How viable is Ranger with polearm mastery and possibly GWM and Sentinel

[huginn]

My DM is starting a new campaign and I thought about trying a strength based ranger getting polearm mastery and possibly GWM and/or Sentinel

This will be a variant human with standard array. I have a nagging feeling it may not work out that well at least for a ranger. My concern is hunters mark and polearm mastery are going to keep competing for my bonus action anf I may end up missing too often due to GWM

I just like to get some feedback from anyone who actually tried using these feats with a ranger. I am debating between this and duel wielding

[stoutstien]

What subclass you looking at? Some have constant bonus action uses that will fight you for action economy.

Overall PaM is a solid pick for most strength rangers but GWM is better not taken or taken late game.

I played a strength hunter with duelist and SnB and it was a blast.

[Aimeryan]

My DM is starting a new campaign and I thought about trying a strength based ranger getting polearm mastery and possibly GWM and/or Sentinel

This will be a variant human with standard array. I have a nagging feeling it may not work out that well at least for a ranger. My concern is hunters mark and polearm mastery are going to keep competing for my bonus action anf I may end up missing too often due to GWM

I just like to get some feedback from anyone who actually tried using these feats with a ranger. I am debating between this and duel wielding

Honestly? 5e is on easy mode if encounters are done by the book - it is difficult to actually be unviable. If your DM takes off the training wheels then my rconcern would be that the class doesn't really do much for what you are considering; you would be better mechanically as a Fighter and just giving him a ranger background. Still, even then, it isn't going to be horrible, long as you play it safe.

[Galithar]

If you plan on trying to have Hunter's Mark up at all times then PAM isn't going to net you a bonus action attack very often. Most enemies are likely to last only 1-3 rounds. That means 0-2 bonus action attacks before you have to move it again.

If you use Hunter's Mark mainly when A. You're not in range of a target yet l, and it will be alive next round or B. It's likely to be alive for 2 or more rounds otherwise save the spell.

1d12+4 (glaive attack) + 1d4+4 is better then 1d12+1d6+4.

Once you get extra attack Hunter's Mark is about even with the PAM bonus action attack. 2d6=7 1d4+4=6.5

Now this doesn't mean PAM doesn't work with a Ranger. It allows you to save the spell slot except against strong enemies when you need the extra damage.

2d12+3d6+1d4+12 (Hunter's Mark with bonus action attack) is a pretty good turn. If you can sustain this for a round or two it's good sustainable damage.

Now even when you aren't using the BA attack from PAM that doesn't mean that PAM isn't contributing. Getting a reaction attack when the enemy enters your reach is always going to be useful. This means PAM can add 2 attacks per round because entering your reach is more common then leaving it. If you do add in sentinel in order to stop them 10 feet from you, on your turn you take your attacks and then step back 5 feet so they have to enter your reach again. It won't work every round, but it will add some reaction attacks.


Tl;Dr strength ranger with PAM can work. Just don't get too fixated on Hunter's Mark. PAM bonus action attack is just as good if you have to move it every turn. This preserves your spell slots and let's you use them for other things while maintaining or improving damage compared to other attack strategies.

[GlenSmash!]

GWM and Hunter's Mark both compete for what to do when you target hits 0 HP. And the -5/+10 works best with an accuracy boost. So I'd skip that one.

Still PAM is a great use of a bonus action when you aren't casting or Moving Hunter's Mark.

[Chronos]

"Wasting a spell slot" is very seldom an issue with Hunter's Mark, given that even at first level, it lasts a full hour, and first-level spell slots are a fairly abundant resource. All it really means is ten less Goodberries you'll be making at the end of the day. But yes, you will often be using your bonus action to either cast or move it.

GWM and Hunter's Mark both compete for what to do when you target hits 0 HP.
Note that you don't have to move Hunter's Mark immediately after your target dies. It can be at any time after that, within the spell's duration. This enables the same spell to be used across multiple encounters.

[GlenSmash!]

Note that you don't have to move Hunter's Mark immediately after your target dies. It can be at any time after that, within the spell's duration. This enables the same spell to be used across multiple encounters.

Certainly true but I can't foresee why I would want to delay moving it even by one round just to snag another 2 handed melee attack (that wouldn't benefit from extra Hunter's Mark damage anyway)

[Yakk]

GWM is worse the more damage you do, and better the more accurate you are.

If after GWM you'd hit with X pips, then you gain X/2 DPS (swing) from it.

It costs you Y/4, where Y is your on-hit damage without GWM, in misses.

So with +3 stat, HM and a 1d4 butt-end, that is 9/4 damage per swing lost for X/2 damage gained. X/2 = 9/4 -> X = 4.5. So if after -5/+10 you hit with 5 pips or more (16+) you gain DPR from doing -5/+10; at level 4 that is an AC of 23 or less.

