[3.5] Greater Manyshot vs Improved Rapid Shot

[liquidformat]

So for a scout or swift hunter build I know Greater Manyshot is a much better choice but is that true across the board, what about for a rogue sneak attack build or a ranger or other build?

Interested to hear peoples thoughts!

[Jack_McSnatch]

Ranged is NEVER the way to go with rogue. Only getting one attack with sneak attack dice is exceptionally lame. I've seen some builds focused around doing a ton of damage with a single shot, but that's not what we're talking about.

A ranger might do well with improved rapid shot, especially if you go into order of the bowe initiate. The lack of penalty is pretty nice, but it really only benefits you if each of your attacks do decent damage. Maybe if you took things like ranged trip and disarm. I could see a pretty cool hail of arrows build, with each arrow having some different trick. Wouldn't call it high-op, but it certainly sounds like fun.

[DarkSoul]

With travel devotion, improved rapid shot is on par with greater manyshot. At +16 BAB the extra attack from IRS might push it ahead a bit. I think IRS might pull further ahead if a splitting bow is factored in.

This was true for my cleric archer at level 18. Assuming I hit with all attacks, GRS did more damage.

Also, Order of the Bow Initiate is a trap. Getting the extra dice of damage takes a standard action, which precludes using Manyshot OR Rapid Shot.

[liquidformat]

This was true for my cleric archer at level 18. Assuming I hit with all attacks, GRS did more damage.
Are you talking about Greater Manyshot or Improved Rapid Shot here?



Also, Order of the Bow Initiate is a trap. Getting the extra dice of damage takes a standard action, which precludes using Manyshot OR Rapid Shot.

3.0 version was an amazing class that gave you all sorts of great benefits, the new version is just garbage.


So I can see how even with a sneak attack build GMS might be a better choice, since you are technically making standard action against however many enemies so it is easier to pull off than making a full attack while keeping an enemy flat footed for IRS.

However, for something like a strength based archer build I still think IRS is probably better especially if something like Peerless Archer or hanks energy bow is on the table.

[Crake]

Ranged is NEVER the way to go with rogue. Only getting one attack with sneak attack dice is exceptionally lame. I've seen some builds focused around doing a ton of damage with a single shot, but that's not what we're talking about.

I dunno, the reason ranged is generally considered bad for a rogue is because it's really hard to qualify for a full attack with ranged, while maintain sneak attack conditions. On the other hand, if you were utilising greater manyshot, and had a form of hide in plain sight, you could quite easily launch volley after volley of full sneak attack manyshots every round by hiding with hide in plain sight, and then manyshotting, or preferably the other way around, so you could remain hidden between rounds.

Were it not for the fact that the build requires bab 6 for greater manyshot, thus coming online rather late, it would actually be a very interesting build to play around with.

Edit: I managed to make a level 8 character that utlizes sneak attack, hide in plain sight, and greater manyshot all by level 8, but in doing so realised I actually completely omitted rogue levels.

[DarkSoul]

Are you talking about Greater Manyshot or Improved Rapid Shot here?Sorry, I was talking about Improved Rapid Shot.
3.0 version was an amazing class that gave you all sorts of great benefits, the new version is just garbage.Won't argue with you there.
So I can see how even with a sneak attack build GMS might be a better choice, since you are technically making standard action against however many enemies so it is easier to pull off than making a full attack while keeping an enemy flat footed for IRS.However, for something like a strength based archer build I still think IRS is probably better especially if something like Peerless Archer or hanks energy bow is on the table.Yeah, if you're limited to a standard action attack, then Greater Manyshot would obviously be the better choice. I didn't mind having both feats on my archer, just so he'd have options no matter what kind of combat situation he was in.

[Psyren]

Ranged is NEVER the way to go with rogue. Only getting one attack with sneak attack dice is exceptionally lame. I've seen some builds focused around doing a ton of damage with a single shot, but that's not what we're

Never say never, you just need a way to continue to qualify for sneak attack throughout the sequence. This is easiest with melee because of flanking, but it's doable from ranged as well - Greater Invisibility, or Fogcuttng Lenses + Smokestick or Fog Cloud for example.