New to 3.5 need help fleshing out a melee build. (details inside)

[freshtotheyard]

Hello,
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
I've been playing in a campaign where the first levels have passed very quickly as the intent is to get to move into higher level content for the proper portion of the game.
I've been playing a Goliath 2Fighter/2Barb and going into Crusader (primarily because of a story element where my character finds religion and i didn't want to go cleric so i felt this would fit. now i have limited game knowledge so there may be a better class out there)

I have the Shocktrooper ./ dungeoncrasher feat set and so far it has been quite fun with a few big hits but also some epic whifs.

Due to my lack of game knowledge I only know of limited options and I really only found Crusader because i googled DND 3.5 tank and i felt that it fit really nicely... I am the frontline of my party and I want to expand my tanking capability a bit more, in terms of abilities but also able to take a hit.
Is this a good choice? I only intend to take 3 levels then i have no idea how to proceed following that.
Any advice or pointers would be greatly appreciated. Please let me know if any information is missing here.

Cheers

[Buufreak]

Well. The biggest note I can give is tanking isn't much a thing in 3.5, mostly because there aren't much in the way of aggro generation, but also that shock trooper is about as opposite of tank as you can get, as it throws AC out the window.

[freshtotheyard]

That is very true.... It hadn't quite clicked until you said it like that. Still learning how the game works.
Maybe a better way of putting it is increasing my survivability?

[Buufreak]

Well, outside of AC you've got 2 things to keep you going (outside of saves vs instakills and the like). First, build some HP, because if you are just going to get hit, might as well be able to take a hit. Second, Miss Chance, because who gives a damn about AC when on top of it you are guaranteed to not get hit 20 or 50% of the time? Those are the super basics of not getting hit/killed/brutally maimed.

[Eldariel]

I'll say this: for a Dungeoncrasher, Shock Trooper isn't that much of an AC tank. That's just the charger part. Sure, you can use that, but you don't have to. And yeah, you've got a good thing going on so keep rolling with it; pushing enemies around and making them explode by pushing them to walls is about the best you can do. But yeah, Crusader is the best 3.5 class for tanking and frontlining in general, so take it ad nauseam. Again, you've got a great shell so don't worry about a thing and just roll with it. It's pretty simple and intuitive to build from there. Get something that triggers Bull Rush on attacks like Knockback [Races of Stone] (which I think you're Goliath for anyways) and you're golden.

[Falontani]

Your a goliath. Great choice. Barbarian probably means pounce, and fighter 2 means dungeoncrasher (you've said that one). You have shock trooper. So right now you are an ubercharger which is GREAT. And for level 5 you took one of the most powerful melee classes. You are in a great position.

1. You have a 10 ft reach as a "large" humanoid shaped creature (in the rules this is a "tall" creature.) This means that if you have a Reach weapon you have a 15-20 ft reach. This is very good for you.

2. Equip a Gauntlet, spiked, bladed, or otherwise. A gauntlet counts as a weapon without taking up one of your hands. This means that if someone gets past your Hafted reach (like a glaive) you can punch them with the gauntlet.

3. Knockback the feat.

If you score a hit while you are using the Power Attack feat, you can make a free bull rush attempt against the foe you hit, applying the number by which you reduced your attack roll as a bonus on the opposed Strength check (as well as on the damage you deal). If you hit with a twohanded weapon, you can apply double that number on the opposed Strength check. Unlike standard bull rush attempts, knockback attempts don't provoke attacks of opportunity, and you don't move with the enemy you knock backward. Bull rush rules can be found on page 154 of the Player's Handbook.

4. Alright so here's how we look at this. Step 1. Charge + Pounce. Swing each hit normally, apply Knockback to your final attack roll. You are still 20 ft away from your target if you failed your knockback, you are further if you knocked them back. Step 2. Someone that attempts to enter your reach provokes an attack of opportunity. Once from closing from 20 ft to 15 ft. Once from closing 15 ft to 10 ft. Once from closing 10 ft to 5 ft. And if they really have no reach (looking at you tiny halfling) once when they close from 5 ft to 0 ft. On any of these attacks of opportunity you may employ your Knockback. If they can't reach you, they can't melee you.

