for that. Or high-ticket items that can be resold elsewhere easily. Lumber isn't "high ticket" enough. But the smuggling opportunities of hiding things inside piles of wood are ample.

Plus you can do that old bit where you tie a captive to a log that's about to go through the saw

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/NellSawMill_8673.png

[Yogibear41]

Clarification:

The empire is run by a race of CE war deity worshiping humans of a very small island who are so naturally gifted in magic and psionics they go around conquering literally everything over the course of the history of the world, they invade, conquer, and essentially say become my vassal or die. They've lost a few times over the centuries, but usually they regroup and come back to win. Generally speaking as soon as the emperor ever stops the ever war, he loses favor with his deity, and gets assassinated and replaced by generally another family member, often times his son.

The small village I am in, is ruled by a baron, who is ruled by the king of the region/kingdom, who is a vassal to the emperor. There are no elections. Generally speaking if you want a position of power you either take it or are appointed by someone more powerful than you. I am a orcish character so it rather limits how far up the political ladder I can climb.

To be honest this is probably a way over simplified explanation.


The sawmill idea does hold merit, might be something I could look into.