Barbaradin?

[Galithar]

Character idea. Ancients Paladin 7/Ancestral Guardian Barbarian X

Assuming starting at level 10 because it will be an alternate character for a campaign I'm currently in.

Now this isn't a super optimized build, more of the idea came from fluff which isn't my normal character building approach. I usually go for sound mechanics and then build my fluff around that. Looking for ideas to refine the build.

Not sure a good race. Mechanically Changeling from Eberron fits pretty well for the Paladin half and would make me a fantastic face, but Goliath is a super iconic Barbarian and fits well mechanically also.

Meant to be super meaty mechanically, but fluffwise everything is drawing power from ancestral spirits.

Paladin Aura is the spirits "possessing" people in the effect to act just a little bit quicker/better then they could on their own.
Magic resistance aura is spirits literally interposing themselves between the magic and the target.
Channel Divinity that is vines trying to restrain a target? Now their spirits.

Reckless attack is the spirit that normally has 'watch my back duty' stops watching my back to try to make an opening, but leaving me vulnerable. (The idea is that the character is actually a relatively poor fighter on their own since they always rely on their ancestor spirits to guide them)
Rage is literally just the spirits physically manifesting and helping instead of just guiding me.

I would have resistance to physical damage while raging, and spells at all times.
At Barbarian 3 the first enemy I hit each round has disadvantage to attack anyone but me.
When not raging I would be a 7th level Paladin with a little extra meat from the Barbarian levels. Not amazing but not terrible.
At higher levels (Barbarian 6) can use a reaction to reduce the damage dealt to allies. Granted by the time I would get this 2d6 is a small drop in the damage bucket, but it could be useful still and very flavorful.

I've also thought about going with a different Path to have Spiritual Weapon. Since it's not concentration I could cast it and then still rage and have something to do with my bonus action.
Alternatively I would probably go sword and shield. I could take PAM and go with a spear for a consistent bonus action attack at +6 or more damage while raging that's a pretty good chunk of damage.

Opinions? Ideas?

[CTurbo]

I like it! Very flavorful concept. I've long thought about a Paladin/Zealot Barb build for myself.


I'd go Half-Elf to get the most for your MADness with a +2 Cha and +1 to Str and Con. On one hand, I'd want PAM, but at level 10 with 7 Paladin levels, you're only going to have a single ASI/feat opportunity so I think I'd bump Str +2 unless you roll for stats and start higher than normal. A case could be made for going Paladin 8 before jumping to Barb just to get that extra ASI.

Don't forget you CAN smite while raging!

[Galithar]

I like it! Very flavorful concept. I've long thought about a Paladin/Zealot Barb build for myself.


I'd go Half-Elf to get the most for your MADness with a +2 Cha and +1 to Str and Con. On one hand, I'd want PAM, but at level 10 with 7 Paladin levels, you're only going to have a single ASI/feat opportunity so I think I'd bump Str +2 unless you roll for stats and start higher than normal. A case could be made for going Paladin 8 before jumping to Barb just to get that extra ASI.

Don't forget you CAN smite while raging!

We do roll for stats. I also get 1 rare item (at least my last character did, this one might get more) so I've thought about going 13 str for multiclass requirements and a belt of hill giant strength. Which really opens up room for the feat if I need it. Though depending on stats the 8th Paladin level looks good. I really wanted to try to start with the Ancestral Guardian Archetype in place though.

And I didn't forget about smite while raging. That's actually what got me to the multiclass idea. I was looking at martials because I always play casters and then latched on to the Ancestral Guardian fluff and wanted to expand on it. So I was looking for a multiclass that would go well with Barbarian. Paladin seemed perfect. Multiclass meant less raging and paladin spells means I have something to do while not raging PLUS it still contributes 95% of the class features while raging. The madness will HOPEFULLY be easy to deal with from starting magic items and/or good rolled stats.

Half-elf isn't a bad idea and if I have odd stats in STR and CON I'll definitely keep it in mind. Thanks!

[Arkhios]

Keep in mind that wearing heavy armor makes raging less effective, as it prevents you from gaining the default bonus to damage rolls, advantage on strength checks and saves, and gaining the damage resistance.