Enemies can't hit you in melee effectively unless they are bigger than you or have extreme reach (okay I guess if they Tumble or swarm you beyond your # of AoPs.) So next we need to protect from Ranged attacks.
Wind speeds of 51+ MPH make projectile attacks (not siege weapons) impossible. The earliest you can do this is with the spell Wind Wall, a second level Air spell, or a third level Wizard spell. Short of that we have Control Winds as a fifth level spell which is probably out of our reach.
So like Buufreak said, lets focus on % miss chance. Entropic Shield grants 20% concealment vs ranged as a first level spell. And it is on the Death Master spell list, which is an arcane spell list. Meaning you can get an Eternal Wand of Entropic Shield for 720 GP. That is 2 charges of 1 minute 20% concealment. This is good, but...
Obscuring Mist is a 1st level spell that grants 20% concealment to all creatures further than 5 ft, and 50% to all creatures further than 10 ft.
Obscuring Snow is a 2nd level spell that grants the same for 1 hour/caster level and is centered on you! But this affects you, so it might not be great. Except!
Embrace the Wild is a first level Ranger spell. For 100 GP per potion you can have Blindsight 120 ft, +4 spot, +4 listen, and low light vision for 20 minutes. Don't like potions? A custom pair of goggles could cost you a grand total of 6,000 GP, for Blindsight 120 ft, +4 spot, +4 listen, and low light vision continuously active.
Long Story Short 5. is just how magic can help you overcome your weakness to ranged attacks quite effectively.

6. Okay what's your other weakness... Spellcasters. Oh boy. Game over we can't beat that. Oh wait. Where there is a will there is a way.
Mage Slayer! Spellcasters within your reach can't cast defensively.
Supernatural Opportunist! Creatures using even supernatural abilities provoke from you. Get them outta here!
Evasion (Ring of Evasion is your best bet, but you can take a prestige class that grants it if you absolutely have to. I suggest Divine Oracle if you can swing it.
Mettle. Okay here is where we get into building your character. Options for Mettle includes

Hexblade 3, Complete Warrior
Pious Templar 1, ecl 6, Complete Divine
Vigilante 9, ecl 14, Complete Adventurer
Witch Slayer 2, ecl 7, Tome of Magic
Sohei 9
Crusader 13, Tome of Battle
Deneith Warden 5, ecl 9, Eberron: Dragonmarked
Master Specialist (abjuration) 7, ecl 10, Complete Mage - works for all saves, see text
Argent Fist 8, ecl 13, Faiths of Eberron
Hellreaver 4, ecl 9, Fiendish Codex II
Kinslayer 1, ecl ?, Drow of the Underdark
I highly suggest 4 levels in Witch Slayer regardless, but Hexblade is an easy choice (and grants arcane casting to activate Eternal Wands, as well as a familiar which with Improved Familiar is a powerful mount for you), and Pious Templar is actually a great choice as well, except its two feat requirements, however with Pious Templar you could perhaps swing into Prestige Paladin (see later). Then there is Crusader. Yea. You could just keep taking levels in crusader. You won't be disappoint.

Now Mettle and Evasion are only good with Saves. How do we boost your saves?


Paladin 2, PHB
Prestige Paladin 2, ecl 6, Unearthed Arcana
Blackguard 2, ecl 8, DMG, "dark blessing"
Hexblade 2, Complete Warrior, "arcane resistance", add Cha vs spells and spell-like effects
Nightcloak 7, ecl 12, Complete Divine Web Enhancement, add Int to saves
Holy Liberator 4, ecl 9, Complete Divine
Divine Mind 4, Complete Psionic
Corrupt Avenger 3, ecl 9, Heroes of Horror, "grim resolve"
Champion of Gwynharwyf 2, ecl 8, Book of Exalted Deeds
Slayer of Domiel 2, ecl 7, Book of Exalted Deeds


Alright, enough of this, on to possible builds:


LA +1
Goliath Barbarian 1: Power Attack, Pounce, Mountain Rage
Fighter 1: Improved Bull Rush
Fighter 2: Dungeon Crasher, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Reach Weapon (Spiked Chain is the go to, but you know you do you)
Barbarian 2
Crusader 1
Hexblade 1: Shock Trooper
Hexblade 2
Hexblade 3
Hexblade 4: Knockback
Corrupt Avenger 1
Corrupt Avenger 2
Corrupt Avenger 3: Improved Familiar
Corrupt Avenger 4
Corrupt Avenger 5
Corrupt Avenger 6: Mounted Combat
Corrupt Avenger 7
Crusader 2
Crusader 3: Mounted Fury
Crusader 4

Beginning at ECL 7 (6 HD) you can use Eternal Wands, ECL 9 you have Mettle, ECL 13 you have cha to saves and 2xCha to saves vs magic. You also gain a mount that has 50% of your HP, BAB equal to your level, shares your saves, is smarter than average, and you know could be a Hippogriff, Hell Hound, Howler, Winter Wolf, or Worg. At ECL 19 whenever you mountain rage or see your Hated Foe your mount gets to rage too! Your IL is 11 granting you access to 6th level maneuvers by the end.


