Creating a Skyrim battle mage in 5e

[Jaryn]

Hey all, I'm enjoying playing Skyrim at the moment (late to the party, I know) and am wondering how it would be possible to best create a similar kind of character in DnD.

I would be looking to wear heavy armour but make extensive use of evocation magic to destroy my enemies, as well as have access to generically useful utility spells. If people get too close, Ideally I would also be able to do some healing/warding.

It feels like wizard (evoker or war wizard?) would be the way forward, either with a level of fighter or a cleric domain that gives access to heavy armour and martial weapons. The latter might involve serious MADness though. I have no idea how to do sensible stats using point buy either! Any ideas much appreciated, although this is only really a thought experiment 🙂

[RogueJK]

A basic fighter/wizard "battle mage" is relatively easy to build.

If you want more fighting than spellcasting, the Fighter subclass Eldritch Knight fits the bill. You get Second Wind for some self-healing, heavy armor and martial weapons, full Fighter attack progression and abilities, and Evocation/Abjuration spellcasting. Take the Ritual Caster (Wizard) feat for access to a bunch of utility spells. Use a Greatsword, so you always have a hand free for spellcasting.

Otherwise, if you want to focus more on spellcasting than fighting, start with 1 level of Fighter for CON save proficiency, armor/weapon proficiency, and Second Wind, and then go all the rest in either War Mage, Abjuration, or Evocation Wizard. You can cast a lot more spells than an Eldritch Knight, but you will have only one melee attack per round, so use Booming Blade and/or Green Flame Blade to boost the damage of your lone melee attack. You won't need the Ritual Caster feat, since you'll get Wizard rituals from your Wizard levels. So take something like Warcaster instead, to still be able to cast spells while wielding a sword and shield.

Either way, point buy would look something like:

Variant Human
STR 15+1
DEX 8
CON 14
INT 15+1
WIS 10
CHA 8

Take Ritual Caster (Wizard) or War Caster at Level 1, then alternate your ASIs going +2 STR and +2 INT until both are 20 by Level 12. After that, put your remaining ASIs into CON.


However, there are a number of good ways to accomplish the more generalized "spellcaster who can also wear heavy armor and fight in melee" concept, many of which are capable of being even more effective than the above.

Paladin 2/Sorcerer X is a very popular option. Melee, heavy armor, nearly full spellcasting, and SMITES. Paladin 6/Sorcerer X is even more effective in melee, at the cost of some spellcasting ability.

Hexblade Pact of the Blade Warlock with a 1 level Fighter dip or 2 level Paladin dip is a good option too. You won't have to worry about STR as much, and can focus more on CHA and CON.

Even a Bard with a dip into Fighter, Paladin, or some type of Heavy Armor Cleric can also suffice. Not as "blasty" a caster option, but potentially more versatile, with a wider range of healing, buff/debuff, and control spells than a Wizard/Sorcerer/Warlock.

If you're not married to it specifically being some flavor of arcane caster, many Clerics can both sling offensive spells as well as fight effectively in melee in heavy armor, especially Tempest Clerics.

And a Tempest Cleric 2/Storm Sorcerer X is a powerful lightning spell blaster, who retains the ability to fight on the front lines in heavy armor and martial weapons, when desired.

[bendking]

How much do you want to cast and how much do you want to attack?

Other than this preliminary question, I have two suggestions for you:
LudicSavant's Frontliner Arcana Cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23794664&postcount=1) for more of a support role, and my own Tempest Sorcerer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24325811&postcount=300) for more of a blasting role. Admittedly, you won't get much utility spells with my build, but you can stick Ritual Caster in there if you really want to. You have the 13 WIS for it.
You could also do Ludic's Hobgoblin Iron Wizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23837856&postcount=45) if you really want to play a Wizard and be tankiest tank of them all.

[Jaryn]

Hmm, good question about the mix of blasty to close combat. I think I'd lean on the side of blasty, with being ok at chat if necessary, otherwise Eldritch Knight would fulfil the other role perfectly.

Hobgoblin Iron Wizard and Arcana Front Liner are both very strong, but not plate mail wearers.

Tempest cleric sorcerers are very interesting to me though, especially if you add on ritual caster. That might do it! Sorcadins also a good point - can't believe I didn't think of that!

[Seekergeek]

The tempest cleric/sorcerer has become even more delightful if the variant class features ua is allowed at your table. There’s a new metamagic in there allowing for energy substitution on spells. Lightning ball, anyone?

