Warforged Monk/Cleric Sacred Fist Build

[Wonton64]

I am trying to figure out the best way to optimize a Warforged Sacred Fist. He's a follower of Mielikki(this is already decided, so no changing to ideal for Planning/Undeath cheese) and he loves plants. Using the standard array, my starting stats are currently 10/10/16/12/14/12. Current plan is Monk 2/ (Cloistered?) Cleric 3/Landforged Walker 5/Sacred Fist 10. All first party sources allowed. The only feats I have are Ironwood Body and Combat Casting, both taken at first level (DM ruled that my Warforged got a bonus feat at level 1 specifically for armor.)

Goals: Buffing, Healing if needed, punching, and turning into plants.
Domains: Plants, Travel.

I know DMM: Persist is the standard recommendation, but I'd like to avoid it since it feels...boring? I'd like to balance power with flavor and fun.

First off, I'm not sure if I should go Cleric or Cloistered Cleric, I don't know if I can get the skill points needed to get into LW at level 5 otherwise. Secondly, Cleric and Landforged Walker are non-negotiable for my build, but if someone has recommendations that don't involve Monk/Sacred Fist, I'd be open to hearing them.

Rest of the party is currently a Wizard, Rogue, Duskblade, and a Paladin.

[Psyren]

Unlike a Warforged's base composite plating, Ironwood Body counts as light armor, which will shut off your monk abilities - did your DM houserule that limitation away?

If you don't want to persist your buffs, you can at least consider extending them, particularly any that are 10 min./level.

[Wonton64]

Unlike a Warforged's base composite plating, Ironwood Body counts as light armor, which will shut off your monk abilities - did your DM houserule that limitation away?

If you don't want to persist your buffs, you can at least consider extending them, particularly any that are 10 min./level.

No, but Sacred Fist features work in light armor. I'd lose the Wis to AC, but between Ironwood Body, the natural armor from Landforged Walker, and the AC bonuses in Sacred Fist, I figured it would even out. Also, I opted for Decisive Strike over Flurry of Blows which technically doesn't state the Monk has to be unarmored to use...

[sleepyphoenixx]

No, but Sacred Fist features work in light armor. I'd lose the Wis to AC, but between Ironwood Body, the natural armor from Landforged Walker, and the AC bonuses in Sacred Fist, I figured it would even out.
Not even close, at least at higher levels. Wis to AC on a wis-based caster is pretty hard to beat without investing a significant chunk of WBL into AC.

I also don't think Monk/Sacred Fist adds that much to your build since you get plant shape, which is basically all the melee power you need if Fiend Folio is on the table.

If you want to stay in-theme Holt Warden (CC) is an alternative.
Its abilities are nothing spectacular (basically druid abilities like Woodland Stride and such) but it has a solid chassis and doesn't lose any casting.

Another option is Runecaster (PGtF). Inscribe Rune by itself is incredibly useful since you can craft a rune of a spell of any level in 10 minutes. Getting use/day runes, free maximize and similar boons for it is pretty neat. Also full casting.

If you want to go more in a melee direction there's Knight of the Raven (ECR), which also gives you a raven familiar. Full BAB but loses a level of casting.

[Wonton64]

I also don't think Monk/Sacred Fist adds that much to your build since you get plant shape, which is basically all the melee power you need if Fiend Folio is on the table.

If you want to stay in-theme Holt Warden (CC) is an alternative.
Its abilities are nothing spectacular (basically druid abilities like Woodland Stride and such) but it has a solid chassis and doesn't lose any casting.

Another option is Runecaster (PGtF). Inscribe Rune by itself is incredibly useful since you can craft a rune of a spell of any level in 10 minutes. Getting use/day runes, free maximize and similar boons for it is pretty neat. Also full casting.

If you want to go more in a melee direction there's Knight of the Raven (ECR), which also gives you a raven familiar. Full BAB but loses a level of casting.

