Any ideas on what this mystery book will be?

[Dork_Forge]

So the missus stumbled upon this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0786966912/ref=cm_sw_r_fm_apa_i_PCjfEb49E8SRT

Anyone have any idea what this book would be? I think it's in the right time frame for an adventure but I don't think there's been anything said here so far.

[jaappleton]

It'll be revealed on the 9th. EDIT: Moved to the 13th.

Allegedly the dice set also comes with a map of Waterdeep and NPC handout cards.

That tell me that it isn't a player options book... At least, not exclusively. Perhaps a setting book? I know, I know, MOAR FORGOTTEN REALMS, way to go WOTC, but...

What's odd about this is all the recent UA. Can they actually have the UA tightened up, refined, and ready for release in time for a March release book? Just the printing alone I figure means they need to be done... Within a week or two, don't you think?

[Dork_Forge]

It'll be revealed on the 9th.

Allegedly the dice set also comes with a map of Waterdeep and NPC handout cards.

That tell me that it isn't a player options book... At least, not exclusively. Perhaps a setting book? I know, I know, MOAR FORGOTTEN REALMS, way to go WOTC, but...

What's odd about this is all the recent UA. Can they actually have the UA tightened up, refined, and ready for release in time for a March release book? Just the printing alone I figure means they need to be done... Within a week or two, don't you think?

I don't think this will be a player's option book as much as I want it to be (though maybe the variants?). I think it lines up roughly with the Salt marsh release last year?

Though if you think about it we haven't had a new UA in a while... So it's not out of the *realms* of possibility?

[jaappleton]

I don't think this will be a player's option book as much as I want it to be (though maybe the variants?). I think it lines up roughly with the Salt marsh release last year?

Though if you think about it we haven't had a new UA in a while... So it's not out of the *realms* of possibility?

Here's my full thoughts on the matter. Its... a lot.

1. They've been working on Psionics, that's no secret. Lots of the recent UA stuff have focused on that.

2. They haven't released a full Psion class in the latest playtest material. Not as of this writing, anyway.

3. Would they release Psionics subclasses without a full Psion class?

4. Would they save the full Psion class for a campaign setting book, like Dark Sun? (NOT saying Dark Sun is coming, just that Psionics is integral to it)

5. How long would it take to playtest a full class? Artificer was about two full years... HOWEVER, I believe (this is a slightly... informed opinion) that the Artificer class was shelved during development. It wasn't continuously playtested over two years, it was placed on the back burner a few times while other projects were worked on. So... Could a full class be playtested, start to finish, over a year? This is if the November book is going to be a player option book and not the March book.

6. During the "D&D Presents" panel at PAX Unplugged, Chris Perkins said that the new streaming show would showcase material from the next adventure book which isn't even announced yet... The show is set to debut in 'spring'. March meets that requirement. All the player characters for the show are already set (Bard, Sorc, Cleric and Fighter). So... That leads me to think 'adventure' book, not 'player options' book.

So combine what Perkins said #6 with all this recent UA stuff. It doesn't add together. I think the UA is for a different book, not this March book.

[Spriteless]

Saltmarsh had boats, which is a player's option in certain circumstances. I mean, I used the rules as a basis for the party's airship in Ravnica, and it had it's own character sheet, or at least a map sheet for where they stashed the loot with vehichal stats noted on it.

So I predict it will not have boats nor motorcycles, but something else. Maybe it's a Dark Sun book that starts with player facing options and setting lore, fills the bulk of the book with a campaign full of the most iconic DS adventures (starting with the revolution in Tyr), and end with an appendix of robust survival rules a DM can use to enhance any campaign.

Gosh, it would be everything I want, loaded down with everything they know they can get away with.

[micahaphone]

Here's the official dice set / cards/ case for the book:

https://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/explorers-kit

If you don't want to know what that is, I'll list the contents in the spoiler below. Click through the link, they got a picture of the non-dice goodies included.

Let Laeral Silverhand—Open Lord of Waterdeep, centuries-old archmage, and daughter of the goddess of magic—guide you on your path to adventure.

Includes:

Eleven dice (two d20s, one d12, two d10s, one d8, four d6s, one d4).
Twenty illustrated, double-sided cards detailing Laeral's expert insights on key characters, locations, and lore from across the Forgotten Realms.
A durable, felt-lined box that functions as two dice trays.
Foldout double-sided map of the Sword Coast and the city of Waterdeep.



I don't care too much about official FR stuff, and I take it this Laeral is an important character from previous editions, but I guess I enjoy having lore come from the in-universe perspective of someone, who is not a perfect narrator. Like how Volo isn't always the most accurate, but we can trust him in general as a monsterologist

[Brookshw]

It'll be revealed on the 9th.

Allegedly the dice set also comes with a map of Waterdeep and NPC handout cards.

That tell me that it isn't a player options book... At least, not exclusively. Perhaps a setting book? I know, I know, MOAR FORGOTTEN REALMS, way to go WOTC, but...

What's odd about this is all the recent UA. Can they actually have the UA tightened up, refined, and ready for release in time for a March release book? Just the printing alone I figure means they need to be done... Within a week or two, don't you think?

One thing that irks me about FR books is that they so often contain player options that prompt sales when the setting content isn't what's actually selling the content. This falsely inflates the apparent interest in the setting at the expense of other setting. Sure, plenty of people like FR, but I for one would love to see just a new book about almost any other setting. (ib4 they just released Eberron).

[jaappleton]

Talking with someone, and he brought up a solid idea:

Dungeon of the Mad Mage, the follow up to Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, did not sell well.

And that's OK. The dungeon crawl thing isn't everyones cup of tea.

What if its another, different follow up to Dragon Heist?

[JackPhoenix]

One thing that irks me about FR books is that they so often contain player options that prompt sales when the setting content isn't what's actually selling the content. This falsely inflates the apparent interest in the setting at the expense of other setting. Sure, plenty of people like FR, but I for one would love to see just a new book about almost any other setting. (ib4 they just released Eberron).

While true, you could argue the same about GGtR and Eberron. I think there's plenty of people who are not interested in Eberron itself, but want to get Artificer.

[Sparky McDibben]

Talking with someone, and he brought up a solid idea:

Dungeon of the Mad Mage, the follow up to Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, did not sell well.

And that's OK. The dungeon crawl thing isn't everyones cup of tea.

What if its another, different follow up to Dragon Heist?

One of the things I love about WotC's adventure books (at least most of them) is they contain tables and DM inspiration for how to run games in a certain milieu. Saltmarsh, for example, had that whole appendix (well worth the filler, imo) that told you "Here's how to run D&D on the high seas." Ravnica did it with political intrigue. DotMM is the 5e megadungeon. Dragon Heist...didn't really do anything? I mean, even the Acq Inc book is full of stuff at the front that tells you how to run a business-themed campaign. Dragon Heist was just a Waterdeep sourcebook, it felt like.

So if they're going to do a follow up to Dragon-Heist, what would you like to see them include?

[Brookshw]

While true, you could argue the same about GGtR and Eberron. I think there's plenty of people who are not interested in Eberron itself, but want to get Artificer.

Absolutely true. As far as print sales go, unless they offer half versions breaking out player option vs. setting you can get misleading info no matter the setting, though if history is precedent the volume of FR content released over the edition creates a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Further compounding the issue is the setting purge of WoTC when they acquired from TSR, and some of the issues that have cropped up regarding the previous poster boy's content (Greyhawk).

Not sure what you mean by GGtR.

[Sparky McDibben]

some of the issues that have cropped up regarding the previous poster boy's content (Greyhawk).

Not sure what you mean by GGtR.

I think he's referring to the backgrounds, spore druid and order cleric. What issues have come up with Greyhawk? I haven't seen anything for that in years.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Kinda weird they're just announcing a name. It means they think the name of the book itself will be interesting to players.

They could be dead wrong, of course, but chances are good that means they're name-dropping something that old fans will recognize. The map centering around the Sword Coast and Laeral's name getting revealed already point to yet another *something* there.

...

If I see the name 'Elminster' I might strangle someone.

...

Oh god, that's fairly likely. I feel sick.

[Brookshw]

I think he's referring to the backgrounds, spore druid and order cleric. What issues have come up with Greyhawk? I haven't seen anything for that in years.

Nothing recent, I'm thinking of the IP issues that cropped up regarding characters etc. Still, sort of thing that can sour a company on a product line.

[Sparky McDibben]

Nothing recent, I'm thinking of the IP issues that cropped up regarding characters etc. Still, sort of thing that can sour a company on a product line.

Ah, OK. I was worried they had been sued for something really bad. Thanks!

[jaappleton]

UPDATE:

Reveal will be the 13th, not the 9th.

[Flashkannon]

Kinda weird they're just announcing a name. It means they think the name of the book itself will be interesting to players.

They could be dead wrong, of course, but chances are good that means they're name-dropping something that old fans will recognize. The map centering around the Sword Coast and Laeral's name getting revealed already point to yet another *something* there.

...

If I see the name 'Elminster' I might strangle someone.

...

Oh god, that's fairly likely. I feel sick.

Elminster --> Dove Falconhand --> Drizz't Do'Urden

Oh, ha... right, I think I am gonna feel sick, too.:smalleek:

Unless they give us a Drizz't statblock and I can murder himhave him die in my campaign. That would be actually pretty neato.:belkar:

[Sparky McDibben]

Unless they give us a Drizz't statblock and I can murder himhave him die in my campaign. That would be actually pretty neato.:belkar:

I would love to use Drizz't as a way to set up my villain. Like, "Oh, thank heavens, Drizz't Do'Urden is here to save us!"

Three rounds later:
"Drizz't Do'Urden has been reduced to something gruesomely similar to raspberry jam. Who's next?"

[Flashkannon]

I would love to use Drizz't as a way to set up my villain. Like, "Oh, thank heavens, Drizz't Do'Urden is here to save us!"

Three rounds later:
"Drizz't Do'Urden has been reduced to something gruesomely similar to raspberry jam. Who's next?"

You're speakin' my language. I've read 2 and 2/3rd Drizz't books but they were filled with enough florid praise for his sword hand that I yearn to put into numbers which I can nonmetaphorically crunch.

[Daithi]

I remember seeing something about the Amethyst Dragon on a previous release of a special dice set, and at that time I recall the rumor that something more indepth on crystal dragons was going to be released. Plus, the Dragon Heist touches on dragons, and it does include some lore stuff about keeping dragons out of Waterdeep, but it doesn't really focus on them. So, maybe an add on to Dragon Heist that actually involves dragons.

Keep in mind that I'm just recalling vague rumors and have no actual knowledge. Although, they did release the dice that did have the stats for a 5e Amethyst Dragon.

[Arkhios]

I don't know what it is, and frankly I don't even care, whether it's something Forgotten Realms related or not. But I'm really intrigued by the secrecy!

Whatever it is, you can probably guess how disappointed I was to find out the revelation was delayed until monday :(

[Millstone85]

Whatever it is, you can probably guess how disappointed I was to find out the revelation was delayed until monday :(Is it? That is disappointing.

[jaappleton]

For those interested:

Chris Perkins played Drizz't during one of the Acq Inc games. So Twinkle and Icingdeath have been statted up by the head of D&D if you want to try to convince your DM to give you the weapons >_>

I'd thought Drizz't himself was statted up, I think he's in Out of the Abyss, but I don't want to buy the book to find out. Perhaps someone that has the book can weigh in?