You should try and get Dexterity at least 14, if you wish to keep up with the AC while wearing Medium armor or less.

[Galithar]

Keep in mind that wearing heavy armor makes raging less effective, as it prevents you from gaining the default bonus to damage rolls, advantage on strength checks and saves, and gaining the damage resistance.

You should try and get Dexterity at least 14, if you wish to keep up with the AC while wearing Medium armor or less.

Oh yeah this was my plan. I may not be able to swing 14 Dex depending on what I roll, but I'll be in half-plate for sure.
I'm not so concerned with maxing AC though. The resistances that I'll have will be my main line of defense.

[Arkhios]

The character had better be called Barbara, by the way!

[da newt]

I'm no expert but:

Maybe reduce the Barb dip to only what you need (3 maybe 4 for the ASI) and then Sorcerer or Warlock to maximize your smite capacity? This may be more optimized as the extra Barb lvls don't add that much that I can see ... reducing 2d6 (av. 7) damage per round for your team is nice (and thematic) but increasing your damage may be more beneficial.

V Human point buy you could go 15 - 14 - 15 - 8 - 9 - 13, and start w/ PAM for shield and spear. First ASI +1 ST & CON. I don't think there is much reason to prioritize CHA if you mostly just divine smite.

[Galithar]

I'm no expert but:

Maybe reduce the Barb dip to only what you need (3 maybe 4 for the ASI) and then Sorcerer or Warlock to maximize your smite capacity? This may be more optimized as the extra Barb lvls don't add that much that I can see ... reducing 2d6 (av. 7) damage per round for your team is nice (and thematic) but increasing your damage may be more beneficial.

V Human point buy you could go 15 - 14 - 15 - 8 - 9 - 13, and start w/ PAM for shield and spear. First ASI +1 ST & CON. I don't think there is much reason to prioritize CHA if you mostly just divine smite.

I'm more worried about flavor then pure effectiveness. Also the build is meant to be tanky not a huge damage dealer. Extra rages

Also an update, I rolled stats for the character and got the following.

17, 16, 16, 13, 11, 8

If I go Changeling I can end with

18 13 16 8 11 18

I feel pretty okay with having just 1 ASI used to pick up PAM with those stats. At Barbarian 4 I could grab +1 Dex / +1 Wis to round out to even numbers.

V. Human isn't an option for me (personal hatred of the race. It's unbalanced which is why everyone always suggests them.)

Cha prioritization is important to the build for the Paladin Aura and for any casting done while not raging. I plan to make use of getting moonbeam on the Oath spell list. Also the channel Divinity to restrain is nice, but only if I can make them fail the save 1 or more times.

[CheddarChampion]

If you aren't tied to changeling, half-elf would get you 18/14/16/8/11/18, getting you +2 Dex mod rather than +1. Two ASI's later you'd have all the stats you need.
Alternatively, changeling for 18/14/15/8/11/18, starting as paladin and going for resilient (constitution).

Lastly I'd go for 9, 11, or 13 levels in paladin (but that's more personal taste).

[BioAlchemist]

While not the best mechanically, the flavor on this build just screams Valenar elf to me. They’re known for the their ancestor veneration and have ties to the natural world that fit the Oath of Ancients well. Also if you wanted to dual wield to get that rage bonus on more attacks/more smiting opportunities for nova, they can use the double scimitar with no real role play issues.

[CTurbo]

I'm more worried about flavor then pure effectiveness. Also the build is meant to be tanky not a huge damage dealer. Extra rages

Also an update, I rolled stats for the character and got the following.

17, 16, 16, 13, 11, 8

If I go Changeling I can end with

18 13 16 8 11 18

I feel pretty okay with having just 1 ASI used to pick up PAM with those stats. At Barbarian 4 I could grab +1 Dex / +1 Wis to round out to even numbers.

V. Human isn't an option for me (personal hatred of the race. It's unbalanced which is why everyone always suggests them.)

Cha prioritization is important to the build for the Paladin Aura and for any casting done while not raging. I plan to make use of getting moonbeam on the Oath spell list. Also the channel Divinity to restrain is nice, but only if I can make them fail the save 1 or more times.


