Optimizing the Ranger?

[bendking]

As we all know, Ranger isn't exactly what you'd call "good" from a purely mechanical point of view.
And yet, I'm curious, is there any way to optimize the hell out of the Ranger? Recent UA and multiclass included, outside of the tired Gloom Stalker/Assassin build.

[Man_Over_Game]

As we all know, Ranger isn't exactly what you'd call "good" from a purely mechanical point of view.
And yet, I'm curious, is there any way to optimize the hell out of the Ranger? Recent UA and multiclass included, outside of the tired Gloom Stalker/Assassin build.

There's a few.

You could pick up three levels into Land Druid-Coast, so that you have plenty of spell slots to fuel your attack riders, as well as two great combat spells from Coast.

Gloomstalker + Sharpshooter + Crossbow Expert + Hunter's Mark. More turn 1 burst than other builds.

Horizon Walker with Whip, throwing knives, shield, and Dueler fighting style. Teleport around and land extra attacks as you flank around enemies and abuse your bonus action force damage with mid-range weapons.

You can use attack buffs to upgrade your Hunter special AoE attacks.

[djreynolds]

The ranger is really a good class

There is a thread talking about how powerful ranged attacks are... to included how much less healing you need.

A 14 in dex and scale mail is as good as chainmail, and if you buy breastplate you can stealth with this.

The ranger is great at softening up multiple foes.... well before the melee types get there.

A ranger can stealth and scout, and attack foes from a distance. A rogue can do this and sneak attack.... but if they miss no good, and once they shoot now they have to succeed on a hide attempt to gain advantage so they can sneak attack again. Hiding in combat does not always work.

The UA stuff has some goodies

Concentration free hunter's mark.... hail of thorns at 2nd level is 1d10 to anyone with in 5ft... the ones you just snuck up on, that's possibly 5 enemy.

The free spell now for primal awareness is pretty good and cover a good amount.

Ranger and rogue go very well together

[Dork_Forge]

Gloom Stalker + Battler Master makes a great SS hXB build, for more prolonged combats stacking the Monster Hunter's ability and Hunter's Mark can be brutal (and since UA is on the table I guess you could take MI Hex and stack for 3d6 rider damage).

[ccjmk]

I made a post in reddit a while ago about a WIStalker with the Class Features UA content: essentially, the good-old Shillelagh ranger, profiting from the fact that Gloomstalker is the subclass that probably benefits the most from WIS, and does not add bonus action stuff.

I originally concocted it as a vuman with Polearm Master (as a quarterstaff qualifies, so you can use your BA on that), but after some thought, I think I would use a hill dwarf instead; the CON and extra HP are great, and you will still be using your BA for Hunter's Mark a lot, so polearm master benefits dilude quite a lot.

You have 3 ways of getting shillelagh - through Magic Initiate (vuman would again be best then, but I can't decide a meaningful 1st level spell to cast 1/long rest only), through a 1 level multiclass into druid or at 2nd level with the new UA fighting style. If you are starting this PC from 1st level, I'd pick the druid one, so I can have shillelagh since the very beginning, and switch immediately to Ranger, and just pick Dueling fighting style.

If you are starting at higher levels, I'd probably use one level of fighter instead; proficiencies are not what we are after so I wouldn't care on the order, but Second wind is still a great bonus action to have available, and you just pick Dueling with the fighter style, and the druid cantrips with the Ranger style.

You will end up being the most spellcastiest ranger out there with all those new free spells and the cantrips, maxing your WIS will make your spell DC not crap, WIS is the best saving throw (and gloomstalker eventually gets it as 3rd proficiency), gloomstalkers add it to their Initiative too, and with 14 dex, medium armor and shield you have more than enough AC, plus the CON and extra HP of a hill dwarf.

[djreynolds]

IMO a ranger is a ranger at 11th level.

I don't mean to be silly, but this level defines the fighter with three attacks, paladin with improved divine smite, barbarian gets relentless rage, but rangers get stuff based on archetypes

beastmaster gets bestial fury
hunter can get volley/whirlwind (this would be better if you could use either one)
GS gets stalkers fury
HW gets distant strike
MS gets relentless slayer

The question is do these scream wow?

Otherwise, were really just grabbing maybe 9 levels for that 3rd level spell access or maybe 7 for gloom stalker for wisdom saves, etc.