[Arkhios]

For those interested:

Chris Perkins played Drizz't during one of the Acq Inc games. So Twinkle and Icingdeath have been statted up by the head of D&D if you want to try to convince your DM to give you the weapons >_>

I'd thought Drizz't himself was statted up, I think he's in Out of the Abyss, but I don't want to buy the book to find out. Perhaps someone that has the book can weigh in?

A minor nitpick, there's no apostrophe in the name Drizzt. There's one between Do and Urden though.. Although, If you want more apostrophes, you can use his full name: Drizzt Daermon N'a'shezbaernon. :smallbiggrin:

*Fades into shadows, devoid of any shame of having read - and enjoyed - almost every book involving Drizzt Do'Urden.*

[Monster Manuel]

So if they're going to do a follow up to Dragon-Heist, what would you like to see them include?

Follow up more fully on the "urban adventure" angle. Crunchy city rules. Backgrounds, feats, items, spells that tie into living in a BigCity.

I don't think this is what the mystery book is, and I don't think this concept of "city rules" works apart from a setting that accommodates the idea of a "Big City". Honestly, I think Ravnica is probably a better spiritual sequel to Dragon Heist in that regard than Mad Mage was. But in terms of a follow-up to dragon heist, that's what I would be looking for.

[micahaphone]

The drow poster child is not in Out of the Abyss, just some references to him and his friends, like Bruenor Battlehammer is in it.

I never read the books so I have no animosity to the coolest of cool dudes.

[Theodoxus]

I'd thought Drizzt himself was statted up, I think he's in Out of the Abyss, but I don't want to buy the book to find out. Perhaps someone that has the book can weigh in?

Scanning the pdf brought up no stats for Drizzt, though he is mentioned a few times in the backstories.

[Brookshw]

So Twinkle and Icingdeath have been statted up by the head of D&D if you want to try to convince your DM to give you the weapons >_>


I seem to recall they were already statted up as a defending weapon and a frost brand. Did those get cut from 5e?

[Spriteless]

Hmm. It could be the next Eberron book. But it has already been revealed (http://keith-baker.com/exploring-eberron-the-cover/).

[Dork_Forge]

Hmm. It could be the next Eberron book. But it has already been revealed (http://keith-baker.com/exploring-eberron-the-cover/).

That's DM's Guild content not official WotC, I like Keith's lore, but I won't be touching an Eberron book that doesn't go through Wizard's.

[Contrast]

It would appear to be more stuff for Matt Mercers Critical Role setting (Wildemount specifically).

[nickl_2000]

Yup,

Explorer's Guide to Wildemount (D&D Campaign Setting and Adventure Book) (Dungeons & Dragons) Hardcover – March 17, 2020
by Wizards RPG Team (Author), Matthew Mercer (Contributor)



Although this part is the most interesting to me.

"Uncover a trove of options usable in any D&D game, featuring subclasses, spells, magic items, monsters, and more, rooted in the adventures of Exandria—such as Vestiges of Divergence and the possibility manipulating magic of Dunamancy."

I wouldn't mind seeing what they have for more subclasses, spells, and beasts

[Millstone85]

Do you think they will put the same work in this EGtW as they did for GGtR and RftLW?

If so, I am a little hyped already.

[Mr. Crowbar]

Oof. I’m not into Critical Role and the oversaturation of the fandom has turned me against it. The only way I’d be getting this book is if it offers some really good player content, otherwise I might just wait and hope it gets rehashed into something like Xanathar’s Guide to Everything Else.

[Sparky McDibben]

Yup,

Explorer's Guide to Wildemount (D&D Campaign Setting and Adventure Book) (Dungeons & Dragons) Hardcover – March 17, 2020
by Wizards RPG Team (Author), Matthew Mercer (Contributor)



Although this part is the most interesting to me.

"Uncover a trove of options usable in any D&D game, featuring subclasses, spells, magic items, monsters, and more, rooted in the adventures of Exandria—such as Vestiges of Divergence and the possibility manipulating magic of Dunamancy."

I wouldn't mind seeing what they have for more subclasses, spells, and beasts

Yay! I'm interested at this, given that Mr. Mercer's already posted the stats for the Vestiges online. Are these new Vestiges? Hopefully it's not recycled from his Tal'Dorei sourcebook with James Haeck. Although that had some interesting stuff in it, I'd be more excited for something new.

I think it's funny that for years people kept kvetching about the lack of campaign settings, and now Wizard's has finally caught up!

I hope this has the gameable content, including random tables, adventure hooks, and character options, present in Ravnica, combined with the "What lives here?" detail in Eberron. But of the two of those, I'd prefer the Ravnican approach.

[nickl_2000]

Yay! I'm interested at this, given that Mr. Mercer's already posted the stats for the Vestiges online. Are these new Vestiges? Hopefully it's not recycled from his Tal'Dorei sourcebook with James Haeck. Although that had some interesting stuff in it, I'd be more excited for something new.

I think it's funny that for years people kept kvetching about the lack of campaign settings, and now Wizard's has finally caught up!

I hope this has the gameable content, including random tables, adventure hooks, and character options, present in Ravnica, combined with the "What lives here?" detail in Eberron. But of the two of those, I'd prefer the Ravnican approach.

I’m glad to see anything coming out, although I tend to get less out of campaign settings others since I don’t DM for our group. That’s generally why I get most excited about player options.

[micahaphone]

wait,why are they releasing a waterdeep dice set at the same time as a CR book?

[Luccan]

Oof. I’m not into Critical Role and the oversaturation of the fandom has turned me against it. The only way I’d be getting this book is if it offers some really good player content, otherwise I might just wait and hope it gets rehashed into something like Xanathar’s Guide to Everything Else.

I do like CR and don't have any more interest in this than I would an FR book. Exandria feels pretty kitchen-sink, if I'm being honest. And while I know Matt's players have tested some of his content and he's also released some of it online, I'm kind of surprised WotC is releasing a book that the community at large has not playtested any part of.

[J-H]

Yup,

Explorer's Guide to Wildemount (D&D Campaign Setting and Adventure Book) (Dungeons & Dragons) Hardcover – March 17, 2020
by Wizards RPG Team (Author), Matthew Mercer (Contributor)
"Uncover a trove of options usable in any D&D game, featuring subclasses, spells, magic items, monsters, and more, rooted in the adventures of Exandria—such as Vestiges of Divergence and the possibility manipulating magic of Dunamancy."

I wouldn't mind seeing what they have for more subclasses, spells, and beasts

I've heard of Critical Role, but when I tried to watch it, I had to stop in 5 minutes because of all the giggling and annoying interruptions whenever someone was talking. I've heard of his blood stalker something-something, but none of the other things mentioned in this ring a bell.
Hard pass.

[Arkhios]

Well, that came from the bushes... 😳

...at the very least, Forgotten Realms Hate Club should be relieved.

Can't say I'm too excited about this, myself, although I'm definitely intrigued about the promise of new subclasses and what they might include.

When I first read that the new setting is involved with Critical Role, frustrating memories came rushing back from quite a few old threads discussing how the series (and arguably Matthew Mercer himself) had a bad influence on new players, who would constantly start childish tantrums over their DM's rulings that contradict with Mercer's rulings (and how the DM's should make the same rulings as Mercer).

I'll have to try and set aside my prejudice and give the book a fair treatment once it's released. After all, it's not like Matt Mercer was releasing the book alone, and it might actually have good stuff in it.

[nickl_2000]

I've heard of Critical Role, but when I tried to watch it, I had to stop in 5 minutes because of all the giggling and annoying interruptions whenever someone was talking. I've heard of his blood stalker something-something, but none of the other things mentioned in this ring a bell.
Hard pass.

I’ve literally never listened to it, and likely never will. It will live to me like GGtR, something that offers a little extra and is worth a read.

[Throne12]

So Amazon has put up the title of the new book and it is Explorer's guide to wildemount.

[Millstone85]

This is already being discussed here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?606028-Any-ideas-on-what-this-mystery-book-will-be).

[Spriteless]

Well, I've only watched like 2 episodes of Vox Machina, but hey, gunslingers and exploding guns you've pushed to far seem like fun for those who've used up the fun of wild-magic sorcerers.

Those are in the other setting book already though, aren't they?

[Arkhios]

Well, I've only watched like 2 episodes of Vox Machina, but hey, gunslingers and exploding guns you've pushed to far seem like fun for those who've used up the fun of wild-magic sorcerers.

Those are in the other setting book already though, aren't they?

FWIW, misfire chance to explode a gun and the gunslinger class are hardly unique things in a d20 system. Pathfinder did it before Mercer did. Though he might have done a good job in converting the concept to 5th edition, I find it very hard to give Mercer credit for inventing it.

[Contrast]

Well, I've only watched like 2 episodes of Vox Machina, but hey, gunslingers and exploding guns you've pushed to far seem like fun for those who've used up the fun of wild-magic sorcerers.

Those are in the other setting book already though, aren't they?

The gunslinger wasn't actually in the previous book, though it is available on DMs Guild and D&D beyond I believe. Ditto to his Blood Hunter class.

The previous book had a cleric Blood domain, barbarian Juggernaut, sorceror Runechild origin and Cobalt Soul monk.

[8wGremlin]

https://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Release-Announced-January/dp/0786966912/?fbclid=IwAR3JQnMjAd2O7Wwc-Abk8qIVrBpiPGylOkBtICtoAR81p-Eai9k41kkJom8

A war brews on a continent that has withstood more than its fair share of conflict. The Dwendalian Empire and the Kryn Dynasty are carving up the lands around them, and only the greatest heroes would dare stand between them. Somewhere in the far corners of this war-torn landscape are secrets that could end this conflict and usher in a new age of peace—or burn the world to a cinder.

Create a band of heroes and embark on a journey across the continent of Wildemount, the setting for Campaign 2 of the hit Dungeons & Dragons series Critical Role. Within this book, you’ll find new character options, a heroic chronicle to help you craft your character’s backstory, four different starting adventures, and everything a Dungeon Master needs to breathe life into a Wildemount-based D&D campaign…

· Delve through the first Dungeons & Dragons book to let players experience the game as played within the world of Critical Role, the world’s most popular livestreaming D&D show.

· Uncover a trove of options usable in any D&D game, featuring subclasses, spells, magic items, monsters, and more, rooted in the adventures of Exandria—such as Vestiges of Divergence and the possibility manipulating magic of Dunamancy.

· Start a Dungeons & Dragons campaign in any of Wildemount’s regions using a variety of introductory adventures, dozens of regional plot seeds, and the heroic chronicle system—a way to create character backstories rooted in Wildemount.

Explore every corner of Wildemount and discover mysteries revealed for the first time by Critical Role Dungeon Master, Matthew Mercer.

[Luccan]

The gunslinger wasn't actually in the previous book, though it is available on DMs Guild and D&D beyond I believe. Ditto to his Blood Hunter class.

The previous book had a cleric Blood domain, barbarian Juggernaut, sorceror Runechild origin and Cobalt Soul monk.

This book might have some of those, I know he has updated Cobalt Soul on the show a couple times in the current campaign. I wonder, if this is to be a first party book, if WotC will allow Gunslinger. They don't seem to want to make guns more than optional (I realize they'd still technically be optional, but a dedicated subclass is a lot more than a variant rule casually tossed in at the end of the DMG)

[Spriteless]

Mage did it before Pathfinder did. AD&D did it before Mage did. Monopoly did before AD&D did. Go to jail for getting 3 more than turns in a row by rolling doubles.

For that matter, Runequest and Fate had degrees of success before Pathfinder 2 did. There is nothing new under the sun.

