Me throw strong darts

[Yakk]

Finesse
When Making an Attack with a finesse weapon, you use your choice of your Strength or Dexterity modifier for the Attack and Damage Rolls. You must use the same modifier for both rolls.
The Dart is a ranged weapon:

Dart 5 cp 1d4 piercing 1/4 lb. Finesse, thrown (range 20/60)

Thrown
If a weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged Attack. If the weapon is a melee weapon, you use the same ability modifier for that Attack roll and damage roll that you would use for a melee Attack with the weapon. For example, if you throw a Handaxe, you use your Strength, but if you throw a Dagger, you can use either your Strength or your Dexterity, since the Dagger has the finesse property.

[...] the ability modifier used for a ranged weapon Attack is Dexterity. Weapons that have the Finesse or Thrown property break this rule.
It appears you are allowed to use Strength to attack with Darts. As a ranged weapon, you must use Dex, but Finness permits you to pick either Str or Dex with attacks.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Is it here in order to share something nice you found? If yes, great. If no, why did you post that? That just look like using the rules of the game.

[carrdrivesyou]

I like this. I am definitely going to have those strong bois toss tiny darts with the force of speeding trucks at my next encounter. DEFINITELY a curve ball lol.

[Yakk]

It is just a hilarious side effect of adding Finesse to Darts that I thought I'd share. Without Finesse, Darts would be Dex-only (as you'd expect).

That, and you can Defensive Duelist while you have them in your hands (!)

[BloodSnake'sCha]

It is just a hilarious side effect of adding Finesse to Darts that I thought I'd share. Without Finesse, Darts would be Dex-only (as you'd expect).

That, and you can Defensive Duelist while you have them in your hands (!)

Parrying and attack by throwing darts on it sound great.
I think the next thing my players will meet are the dart throwers militia of the village they just got to.
The old crazy adventurer that gave them some magic items probably wanted to train a defence for his village and make a joke at the same time.

[Mr Adventurer]

Is there anything else interesting this combination of rules on darts makes possible?

Funny that Finesse property works in conceptual reverse for ranged weapons!

[Yakk]

I thought that Darts might needed Finesse to work with Rogue attacks, but:

The Attack must use a Finesse or a ranged weapon.
as they are Ranged thrown weapons, no.

So as far as I can tell, those are the only 2 impacts of Darts having Finesse; you can use Defensive Duelist, and you can attack with Strength.

(I have seen some people propose adding Finesse to Longbows to permit Str-based attacks with it. The fact it would also permit Defensive Duelist is funny.)

[carrdrivesyou]

I am going to design a tribe of barbarians that fight exclusively with darts. Just to throw my PCs off.

[N810]

mind you, In D&D darts are like large arrows somewhere between lawn darts and javelin sized.

[MaxWilson]

Is it here in order to share something nice you found? If yes, great. If no, why did you post that? That just look like using the rules of the game.

It means that if you have a Sharpshooter who finds a Belt of Storm Giant Strength, he can boost his damage by using darts instead of arrows.

[Sparky McDibben]

It means that if you have a Sharpshooter who finds a Belt of Storm Giant Strength, he can boost his damage by using darts instead of arrows.

Another option to piggyback on Mr. Wilson's insight. Give the Sharpshooter feat to a frost giant and let them use Huge darts (which are really Large javelins from the ogre) in combat against the heroes. That's +4 to hit, but 2d6 + 16 (average 23) damage on hit. Now, that's worse than the rock option already given to the frost giant, but not if you give them two or three attacks. Maybe give them a supporting caster with bless, faerie fire , or other options boosting the frost giant's attack.

[carrdrivesyou]

Another option to piggyback on Mr. Wilson's insight. Give the Sharpshooter feat to a frost giant and let them use Huge darts (which are really Large javelins from the ogre) in combat against the heroes. That's +4 to hit, but 2d6 + 16 (average 23) damage on hit. Now, that's worse than the rock option already given to the frost giant, but not if you give them two or three attacks. Maybe give them a supporting caster with bless, faerie fire , or other options boosting the frost giant's attack.

You are evil and I love you. Keep these ideas rolling lol

[Sparky McDibben]

You are evil and I love you. Keep these ideas rolling lol

Thanks, but throw that one to Mr. Wilson. Never would've cottoned to it without his idea there.

[HappyDaze]

mind you, In D&D darts are like large arrows somewhere between lawn darts and javelin sized.

Correct. These are not the tiny things that you throw in pub games.

Of course, many modern players also think that daggers have small (4-5") blades like pocketknives rather than blades of roughly twice that length as commonly seen in medieval daggers.

[Dimers]

Huh. Strength darts was always obvious to me. Maybe that's just my 2nd-ed experience showing, where a dart thrower can be one of the best damage-dealers in the game. There's an encounter in the original Baldur's Gate that parodies building that way, and I'm actually in a 2e game now with a guy who loves to use darts.

[djreynolds]

Well you can sneak attack with them I guess?
Cheaper than daggers.

[moonfly7]

The Dart is a ranged weapon:



It appears you are allowed to use Strength to attack with Darts. As a ranged weapon, you must use Dex, but Finness permits you to pick either Str or Dex with attacks.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all thrown weapons already use your strength mod instead if dex, and the finesse is their to allow the use of Dex. I'm away from my PHB though and can't check.

[MaxWilson]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all thrown weapons already use your strength mod instead if dex, and the finesse is their to allow the use of Dex. I'm away from my PHB though and can't check.