[Seclora]

You know, replace Hobgoblin with Mountain Dwarf and you could get that Heavy Armor Proficiency out of their racial Medium Armor Proficiency. It sets you back a little on Intelligence, but it does let you feat into Heavy armor a level 4.

That said, tempest Cleric is probably the most clear cut version of battlemage I can think of.

[Sigreid]

I'm going to go a different direction here and say hexblade warlock bladelock variant human with the heavily armored feat as your starting feat.

[RogueJK]

I'm going to go a different direction here and say hexblade warlock bladelock variant human with the heavily armored feat as your starting feat.

A pretty good option.

Compared to 1 level of Fighter, you're missing out on CON save proficiency for Concentration, and a Fighting Style, plus a little bit of low level healing from Second Wind. But you're not having to slightly delay your Warlock progression. And if you're starting play at Level 1, you get to be a Warlock in Heavy Armor from the get-go.

Using the VHuman 1st level feat for Heavily Armored is also an option for some of the Cleric subclasses that don't grant heavy armor proficiency, like the previously mentioned Arcana Cleric. An Arcana Cleric could potentially benefit from heavy armor, since they can be built into a decent melee Cleric thanks to their access to the arcane Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade cantrips plus eventual WIS MOD bonus to those melee cantrips.

[Sigreid]

A pretty good option.

Compared to 1 level of Fighter, you're missing out on CON save proficiency for Concentration, and a Fighting Style, plus a little bit of low level healing from Second Wind. But you're not having to slightly delay your Warlock progression. And if you're starting play at Level 1, you get to be a Warlock in Heavy Armor from the get-go.

Also an option for some of the Cleric subclasses that don't grant heavy armor proficiency, like the previously mentioned Arcana Cleric.

Thinking about it, with the improved pact weapon invocation you even have a suitable stand in for the bound weapon spells. The ability that lets you bind a slain opponent's soul as a temporary servant is a good conjuration stand in. The only thing it's really lacking is healing.

[RogueJK]

Thinking about it, with the improved pact weapon invocation you even have a suitable stand in for the bound weapon spells. The ability that lets you bind a slain opponent's soul as a temporary servant is a good conjuration stand in. The only thing it's really lacking is healing.

If it's healing you're after, you could be a Celestial patron Bladelock. Not as optimal for a melee combatant as a Hexblade patron Bladelock, but it does get you access to Cure Wounds, Lesser and Greater Restoration, and Revivify, plus a little bit of additional healing from Healing Light.

[Sigreid]

If it's healing you're after, you could be a Celestial patron Bladelock. Not as optimal for a melee combatant as a Hexblade patron Bladelock, but it does get you access to Cure Wounds, Lesser and Greater Restoration, and Revivify, plus a little bit of additional healing from Healing Light.

I had thought about suggesting that but I think you give up to much for too little.

[kazaryu]

Hey all, I'm enjoying playing Skyrim at the moment (late to the party, I know) and am wondering how it would be possible to best create a similar kind of character in DnD.

I would be looking to wear heavy armour but make extensive use of evocation magic to destroy my enemies, as well as have access to generically useful utility spells. If people get too close, Ideally I would also be able to do some healing/warding.

It feels like wizard (evoker or war wizard?) would be the way forward, either with a level of fighter or a cleric domain that gives access to heavy armour and martial weapons. The latter might involve serious MADness though. I have no idea how to do sensible stats using point buy either! Any ideas much appreciated, although this is only really a thought experiment 🙂
disclaimer: much of this is written tongue-in-cheek. its not meant to insult your intelligence.


OK! so, i've had my entire shift to think about this because im obsessive and what not. so first: basic assumptions. this character *has* to be 2-ability score dependent. strength (neccesary for heavy armor, unless you're ok being slow) and a casting stat. if you wanna wear that sweet daedric/dragonbone armor and not get slowed you'll need 15 str eventually. secondly you need a casting stat.
3rd, you need heavy armor proficiency. now, generally speaking the cheapest way to get that is with a lvl 1 dip, or by going variant human. that way you don't have to deal with the loss of armor proficiency from multi classing. 3rd: you'll want to focus on constitution and dexterity after your str and casting stat. meaning that 2 of your mental stats are probably gonna get dumped. Lastly, you want to be a blaster and theoretically be able to simulate some of the things you can do in skyrim.