Except when there is, and I decide soul-meld is a silly sounding word, the logic the writers go through to get soul-based powers without stealing souls is convoluted, and did no one think that if a power is made by catching or reflecting the light souls cast (https://www.dmsguild.com/product/295475/Complete-Prism-Pack-BUNDLE) that makes meld the wrong technical term? Therefore it sucks. Clearly they should have workshopped it until it wasn't new anymore if they wanted young pricks like I was to like it. A lesson 5th ed has taken to heart?

But I heard the earliest Vox Machina was in Pathfinder to begin with. 4th and 5th ed D&D avoided most risky abilities, because losing is unfun. Pathfinder kept it all along, because losing is most memorable. I respect Pathfinder's priorities in this matter more, even if I can't deal with starting a character of greater than 1st level.

[Luccan]

I've decided I'm cautiously optimistic about the book: I may not have a great deal of interest in playing in the setting, but I can always pull some of the crunch options from it if I like. That being said, it seems strange that


Given the Mighty Nein are poised to significantly impact relations between the continent's two big nations, they chose to release the setting now. There's a good chance much of what is in the book lore-wise won't be accurate in a year.

[Spriteless]

Sounds like a feature, from Mercer's viewpoint.

Or, you can just run the game from a starting point and change the world in a different way.

[SaintRidley]

Ugh. Eyeroll.

[BarneyBent]

I've heard of Critical Role, but when I tried to watch it, I had to stop in 5 minutes because of all the giggling and annoying interruptions whenever someone was talking. I've heard of his blood stalker something-something, but none of the other things mentioned in this ring a bell.
Hard pass.

Did you start with campaign 1? I struggled to get into it as well, only lasted a few episodes, but then I eventually started listening to campaign 2 and it’s much more polished. I’ve really enjoyed it, and now I’m more familiar with the cast I’ll probably go back and give campaign 1 another crack.

[jaappleton]

Did you start with campaign 1? I struggled to get into it as well, only lasted a few episodes, but then I eventually started listening to campaign 2 and it’s much more polished. I’ve really enjoyed it, and now I’m more familiar with the cast I’ll probably go back and give campaign 1 another crack.

Watch the Briarwood Arc of Campaign 1. That’s the best of it.

I stopped watching CR because the length of each session. I just don’t have the time.

But even for people that want NOTHING TO DO WITH CRITICAL ROLE, even if you play in a home brewed setting... Your lore was inspiration from somewhere. LOTR, Arthurian Legend, whatever. New lore presents a new opportunity to adapt something from.

And SUBCLASSES. I hope it’s more than the 2 we got in Ravnica, though.

[Zhorn]

But even for people that want NOTHING TO DO WITH CRITICAL ROLE, even if you play in a home brewed setting... Your lore was inspiration from somewhere. LOTR, Arthurian Legend, whatever. New lore presents a new opportunity to adapt something from.
^ Very much this.

I can fully understand and respect that everyone is going to have different preferences and tastes, but at the very least you should be willing to recognise that good ideas can be found in anything, even settings you are not fans of. Everything is fuel for idea mining.

[micahaphone]

Can confirm that Campaign 2 of CR is much easier to jump into. I started with that. My friend recommended I watch at least one episode on video, to help link the actor's normal voice to the character voice. Since then I've been listening to the podcast while commuting or doing chores. Ocassionally I'll miss something because I can't see the battle mat or whatever, but it's just as good as watching it 95% of the time. I sometimes zone out a tad during combat anyway.


Wildemount does seem like a bit of a kitchen sink setting, but I guess I just learned you could say the same thing about Eberron. I do like the governments Matt has created, and the different system of gods. And thank god for drow that aren't underground.

As far as his class/subclass design, I've been hit or miss on his stuff. Gunslinger meh, Blood domain cleric is cool but doesn't follow the cleric format, juggernaut barb seems too narrowly focused, Cobalt Soul monk is great, and the sigil sorc seems alright, but maybe I'm down on that one too much because I have no desire to play that subclass. Blood Hunter as a class certainly seems decent, lets people make the kind of edgy ranger ish thing that people enjoy, like a Witcher.

[BarneyBent]

Watch the Briarwood Arc of Campaign 1. That’s the best of it.

I stopped watching CR because the length of each session. I just don’t have the time.

But even for people that want NOTHING TO DO WITH CRITICAL ROLE, even if you play in a home brewed setting... Your lore was inspiration from somewhere. LOTR, Arthurian Legend, whatever. New lore presents a new opportunity to adapt something from.

And SUBCLASSES. I hope it’s more than the 2 we got in Ravnica, though.

Oh yeah, I don’t have time to watch at all. I just listen to the podcasts. Catch 30 minutes to and from work each day. Miss a little bit of cast interactions and stuff, sure, but there’s no way I could watch it.

[Millstone85]

https://prodimage.images-bn.com/pimages/9780786966912_p0_v2_s600x595.jpg

From Barnes & Noble (https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/dungeons-dragons-march-release-book-wizards-rpg-team/1135967901).

[Aett_Thorn]

I like that they’re putting out more campaign settings, I just wish that they’d give us some good 5e updates to other historical settings before doing fan service to a podcast (even one that I tend to like and listen to every week). Dark Sun, Planescape, Spelljammer, Dragonlance. All of these great, different settings that could be worked on that I’d much prefer.

[jaappleton]

I like that they’re putting out more campaign settings, I just wish that they’d give us some good 5e updates to other historical settings before doing fan service to a podcast (even one that I tend to like and listen to every week). Dark Sun, Planescape, Spelljammer, Dragonlance. All of these great, different settings that could be worked on that I’d much prefer.

I 100% understand what you’re saying. But I’m not positive I agree with it.

D&D’s popularity is higher now than EVER. And that’s in no small part to Critical Role, the first successfully streamed D&D show.

So all those people that started playing with 5E, whether brought in through CR or not; They have not played Dragonlance, Spelljammer, Planescape, etc.

How strong is the desire for those players to see old setting that they aren’t familiar with?

WOTC is a business. Let’s be honest here: Matt Mercer was going to release this book with the help of WOTC or not. Whether Green Ronin, or Kobold Press, or whatever. This book was going to come out regardless.

And smartly, WOTC decided to get in on it. Because it’s in demand and is going to sell well.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I 100% understand what you’re saying. But I’m not positive I agree with it.

D&D’s popularity is higher now than EVER. And that’s in no small part to Critical Role, the first successfully streamed D&D show.

So all those people that started playing with 5E, whether brought in through CR or not; They have not played Dragonlance, Spelljammer, Planescape, etc.

How strong is the desire for those players to see old setting that they aren’t familiar with?

WOTC is a business. Let’s be honest here: Matt Mercer was going to release this book with the help of WOTC or not. Whether Green Ronin, or Kobold Press, or whatever. This book was going to come out regardless.

And smartly, WOTC decided to get in on it. Because it’s in demand and is going to sell well.

A lot of the people getting into D&D wasn't around for those settings, so it's hard to say that people wpuldn't eat it up.

A lot of 5e's popularity is directly due to how accessible it is. Compared to **every** edition before it, 5e came about in a time where connectivity is like water in an ocean.

Was they going to bring this out? Sure.

Was it the campaign settings keeping people away from older editions of D&D, no way of saying that.

[Sparky McDibben]

I 100% understand what you’re saying. But I’m not positive I agree with it.

D&D’s popularity is higher now than EVER. And that’s in no small part to Critical Role, the first successfully streamed D&D show.

So all those people that started playing with 5E, whether brought in through CR or not; They have not played Dragonlance, Spelljammer, Planescape, etc.

How strong is the desire for those players to see old setting that they aren’t familiar with?

WOTC is a business. Let’s be honest here: Matt Mercer was going to release this book with the help of WOTC or not. Whether Green Ronin, or Kobold Press, or whatever. This book was going to come out regardless.

And smartly, WOTC decided to get in on it. Because it’s in demand and is going to sell well.

Agree with this. I would rather see something new, rather than just "My childhood, but rebranded and with better graphics!" I leave that to the Disney corporation.

[Brookshw]

Hm. Well, I know very little about Critical Role and have only seen maybe the first 6 episodes. From what I gather, it's a group of professionals putting on a show by playing D&D, and I guess this is the homebrew content they've used for it. Therefor, I'm skeptical that content developed and used in that context has been thoroughly or carefully playtested. From what I've heard, some content like Mercer's gunslinger, can be very powerful.

Does anyone have any opinions or knowledge about how well the CR content is balanced, or was playtested?

[Sigreid]

I'll have to know more about what is in it to know if it will have vale to me or be a pass like Acquiditions Inc.

[Misterwhisper]

This will be a hard pass for me, I care absolutely nothing about Critical Role and Matt can't balance content at all, so nope.

[Arkhios]

This will be a hard pass for me, I care absolutely nothing about Critical Role and Matt can't balance content at all, so nope.

Do note, that Matt has been referred to as a contributor, essentially just like Keith Baker was for Eberron, while the book's design team likely includes many if not all of the hard-boiled professional D&D Designers from WotC's current staff, as well.

I can understand the sentiment, though, as I'm also habitually opposed to Critical Role and Matthew Mercer's grasp on game balance, but I'll at least try to set those biased feelings aside and see what's in it before I make any final judgments on whether the material is usable or not.

[jaappleton]

Do note, that Matt has been referred to as a contributor, essentially just like Keith Baker was for Eberron, while the book's design team likely includes many if not all of the hard-boiled professional D&D Designers from WotC's current staff, as well.

I can understand the sentiment, though, as I'm also habitually opposed to Critical Role and Matthew Mercer's grasp on game balance, but I'll at least try to set those biased feelings aside and see what's in it before I make any final judgments on whether the material is usable or not.

I’ll say this about Mercer:

Great storyteller. On his balance...? Eh, look, there were absolutely some growing pains. His game was originally Pathfinder, so there were some adjustments.

If you saw the very first incarnation of the Blood Hunter, before it was even called that? You know what I’m talking about, because it was... YEESH. That was something right out of D&D Wiki. It was that rough.

But like any designer, you get feedback and you apply it. And that’s what he did. He’s better now than in the early days of Critical Role, that’s for sure.

[Spiritchaser]

I DM in a homebrew world, but I very often slip in published material where it fits. My choice to buy or not will, at least partly be dependent on how universally compatible this might be.

As for player options? Provided it’s balanced adequately, more is better in my mind. It doesn’t have to be perfect, just good enough.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

This will be a hard pass for me, I care absolutely nothing about Critical Role and Matt can't balance content at all, so nope.

To be fair, WotC ain't all that great on balance or putting out a finished system (looking at you Monster CR, feats, and classes).






Do note, that Matt has been referred to as a contributor, essentially just like Keith Baker was for Eberron, while the book's design team likely includes many if not all of the hard-boiled professional D&D Designers from WotC's current staff, as well.

I can understand the sentiment, though, as I'm also habitually opposed to Critical Role and Matthew Mercer's grasp on game balance, but I'll at least try to set those biased feelings aside and see what's in it before I make any final judgments on whether the material is usable or not.

I'm voting with my wallet and not buying this. I have 0 interest in critical role and don't want to send the wrong message.

[Sigreid]

I'm voting with my wallet and not buying this. I have 0 interest in critical role and don't want to send the wrong message.

If it weren't for this forum I'd have had no idea it was a critical role book.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

If it weren't for this forum I'd have had no idea it was a critical role book.

I looked it up, which I do before buying stuff, and I'm good.

I couldn't even sit through one episode of CR.