I had looked at Holt Warden or Verdant Lord as well, so I could look at them again. As to Knight of the Raven, I had seen it, liked it, and thought about refluffing it for our campaign (main reason I didn't was I was afraid of becoming a better Paladin and stepping on the real Paladin's toes), but why would it be a better martial choice than Sacred Fist, if Plant Shape is my melee bread and butter?

[liquidformat]

Going swordsage/cloistered cleric or even unarmed swordsage cloistered cleric is also a better approach than monk. If you want something a bit more interesting you could actually replace cleric with shaman and have the same exact build with the same domains but more focused around unarmed combat. Beast Strike is also worth taking if you want to be punching up a storm.

[Wonton64]

I looked at Swordsage and liked it, only issue being it doesn't get the free feats the Monk gets to make Sacred Fist viable for entry.

[sleepyphoenixx]

but why would it be a better martial choice than Sacred Fist, if Plant Shape is my melee bread and butter?

Because it has full BAB, d8 HD and doesn't require you to lose 2 levels of cleric progression to get all the prerequisites.
Sacred Fist on the other hand not only loses 2 levels of casting from the PrC itself but also another 2 from taking two levels of Monk.

[Wonton64]

Because it has full BAB, d8 HD and doesn't require you to lose 2 levels of cleric progression to get all the prerequisites.
Sacred Fist on the other hand not only loses 2 levels of casting from the PrC itself but also another 2 from taking two levels of Monk.

Well, yes. I should have prefaced this with the whole build being predicated on the fact that text trumps table. Sacred Fist is full casting according to text, which would end me at 17 CL and 9th level spells.

[Anthrowhale]

Have you considered Archivist instead of Cleric? You become more Int focused (good on a warforged) and gain potential access to Enhance Wild Shape which plausibly provides Ex special abilities when using Plant Shape (confirm with your DM). Also you gain potential access to a wider array of buffs, which seems nice if you are determined to not use DMM[Persist].

[liquidformat]

Have you considered Archivist instead of Cleric? You become more Int focused (good on a warforged) and gain potential access to Enhance Wild Shape which plausibly provides Ex special abilities when using Plant Shape (confirm with your DM). Also you gain potential access to a wider array of buffs, which seems nice if you are determined to not use DMM[Persist].

ignore archivist, shaman is the way to go! you don't even need to dip monk to make the build and you get an animal companion!

[AvatarVecna]

"How do I fully optimize a build with Cleric 3 casting at level 6?"

I mean...I feel like my first thought is obvious and unhelpful, but... :smalltongue:

Honestly, Cleric 5/Landforged Walker 5/[whatever advanced cleric] 10 wouldn't be awful, and if you really wanted monk stuff, you could get a good deal from self-buffing and a Monk's Belt (certainly affordable at lvl 10?). Monk 2 gives you a couple bad feats that make a bad style suck slightly less, so primarily what it's giving you is Wis to AC (belt gives that), +3 Ref, and Evasion (which self-buffing can overcome). I know you're wanting to avoid DMM Persist, but honestly level-appropriate buffs can just be applied at the start of each fight without too many slots - you won't overpower people, but you'll be able to solidly contribute.

[Wonton64]

"How do I fully optimize a build with Cleric 3 casting at level 6?"

I mean...I feel like my first thought is obvious and unhelpful, but... :smalltongue:

Honestly, Cleric 5/Landforged Walker 5/[whatever advanced cleric] 10 wouldn't be awful, and if you really wanted monk stuff, you could get a good deal from self-buffing and a Monk's Belt (certainly affordable at lvl 10?). Monk 2 gives you a couple bad feats that make a bad style suck slightly less, so primarily what it's giving you is Wis to AC (belt gives that), +3 Ref, and Evasion (which self-buffing can overcome). I know you're wanting to avoid DMM Persist, but honestly level-appropriate buffs can just be applied at the start of each fight without too many slots - you won't overpower people, but you'll be able to solidly contribute.

Monk and Sacred Fist I can give up. I guess my biggest problem is I really like the capstone Landforged Walker feature, but I don't know where to go from there. I like mixing it up in melee over straight casting, but I'm not sure how well a martial class would mesh with me being a tree...