Vampire or saint?

[shadowseve]

So, here is the predicament. My friend is playing a character that is going for the saint template. So far he definitely meets the requirements from a moral and stats perspective. However, the party fought a very powerful vampire that made the character make a choice: sacrifice yourself and the rest can go free, including a ton of innocent women and children. Of course the character sacrificed himself. Now since his con was drained and he died he qualifies for the vampire template. However, his sacrifice also qualifies him for sainthood. So, what happens? Does his sacrifice stay the evil taunt and he rises a saint? Does the taint win and he become a vampire? Or does he become both as some king of saint vampire, immune to the taint of the vampire who made him? The DM has yet to make a call. What do you guys think should happen?

[GrayDeath]

All hail the Vampire Saint, who only drinks from other Vampires, helps old ladies find their Cats, and radiantly sparkles!


Jokes aside: level range?
If you dont expect to get many more levels, I would go for some amalgam of both, personally. At the very least for its novelty value.
Maybe there is a God(dess) of nonevil Udnead who allows for it in your Setting?

[Xervous]

This looks like a textbook case for saint winning out if you’re considering playing the saint card.

[shadowseve]

All hail the Vampire Saint, who only drinks from other Vampires, helps old ladies find their Cats, and radiantly sparkles!


Jokes aside: level range?
If you dont expect to get many more levels, I would go for some amalgam of both, personally. At the very least for its novelty value.
Maybe there is a God(dess) of nonevil Udnead who allows for it in your Setting?

Lol. To top it off the character is a half nymph/elf paladin. So she really radiates already 😂😂😂

[Sian]

Yeah, if the character otherwise nails all the requisites for Saint (and the DM is game for including it in the first place), that's a textbook case of sacrificing yourself, for the greater good, and something sufficiently big, good and holy, comes down and wags a finger removing the Vampiric strain and gifting them the Saint Template

[Fouredged Sword]

Nah, you guys are missing the juicy option.

Both.

But not for the same character. The Vampire template is applied to the character and they become an NPC. At the same time divine intervention causes the character to true resurrect with the saint template. The player now has the cool plot hook of an evil doppleganger with vampire powers and a goal of wrecking all the good they do.

[TheCount]

Nah, you guys are missing the juicy option.

Both.

But not for the same character. The Vampire template is applied to the character and they become an NPC. At the same time divine intervention causes the character to true resurrect with the saint template. The player now has the cool plot hook of an evil doppleganger with vampire powers and a goal of wrecking all the good they do.

Bonus points if he makes the character into a dvati with a Ying-Yang theme!
One radiates all the good and holy of the saint, the other the ruthlessness and evil of the vampire undeadhood!
Edit no.2.:
Just make sure the DM is willing to give some allowances and change some of the rules about dvati in Dragon compendium, as they are frankly useless by raw.

Edit: because i cant leave it out, and OP mentioned they are a paladin:
One is there to drag you out from hell or offer salvation and care for all like a saint, the other is is an untiring machine that suck the very life from the opposition and still remain charming, like a vampire, they are the founders and for most lawyers of the bloodied saints lawfirm!

[shadowseve]

Bonus points if he makes the character into a dvati with a Ying-Yang theme!
One radiates all the good and holy of the saint, the other the ruthlessness and evil of the vampire undeadhood!
Edit no.2.:
Just make sure the DM is willing to give some allowances and change some of the rules about dvati in Dragon compendium, as they are frankly useless by raw.

Edit: because i cant leave it out, and OP mentioned they are a paladin:
One is there to drag you out from hell or offer salvation and care for all like a saint, the other is is an untiring machine that suck the very life from the opposition and still remain charming, like a vampire, they are the founders and for most lawyers of the bloodied saints lawfirm!

I really like the dvati idea and will deff mention that. Only thing, you kill one twin the other dies, so some rules wild have to change.

[Batcathat]

I really like the dvati idea and will deff mention that. Only thing, you kill one twin the other dies, so some rules wild have to change.

That seems like it would just add some flavour to the situation. The twins want to stop each other but at the same time has to make sure neither of them dies. Could lead to some interesting plots, I think.

[Clementx]

To expand on the double idea, the PC is immediately rezzed as her normal race, except has a few vampiric traits. Needs soil from her native land to sleep without night terrors. Develops a mild allergy to silver and garlic (like contact dermatitis or poison ivy). Most significantly, no shadow nor reflection. The shadow has been brought to independent unlife.