[Millstone85]

I never watched CR but I never played MtG either, and I love GGtR.

[Arkhios]

To be fair, WotC ain't all that great on balance or putting out a finished system (looking at you Monster CR, feats, and classes).


I'm voting with my wallet and not buying this. I have 0 interest in critical role and don't want to send the wrong message.

I'm not certain if I'll buy it either. But if I do, it's not very likely to happen immediately after release. I'll wait and see what it holds, and if possible, borrow it from someone else first.

[Contrast]

Some more details (https://critrole.com/hype-explorers-guide-to-wildemount-our-next-campaign-guide-is-available-for-pre-order-right-now/):


304 pages of material that will help you create your own dynamic campaign set within Exandria’s mystery-laden continent of Wildemount
Four starting adventures, set in four different regions of Wildemount, which are full of terrifying discoveries and dangerous secrets. These adventures have been designed to take your adventuring party from level one to three
Three brand new subclasses: Echo Knight, Chronurgist, and Graviturgist
A guide to dunamancy magic, including new dunimantic spells!
23 brand new creatures for your heroes to encounter (if they’re lucky…or not, depending)
Descriptions for brand new magic items and Wildemount’s legendary Vestiges of Divergence
A guide to the calamitous history of Wildemount
An extensive breakdown of the Wildemount pantheon, featuring idols and demigods that exist outside of the pantheon
A breakdown of the major and minor factions found in Wildemount and important figures within each faction
A gazetteer replete with locations familiar to Critical Role fans (alongside curious locales only hinted at in bygone lore)


I may be wrong but I don't believe there's been anything previously released about the subclasses so who knows what the specifics are.

Edit - Interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb9iC9VCB4M&feature=youtu.be) with Mercer.

Edit 2 - Reddit thread (https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/eo5mj7/with_the_explorers_guide_to_wildemount/) by Mercer, including comments on people wanting other settings or griping about quality of his previous homebrew:

Hey there! Longtime lurker, situational commenter!

Well now, it certainly looks like the cat’s out of the bag (and seemed to sneak out a LITTLE early, hehe)! I can’t express just how excited and honored I am to have been given the opportunity to bring my world to you all via the Explorer’s Guide to Wildemount. D&D has been such an influential element of my life, of who I am, and to have contributed to it in this way is beyond words.

I’ve spent the better part of 1.5 years working on this project, along with some incredible contributors, to make this something we could all be extremely proud of. I set out to create this book not as a tome specifically for fans of Critical Role, but as a love letter to the D&D community as a whole. Those who follow our adventures will find many familiar and enjoyable elements that tie into what they’ve experienced within our campaign. However, I want this book to not only be a vibrant, unique setting for non-critter players and Dungeon Masters young and old, experienced or new, but also a resource of inspiration for DMs to pull from regardless of what setting they are running their game in. I’ve done my very best to make it a dynamic, breathing world full of deep lore, detailed factions and societies, a sprawling gazetteer, heaps of plot hooks, and numerous mechanical options/items/monsters to perhaps introduce into your own sessions, or draw inspiration from to cobble together your own variations. I wanted this to be a book for any D&D player, regardless of their knowledge of (or appreciation of, for that matter) Critical Role. I made this for ALL of you.

I am also well-aware of how much negativity can permeate these spaces regarding myself and the games we play, and that’s ok! One could never expect our form of storytelling and gaming to be everyone’s cup of tea, and it could very well be that this just isn’t the book for you. I don’t begrudge you that, and I only hope one day we get a chance to roll some dice at a convention and swap stories about our love of the game. I know for some folks this isn't necessarily what they were hoping for the announcement to be, and for that I'm sorry.

As a person excited and clamoring for new settings to be brought into the D&D multiverse, I also understand the frustrations from some that this isn’t one of the “classics”. Believe you me, I’m one of the those who is ever-shouting “I want my Planescape/Dark Sun”, and said so loudly… multiple times while in the WotC offices. Know that my setting doesn’t eliminate, delay, or consume any such plans they may have for any future-such projects! I’m not stepping on such wonderful legacy properties, these same ones that inspired me growing up. This is just the new-kid stepping into that area and hoping one of the older kids will sit and have lunch with them. ;) If Wizards has any plans to release any of their much-demanded settings, they’ll come whether or not Wildemount showed up.

I also wanted to comment on the occasionally-invoked negative opinions on my homebrew designs I’ve seen here… and they aren’t wrong! I don’t have the lengthy design history and experience that many of you within this community do have. Outside of small, home-game stuff I messed with through the 2000’s, my journey on the path of public homebrew began as a reaction to online community demand and throwing out my inexperienced ideas in a very public space. Much of my early homebrew was myself learning as I went (as all of us begin), only with a large portion of the internet screaming at me for my mistakes and lack of knowledge. Even my Tal’Dorei Guide homebrew was rushed due to demands being made of me, and I continue to learn so many lessons since. The occasional unwarranted intensity aside, there is much appreciated constructive criticism I’ve received over the years (from reddit included) that has helped me grow and improve. Anyway, what I mention all this for is to express my thanks for all the wonderful feedback, the chances to learn from all of you as time has gone on, and the many elements of this book reflect that improvement as I took those lessons and collaborated with the official WotC team to make this as good as it could be.

Anyway, that’s enough rambling from an insecure nerd. I’m extremely proud of what we’ve done with this book. I hope you give it a shot and enjoy it. I really do. If you choose to pass on it, that’s totally cool and am just happy we find joy in the same pastime. Either way, be kind to each other, and keep on forging amazing stories together. <3

-Mercer

[jjordan]

I'm a fan of the program but not as big a fan as a lot of the people I see online. I had already decided to get the guide to the first campaign (but haven't yet) and will probably purchase this. My children and wife are the big consumers of published content while I prefer to make my own. I'm actually more interested in the Tal'Dorei book because Mercer was an author rather than a contributor. So it's more likely to reflect his thinking. The new Wildemount book lists him as a contributor so it's likely the Wizards team took his general notes and cleaned them up and pretty much wrote the book without him.

So far as issues of balance go, I'm unconcerned. I'm not an Adventurers League guy and have always felt free to modify settings/rules as needed.

I think it's smart of Wizards to take advantage of this. There's a significant amount of money in the Critical Role community (witness the animated series Kickstarter as well as several charity drives and the consistent merchandising performance) that can be expected to be spent on this. Some of that money currently belongs to people who watch the show and don't actively play D&D. Selling them this book is the first step towards selling them a lot of other books. It's also going to drive people to D&D Beyond where some people were complaining that the Tal'Dorei material wasn't available (because it's not official Wizards content). Honestly, it feels a lot like a repetition of the acquisition of the Forgotten Realms from Ed Greenwood.

Last, I think this book is going to drive some DMs crazy. It's going to be more fodder for folks that want to play a CR game and don't realize they can't duplicate that table.

[Jophiel]

But even for people that want NOTHING TO DO WITH CRITICAL ROLE, even if you play in a home brewed setting... Your lore was inspiration from somewhere. LOTR, Arthurian Legend, whatever. New lore presents a new opportunity to adapt something from.
This is true, however there's a near infinite number of things to grab lore/ideas from if that's my goal. It doesn't even have to be 5e -- I have grabbed Pathfinder bundles (via Humble Bundle) for less than half the price of this book that give me combined thousands of pages of reading for ideas if that's my goal. If I'm shelling out for a 5e product, I want it to be something I'm actually going to mechanically use.

[Nagog]

One thing that irks me about FR books is that they so often contain player options that prompt sales when the setting content isn't what's actually selling the content. This falsely inflates the apparent interest in the setting at the expense of other setting. Sure, plenty of people like FR, but I for one would love to see just a new book about almost any other setting. (ib4 they just released Eberron).


While true, you could argue the same about GGtR and Eberron. I think there's plenty of people who are not interested in Eberron itself, but want to get Artificer.

This is vastly true. I was just at a game shop myself and found that this game shop finally had Descent into Avernus, but even after a cursory look at it I decided I didn't want it. All of my games exist in a homebrew setting, so the only reason I want for D&D books is for content I can use there. I already have the MM, Volo's Guide, and the Player Handbook, and I have plans to get the DM Guide and Xanathars eventually, but tbh nothing else really stands out to me as something I want to drop $40 on. Perhaps if I can get more info on the latest Eberron book, that may go on the list of books to get.
However in this case it's been revealed to be a "Campaign Setting and Adventure Book", so it'll go on the pile of things I learn secondhand from.

[Haydensan]

I am unsure of what your post is trying to achieve.

Have you got a question about the book or its contents?

Or is this just an advert for the adventure book?

[8wGremlin]

When I posted it. I hadn’t seen a thread where it was talked about or had the link to the book or the ad.

Just ignore it as other threads now have them.
Was trying to be helpful.

[nickl_2000]

Some more details (https://critrole.com/hype-explorers-guide-to-wildemount-our-next-campaign-guide-is-available-for-pre-order-right-now/):


304 pages of material that will help you create your own dynamic campaign set within Exandria’s mystery-laden continent of Wildemount
Four starting adventures, set in four different regions of Wildemount, which are full of terrifying discoveries and dangerous secrets. These adventures have been designed to take your adventuring party from level one to three
Three brand new subclasses: Echo Knight, Chronurgist, and Graviturgist
A guide to dunamancy magic, including new dunimantic spells!
23 brand new creatures for your heroes to encounter (if they’re lucky…or not, depending)
Descriptions for brand new magic items and Wildemount’s legendary Vestiges of Divergence
A guide to the calamitous history of Wildemount
An extensive breakdown of the Wildemount pantheon, featuring idols and demigods that exist outside of the pantheon
A breakdown of the major and minor factions found in Wildemount and important figures within each faction
A gazetteer replete with locations familiar to Critical Role fans (alongside curious locales only hinted at in bygone lore)




Sounds like this is going to be a book that I buy parts of it on DNDBeyond to grab the spells and subclasses and nothing else. Thanks for the extra information.

[jaappleton]

To everyone upset it is a Critical Role book and not your favorite setting, please read this:

https://twitter.com/Roleplayers_TV/status/1216758453101682688?s=20

[Daphne]

This will be a hard pass for me, I care absolutely nothing about Critical Role and Matt can't balance content at all, so nope.


Do note, that Matt has been referred to as a contributor, essentially just like Keith Baker was for Eberron, while the book's design team likely includes many if not all of the hard-boiled professional D&D Designers from WotC's current staff, as well.


To everyone upset it is a Critical Role book and not your favorite setting, please read this.

https://twitter.com/Roleplayers_TV/status/1216758453101682688?s=20

Okay, so I'll have to agree with Misterwhisper then.

[Sparky McDibben]

Look, I get that some people just hate Critical Role, and some people hate the influence it has on the hobby. My inner contrarian feels those people, even if I think they're being a bit too performative about it.

But at the same time, even if you've never watched an episode, this book probably still has something for you. If you think there is nothing you can learn from a product, that just sounds sad to me. You're diminishing not just yourself but your game, by refusing to add extra tools to your DM's toolbox. If you think those tools are poorly balanced, then tinker with them, or just keep them in the back of your head. You never know when something might click for you. Even if they're wildly unbalanced, how cool would it be for a villain to control freaking time?

I get that some folks believe this is drawing resources away from [Insert Favorite Setting]. At this point, if you want Dark Sun, you might have to do Dark Sun yourself, y'all. We're getting something new. Let's freaking celebrate that, instead of whining about getting "a Matt Mercer book."