LA +1
Goliath Barbarian 1: Power Attack, Pounce, Mountain Rage
Fighter 1: Improved Bull Rush
Fighter 2: Dungeon Crasher, Weapon Focus: Deity's Weapon
Barbarian 2
Crusader 1
Crusader 2: True Believer
Pious Templar 1
Pious Templar 2
Pious Templar 3: Shock Trooper
Knight of the Raven 1
Knight of the Raven 2
Knight of the Raven 3: Mounted Combat
Prestige Paladin 1
Prestige Paladin 2
Prestige Paladin 3: Skill Focus: Religion
Divine Oracle 1
Divine Oracle 2
Psychic Warrior: Knockback, Battle Blessing
Crusader 3

Beginning at ECL 8 you get Mettle, ECL 11 you get a Special Mount, ECL 12 you get cha to saves, by the end your paladin spellcasting is the equivalent of a 18th level paladin, granting you access to a paladin's most powerful spells. Basically you became a paladin through weird combinations. Your Initiator level ends up at 11 again, granting you again 6th level maneuvers, but your spellcasting is much more potent this time. And depending on your DM your mount could be pretty awesome. I don't know your setting, nor which god you have fallen in with, so I can't offer you any assistance. Your BAB took a hit this time, but you still get your fourth iterative.



LA +1
Goliath Barbarian 1: Power Attack, Pounce, Mountain Rage
Fighter 1: Improved Bull Rush
Fighter 2: Dungeon Crasher, Righteous Wrath
Barbarian 2
Crusader 1
Witch Slayer 1: Shock Trooper
Witch Slayer 2
Witch Slayer 3
Witch Slayer 4: Knight of the Stars
Champion of Gwynharwyf 1
Champion of Gwynharwyf 2
Champion of Gwynharwyf 3: Knockback
Champion of Gwynharwyf 4
Champion of Gwynharwyf 5
Champion of Gwynharwyf 6: Imperious Command
Champion of Gwynharwyf 7
Champion of Gwynharwyf 8
Champion of Gwynharwyf 9: Intimidating Rage
Champion of Gwynharwyf 10
Alright this one is much easier to look at! You've gotten Mettle, you've gotten Cha to Saves, and you've gotten something you haven't in the other ones with Fearsome Fury + Intimidating Rage + Imperious Command! Oh and you still have divine spellcasting. But your IL is 10 and you only got the first level of Crusader. So you used the same initiator stuff throughout the build. But you are great at will saves: Cha to saves, if you save against a will save you ignore whatever it was, if you failed you get to attempt another will save next round, and if you save you ignore whatever it was. But your immune to compulsions...



LA +1
Goliath Barbarian 1: Power Attack, Pounce, Mountain Rage
Fighter 1: Improved Bull Rush
Fighter 2: Dungeon Crasher, Powerful Charge
Barbarian 2
Crusader 1
Crusader 2: Shock Trooper
Crusader 3
Crusader 4
Crusader 5: Knockback
Crusader 6
Crusader 7
Crusader 8: Cleave
Crusader 9
Crusader 10
Crusader 11: Improved Sunder
Crusader 12
Crusader 13
Crusader 14: Combat Brute
War Hulk 1
Errr.... Oops. IL 17 means the most powerful Maneuvers available. You got all the Ubercharging stuff. You missed out on Cha to saves, but you have Mettle. And you know what. Your a beast. I wish this wasn't the most powerful option, but it is. Which is sad because all the other builds required more work, and are more enjoyable to me. But I'll be honest. This is your best path. Combat Brute is specifically to target enemy holy symbols and spell component pouches. Try not to smash all the treasure. But you know. You can. You just go in like a wrecking *ahem*. Yup. There you go. Run Wild.

[ixrisor]

Goliaths aren’t large, they’re medium creatures that count as large for certain things, so they only have 5ft reach

[Falontani]

Goliaths aren’t large, they’re medium creatures that count as large for certain things, so they only have 5ft reach

True
Powerful Build: {Scrubbed}



Mountain Rage (Ex): {Scrubbed} When he rages, his size category increases
to Large. {Scrubbed}.
But his mountain rage still makes him large