And so its either 11 levels of fighter with some ranger and rogue

Or at least 5 levels of ranger for 2 attacks and something extra

I think it really depends the direction a ranger goes,

Dex based would do well to grab a level of rogue and even monk just for instant goodies,

A strength based might look into select clerics for heavy armor, or begin fighter.

A case can be made for barbarian, but really if you just leave dex at 14 for medium armor so you can rage

[ZorroGames]

Treantmonk has several YouTube videos on rangers including one I just watched on 20 levels of Beast Master strength based making a good if not “WOW, gee-whiz” Character.

Before anyone starts the Mantra “Beast Masters are the worst” I just going to paraphrase Mark Twain, There are three kinds of myths - Myths, Internet Myths, and “Everybody knows” myths. Trying running the numbers and using better tactics than many people do before you dismiss the subclass. Best? The numbers do not support that, better than favorite other classes yes.

[MrStabby]

I think that getting the best out of the ranger is as much about picking the right campaign as it is about getting the right build.

1) Level range. At low levels ranger is able to output comparable damage to other classes.

2) style of game. Ranger at low levels is ok at damage. If you play a game that is combat focussed and damage is important, then a ranger can be good.

3) a game with just enough wilderness/survival/skills that the ranger isn't inferior to a fighter but not so much that casters feel they should invest in the spells that obviate these skills.

Rangers can be great in some parties. With a heavy armoured melee fighter and two barbarians a ranger can bring stealth, range and some good extra skills that wont be superseeded by spells if there is a need.

My preferred build is to add cleric, as much for RP as anything. Forge is probably my pick at the moment, especially if you can use the heavy armour through being strength focussed or a dwarf.

Ranger is good for getting out of though. Dex and Wis are great stats to have high and it supports taking rogue, cleric, druid, monk classes.

Though the core ranger is a bit lacking the subclasses have some great stuff. Gloomstalker early, monster Hunter and horizon walker a bit later. Level 11 is quite some time to wait to get something cool.

Monster Hunter is pretty interesting. For a game going past 11 I would consider ranger a relatively weak class, however the monster Hunter abilities
At high levels are sufficiently good in certain campaigns that they are worth a look.

[djreynolds]

Another great thing about a ranger, is at any point they can ditch the bow and go rapier and shield or scimitar and shield and mix it up in melee.

Bladesinger can do this, but their still a d6 HP and the shield spell becomes expensive. A ranger is still d10 HP.

Cleric and rogue are always welcome additions.

[HiveStriker]

As we all know, Ranger isn't exactly what you'd call "good" from a purely mechanical point of view.
And yet, I'm curious, is there any way to optimize the hell out of the Ranger? Recent UA and multiclass included, outside of the tired Gloom Stalker/Assassin build.
Hi!

First, disclaimer. I strongly disagree on the bolded assertion. Nevertheless, that's not the point of the thread so I'll put it aside. :)

So, "optimizing"...
1. Pure class: there is not actually much to say: you can push it in several directions depending on your taste, the main thing to not fail upon is spell choice, but even that is easy: Goodberry, Zephyr's Strike, Hunter's Mark, Pass Without Trace, Healing Spirit, Conjure Animals are the staples ones. Beyond that is dependant on your focus.

1. Hunter: melee -> ask DM for houserule on Whirlwind to get "reach" if possible, otherwise Volley is the better choice. Note: RAW formulation is ambiguous enough that your DM may allow it to work with thrown weapons provided you have a stack of it.
STR: pick Horde Breaker, Multiattack Defense, Volley, Stand Against the Tide or Uncanny Dodge. Get Magic Initiate to grab Booming Blade or simply Sentinel, any other defensive feat (Tough, Resilient). That's about it. ^^ You'll be a pretty decent secondary tank against dangerous foes. Keep Zephyr's Strike to escape from hordes as needed. At highest level if source allowed grab the one that makes you like a Treant.
DEX: pick Horde Breaker, Escape The Horde, Volley, Evasion, play as a skirmisher. Pick Moble and Mage Slayer, possibly Sharpshooter if you'd like to be perfectly versatile.

2. Gloomstalker, Horizon Walker, Monster Slayer: don't remember well, not sure there is much innovation space besides some specific spells.

3. Beastmaster: 100% optimization will require a small race and other specifics. Otherwise, simply grab Healer and Inspiring Leader feat if you don't want to use your slots on Healing Spirit and the like, or Mage Initiate to slightly buff your pet with Mage Armor.