[Jophiel]

To everyone upset it is a Critical Role book and not your favorite setting, please read this:

https://twitter.com/Roleplayers_TV/status/1216758453101682688?s=20
I haven't seen anyone here yelling about how this is stopping anything else or otherwise mad about it, just a bunch of disinterested shrugs.


But at the same time, even if you've never watched an episode, this book probably still has something for you. If you think there is nothing you can learn from a product, that just sounds sad to me.
It's not a question of "Does this book contain anything at all I can glean from it and use?", it's a question of "Does this book provide [MSRP] worth of value in what I will glean and use?"

If your goal is just to get some ideas or concepts, there's probably far better value for your money out there. Right now, fifteen bucks will get you (https://www.humblebundle.com/books/lord-of-the-rings-5e-books?hmb_source=navbar&hmb_medium=product_tile&hmb_campaign=tile_index_3) twelve books/modules for the 5e Middle Earth conversion, for instance, and for sheer volume that's almost certainly going to have more ideas/concepts than you'll get from this one book. The primary reason to buy a new WotC book (to me) is because I actually want the book, not because I want one or two things the book might provide that are sort of interesting. Obviously other people may feel differently.

[Misterwhisper]

To everyone upset it is a Critical Role book and not your favorite setting, please read this:

https://twitter.com/Roleplayers_TV/status/1216758453101682688?s=20

All this says to me is that the guys at WOTC are probably having almost nothing to do with it and letting Matt do almost all of it.

So pointless content with little oversight, just like the Ravnica book.

[Dork_Forge]

All this says to me is that the guys at WOTC are probably having almost nothing to do with it and letting Matt do almost all of it.

So pointless content with little oversight, just like the Ravnica book.

Maybe worse, the Ravnica content at least saw UAs.

[SpikeFightwicky]

I know of CR (haven't watched it yet), but is this book basically an official WotC release of a non-WotC homebrew? Kind of weird (maybe? I don't even know anymore).

[ProsecutorGodot]

I know of CR (haven't watched it yet), but is this book basically an official WotC release of a non-WotC homebrew? Kind of weird (maybe? I don't even know anymore).

Exploration into a new setting rather than an older existing one is apparently a bad thing if I'm reading correctly into much of these comments, which is a shame. Not liking it is one thing, but I'm seeing damn near vilified not because of its content but because its critical role and all the youngins at my table keep expecting me to be Matthew Mercer and ask them "how do you want to do this" feh.

This wouldn't even be the first time they've explored DND stream content in an official book, we have Acquisitions Incorporated as precedence.

Personally, as an avid Critical Role fan, I will be the first in line telling people that this book is SCAG/GGtR levels of "not worth it" if the only meaningful thing I get out of it is spells and subclasses. I'm going to hold off on a critical opinion until I've been able to observe it for myself.

[Jophiel]

I know of CR (haven't watched it yet), but is this book basically an official WotC release of a non-WotC homebrew? Kind of weird (maybe? I don't even know anymore).
Jaappleton put it best that WotC knew someone was going to cash in on this campaign setting and figured it might as well be them. That's all the explanation you need (and I don't mean WotC is wrong or bad for it, either -- bringing popular 5e products to market is what they're supposed to be doing)

[jjordan]

I know of CR (haven't watched it yet), but is this book basically an official WotC release of a non-WotC homebrew? Kind of weird (maybe? I don't even know anymore).Pretty much. Can you imagine having your setting published by WotC? Pretty darn cool.

[Brookshw]

To everyone upset it is a Critical Role book and not your favorite setting, please read this:

https://twitter.com/Roleplayers_TV/status/1216758453101682688?s=20

A fair post by Mercer and I respect it. Simultaneously, and drawing on a decade's experience with publishers and media, knowing how budgets for such work and can affect production queues and schedules, I don't believe his "no affect" comment about other settings.

[Arkhios]

To be honest, who among us has the right to say who deserves their setting to be made official, after all. No one. If anyone, it's WotC. Not us, the player community. In a way, there probably wouldn't be "us" without WotC and/or D&D.

Even I have to give Mercer credit for Critical Role having become a notable phenomena. I don't have to be a fan to be able to respect his success.

[nickl_2000]

There is a Rick and Morty source book...

This book deserves to exist

[Chaosmancer]

Wow, I'm kind of disappointed by how negative everything is on this thread.

I mean, I've played with Gunslingers and Blood Hunters, they aren't very much more powerful than the more powerful options in the PHB. I mean, whatever Hexlock Paladin Sorcerer multiclass is popular right now could easily trump them I'm sure.

In fact, I'd argue they are perfectly fine balance wise. Perfect? Not by a long shot, but perfectly serviceable.


But the bigger thing is how much disgust and apathy is being directed towards CR and the release of this book. I'm only in my late 20's, but is this how it was for Keith Baker? Was Eberron villified for being too new, too different, and not from an established designer at TSR? I guarantee it was for Gygax and Arneson, making this weird little game that most people thought was stupid and deviated from the "real game" of wargaming and re-enacting the battles of World War I and II.

The thing that no one can deny is that people love the cast and game of Critical Role. They have hundreds of thousands of fans in a game that only has a few million fans. People connect with it, and seeing it get support from WoTC should be a good thing.

Why?

Because somewhere out there is another game designer, someone writing a setting or designing a character class that you are going to fall in love with. That would be perfect for your game, your aesthetic, and your campaign. But if this sort of reaction is what we are going to give back to people actually adding new content and ideas to DnD, then we are going to make it that much harder for that person to put their work out there. That much harder for it to get people's attention. That much more unlikely for WoTC to take the risk and support their work.

Someone pointed out to me, this is the first new officially supported setting in years. They thought since Eberron, I know Ravinica came out, but every other setting I'm pretty sure has been third-party, not directly sold by WoTC.

At the very least we should be happy to see new ideas and new settings getting brought up, reminding people that anyone can do this stuff. Not be frustrated that a guy who doesn't DM like you do and has some friends you don't like is getting more attention.

[Azuresun]

I get that some folks believe this is drawing resources away from [Insert Favorite Setting]. At this point, if you want Dark Sun, you might have to do Dark Sun yourself, y'all. We're getting something new. Let's freaking celebrate that, instead of whining about getting "a Matt Mercer book."

One thing that I find myself wondering when people ask for an old setting back is--which ones actually need a 5e book? Dark Sun and Spelljammer, probably, because they would require races and mechanics (spelljammer ships, psionics, defiling, mul / half-giant / thri-keen PC's, etc) which don't exist in the game right now.

But if I have a complete Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms setting book from an earlier edition.....what else do I really need to run a game there? The 3e FRCS is one of my favourite books ever, and I'm not seeing much there that I couldn't translate to 5e with a minimum of effort (Shadow Weave and Spellfire, maybe?) Yes, they'd be nice, but it's not like I can't run games there until WotC gets round to updating them.

[Jophiel]

At the very least we should be happy to see new ideas and new settings getting brought up, reminding people that anyone can do this stuff. Not be frustrated that a guy who doesn't DM like you do and has some friends you don't like is getting more attention.
I haven't really seen anyone imply that this is the case. People are apathetic because this just doesn't interest them, not due to some resentment or envy.

Other settings seem to have a thematic elevator pitch: "High magic fantasy", "Gothic horror", "Political intrigue", "Post-medieval techno-fantasy", etc. This seems to be "The setting from Critical Role" which only sounds intriguing if you care about Critical Role. I'm not unhappy or frustrated, I just don't see any reason to care beyond a nebulous "but maybe it'll have something you like" which isn't an incentive to get excited much less to spend money.

[Safety Sword]

I don't think anyone has done as much to bring new people into D&D in the online space than Critical Role has. More people playing D&D gives us all more chances to get whatever content we want.

We all benefit from the popularity boom D&D is experiencing and I think it's a just reward for Matt to get his setting published with the D&D logo attached to it. Good on him and his crew for carving their piece out.

All this being said, I'm not sure I'm going to buy it. Like a lot of posters here, I only buy books that have the things I'm interested in using in my games. I'm not sure I'm all that interested in using Matt's setting as a play space for my groups, many of whom are either 20 year veterans of D&D and have their preferences locked in or brand new to the game and only playing their first campaign with no attachments to particular settings.

Buy it or don't buy it. I'm sure Wizards have done the math and there is enough interest by fans of CR that they'll make their profit and that allows them to make the next book that I might really want. Either way, I truly believe that Wizards do know what they are doing with their product here and we'll be getting good stuff coming down the pipeline at regular intervals.

[Sigreid]

I haven't really seen anyone imply that this is the case. People are apathetic because this just doesn't interest them, not due to some resentment or envy.

Other settings seem to have a thematic elevator pitch: "High magic fantasy", "Gothic horror", "Political intrigue", "Post-medieval techno-fantasy", etc. This seems to be "The setting from Critical Role" which only sounds intriguing if you care about Critical Role. I'm not unhappy or frustrated, I just don't see any reason to care beyond a nebulous "but maybe it'll have something you like" which isn't an incentive to get excited much less to spend money.

To be fair to the setting, I checked out the wiki for it and it seems to be set along the theme of nature vs the corruption and greed of civilization. So he has a theme beyond "just like youtube". Even one that may appeal to environmentally engaged players.

I still need to know more to know if it has a place on my shelf.

[Monster Manuel]

Two thoughts on this that I have no idea how they will work out.

First of all, I think Mercer pulled from a wide range of sources for his setting, and I think not all of it was from a WotC published setting. I thought (but could be wrong) that some of his cosmology was lifted from Pathfinder, since the campaign started there. I wonder if there will be things that are "canon" in the stream, but can't be used in the book?

On a similar note, what we have here is a campaign setting where half of it was published by another publisher. The Tal'dorei campaign setting he put out before is in the same world as Wildemount, just a continent on the other side of the world. Will there be any cross-referencing? Or does Green Ronin own the content relating to that side of the world, and won't be willing to share? Is this gonna be Sony and Marvel fighting over Spider Man all over again?

[BarneyBent]

A fair post by Mercer and I respect it. Simultaneously, and drawing on a decade's experience with publishers and media, knowing how budgets for such work and can affect production queues and schedules, I don't believe his "no affect" comment about other settings.

You don’t think it’s likely WOTC have separate pools of money for “core” books versus the popular media content? I’d guess this came out of the same general allotment as Rick and Morty, Stranger Things, Acquisitions Incorporated, etc.

One pool for building and expanding upon core playing group, another pool for tying into specific fandoms to get new players in.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Two thoughts on this that I have no idea how they will work out.

First of all, I think Mercer pulled from a wide range of sources for his setting, and I think not all of it was from a WotC published setting. I thought (but could be wrong) that some of his cosmology was lifted from Pathfinder, since the campaign started there. I wonder if there will be things that are "canon" in the stream, but can't be used in the book?

On a similar note, what we have here is a campaign setting where half of it was published by another publisher. The Tal'dorei campaign setting he put out before is in the same world as Wildemount, just a continent on the other side of the world. Will there be any cross-referencing? Or does Green Ronin own the content relating to that side of the world, and won't be willing to share? Is this gonna be Sony and Marvel fighting over Spider Man all over again?

I would hope that Green Ronin wouldn't be part of something like that, it doesn't really benefit them to do so. I'm not entirely sure that they really "own" any of the content either, though that's just me guessing and not something I'm familiar with as part of being a publisher.

The small preview we have of the contents does have some (very minimal) potential overlap referencing the Vestiges of Divergence which are present in both books, we'll probably see some overlap in mentions of factions and characters since there are characters from the first campaign who are from and/or have visited Wildemount since the first campaign ended.

