Weapon property - Defensive

[nickl_2000]

My DM has added a third party supplement for our next campaign that has other properties for weapons and I'm looking at one of them.

Defensive: When you are wielding a weapon with the defensive property, you can use your reaction when you are hit with a melee attack to a 1 to your AC, potentially making the attack miss. If you are wielding two defensive weapons, you add 2 to your AC.

When property is applied to a weapon type the damage steps down or removes another weapons property.
Examples:
Parrying Dagger has the defensive property, but it doesn't have the thrown property.
The Epee is a martial, finesse, defensive, piercing weapon, and 1d6 damage


Question 1: If you were given this option would you use on a character?
Question 2: Does this make two weapon fighting more attractive to you?
Question 3: Does this make the Dual Wielder feat more attractive to you?


I personally love it because I've always adored the Main-gauche, having specialized in it when I did SCA style rapier combat.

[ProsecutorGodot]

It's a hard sell for classes that already have reaction uses, but I see it as almost a universal upgrade to two weapon fighting. Personally I wouldn't use it but I can see some appeal in it.

I'm more interested in the mechanics behind adding defensive to a weapon than anything else, does the player design the weapon? Is there a larger table of examples available? How diverse are these options? That would go a long way in properly deciding how viable it would be when Dual Wielder is concerned.

[nickl_2000]

It's a hard sell for classes that already have reaction uses, but I see it as almost a universal upgrade to two weapon fighting. Personally I wouldn't use it but I can see some appeal in it.

I'm more interested in the mechanics behind adding defensive to a weapon than anything else, does the player design the weapon? Is there a larger table of examples available? How diverse are these options? That would go a long way in properly deciding how viable it would be when Dual Wielder is concerned.

There are a lot more weapons added and properties added other than this. Somewhere around 100 new weapons in the manuals.

Here are the ones I see with defensive:
Parrying Dagger, Scissors, Cutlass (S, 1d6+1 defensive, heavy, martial), Epee (P, 1d6, Defensive, finesse, martial), saber (S, 1d6, defensive, finesse), A number of heavy polearms, and several with an East Asian feel to them.



One of the things I see as a positive is that it's at will. So, if you are playing a rogue there is little reason not to have two weapons out there. After all, making someone miss is going to always be better than uncanny dodge. Also, note that I just realized it can be used on melee attacks only.

[clash]

I would use it with 2 weapons for sure. I would use it with one weapon on a character with high ac where it is likely to make a difference.

[MaxWilson]

My DM has added a third party supplement for our next campaign that has other properties for weapons and I'm looking at one of them.

Defensive: When you are wielding a weapon with the defensive property, you can use your reaction when you are hit with a melee attack to a 1 to your AC, potentially making the attack miss. If you are wielding two defensive weapons, you add 2 to your AC.

Well, that's a free +1 to AC for any archery-based character. Just pull out a defensive weapon at the end of every turn and hold it in your off-hand.

[Wildarm]

My DM has added a third party supplement for our next campaign that has other properties for weapons and I'm looking at one of them.

Defensive: When you are wielding a weapon with the defensive property, you can use your reaction when you are hit with an attack to a 1 to your AC, potentially making the attack miss. If you are wielding two defensive weapons, you add 2 to your AC.



Yes, TWF is much more attractive with those weapons especially on a Rogue who cares more for the extra chance at sneak attack than the low damage of the offhand bonus attack. Epee + Parrying Dagger would be very strong in the hands of a rogue. Essentially gives them +2 AC when needed. Competes with your uncanny dodge reaction but if it negates a hit it's even better than uncanny dodge. You lose a step off your main weapon damage dice(1d8 Rapier -> 1d6 Epee) but otherwise it would be excellent.

Honestly, the Cutlass is the one I worry about the most from your list. A sword that does the same average damage as a longsword, that I can use a reaction to get +1 AC AND can use Great Weapon Master(!). That's crazy good. It would be fantastic for a Half-Elf Hexblade1/SamuraiX build /w Elven Accuracy and GWM.

[malachi]

1) I would probably use a defensive longsword (replace Versatile with Defensive) if I was already going sword n board, because occasionally it would have an impact (1/20 attacks made against the character would be impacted).