I probably missed some things, sorry I'm reaally tired right now so brain not straight. ^^

Multiclasses
1. Enhance spellcasting "in general": Sorcerer is great here for the metamagic: the MADness is heavily compensated by the ability to optimize your spell consumption and make some spells last much longer (notably Pass Without Trace, Conjure Animals, Healing Spirit).
Warlock can make an equally good case for himself if there is a particular spell of 1-5th level you want to use very regularly and can spare a short rest.
More generally, any levels from 2 to 9 of any caster is great.
2. Enhance a particular strength of Ranger:
- Healing: Life Cleric.
- Martial: Elemental Weapon for a Volley Hunter, Shadow Blade on any melee, Fighting Style.
- Resilience (Hunter): any caster with defensive spells (Sorcerer better for spell conversion), or Barbarian (and pick non-concentration buffs like Longstrider or simply keep spells for non-combat).
- AOE damage: Tempest Cleric + Lighting Arrow is neat.
- Regular damage: Rogue is an obvious one, especially on a Gloomstalker. Monk is the other obvious one, especially for the skirmisher type (mobility) or the tanky type (Dodge as bonus action).
- Pet (Beastmaster): Sorcerer and Cleric are the obvious ones for a 5-level multiclass, to grab great buffs to set with Share Spells.

...
Sorry brain really out, ideas fleeting. Maybe search forum with "multiclass Ranger" words, you will probably find interesting builds. :=)

[SpawnOfMorbo]

As we all know, Ranger isn't exactly what you'd call "good" from a purely mechanical point of view.
And yet, I'm curious, is there any way to optimize the hell out of the Ranger? Recent UA and multiclass included, outside of the tired Gloom Stalker/Assassin build.

The Ranger makes a great grappler.

One of the best, really, because you can get some neat tools to enhance your ability to drag enemies away from allies.

Stranger Danger

Make a Str based Ranger (thus the stranger)

d10 HD

Grab prodigy via human or half-orc (half-elf is a less desirable race but that works too). Boost that Athletics check.

You don't really need the grapple feat, but tavern brawler works rather well with this build. Mobile is also an excellent feat for this build. With Prodigy you can keep your Str at a 16 and have a crazy high Athletics check.

Tactics: Not only can you grab an enemy and pull them away from the party mage, you can actually pull them to an ally. They won't provoke, yes, but the enemy now can't leave your ally and you without provoking. If they do decide to disengage, run up to them and grab them again and pull them back. Additionally, you can use your summons to help you grapple if you think your massive athletics check won't be good enough or you have disadvantage on the check.

Yeah, this isn't about direct damage but you will be helping your allies.

One of my favorite RP for this build is to view the party members as gods/demi gods/lords/whatever and bring enemies to them to sacrifice. Suggest every weapon user take the grappler feat or just use a lot of help actions.

[MrStabby]

Hi!

2. Enhance a particular strength of Ranger:
- Healing: Life Cleric.
- Martial: Elemental Weapon for a Volley Hunter, Shadow Blade on any melee, Fighting Style.
- Resilience (Hunter): any caster with defensive spells (Sorcerer better for spell conversion), or Barbarian (and pick non-concentration buffs like Longstrider or simply keep spells for non-combat).
- AOE damage: Tempest Cleric + Lighting Arrow is neat.
- Regular damage: Rogue is an obvious one, especially on a Gloomstalker. Monk is the other obvious one, especially for the skirmisher type (mobility) or the tanky type (Dodge as bonus action).
- Pet (Beastmaster): Sorcerer and Cleric are the obvious ones for a 5-level multiclass, to grab great buffs to set with Share Spells.


I wander if you are wanting to build on the spell sharing theme if Paladin would be better? Smites are good and things like Conquest with Armour of Agathys could be quite nice. Trouble is the requirements for multiclassing. Still... standard human might let you pull it off. With beast and find stead you are bringing a bit of a crowd.

OK, screw that - hexblade does it better. Single stat, lots of other abilities, more spell slots for your abilities and gives you the best smites and Armour of Agathys.

[HiveStriker]

The Ranger makes a great grappler.

One of the best, really, because you can get some neat tools to enhance your ability to drag enemies away from allies.

Stranger Danger

Make a Str based Ranger (thus the stranger)

d10 HD

Grab prodigy via human or half-orc (half-elf is a less desirable race but that works too). Boost that Athletics check.