Ok those are great stats and Half-Elf is still going to be the best mechanically as mentioned above. Starting 18, 14, 16, 8, 11, 18 is solid.

I think Aasimar would be AMAZING as their racial "rage" type trait stacks really well with the Barb's Rage. Check out all 3 subtypes of Aasimar. Fallen fits best mechanically with a +1 Str and +2 Cha, but may not work thematically. Scourge would be great with a +1 Con and +2 Cha but you'd need to bump Str.


I've got a different fun idea.

Tabaxi! You could start 16 Str, 15 Dex, 16 Con, 8 Int, 11 Wis, 18 Cha. Bump Str +2 and get Inspiring Leader if you can. Tabaxi get a climb speed, darkvision, can double their speed every other round, and proficiency in Stealth AND Perception. Oh and Str based claw attacks! You won't even need a weapon. Just run around scratch smiting things while adding your rage bonus damage too.

[Galithar]

Ok those are great stats and Half-Elf is still going to be the best mechanically as mentioned above. Starting 18, 14, 16, 8, 11, 18 is solid.

I think Aasimar would be AMAZING as their racial "rage" type trait stacks really well with the Barb's Rage. Check out all 3 subtypes of Aasimar. Fallen fits best mechanically with a +1 Str and +2 Cha, but may not work thematically. Scourge would be great with a +1 Con and +2 Cha but you'd need to bump Str.


I've got a different fun idea.

Tabaxi! You could start 16 Str, 15 Dex, 16 Con, 8 Int, 11 Wis, 18 Cha. Bump Str +2 and get Inspiring Leader if you can. Tabaxi get a climb speed, darkvision, can double their speed every other round, and proficiency in Stealth AND Perception. Oh and Str based claw attacks! You won't even need a weapon. Just run around scratch smiting things while adding your rage bonus damage too.

I like the Aasimar idea for it's mechanics, but I'm not a huge fan of the lore behind them for the character. I bet my DM will allow me to fluff myself as a Human with Fallen Aasimar stats though. Then I can reflavor all the racial abilities as coming from my spirits! And I'd have the same stat allocation that Changeling would give, but add more flavorful abilities!! Thank you!!

Necrotic Shroud as the energy of my ancestors surrounds me, and then a bonus action To rage as my ancestors begin to physically manifest around me. The ability to inflict fear with necrotic Shroud is on point for the flavor. I'm really liking this. :smallbiggrin:


While the Tabaxi idea is entertaining I think I'll stick with something a little more mechanically optimized. I'm already drifting pretty far from my normal optimization standard on this build.


Edit: (to avoid double posting)

Just had a thought. I get to start with a rare item. The Belt of Hill Giant strength (set strength to 21) as mentioned earlier is one such item. I could take it and set attributes a little different.

13 Str minimum for multiclass
16 Dex
17 Con
8 Int
11 Wis
16 Cha

Throw the belt of hill giant strength and go Scourge Aasimer or Changeling so I can get +2 CHA and +1 Con

21 Str
16 Dex
18 Con
8 Int
11 Wis
18 Cha

Before any ASIs
I could go unarmored for equal AC to half-plate or continue wearing armor and just have better HP and saves. Unarmored seems cool as I could fluff it as the spirits defending me, which lends more merit to my reckless attack being a spirit not 'watching my back' for a round.

I could still easily afford my PAM with my 1 ASI and have better stats.

[GlenSmash!]

I like it! Very flavorful concept. I've long thought about a Paladin/Zealot Barb build for myself.


I'd go Half-Elf to get the most for your MADness with a +2 Cha and +1 to Str and Con. On one hand, I'd want PAM, but at level 10 with 7 Paladin levels, you're only going to have a single ASI/feat opportunity so I think I'd bump Str +2 unless you roll for stats and start higher than normal. A case could be made for going Paladin 8 before jumping to Barb just to get that extra ASI.

Don't forget you CAN smite while raging!

Zealot Paladin is an interesting one. If you get to 14 Zealot you can Rage Beyond death then use Lay on Hands before your Rage ends to avoid death. Comes online pretty late though.