Start it off as a greater wraith, sucking blood incorporeally through its touch and hiding from the sun. It is obsessed with hunting the peasants the PC saved. Each time it kills one, the nightmares get worse, and it gets more solid/closer to the PC's appearance. Once they are all dead, it is a full copy of the PC, but a Vampire HalfNymph Elf Blackguard.

[shadowseve]

That seems like it would just add some flavour to the situation. The twins want to stop each other but at the same time has to make sure neither of them dies. Could lead to some interesting plots, I think.
only thing is. The character sacrificed her self before. What's to stop her from doing it again to kill her twin?

[Batcathat]

only thing is. The character sacrificed her self before. What's to stop her from doing it again to kill her twin?

Huh. Didn't think about that, that's actually a really good point. I suppose the DM could set up some plot reasons for why that wouldn't be a good idea but that might feel forced.

[shadowseve]

Huh. Didn't think about that, that's actually a really good point. I suppose the DM could set up some plot reasons for why that wouldn't be a good idea but that might feel forced.

I think having the mind connection where they feel each other’s emotions and thoughts would add depth. The paladin weeps when innocents die and she feels her twins pleasure, but the other twin recoils when someone is saved or is redeemed.

[Fouredged Sword]

only thing is. The character sacrificed her self before. What's to stop her from doing it again to kill her twin?

Well, killing a vampire doesn't do a whole lot. Reducing their HP to zero just forces them into their gas state and sends them home to rest. I mean, sure, if you absolutely HAD to ensure the vampire doppleganger wasn't able to do anything for the rest of the night sure, but otherwise it would be a very expensive temporary setback to buy.

[Psyren]

Does he have to be a Saint specifically? I'd split the difference and use Sanctified Creature from the same book instead, which can be applied to undead.

[Glimbur]

You've also got the possibility of a solo side adventure where the sainthood and vampirism make war within the character's soul. You might step outside the 3.5 system for that, which gets to be a lot of work foe the DM, but it could be memorable.

[Synesthesy]

As a vampire has free will, there is no reason a vampire cannot be a saint too. He only need to find a way to (un)live without drinking the blood of people. Then maybe he will try to find a way to cure himself.
This is a little the fake story Durkula pretended in the last oots book, to be the same old one except for the fangs. Only that this time it would be true.

[Psyren]

If OP means a saint, as in a paragon of virtue or faith with no mechanical impact, sure.

But if OP means Saint, as in the BOED template, that can't be applied to undead and would need to be houseruled to work.

[Troacctid]

I think Saint would win. It's the perfect dramatic twist. All seems lost, our hero is vanquished...and then his eyes open, glowing golden instead of midnight black. "What? You can't...that's impossible!" cries the stupefied villain. The hero punches him in the face. The crowd cheers.

[shadowseve]

I think the dm is just letting the saint win. He really wants that template and combining them both would be an ecl nightmare. This way he could just buy off the level adjustment.

[King of Nowhere]

I think Saint would win. It's the perfect dramatic twist. All seems lost, our hero is vanquished...and then his eyes open, glowing golden instead of midnight black. "What? You can't...that's impossible!" cries the stupefied villain. The hero punches him in the face. The crowd cheers.

yeah, that would be the most satisfying option, and if the player has really done his job in roleplaying a not-murderhobo saint, he deserves it. with perhaps a few vampiric stuff that's mostly cosmetic.

the idea of having the vampire part take an independent life and become a recurring antagonist is pretty good too, if you want to follow that plotline.

applying both templates, stating that the sainthood of his sacrifice makes him immune to the taint of the vampirims, would also be satisfying, but as others have pointed out, it would be a template nightmare.

I'm now picturing the positive-energy vampire whose bite restores lost levels instead of draining them. and instead of being vulnerable to sunlight, he's vulnerable to darkness. must be very annoying to sleep

[TheCount]

I'm now picturing the positive-energy vampire whose bite restores lost levels instead of draining them. and instead of being vulnerable to sunlight, he's vulnerable to darkness. must be very annoying to sleep

nah, he and his party just need to get used to night lights, wheter the resulting insults are tolerable or drives the saint into a killing frenzy is up in the air though.... ...well, cold blooded murder, i guess, saints do have a calming aura:)

Innoncent questions would be safe, the ones asked to annoy them though... good thing they can beat them with non-lethal damage:D