You don't really need the grapple feat, but tavern brawler works rather well with this build. Mobile is also an excellent feat for this build. With Prodigy you can keep your Str at a 16 and have a crazy high Athletics check.

Tactics: Not only can you grab an enemy and pull them away from the party mage, you can actually pull them to an ally. They won't provoke, yes, but the enemy now can't leave your ally and you without provoking. If they do decide to disengage, run up to them and grab them again and pull them back. Additionally, you can use your summons to help you grapple if you think your massive athletics check won't be good enough or you have disadvantage on the check.

Yeah, this isn't about direct damage but you will be helping your allies.

One of my favorite RP for this build is to view the party members as gods/demi gods/lords/whatever and bring enemies to them to sacrifice. Suggest every weapon user take the grappler feat or just use a lot of help actions.
Yeah, that's the one I forgot... Longstrider + Mobile + Spike Growth can be great.
You could even cheese the thing IF DM allows (and gives you the opportunity) to have a Familiar attune to a Ring of Spell Storing... Then the Ranger archetype with Haste will make you crazy good.

Apart from that very particular idea though, I'd say Grappler may or not be necessary, depending mainly on whether your grapple tactics rely mainly on coordinated movement (= you don't expect to make attacks whenever you're grappling, example you grapple two guys at once towards friends / AOE ^^) or if on the contrary you want to play a duelist skirmisher (extract one guy and isolate him from its friends while you wack him).
For example, as a Ranger with two+ levels in Rogue for Cunning Action, you may still grab Magic Initiate and to deal good damage while creating a catch-22 with Booming Blade: turn 1 make a weapon attack to Grapple, whack him decent with second attack with Sneak Attack, while using bonus action Dash to put him as far as possible from allies. Next turn, use Booming Blade then disengage as a bonus action. :)

OR: simply use "debuffs on weapon attacks" such as Ranger's own Ensnaring Strike or a Warlock/Bard's (MS) smite spells. Here too you'd like to make everything in your single turn so "auto-advantage" helps.

There are many ways to Grapple. :)


I wander if you are wanting to build on the spell sharing theme if Paladin would be better? Smites are good and things like Conquest with Armour of Agathys could be quite nice. Trouble is the requirements for multiclassing. Still... standard human might let you pull it off. With beast and find stead you are bringing a bit of a crowd.

OK, screw that - hexblade does it better. Single stat, lots of other abilities, more spell slots for your abilities and gives you the best smites and Armour of Agathys.
Indeed. :) Paladin does bring many good things, but the MADness is tough to bear. :)

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Yeah, that's the one I forgot... Longstrider + Mobile + Spike Growth can be great.
You could even cheese the thing IF DM allows (and gives you the opportunity) to have a Familiar attune to a Ring of Spell Storing... Then the Ranger archetype with Haste will make you crazy good.

Apart from that very particular idea though, I'd say Grappler may or not be necessary, depending mainly on whether your grapple tactics rely mainly on coordinated movement (= you don't expect to make attacks whenever you're grappling, example you grapple two guys at once towards friends / AOE ^^) or if on the contrary you want to play a duelist skirmisher (extract one guy and isolate him from its friends while you wack him).
For example, as a Ranger with two+ levels in Rogue for Cunning Action, you may still grab Magic Initiate and to deal good damage while creating a catch-22 with Booming Blade: turn 1 make a weapon attack to Grapple, whack him decent with second attack with Sneak Attack, while using bonus action Dash to put him as far as possible from allies. Next turn, use Booming Blade then disengage as a bonus action. :)

OR: simply use "debuffs on weapon attacks" such as Ranger's own Ensnaring Strike or a Warlock/Bard's (MS) smite spells. Here too you'd like to make everything in your single turn so "auto-advantage" helps.

There are many ways to Grapple. :)


Indeed. :) Paladin does bring many good things, but the MADness is tough to bear. :)

Pinning the last one, two, or three creature makes the end of battle go by pretty fast. Restrained doesn't suck too much for you, advantage and disadvantage cancel out. But for all your allies, they get advantage on their attacks, the creature has disadvantage on attacking, and they have disadvantage on dex saves...

I've seen plenty of bosses get hosed by a grappler that pinned them. They typically just give up at that point.

I prefer a Rogue for a grappler build. But the Ranger has their own special mix on it.