For a wizard / bard / warlock / sorcerer, I'd get a parrying staff (losing versatile or dropping to 1d4) and a parrying dagger, because +2 AC as a reaction is the (probably weaker) half of the War Wizard's level 2 ability. It'd help mitigate spell expenditures for shield (or allow access as a bard/warlock, or allow different spell known as a sorcerer).

For a martial character who didn't have shield proficiency (just rogues, I think), I'd take one in the off-hand, and probably put it on the main weapon as well. Since rogue damage comes from sneak attack, and not attacking multiple times, I'd definitely lose 1 dmg / turn for potentially +2 AC (meaning that I have a > 10% chance to entirely parry the attack I'd otherwise use Uncanny Dodge on).

Now, if the DM doesn't tell me the information to indicate whether the +1 / +2 to AC will actually change the attack from a Hit to a Miss, I probably wouldn't bother on a character that had a chance to do something useful with some other reaction that round.

2) No. I'd use it if I was already using TWF, but I would prefer a shield (always +2 AC, total of +3 for the one attack I use the reaction defense on).

3) No. Unless you could do something silly/abusive like remove the two-handed property of a Glaive and dual-wield two 1d10 Heavy + Reach + Defensive weapons :p But as a DM, I'd ban that.

[nickl_2000]

Yes, TWF is much more attractive with those weapons especially on a Rogue who cares more for the extra chance at sneak attack than the low damage of the offhand bonus attack. Epee + Parrying Dagger would be very strong in the hands of a rogue. Essentially gives them +2 AC when needed. Competes with your uncanny dodge reaction but if it negates a hit it's even better than uncanny dodge. You lose a step off your main weapon damage dice(1d8 Rapier -> 1d6 Epee) but otherwise it would be excellent.

Honestly, the Cutlass is the one I worry about the most from your list. A sword that does the same average damage as a longsword, that I can use a reaction to get +1 AC AND can use Great Weapon Master(!). That's crazy good.

Yaa, you have a solid point there. I'm not sure anyone noticed it, but I'm guessing we would pull that one out and not allow it if anyone wanted to use it.

[Yakk]

High rogue Charop involves making a sneak attack with your reaction (so as to get 2 taps with your SA dice). You sort of need it to keep up with GWM/SS-supported multi-tap builds.

Cutlass (S, 1d6+1 defensive, heavy, martial)

That is crazy broken; every single core HEAVY weapon is two-handed.

HEAVY unlocks GWM -5/+10 feat. So you can dual wield cutlasses (getting X+1 taps at +10 damage per tap), or sword+board them (getting sweet shield AC), and get the -5/+10.

[Joe the Rat]

Cutlass (S, 1d6+1 defensive, heavy, martial)

That is crazy broken; every single core HEAVY weapon is two-handed.

HEAVY unlocks GWM -5/+10 feat. So you can dual wield cutlasses (getting X+1 taps at +10 damage per tap), or sword+board them (getting sweet shield AC), and get the -5/+10.Not to mention that gnomes and halflings wield the oversized camp knife at disadvantage. Maybe the basket hilt blocks their view?

On the other hand, this is almost to my holy grail of silliness: a weapon with light and heavy properties.

***

On defensive- does the property stack with defensive duelist? It would be kind of sad for the agile swordsman specialist to gain no benefit from this type of weaponry.

[nickl_2000]

Not to mention that gnomes and halflings wield the oversized camp knife at disadvantage. Maybe the basket hilt blocks their view?

On the other hand, this is almost to my holy grail of silliness: a weapon with light and heavy properties.

***

On defensive- does the property stack with defensive duelist? It would be kind of sad for the agile swordsman specialist to gain no benefit from this type of weaponry.

Rules in the book specifically say that no it doesn’t stack. We may reconsider that at the table though.

[Mr Adventurer]

I wouldn't build around this, you're spending a Reaction to get +1 AC against a single melee attack and reducing all your damage in the meantime. The good part of it is that you can add it afterwards I guess but +1 isn't that much for one attack once per round.

If I wanted a character to do this kind of thing I'd spend more resources for a better option (Defensive Duellist - which I also think feels weak - or Shield, for example)