On the topic of deities, Saranrae is the only one I'm aware of that is directly ported from Pathfinder. She is never called Saranrae in the first campaign guide, only "The Everlight" which was her formal title among her followers, in fact all deities are referred to by a title in the first guide. Even though I'd expect they could now print these most of these deities under their DNDTM names, I don't expect that to change for Wildemount.

[jaappleton]

I would hope that Green Ronin wouldn't be part of something like that, it doesn't really benefit them to do so. I'm not entirely sure that they really "own" any of the content either, though that's just me guessing and not something I'm familiar with as part of being a publisher.

The small preview we have of the contents does have some (very minimal) potential overlap referencing the Vestiges of Divergence which are present in both books, we'll probably see some overlap in mentions of factions and characters since there are characters from the first campaign who are from and/or have visited Wildemount since the first campaign ended.

On the topic of deities, Saranrae is the only one I'm aware of that is directly ported from Pathfinder. She is never called Saranrae in the first campaign guide, only "The Everlight" which was her formal title among her followers, in fact all deities are referred to by a title in the first guide. Even though I'd expect they could now print these most of these deities under their DNDTM names, I don't expect that to change for Wildemount.

Ok so something just happened on Twitter related to this.

Awhile back, Matt Mercer published official (since it’s his subclass) errata on his Cobalt Soul Monastic Tradition. He released it via his Dropbox, and it’s the whole subclass, for free. Not just the change log, so to speak.

I found that extremely interesting at the time, from the “Wait who owns the rights to this....?” sort of perspective.

And tonight someone asked Mercer if he would also bring the Tal’Dorei campaign book subclasses to this book. He said he might release those (and others!) on the DMs Guild soon.

.....HOW?! Like, from a licensing standpoint, how? I don’t know the legal agreement, obviously, but it’s VERY interesting to say the least.

——

Side Note: Jeremy Crawford JUST confirmed he personally vetted all the subclasses, magic items, etc for balance purposes.

[Luccan]

Two thoughts on this that I have no idea how they will work out.

First of all, I think Mercer pulled from a wide range of sources for his setting, and I think not all of it was from a WotC published setting. I thought (but could be wrong) that some of his cosmology was lifted from Pathfinder, since the campaign started there. I wonder if there will be things that are "canon" in the stream, but can't be used in the book?

On a similar note, what we have here is a campaign setting where half of it was published by another publisher. The Tal'dorei campaign setting he put out before is in the same world as Wildemount, just a continent on the other side of the world. Will there be any cross-referencing? Or does Green Ronin own the content relating to that side of the world, and won't be willing to share? Is this gonna be Sony and Marvel fighting over Spider Man all over again?

I know one of the gods is Pathfinder (not sure which, haven't played Pathfinder more than once), but I believe when I skimmed the Tal'dorei book I saw that they used the non-copyrighted nicknames for the gods rather than their actual names from D&D/Pathfinder canon. That might be enough, but I know he also changed each of them at least a bit.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Side Note: Jeremy Crawford JUST confirmed he personally vetted all the subclasses, magic items, etc for balance purposes.

Surely that will please everyone who says Matthew has no idea about game balance, no one has ever complained about Jeremy's take on balance, not once!

I'm happy to hear that at least, Matt had a problem with keeping his mechanical wordings consistent, the first few iterations of the Blood Hunter featured this quirk prominently. That's such a minor thing though.

From a purely objective point of view, we can all rejoice that completely unvetted homebrew isn't seeing official print, although I'm sure not very many people expected that in the first place.

[Chaosmancer]

I haven't really seen anyone imply that this is the case. People are apathetic because this just doesn't interest them, not due to some resentment or envy.

Other settings seem to have a thematic elevator pitch: "High magic fantasy", "Gothic horror", "Political intrigue", "Post-medieval techno-fantasy", etc. This seems to be "The setting from Critical Role" which only sounds intriguing if you care about Critical Role. I'm not unhappy or frustrated, I just don't see any reason to care beyond a nebulous "but maybe it'll have something you like" which isn't an incentive to get excited much less to spend money.

You might be right, but... it is incredibly frustrating to read his official announcement and then a thread like this.

If you haven't read it, can you guess what the majority of the announcement post is? An apology.

In his announcement for his setting being officially adopted by the game he loves, a setting that has spawned comic books, animated shows, two source books, and was so well known in acting circles that a platform sought him out to ask him to do it live for an audience, he felt the need to apologize for not being a good enough game designer. And to reassure people that his product being successful was not a sign that settings from decades ago won't get attention.

I can't even imagine another medium where that would happen. Where a creator who has been wildly successful would feel the need to apologize for not being good enough.



As for the tone of the setting, I'll admit, despite having a copy of the Tal'Dorie setting, I'm not sure if the world has a single tone.

I do know they are High Fantasy, and they have a long and interesting history involving the deities and how they can effect the world. I know there is a lot of political intrigue in different sections, and if the very little bit I know about Wildemount and season two holds true, this book will highlight that, he had a lot of elements involving the rise of civilization and progress versus the old ways and the sacred sites of nature. In fact, one of the things I remember being really cool is that the Goddess of Civilization and the Goddess of Nature seem to be in a romantic if tumultuous relationship. I think I remember from the first book a section of the map which was a lava field essentially created by one of the biggest villains from the first season.

We also know he tied the Feywild into some of the festivals, and if I actually read the lore section cover to cover I bet I could find a lot more.

It is a deep fantasy setting, with a multitude of hooks and many organizations and groups to play off of.

[Brookshw]

I would hope that Green Ronin wouldn't be part of something like that, it doesn't really benefit them to do so. I'm not entirely sure that they really "own" any of the content either, though that's just me guessing and not something I'm familiar with as part of being a publisher.


Without seeing the contracts and licenses who knows. That said, I've never known a publisher who released a title that they didn't at least have an exclusive license for, though some 3rd party content may have been licenses separetely from the title itself. When the book's available we might see 3rd party credits. Ah well, I'd be curious to see the details but after a certain point even well informed speculation is fruitless.


Surely that will please everyone who says Matthew has no idea about game balance, no one has ever complained about Jeremy's take on balance, not once!

Sounds a little like damage control.

Edit

You don’t think it’s likely WOTC have separate pools of money for “core” books versus the popular media content? I’d guess this came out of the same general allotment as Rick and Morty, Stranger Things, Acquisitions Incorporated, etc.

One pool for building and expanding upon core playing group, another pool for tying into specific fandoms to get new players in.
No, I don't. The overall budget for a product line ( i.e., D&D) is usually set in advance then sub-allocated further. Money in one budget would only exist at the expense of another budget for the line. Normally editors go through a process of justifying market opportunity, assessing competition, projected ROI and growth etc, before individual products are then given the green light. Admittedly I'm an IP attorney and don't get heavily involved in the budget process normally.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Sounds a little like damage control.

Unnecessary damage control in my opinion, there isn't a name in the entire world you could attribute it to that would assuage people's fears of it being "official homebrew".

It could have been entirely written by Mike Mearls, proofread by Jeremy Crawford and triple checked by the ghost of Gary Gygax and people would still take issue with it because Matthew Mercer's name is on top. I find it an unreasonable stance.

It's not like we don't have plenty of examples of official nonsense. SCAG is a shining example of it, we've got examples on both ends of the spectrum of what are often considered the worst design (PDK) in terms of being weak and the worst design (Booming Blade, GFB) in terms of being too strong. Throw in Healing Spirit, which is officially been called out as a mistake and I don't see how a handful of optional classes having less (not none) of the design teams input in them as a major problem.

This is mostly me ranting though it bothers me very personally to see someone's hard work belittled because its their hard work when the quality of the work has yet to be determined. I could be dead wrong on this, these spells and subclasses could be horrendously overpowered but right now we don't know.

Please don't think this is directed at anyone here, I try to avoid Twitter for this reason but made the mistake of skimming through replies to all of these announcements and it's kind of got me into a mood.

[BarneyBent]

No, I don't. The overall budget for a product line ( i.e., D&D) is usually set in advance then sub-allocated further. Money in one budget would only exist at the expense of another budget for the line. Normally editors go through a process of justifying market opportunity, assessing competition, projected ROI and growth etc, before individual products are then given the green light. Admittedly I'm an IP attorney and don't get heavily involved in the budget process normally.

Sorry, maybe I didn’t explain it well.

It seems likely that a certain amount of budget is allocated to “side project books” that draw upon popular media. Yes, this money would detract from the core budget, obviously.

I’m suggesting that WOTC make the strategic decision to fund a certain amount of “side” books that focus on bringing other properties into the official D&D world. Acquisitions Incorporated, Rick and Morty, Stranger Things, etc are all examples. That money is probably already allocated in a general sense - the question is would it be CR or would it be another property? In that sense, it being CR hasn’t competed with the “core” properties.

You may have an issue with the approach of bringing other properties into the WOTC fold, sure - but that’s an issue with the whole program of work, and this book in particular (if this is indeed how they have structured things) would have had no bearing on past budgetary allocations.

Of course, this is all speculation, but given the number of other “pop media” releases, it seems likely that this is part of a broader targeted approach, and that these resources were already committed to this sort of thing long ago. In which case, no, this book has not delayed other publications. At least not any more than Playstation interfered with Sony sound system products.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I haven't really seen anyone imply that this is the case. People are apathetic because this just doesn't interest them, not due to some resentment or envy.

Other settings seem to have a thematic elevator pitch: "High magic fantasy", "Gothic horror", "Political intrigue", "Post-medieval techno-fantasy", etc. This seems to be "The setting from Critical Role" which only sounds intriguing if you care about Critical Role. I'm not unhappy or frustrated, I just don't see any reason to care beyond a nebulous "but maybe it'll have something you like" which isn't an incentive to get excited much less to spend money.

It seems people who are fans of this are trying to make those of us that are apathetic out to be "the bad guys" by using hyperbole.

Factious: Obviously, if you aren't saying anything positive, you must be a hater and need to go to jelly-camp, cause you jelly.

[ProsecutorGodot]

It seems people who are fans of this are trying to make those of us that are apathetic out to be "the bad guys" by using hyperbole.

Factious: Obviously, if you aren't saying anything positive, you must be a hater and need to go to jelly-camp, cause you jelly.

There are those who are expressing disinterest, which is well within their right to do so and perfectly acceptable, and those who are attacking the very idea that this book exists or worse, denouncing it because of the names attached to it irrespective of its contents.

Not liking it is one thing, not liking it and encouraging others that they also shouldn't is another.

[Chaosmancer]

Unnecessary damage control in my opinion, there isn't a name in the entire world you could attribute it to that would assuage people's fears of it being "official homebrew".

It could have been entirely written by Mike Mearls, proofread by Jeremy Crawford and triple checked by the ghost of Gary Gygax and people would still take issue with it because Matthew Mercer's name is on top. I find it an unreasonable stance.

It's not like we don't have plenty of examples of official nonsense. SCAG is a shining example of it, we've got examples on both ends of the spectrum of what are often considered the worst design (PDK) in terms of being weak and the worst design (Booming Blade, GFB) in terms of being too strong. Throw in Healing Spirit, which is officially been called out as a mistake and I don't see how a handful of optional classes having less (not none) of the design teams input in them as a major problem.

This is mostly me ranting though it bothers me very personally to see someone's hard work belittled because its their hard work when the quality of the work has yet to be determined. I could be dead wrong on this, these spells and subclasses could be horrendously overpowered but right now we don't know.

