Wizard actions per round

[Biggus]

In this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?361866-Is-Wings-of-Cover-OP) old thread (Un)Inspired said "by 11th level a wizard gets to take essentially as many actions as he wants". Is this hyperbole or am I missing something?

You get one standard action or full-round action per round

You get one quickened or swift or immediate action spell per round

Imbue Familiar With Spell Ability can get you another one

A Belt of Battle gets you another, but that's only once a day (except move actions) and an 11th-level PC can't afford more than 2 or 3 of them (not if they want other important items like Intelligence boosters, anyway)

After that I'm struggling. Any idea what he meant?

EDIT: to clarify, it's specifically spells per round that was being discussed, not other types of actions.

EDIT 2: to further clarify, I know there are plenty of options to get lots of extra actions at level 17+, I was specifically asking how this was possible as early as level 11.

[Esquire]

It's a reference to the chain of RAW abuses access to Planar Binding allows - you can bind an efreet, they have Wish, things go as you might expect. From there, access to time-accelerated demiplanes, various temporal-manipulation magics, etc. are all just laying around on the table.

[Gnaeus]

Although there are less TO ways. Planar binding for wish loops is usually frowned upon. But you could planar bind for half a dozen minions, to go with your dominated minions, skeletal minions, golem minions, familiar using wand, summoned monsters, etc. not as many as you want but a lot of actions.

[sleepyphoenixx]

There's also Contingency and Celerity for extra actions.
You could conceivably cast 4 spells per round (not counting familiars and minions) with your standard action, triggering a belt of battle, triggering contingency and immediately after your turn cast Celerity.
And that's before factoring in Polymorph/ASA shenanigans, having levels in War Weaver or Swiftblade or psionic theurges.

[Biggus]

It's a reference to the chain of RAW abuses access to Planar Binding allows - you can bind an efreet, they have Wish, things go as you might expect. From there, access to time-accelerated demiplanes, various temporal-manipulation magics, etc. are all just laying around on the table.

Ah, I thought it might be something along those lines but I didn't know the specific spell he was referring to, thank you. Can't see many DMs allowing it, but yeah it's RAW.


Although there are less TO ways. Planar binding for wish loops is usually frowned upon. But you could planar bind for half a dozen minions, to go with your dominated minions, skeletal minions, golem minions, familiar using wand, summoned monsters, etc. not as many as you want but a lot of actions.

The original discussion related to getting lots and lots of spells per round, I should have made that clearer. I had thought of Summon Monster and undead minions, but I couldn't see anything there which could cast spells (Dominate Person is a good point though, I'd forgotten about that).


There's also Contingency and Celerity for extra actions.
You could conceivably cast 4 spells per round (not counting familiars and minions) with your standard action, triggering a belt of battle, triggering contingency and immediately after your turn cast Celerity.
And that's before factoring in Polymorph/ASA shenanigans, having levels in War Weaver or Swiftblade or psionic theurges.

ASA?

[Segev]

Having a few simulacra of yourself around can essentially give you more spells per round, albeit of half your level in effectiveness and max level.

[Biggus]

Having a few simulacra of yourself around can essentially give you more spells per round, albeit of half your level in effectiveness and max level.

True, that's not available until level 13 though. At very high levels there are plenty of ways (Time Stop, Summon Monster IX for a Couatl, Multispell when you reach epic levels, etc) but I was struggling to think of ways which come online by level 11.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

ASA?The Assume Supernatural Ability feat.

Polymorph into a choker and take ASA for an extra standard action every round.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I had thought of Summon Monster and undead minions, but I couldn't see anything there which could cast spells (Dominate Person is a good point though, I'd forgotten about that).

Summon Monster offers a large amount of SLA's though, from about 3rd level on. And other special abilities you don't have easy access to.
You can get pretty much anything from blasting, debuffs, BFC to divinations to healing, curing, buffing and even Raise Dead at SM 7. Usually at low DC, but for quite a few spells that doesn't matter.

As for outright spellcasting the first is Aartaglith (SM 6, cleric 5) and the Lillend (SM 8, bard 6), which is rather underwhelming.
It only gets better at SM 9 with the Couatl (sorc 9), Ursinal Guardinal (wiz 12), and Firre Eladrin (cleric 12).

But mostly it's the SLA's.

Edit: The Summoner's Desk Reference (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?255219-The-Summoner-s-Desk-Reference-D-amp-D-3-5) has them listed by level if you're curious.