On the main hand, we have X/2 = 13/4, or X=6.5, or hitting on a 14+, corresponding to an AC of 21 or less.

(This means that GWM isn't completely pointless even after HW increases the damage per hit.)

The bonus action contention is a problem. I'd run the numbers on GWM vs +2 stat vs PAM in the best case.

PAM will probably only really come out ahead when you get the reaction attack, but you cannot guarantee that.

Trying to build around PAM+Sentinal+GWM is a mug's game; that and 2 stat bumps shows up closer to level 20 than where you are probably playing.

[Reynard]

Certainly true but I can't foresee why I would want to delay moving it even by one round just to snag another 2 handed melee attack (that wouldn't benefit from extra Hunter's Mark damage anyway)

Because 1d4+Str is better than 1d6. This stops being the case once you get a second attack, but 1d4+Str might still beat out 2d6, since the average is only a little worse (Assuming 18 Str, it's an extra 6.5 damage vs 7), the floor is higher (5 vs 2), but the maximum is much lower (8 vs 12)

[Sorinth]

I don't see GWM as being worth it, but PAM is certainly a strong choice. With Hunter's Mark you want to maximize the number of attacks, sure you won't get the BA attack from PAM every round since you will be casting/moving HM but at the end of the day it's still an extra attack every few rounds. On top of that you get a solid reaction attack.

Keep in mind though, you don't have Con proficiency and are going to be in melee range, so it can be tough to maintain concentration on Hunter's Mark. So it might be worth going spear and shield for the added defence.

Also worth noting, if you go Hunter, Colossus Slayer triggers once per turn so it can trigger on the PAM reaction attack and then again during your turn.

[stoutstien]

Mostly GWM is only worth it after you have maxed attack stat. There are few exceptions like if you can guarantee accuracy bonuses like bless or alchemists elixirs on top of advantage like barbarians or samurai.

Combat just doesn't last long enough for GWM to make a huge impact until later levels of play.

[DarknessEternal]

All this commentary so far is in a vacuum and probably not very useful.

You need to answer a question first: Why Ranger?

[Witty Username]

PAM + sentinel is worth using on any martial. It can allow you a bit of hit and run if you are worried about tanking too much. I would recommend defense fighting style. Overall it sounds fun.

[djreynolds]

Can you use the new UA?

If so, you could grab a cantrip like thorn whip and draw the enemy to your party. Or archery or defensive style.

I actually played a strength based beastmaster with PAM and sentinel.

Initially ran it S&B with a level of fighter for protection style... But at 5th discarded the fighter and changed it up.

Basically I kept a wolf by me and let others beat on it and got almost 1 reaction attack every round. The DM couldn't help but attack my pet.

And when it died.... I found something else. It was a viable build... and when I died by a pack of dire wolves and a winter wolf it felt right as I was cruel beastmaster.

Another idea for you... grab 1 level of monk. Use dex based spear or quarterstaff and go PAM and sentinel.... take archery style... because you can still use a bow when needed.

I never used GWM as a ranger as it was just too expensive with PAM and sentinel but with the new UA beast of the air... just go GWM.

With say a mountain dwarf... because of the +2 to strength and con... You can squeeze in a 14 dex. With scale mail or breast plate... as good as chain

Don't be scared by a 14 in dex or even less... pass without a trace fixes stealth issues. +10.

Also in early play... the wolf companion actually scores lots of trips... by 5th level most stuff passes.

And something about hunters mark... Don't let it control choices... it does compete now for a bonus action... But at higher levels you're not dropping stuff so fast.

Good luck

[Nagog]

As long as you have a decent to-hit bonus, PAM and GWM will always (and I do mean always) outshine pretty much everything else. Hunter's Mark will compete for bonus action, but it has enough longevity in combat that it won't be a problem all that often. That said, Sharpshooter fits better with the typical Ranger flavor. If that's not what you're going for, Horde Breaker will give you a second attack without compromising your Bonus Action and can be achieved in melee with any weapon that has the range to do it. Whips are a good choice, but if you want it to work with GWM, I'd look at a Lance. The disadvantage on 5 ft range can be problematic, but thats something most DMs I know would handwave.

[MrStabby]

Yeah, it should be fine. GWM maybe less so, but you have a great combination of feats there.

Sure there is a bit of a bonus action conflict with hunter's mark, but one way to think of this is that you use PAM instead and then have a whole lot more spell slots to play with.

It will push you towards certain subclasses that are not bonus action intensive though. Gloom stalker might be your best bet.

Are you open to multiclassing?