Please don't think this is directed at anyone here, I try to avoid Twitter for this reason but made the mistake of skimming through replies to all of these announcements and it's kind of got me into a mood.


Yeah, this is sort of where my head is at too.

I know when I homebrew mechanical stuff, I don't focus on it for more than a few weeks, maybe I ask for some extra opinions, but I'm making it for my own games so I just need to be happy with it personally.

But when I homebrew setting material, I agonize over it. I try and apply theories of worldbuilding from multiple different sources, and I work desperately to avoid as many pitfalls as I can. Because worldbuilding and writing is something I care about a lot.

Mercer has been working on his setting for years out in the public eye. Even his mechanical stuff, like the Witch Hunter which was originally made for Vin Diesel to play in a half hour one-shot four years ago. That evolved to the Blood Hunter, which I found a new version of the mechanics for just a few months ago. He's solicited feedback and refined the class he made for a single one-shot that ran 1/8 of the normal length of a session over years.

And he isn't exactly the only one who has put a ton of thought and effort into their worlds, mechanics, and everything else. But the quality and care they put in their work doesn't seem to matter for a select group. If it doesn't have the stamp, it is trash. If the person made one bad thing a few years ago, all future work is trash.

It is just.... frustrating. And it makes it easy to see things in a negative light, because you see so many individuals who mean it in a negative light, that it is hard to separate the two.

[Mikaleus]

I’m actually quite excited to try out the new wizard subclasses.

They both seem great fit for a wizard character I have for the campaign I’m in (my Druid has retired ) and it’ll come down to which I prefer more.

I might even give the echo knight a go - sounds super interesting and I’m yet to play a fighter.

[Daithi]

I don't know anything about Matthew Mercer or Critical Role, but I'm looking forward to seeing the new book. New setting, new character classes, new magic, etc. I'm cool with all that. If there is a balance problem or something then I'm sure the community will deal with it when/if it happens. So, I'm not prejudging. I'm actually just looking forward to the book.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I don't have anything particular against another setting. New and different content is almost always a good thing. And hey, a lot of old settings started out as homebrew campaigns; Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, etc. Maybe they could even have another contest for a new setting somewhere down the line. Just not this year.

I honestly rather not rehash most of the older stuff anyway. Eberron has a lot of moving parts and is newer by far, so it probably needed it, but something like Greyhawk or Dragonlance? I don't think is too hard to convert them to 5e if you have the older materials. Time consuming, sure, if you go insanely in depth with it. Same for Plansescape really and we do have some stuff we can use in Mordenkainen's for that. Dark Sun was also an interesting setting, but I think if we get a working Psionics class (or whatever they're going to call it) it wouldn't be too terribly hard either. Spelljammer? Is there really that much demand for it? Never really cared too much for it myself, but Wizards is free to make an updated Star Frontiers game :) J/K, I'm fine playing the old stuff.

It makes sense in a way that they've updated Eberron and are now bringing in stuff like Acquisitions Inc. and this setting book because they have Keith Baker, Matt Mercer and the like also releasing other materials for their worlds and they don't have to service those settings as much as they would have to with some of the older settings, which tbh, seems to consist of letting you know where in those worlds you can put their released Adventures.



My only gripe is it does seem like there's been a lot of Adventure and Setting books here in the recent past since we've gotten a good, crunchy player book like Xanathar's Guide. Here's to hoping they take a bunch of player stuff from those newer Settings and Adventure books, polish the recently released UA stuff, and add a good helping of new player driven options in a book this year. Going on 6 years in, a lot of new players added to the game, I think they can open up the engine a little bit and give us some more fuel to keep the ride going... YMMV of course.

Spelljammer hasn't been touched since 2e and is one of the more unique settings to date. I think rehashing it would notnonly bring in a more diverse crowd but also show people new ways to think about D&D.

You could adopt the rules for spelljammer into naval settings in other games.

[Azuresun]

It seems people who are fans of this are trying to make those of us that are apathetic out to be "the bad guys" by using hyperbole.

Factious: Obviously, if you aren't saying anything positive, you must be a hater and need to go to jelly-camp, cause you jelly.

Yeah, I'm sure there's no really vicious, nasty and unwarranted trolling going on anywhere, on any platform. And nobody could possibly be referring to that when they refer to haters.

[HappyDaze]

I'll put this into the "Maybe I'll pick it up if Amazon has it for 40% off of cover price and I'm running short of reading materials but otherwise no, thanks" bin.

EDIT: Currently Amazon has it at 31% off of cover price. Not tempting to me yet.

[dehro]

I'm a fan of CR. I'm not a fan of the gunslinger (for thematic reasons, the same way I don't like monks or psionics).
I truly believe Matt Mercer is a decent person who works hard at his setting, his dm'ing in general and at paying it forward when he can. For those reasons alone I would consider buying the book even though I'm well aware that there's a billion dollar company behind it.
I might not even be particularly interested in playing in that setting, but I'm sure I'll find spells, monsters and other things of interest.
I believe that a fair amount of the criticism comes from people who thrive on giving criticism on principle and look hard until they find something to criticise, which I'm sure there is. There are also a fair number of people who have a degree of online following who are a bit jealous of the success CR has had, whereas their projects, written or online don't have as much traction. I wouldn't be surprised if their fans were amongst the loudest detractors of Mercer... Even though maybe those people are in fact not doing anything to actively stir up controversy.

More content means more hooks for people to notice and become interested in the product. I trust Mercer to have put in his best effort, and I trust that the gaming community will poke holes in it wherever they can, in the process of minmaxing.That's what happens with every new dnd issue and there are plenty of people who love this aspect of the game too.
The vitriol is unwarranted and should just be ignored.
Wizard, over the last years, has made consistent effort towards their online community and CR is the peak success of visibility they've had over time. That they would reward Mercer this way is only natural, and a smart business move. Hasbro is forever searching for online community managers, marketing and event personnel. They know what they're doing.
I don't think that the effort gone into producing it has taken much energy away from the other product development.
I have the feeling that if only the CR community bought the book, they'd still make the investment worthwhile.
A net win for WotC. As for us players.. like always, we'll take what we like from the setting and the book, and drop the rest.

[Brookshw]

This is mostly me ranting though it bothers me very personally to see someone's hard work belittled because its their hard work when the quality of the work has yet to be determined. I could be dead wrong on this, these spells and subclasses could be horrendously overpowered but right now we don't know.


I don't know if anyone's belittling hard work. Mercer's clearly a guy who has a lot of passion for the game, and has invested a lot of energy into his content. But now we're talking about monetizing that content so market factors regarding the quality of it are valid concerns to be discussed. If I made a bad set of, I don't know, headphones, then I can't argue "but I worked really hard on them" if people identify an issue with them and say they're not interested.

Your certainly correct there have been balance issues in official content, but those are also called out just as they are here.



Of course, this is all speculation, but given the number of other “pop media” releases, it seems likely that this is part of a broader targeted approach, and that these resources were already committed to this sort of thing long ago. In which case, no, this book has not delayed other publications. At least not any more than Playstation interfered with Sony sound system products.

That's possibly how they could have built their budgets, sure, but again, it's inconsistent with what I've experienced of the publishing and media industries.

[Jophiel]

Yeah, I'm sure there's no really vicious, nasty and unwarranted trolling going on anywhere, on any platform. And nobody could possibly be referring to that when they refer to haters.
This isn't my first day of the internet so I'm sure I wouldn't have to spend much time scraping Twitter, Reddit, etc for extremely negative options. That said, several people have acted with dismay to the comments in this specific thread and implied that the lack of praise and excitement is all some Mercer hatred, bitter jealousy, unfairness, etc and I'm not seeing that at all (and somewhat resent the implication but internet gonna internet so whatever).

[SpikeFightwicky]

This is mostly me ranting though it bothers me very personally to see someone's hard work belittled because its their hard work when the quality of the work has yet to be determined. I could be dead wrong on this, these spells and subclasses could be horrendously overpowered but right now we don't know.

The vitriol is unwarranted and should just be ignored.

Just out of curiosity, can we get an example of belittling or vitriol from this thread? I read through it and at first and second glance, it doesn't seem like anything worse than disinterest and dislike, with no real venom being spat.

If it's referring to posts outside of GITP, that's kind of disappointing. I can understand disinterest or dislike, but not anger and bile spewing.

[Sigreid]

Just out of curiosity, can we get an example of belittling or vitriol from this thread? I read through it and at first and second glance, it doesn't seem like anything worse than disinterest and dislike, with no real venom being spat.

If it's referring to posts outside of GITP, that's kind of disappointing. I can understand disinterest or dislike, but not anger and bile spewing.

Eh, it's the internet. I'm sure if I searched for 5 minutes I could find a thread where people are ranting about how they hate the very idea of happiness itself.

[nickl_2000]

Eh, it's the internet. I'm sure if I searched for 5 minutes I could find a thread where people are ranting about how they hate the very idea of happiness itself.

I'm going to bet on the under on this one.

[Chaosmancer]

I don't know if anyone's belittling hard work. Mercer's clearly a guy who has a lot of passion for the game, and has invested a lot of energy into his content. But now we're talking about monetizing that content so market factors regarding the quality of it are valid concerns to be discussed. If I made a bad set of, I don't know, headphones, then I can't argue "but I worked really hard on them" if people identify an issue with them and say they're not interested.

Your certainly correct there have been balance issues in official content, but those are also called out just as they are here.

I think there is an issue with your stance though.

We have no idea what the quality of the book is. It hasn't been published. And ProsecutorGodot specifically calls that out "This is mostly me ranting though it bothers me very personally to see someone's hard work belittled because its their hard work when the quality of the work has yet to be determined."

So, what quality are we judging this book upon? His previous work isn't the greatest, but neither is everything WoTC put out. The cover art is done by a well respected artist, even if people don't like the style. The blurb of the ideas that they included? That is pretty far removed from a "quality factor" sense we don't know how the ideas will be implemented.

But, the book is being pre-judged because it didn't start in the WoTC offices, and isn't about a setting that people have been familiar with for decades. Not everyone is doing that, but some are, and that is unfair to the clear amount of work that has been put into it

[dehro]

If it's referring to posts outside of GITP, that's kind of disappointing. I can understand disinterest or dislike, but not anger and bile spewing.
In my case, it's referred to a rather gatekeeperish attitude that ultimately boils down to a hissy fit because they didn't get spelljammer or something else, or simply because all their clever speculations about what the new release was going to be turned out to be wrong.
Childish really

[Brookshw]

I think there is an issue with your stance though.
We have no idea what the quality of the book is. It hasn't been published. And ProsecutorGodot specifically calls that out "This is mostly me ranting though it bothers me very personally to see someone's hard work belittled because its their hard work when the quality of the work has yet to be determined."


Except we have a track record of the quality of work, Mercer himself even acknowledged that its been pretty bad at times. This isn't some completely new and unopened box where we have no idea of what's inside.

I suppose for a complete answer I'll also mention others have commented they have no interest in the setting, which in turn has its own Wiki and is well enough documented for people to develop informed opinions.

[patchyman]

Morbo:




I'm voting with my wallet and not buying this. I have 0 interest in critical role and don't want to send the wrong message.

Also Morbo:


It seems people who are fans of this are trying to make those of us that are apathetic out to be "the bad guys" by using hyperbole.


I’m not particularly a fan of Rick and Morty or Acquisitions Inc. When those sourcebooks came out, I didn’t post about how I wasn’t going to buy them or “that I was voting with my wallet”, or “that I didn’t want to send the wrong message”.