For undead you can get good spellcasting if you can get the right corpses and apply the right template, but that usually requires rebuke/command to control them unless you use Animate Dread Warrior on a non-int caster.

[Lans]

Explosive runes is a thing also

[Biggus]

The Assume Supernatural Ability feat.

Polymorph into a choker and take ASA for an extra standard action every round.

Ah I see, thank you.


Summon Monster offers a large amount of SLA's though, from about 3rd level on. And other special abilities you don't have easy access to.
You can get pretty much anything from blasting, debuffs, BFC to divinations to healing, curing, buffing and even Raise Dead at SM 7. Usually at low DC, but for quite a few spells that doesn't matter.

As for outright spellcasting the first is Aartaglith (SM 6, cleric 5) and the Lillend (SM 8, bard 6), which is rather underwhelming.
It only gets better at SM 9 with the Couatl (sorc 9), Ursinal Guardinal (wiz 12), and Firre Eladrin (cleric 12).

But mostly it's the SLA's.

Edit: The Summoner's Desk Reference (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?255219-The-Summoner-s-Desk-Reference-D-amp-D-3-5) has them listed by level if you're curious.

I was only looking at the creatures listed in the PHB, thanks for the link to the handbook.



For undead you can get good spellcasting if you can get the right corpses and apply the right template, but that usually requires rebuke/command to control them unless you use Animate Dread Warrior on a non-int caster.

What corpses and templates are those?

[sleepyphoenixx]

What corpses and templates are those?
As corpses for spellcasting undead you generally want creatures with spellcaster levels or good innate casting with few HD (like a nymph with 7th level druid casting at 6 HD).

I already mentioned Animate Dread Warrior (UE). It has a hefty int penalty but the undead keeps all other class abilities, so it works fine with any wis- or cha-based casters and manifesters.
Or pretty much anything martial or rogue-like. Also comes with automatic control as a nice bonus. Only works on humanoids with at least three class levels.

The other options are templates. Curst and Spectral Mage (both MoF) are both available via Create Greater Undead.
Curst is pretty good for every class, spectral mage is good for casters and makes them incorporeal (among other stuff).
The drawback is that you don't have control of them, and with casters getting high will saves Command Undead isn't really a reliable option. The best option for control is rebuke/command undead, but that's hard to get on an arcane caster and even a divine caster needs to invest a bit of gold to keep his commanded undead level appropriate.

There's also a special template for bard corpses in Ghostwalk which is pretty good with the same drawbacks.

The other drawback of all of those is of course getting the corpses.
Unless your DM lets you fight NPCs with (useful) class levels you're going to have to get creative to get good base material to work with.
Which shouldn't be too much of an issue for for a (presumably evil) necromancer, but it's still worth mentioning.

[Asmotherion]

In this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?361866-Is-Wings-of-Cover-OP) old thread (Un)Inspired said "by 11th level a wizard gets to take essentially as many actions as he wants". Is this hyperbole or am I missing something?

You get one standard action or full-round action per round

You get one quickened or swift or immediate action spell per round

Imbue Familiar With Spell Ability can get you another one

A Belt of Battle gets you another, but that's only once a day (except move actions) and an 11th-level PC can't afford more than 2 or 3 of them (not if they want other important items like Intelligence boosters, anyway)

After that I'm struggling. Any idea what he meant?

EDIT: to clarify, it's specifically spells per round that was being discussed, not other types of actions.

a combination of celerity and a persistant time stop through alternative metamagic payment essentially means yes, a Wizard can cast an abundance of spells, rest, prepare new ones and rince-repeat any moment they want.

Or shapechange into a nagahydra/chronotyrin.

[Biggus]

a combination of celerity and a persistant time stop through alternative metamagic payment essentially means yes, a Wizard can cast an abundance of spells, rest, prepare new ones and rince-repeat any moment they want.

The trouble with persistent Time Stop is, while there's no doubt that it works by RAW, there's also absolutely nothing to say how it works by RAW. For one thing, it doesn't state how much faster than normal you are moving. The DM's perfectly within their rights to say "you can have as many actions as you like for the next half an hour. Then you die of old age".



Or shapechange into a nagahydra/chronotyrin.

Shapechange (and Time Stop for that matter) don't become available until level 17. As I said earlier in the thread, I there are lots of options when you reach very high levels, I was specifically interested in how you could get unlimited actions as early as level 11.