Now, the dragonborn shows up and just by existing is allowed to live and even set free when his execution is thwarted. after that he (im just going to use male pronouns becuase thats what i usually play and its easier than trying to consistently be gender neutral) spends his life at the beck and call of his lessers generally doing menial tasks and getting bandied around by basically everyone. The only time he's ever the top of the heap is when he doesn't have any direct 'leadership' and is more in a position of respect or administration (companions/college respectively). sounds like he's neither the brightest torch in the underwater chest, nor the most mentally stalwart. on the other hand he can just..w.ill magic into existence through shouting. sounds like charisma caster to me. but what kind of charisma caster? well, the dragonborn gets his power from having the soul of a dragon. sounds like a sorcerer to me. which is convenient because sorcerers, by far, make the best blasters. but what kind of sorcerer? you might think draconic because..dragonborn right? duh. i'd say you're wrong. now draconic sorcerers are probably the best subclass for making a pure blaster (since they get bonus damage), however you mentioned you wanted some of the healing too. Now, how does a dragonborn exist? they have part of the soul of akatosh. the dragon God . so...they have part of a god's soul. sounds like a divine soul to me! thats the narrative justification. now the mechanical.

sorcerers are defined by two major features font of magic and metamagic.

font of magic: gives you a pool of sorcerery points that you can use to recover spell slots, or convert spell slots into different sizes. thematically equivalent to mana regen. (yes, i know other classes get things that thematically can represent mana regen, im just pointing this out.)

metamagic: twin/quicken spells specifically will help to simulate dual casting magic. they each have their own limitations and its not a perfect representation, but its better than anything any other casting class has. other metamagic options help too: heightened means you tend to do more damage with save based spells. empowered guarantees that you do more damage on average. etc. point being that metamagic is awesome. (i'd recommend grabbing quicken and something else that isn't Twin.)

now, sorcerers do have the drawback of being limited in spells known, but i mean...c'mon really how often do you cast more than like 6 spells? a couple damage ones, invisibility and some heals.

divine soul: not only do you get a free spell known (probably for you either bless or cure wounds since thats what you were looking for) but as you level up you can also grab a couple of 'restoration' spells from teh cleric spell list. reason this is good is that eventually cure wounds falls off, so just a 1 lvl dip in cleric isn't enough.

alright, so thats where our battlemage is getting most of the magic, now lets discuss the 'battle' part of that. i have 3 options each with their own benefits, drawbacks, and focuses. here goes (i plan to throw a TL:DR at the end if you wanna skip to that).

Fighter 1/2: remember this dip is taking place at the start. fighter is going to be the 'safe' option here. any dip is going to slow down spell progression, but fighter does it the least, and gives you the bare minimum of what you're looking for. heavy armor proficiency, con save proficiency (concentration checks. less important for a blaster but still good), a 1/short rest baby heal. and an extra 4 starting hp (D10 HD instead of D6). it also gives you a fighting style which i'd recommend putting in defense: reason being if you put it in anything melee (and therefore plan to attack more in melee) there's a better option. so a 1 lvl dip only put you 1 level behind in spell progression while giving you everything you *technically* need to make a 'battlemage'. taking a second level in fighter puts you an entire spell tier behind (2 levels) but also allows you to cast 2 leveled spells in the same turn. and once you get your sorcerer churning you can do 2 levled spells+a cantrip. overall not bad.

Paladin 2/5: The paladin is more of a melee specialist. 2 levels will give you a fighting style and divine smite and heavy armor proficiency. it also has the advantage of counting as 1 spell casting level for the purpose of spell slots (not spells known tho). however, you do lose con save proficiency which can hurt. if you instead decide to go to lvl 5 you can effectively gain proficiency in all saves (but most particularly in con) because now you're adding your cha mod to all saves, and can grant that bonus to lydia. maybe now she won't die as often when she dives in front of your fireball. you also gain multiattack, however multiattack may be somewhat redundant as you can always just....grab booming blade/green-flame blade, then double cast it every round to simulate multi attack. you also lose ALOT of spell level progression doing this. i wouldn't recommend it unless you're committed to being a spell sword.