It’s not even really clear to me what message you are trying to send.

[Jophiel]

We have no idea what the quality of the book is. It hasn't been published. And ProsecutorGodot specifically calls that out "This is mostly me ranting though it bothers me very personally to see someone's hard work belittled because its their hard work when the quality of the work has yet to be determined."
So what? You see a movie trailer and decide if it sounds interesting. Heck, you might not even see it and just hear "It's about the First Clown Battalion in the Great Space Wars" and decide it's not for you. Are you belitting their efforts? If a new music album comes out and you shrug because it's not an artist you like, are you being hateful? Someone worked hard on that too, right? It's not as though Mercer is an unknown quantity to people and, while he might surprise (like an actor shining in a role you'd have never guessed) you're not a bad person for initially not giving it much interest or for being skeptical based on previous materials.

It's just capitalism. People put out a product and potential customers decide if it's something they care about.


I’m not particularly a fan of Rick and Morty or Acquisitions Inc. When those sourcebooks came out, I didn’t post about how I wasn’t going to buy them or “that I was voting with my wallet”, or “that I didn’t want to send the wrong message”.
If you had, I wouldn't accuse you of being bitter or full of vitriol, etc. For that matter, I don't remember people having an attitude of "How dare you not respect their work" when people weren't especially jazzed up about the AI sourcebook, either.

[SpikeFightwicky]

In my case, it's referred to a rather gatekeeperish attitude that ultimately boils down to a hissy fit because they didn't get spelljammer or something else, or simply because all their clever speculations about what the new release was going to be turned out to be wrong.
Childish really

So a classic example of current pop culture consumption vis-à-vis social media. :smallbiggrin:

Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE a 5e write up of Ravenloft. The last content we got was S&S back in 3e/3.5e (and I loved it and have all those books still), but nothing as comprehensive as the massive amount of 2e content. Just throughout the 2e run, the plane changed drastically. The boxed set material is vastly changed by the time Domains of Dread came out. I still have my "Heroes of Horror" 3.5e book too.

That being said, if WotC wants to publish something, I'm along for the ride. I've accepted that they likely won't release what I'd personally like (though Curse of Strahd was unexpected!), but I won't bemoan what they release in the meantime. I'll either buy or pass if it interests me (though I got Acquisitions blindly during a huge Indigo sale and regret it... I'm hoping this book ends up different).



It's just capitalism.
(*snip!*)
If you had, I wouldn't accuse you of being bitter or full of vitriol, etc. For that matter, I don't remember people having an attitude of "How dare you not respect their work" when people weren't especially jazzed up about the AI sourcebook, either.


Slightly off topic, but yesterday on Steam, I was looking at "Cyberpunk 2077", and it has the "Masterpiece" tag on it, despite not being released yet. It kind of frontloads the game as something that shall not be criticized. I imagine any negative review will be met with similar "How dare you not like this game?".

[stoutstien]

Will u buy it? No.

Will one of my players gift it to me? Very likely as I've received all official third party content so far.

Will I use it? Probably bits and pieces.

Do I want more setting book? Yes. I'm hoping that ERLW is a considered a successful release because it's an good format for future setting books.

Do I watch critical role? No. Not my style. If i want comical satirical DnD play dungeons and daddies, Harmonquest or something else that doesn't try to focus on trying to maintain any real rule structure.
Good tabletop gaming and good spectator entertainment isn't something that coincide easily.

All in all I think it will be a nice filler release before the next big official player focused book.

[patchyman]

[voting with my wallet] and [sending a message]



If you had, I wouldn't accuse you of being bitter or full of vitriol, etc. For that matter, I don't remember people having an attitude of "How dare you not respect their work" when people weren't especially jazzed up about the AI sourcebook, either.

You probably wouldn’t say I was indifferent or apathetic, either. “Hostile”, I think, would be an accurate way of putting it.

[Jophiel]

You probably wouldn’t say I was indifferent or apathetic, either. “Hostile”, I think, would be an accurate way of putting it.
Nah. I save "hostile" for people actually hate-tweeting at WotC or writing anger-filled screeds about it. Just saying "I don't like this and am not going to buy it because I don't want WotC to think I wanted it" is closer to indifference than rage or bitterness. I'm not going to try to granularly name every spot on the spectrum between apathy and blinding rage but just saying "Nope, not interested, not buying it, don't want it nor more of it" is pretty benign.

[Spriteless]

I might or might not pick it up, once my financial situation improves. But the philosophy to take is "Rising tides raise all ships." This is speeding up the release of Spelljammer, not slowing it down. Hasbro's lil' D&D team has been growing cautiously, not wanting a bunch of jerks on their team. That's a liability in a world with so much publicity streaming out of every platform. And the streaming settings, well, they are as much in the spirit of 5th ed as the magic mercantilism of Eberron is the spirit of 3rd ed, or the unexplored setting where it's dangerous outside of the town's walls the spirit of OG and 4th (so get exploring that's your job), and the many softcover catalogues of optional rules the spirit of AD&D.

And if you really wanted Spelljammer 5th ed that bad, you'd get out the old setting books and the vehical rules in the back of salt marsh and jam them together yourself. But I know complaining is more fun than working, so I don't hold it against ya. :smallwink:

[micahaphone]

I like that "rising tide raises all ships", that's a nice turn of phrase that I've forgotten about.

https://twitter.com/Wizards_DnD/status/1216835413676937216

It's now up to #1 best seller on Amazon today.

[paladinn]

Just pondering all this.. I can understand why WotC is limiting the releases of "official" materials/books. No one (I think) wants to repeat the mess they had with 2e and 3x, with all the various splatbooks and such. Keeping a lid on this minimizes the amount of splat that's out there and, hypothetically, makes things a tad easier on DMs, since they don't have to be knowledgeable of or make allowance for all that. If you want more options, you can always delve into UA. It may not be official, but it sure is fun:)

I think the real problem with "more books" is with AL. To be AL-compliant, a campaign has to be "Players Handbook + 1"; but there are so many cool things scattered across the currently-exisiting books that it's hard to decide on the +1. I'll be interested in what's in the new book, but is it really going to be AL-compliant? Is it going to be worth foregoing XgtE in favor of this? Are there going to be sufficiently great subclasses to make a player Not go with Hexblade? If not, this may not see much use at all, or will be relegated to the UA pile.

Just my $.02

[ProsecutorGodot]

Just pondering all this.. I can understand why WotC is limiting the releases of "official" materials/books. No one (I think) wants to repeat the mess they had with 2e and 3x, with all the various splatbooks and such. Keeping a lid on this minimizes the amount of splat that's out there and, hypothetically, makes things a tad easier on DMs, since they don't have to be knowledgeable of or make allowance for all that. If you want more options, you can always delve into UA. It may not be official, but it sure is fun:)

I think the real problem with "more books" is with AL. To be AL-compliant, a campaign has to be "Players Handbook + 1"; but there are so many cool things scattered across the currently-exisiting books that it's hard to decide on the +1. I'll be interested in what's in the new book, but is it really going to be AL-compliant? Is it going to be worth foregoing XgtE in favor of this? Are there going to be sufficiently great subclasses to make a player Not go with Hexblade? If not, this may not see much use at all, or will be relegated to the UA pile.

Just my $.02
The more books we see released the more incentivized AL is to see some rule changes that. Perhaps we're closing in on PHB+2 or PHB+XGtE+1.

I don't play AL personally, but I've seen a lot of talk that recent seasons have been trending downward in public opinion. The treasure rules specifically rubbed people the wrong way but splatbook limitation will only become a more pressing issue as the year goes on.

[Luccan]

Just pondering all this.. I can understand why WotC is limiting the releases of "official" materials/books. No one (I think) wants to repeat the mess they had with 2e and 3x, with all the various splatbooks and such. Keeping a lid on this minimizes the amount of splat that's out there and, hypothetically, makes things a tad easier on DMs, since they don't have to be knowledgeable of or make allowance for all that. If you want more options, you can always delve into UA. It may not be official, but it sure is fun:)

I think the real problem with "more books" is with AL. To be AL-compliant, a campaign has to be "Players Handbook + 1"; but there are so many cool things scattered across the currently-exisiting books that it's hard to decide on the +1. I'll be interested in what's in the new book, but is it really going to be AL-compliant? Is it going to be worth foregoing XgtE in favor of this? Are there going to be sufficiently great subclasses to make a player Not go with Hexblade? If not, this may not see much use at all, or will be relegated to the UA pile.

Just my $.02

Interesting question: Is it AL legal? Was the AI book AL legal? Because it occurs to me pretty much everyone ignores that book

[Chaosmancer]

Just pondering all this.. I can understand why WotC is limiting the releases of "official" materials/books. No one (I think) wants to repeat the mess they had with 2e and 3x, with all the various splatbooks and such. Keeping a lid on this minimizes the amount of splat that's out there and, hypothetically, makes things a tad easier on DMs, since they don't have to be knowledgeable of or make allowance for all that. If you want more options, you can always delve into UA. It may not be official, but it sure is fun:)

I think the real problem with "more books" is with AL. To be AL-compliant, a campaign has to be "Players Handbook + 1"; but there are so many cool things scattered across the currently-exisiting books that it's hard to decide on the +1. I'll be interested in what's in the new book, but is it really going to be AL-compliant? Is it going to be worth foregoing XgtE in favor of this? Are there going to be sufficiently great subclasses to make a player Not go with Hexblade? If not, this may not see much use at all, or will be relegated to the UA pile.

Just my $.02


I was just thinking about this type of thing this morning.

I wonder if they will end up taking a page from tournament formats and split AL. Have one side that is PHB+1, easy for people to get into, limited rules, and another side that is more freeform and open to different settings and books.

Or, since a lot of AL is FR content, if they will end up doing a section in different settings. Like, an Eberron game uses PHB+Last War+1, because you need the Eberron content.

[Jophiel]

As I understand it, a big part of PHB+1 is to avoid unintended interactions between splatbooks by only having to balance options against a single core book. Changing AL to PHB+2 or PHB/XGtE+1 would probably open a can of worms they don't want to deal with.

Acquisition Inc is not AL legal (and I doubt this will be). From the latest Player's Guide:
Forgotten Realms characters can choose race and class options from the Player’s Handbook and one other resource—a rule called “PHB+1.” Additional resources include the following products:
•Elemental Evil Player’s Companion (EEPC)
•Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide (SCAG)
•Volo’s Guide to Monsters (VGM)
•Xanathar’s Guide to Everything (XGE)
•Mordenkainen’s Tome of Foes (ToF)
Likewise AL Eberron characters include that book but are restricted to that campaign.

[jjordan]

It's also possible that these books (Acquisitions Inc. and Wildemount) fall into a different category. Rather than being thought of as source books or supplements they might simply be considered to fall into the same vein as the 80's and 90's novels. Less of a tool for playing your game and more of a documentation of what the content creators were using as their guidelines. Kind of like the multitude of Harry Potter books that weren't actual novels.

I know my material has never been intended for publication or wider use so I've created classes, skills, spells, and so on that were balanced for my setting and the use to which they were intended to be put. If I put them in the hands of a min-maxer outside the intended context? Badness. Unless fans of my (non-existent) stories were interested in seeing what sort of guidelines I had in mind because it enriches their understanding of the story.

In some ways this is really a sign of the maturity of the game. It has become so widespread and so mature that it has started becoming a runaway source of story-telling material. The fan-fiction is getting good enough to stand on its own.