That's not quite right. Most thrown weapons are melee weapons, but the dart is unusual in being a thrown ranged weapon, which means

(1) it can benefit from Archery, and
(2) if it weren't for the Finesse tag, it would be Dex-only (like a Net is), not Str or Dex.

Thrown in and of itself doesn't make the weapon Str-based.

[moonfly7]

That's not quite right. Most thrown weapons are melee weapons, but the dart is unusual in being a thrown ranged weapon, which means

(1) it can benefit from Archery, and
(2) if it weren't for the Finesse tag, it would be Dex-only (like a Net is), not Str or Dex.

Thrown in and of itself doesn't make the weapon Str-based.

Thrown
If a weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged Attack. If the weapon is a melee weapon, you use the same ability modifier for that Attack roll and damage roll that you would use for a melee Attack with the weapon. For example, if you throw a Handaxe, you use your Strength, but if you throw a Dagger, you can use either your Strength or your Dexterity, since the Dagger has the finesse property.

This is an exact quote from the PHB and you do appear to be correct senior. Although I think it makes since that every thrown weapon in game has at least the option of using strength, as it makes more sense. It might be interesting to let you use strength on the sling to, even though it's acting as a lever for a lot of the power I think it's a logical option.
But on a different note: why only use the dart? You can already deal much better strength damage with a handaxe or a javelin, and I think it's under appreciated how impressive a fighter (or barbarian) with a javelin at higher levels must look like, machine gunning at least 2 off in 6 seconds. Plus, you get all of the fun of the dart, but more damage and a melee function if you need it.
Although a dart is much funnier in the hands of an orc chief.

[MaxWilson]

Although I think it makes since that every thrown weapon in game has at least the option of using strength, as it makes more sense.

Net is a thrown weapon which does not have a Str option, only Dex.


It might be interesting to let you use strength on the sling to, even though it's acting as a lever for a lot of the power I think it's a logical option.
But on a different note: why only use the dart? You can already deal much better strength damage with a handaxe or a javelin, and I think it's under appreciated how impressive a fighter (or barbarian) with a javelin at higher levels must look like, machine gunning at least 2 off in 6 seconds. Plus, you get all of the fun of the dart, but more damage and a melee function if you need it.
Although a dart is much funnier in the hands of an orc chief.

Dart lets you benefit from Archery style, because it's a ranged weapon, whereas handaxe and javelin are melee weapons and do not benefit from Archery.

[Greywander]

The Dart is a ranged weapon:



It appears you are allowed to use Strength to attack with Darts. As a ranged weapon, you must use Dex, but Finness permits you to pick either Str or Dex with attacks.
Something to keep in mind is that darts are basically daggers, but cheaper. I feel like they're meant to fill the niche of disposable throwing knives without breaking the bank for 1st level characters. Daggers, being melee weapons, can already be thrown with STR, but darts, as ranged weapons, need the finesse property in order to do this. Daggers themselves aren't strictly DEX weapons, either, there just isn't a lot of incentive to do a STR build if you're going to be using a finesse weapon anyway.

TL;DR, darts are basically cheaper but crappier daggers that can only be thrown (but are just as effective as a thrown dagger). The fact that they are ranged weapons does give them some interesting properties, however, such as using the Archery style or Sharpshooter feat.

[Tanarii]

Net is a thrown weapon which does not have a Str option, only Dex.



Dart lets you benefit from Archery style, because it's a ranged weapon, whereas handaxe and javelin are melee weapons and do not benefit from Archery.

Conversely Handaxe and Javelin benefit from Dueling Style, even when thrown.

[Lunali]

It is just a hilarious side effect of adding Finesse to Darts that I thought I'd share. Without Finesse, Darts would be Dex-only (as you'd expect).

It's not a side effect, it is the primary effect of adding finesse to darts, that's why they have it and why the description of finesse is worded the way it is.

[djreynolds]

You know with the new UA. fighting style, there are possibilities.

With a shield and actually crossbow expert (no disadvantage for ranged attacks in melee) you could use darts in melee.... with archery style and sharpshooter.

Normally throwers were limited to how much one could draw and throw.

Archery style, a 2 level dip into ranger or paladin for thrower and SS... dart throwers can be the hand crossbow and shield bearing "melee" fighters we had in 2014-15 craze.

[JumboWheat01]

Correct me if I'm wrong (I probably am,) but Ranged weapons have a note that drawing ammo is part of the attack (in this case, the darts,) meanwhile daggers, javelins, etc. being melee weapons, you're limited to the amount you can draw to attack with, once as part of the attack, but then another one requires an item interaction to draw with, which you only get one per round, limiting your throwing to two weapons, or three if you already had a pair in your hand, four if you had a pair in your hand and Dual Wielder. Meanwhile you can get up to eight darts out in one round as a Fighter and still have either a melee weapon to smack things with or maybe a shield to protect yourself.

[Hytheter]

Conversely Handaxe and Javelin benefit from Dueling Style, even when thrown.

Really? Interesting. That would mean the UA thrown-weapon style actually stacks with Duelling for +3 damage. Not exactly game-breaking but could be a nice bonus if you were going to end up with multiple fighting styles anyway.


Correct me if I'm wrong (I probably am,) but Ranged weapons have a note that drawing ammo is part of the attack (in this case, the darts,)

That's a function of the ammunition property, not an inherent feature of ranged weapons in general. Darts lack the ammunition property, so they face the same limitation as other thrown weapons but without even being able to use them in melee. The UA fighting style solves this for everyone though.

[JumboWheat01]

Ah, okay. Was pretty sure I was forgetting something.