Clerics as paragons of given deities - how do you make them work?

[DarkOne-Rob]

Greetings, Playground-ers!

So, I have it in my head that the various PF divine classes each have generalized roles in their churches as follows:

[No Divine spellcasting power] - worshipers and possibly like a deacon or elder, but never clergy
Adepts - lowest caste of the clergy, usually lack the ambition to build a flock but capable of leading a small congregation
Paladins/War-Priests - the offensive arm of the church
Inquisitors - behind the scenes, rarely (if ever) in the spotlight
Clerics - the exemplars/paragons of their deity, demonstrating the earthly example of what their deity is about to the utmost
For some churches this works really well - war gods, some magic-focused deities, well-organized (Lawful) deities about community/agriculture/etc... However, for others it really doesn't work easily.

The best example I have of it not working easily is Calistria (other skill-based deities are similarly difficult). Many of the Cleric Guides out there look at the Trickery Domain, for example, and describe it in glowing terms for the domain powers and spells. Most, however, warn against trying to use the free class skills on a class with only 2+Int skill points in the chasis. This concern is totally legitimate, since without the skill points to support additional class skills, most PC clerics either fail at their "primary" skills in a party or won't have the skill points to take advantage of these new class skills and don't get to use them at all (especially if you have a well-built Rogue or Bard in the party).

Without resorting to 3rd party or homebrew, how have any of you built effective, exemplary (of their deity) clerics of trickster deities and such? As an example, I am applying to a game with Lillian (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2099213), who may be able to pull this off due to a very high point buy total (36 points in PF) and eventually taking the PrCs of Evangelist and Enchanting Courtesan. The PC would lose a total of two casting levels over the course of twenty character levels, but I think she could sort of pull it off. It isn't hard to lose the 9th level spells, play an inquisitor, and make that work, but I am specifically curious how people have made their clerics work for this (so please don't just say, "play an Inquisitor" - I've already considered that option extensively and wish to be challenged a bit to achieve the standards I outlined above).

So, how have you done it?

[Psyren]

Two things:

1) You forgot Oracles, whereby a deity can (through caprice, perceived necessity, or even sheer accident) sidestep their churches' hierarchy and the need for piety entirely. Though Oracles don't have to be tied to deities any more than paladins do, in Golarion most of them are, and they tend to be more skilled than clerics and warpriests. Calisitria in particular is the kind of deity that would make a bunch of oracles without particularly caring about the chaos her "favor" might cause within her church (or anyone else's for that matter.)

2) There are actually several potential answers to your question (i.e. what thematically appropriate options are there for skillful clerics). I've listed a bunch of them below:

a) Evangelist - as you mentioned, this is a great way to represent "my character is dedicated to this deity's goals and outlook" without pigeonholing yourself into a standard cleric mold. On top of being able to advance cleric (and indeed any other class in the game) and getting divine boons from their deity, Evangelists also get a meaty 6+Int skill points to let you easily fill a skillmonkey role and better serve a deity who values trickery, knowledge, or social acumen.

b) Archetypes - If you want a skillful cleric, there are archetypes that help with that; the most notable one is probably Cardinal, and it wouldn't surprise me if the trickster deities encouraged the pursuit of archetypes like this among their faithful.

c) Multiclassing - while it's not as popular as it was in 3.5 for mechanical reasons, it's still an option for clerics of a particular deity. I would wager that Calistria would actually look just as favorably on her followers that splashed a bit of rogue or bard into their builds than those who dedicated themselves to full-on piety to her.

d) Variant Multiclassing - Same as above only less mechanical impact. Doesn't help the skills side of the equation as much but it does let you add fitting class features to your cleric to represent them keeping up with both their religious and streetwise training.

e) Race, Feats and Traits - If you want to stay a base cleric and don't find any of the options above palatable, you can use feats (notably Cunning), traits, and racials to get the most bang for your buck with the skill ranks you do have. Be a human for example or a half-elf with Human Spirit. Traits allow you to cheaply add various skills as class skills for that free +3 untyped bonus, and in most cases, a +1 trait bonus that is helpful early on and stacks with most other sources of skill bonuses.

f) Spells and Items - When it comes down to it, clerics are a powerful class even with no chassis help at all. You don't need Disable Device to deal with many traps for example, a Find Traps spell and some summons or dispel magic can do the trick too. You have several ways to add value to a party that has no "skillmonkey" at all.

[DarkOne-Rob]

1) You forgot Oracles...
How could I forget Oracles! Wow!

You make some excellent points. I don't think they counter my desire to have a Cleric capable of being the paragon, but an Oracle could certainly be a paragon too...and possibly easier...


2)Evangelist
Archetypes (Cardinal)
Multiclassing(Rogue or Bard)
Variant Multiclassing
Race, Feats and Traits
Spells and Items
Also all good points. I decided against any of the archetypes that add to skills per level because they all cost either spells per day or a domain. They could all be legitimate choices, though.

Multiclassing is similar to using a PrC like Evangelist, IMO, only with the added loss of spell levels.

The idea of VMC isn't bad, but in this case doesn't help address the skill points. I can certainly see it working with different deities, though.

I used several traits to make Lillian, but was unaware of the Cunning feat - thanks for that!

And yeah, spells work once they come online - for example, Find Traps won't be available until level 3.