Warlock2/3: this one trades martial prowess for extra blastiness. elephant in the room: warlocks don't get heavy armor proficiency. you're right! hexblade warlock does two things: it gives you medium armor proficiency, and it removes the need for raising your str above 15. medium armor proficiency means you can go variant human and grab heavily armored (which also saves you a bit on your point buy since you can use the feat itself to go from 14 to 15 str. and since you're variant human you could even just go to 13 str in the pointbuy, but i'll discuss ability scores more at the end) ok so thats level one, but that is also a fairly large opportunity cost, without that cost warlock is a shoo-in. however here is what you gain: 2nd level warlock: ok, you now have agonizing blast which means your eldritch blast scales 100% on par with a fighters base damage output. then you also have booming blade/GfB for melee. both of them scaling off of cha. meaning that now you have a ranged and melee at-will option to fight the giant thats attacking your home after you wasted all your mana telekinesising your belongings into a pile in order to be scattered with Fus-Roh-Da. speaking of those cantrips, you can also use quicken to cast them on the same turn that you cast a leveled spell (this is where the blasting comes from). and you can do this more and more often as you level sorcerer. you gain access to Hex to further boost your blasting (first round hex+EB, next round scorching ray+EB alllllll the free d6's), you can also use hex to make you hard to grapple. and you get 2 1st level spell slots that come back on a short rest. which can act as hex/shield fodder. or be burnt into sorcery points to get an extra quicken in. for the second invocation its mostly flavor: repelling blast gives you some control, and as you level up allows you to shove further and further (remember you can cast EB 2x per turn.) eventually scaling up to 80 feet. but there are plenty of other cool options. now, my personal recommendation is to go 3 levels in warlock so you cna get pact boons. go pact of the tome and swap whatever your second invocation is for book of ancient secrets. which works similarly to ritual casting. with a couple of key differences: 1st it starts you off with 2 free spells. find familiar? because who doesnt like a pet. ceremony? now you don't need to send muiri all the way to riften to marry you, you can just marry her and ship her straight off to your chosen dung- homestead. but seriously there are a ton of spells to choose from (and you can choose from every list) the drawback is that you are limited to half your warlock level rounded up. which for this means lvl 2 spells. Alarm is another solid option to avoid being disturbed while you wait in the middle of the dungeon for your mana to come back. the third warlock level also doubles your spell slot short rest regen to 2x2nd lvl. which is an extra 4 sorcery points per short rest (in other words, the sorcerer capstone, but more versatile).


TL:DR
Fighter:
Pros: No major downside, con save prof, heavy armor prof, a bit of extra HP.
cons: doesn't really benefit the playstyle besides filling out all the checkboxes for the 'battle' half of battlemage

notes: safe pick, equally benefits either style of play or a balanced style of play. which is to say, doesn't really directly benefit either.

Paladin: Pros-easy armor proficiency, slightly better spell slot scaling, smites GREATLY impact your melee effectiveness.
cons: gives you less than the fighter for the overall build, and what you get to compensate exclusively benefits a melee fighting style.

notes: overall a great choice if you wanna go melee, out the box can already feel like/be flavored as a battlemage, but lack any real 'blasting'.

Warclok: Pros: more spells back per short rest; therefore, more sorcery points, gives several abilities that greatly benefit a blasting playstyle. greatly reduces MAD.
cons: most expensive option for getting heavy armor proficiency, lowest starting hp

notes: honestly if it didn't require you give up your free feat (or your first ASI) to get heavy armor prof then this'd be a shoo-in. on the other hand if you decide that medium armor is close enough that alleviates this entire downside. gives you alot of benefits to your blasting ability to compensate for the heavy cost of the theme.

Now ability scores. for teh paladin, im going to assume that you're going to be focusing on melee, and thus focus more on str than cha. for the other two im assuming that you're going blaster.

Fighter: race half elf (justification: bonus to cha+ 2 others, great for any MAD character that uses cha. extra skill proficiencies are nice too because as we know, the dragonborn can do anything)
Pre-racial Post-racial (alternate)
S: 14 S: 15
D: 11 D: 12
C: 12 C: 12 (14)
W;10 W: 10
I: 10 I: 10 (8)
Ch: 15 Ch: 17
notes: place your racials in charisma (duh), str and dex. no negatives, but your 2 tertiary stats arent great.
alternative: drop int by 2 and raise dex and con by 1 each. then place your racials in str and con. now you have a negative int but you have +2 con (so +2 hp/lvl to help you be tanky). if you'd rpefer you can reverse the numbers for con and dex, but i think con is going to be more useful long run. same goes for wis/int. i think wis is just more useful.

Paladin: race: half-elf still works, but you may wanna go something with str instead, since you're focusing melee anyway. goliath is good since it does str and con, V. human so you can get con save prof or warcaster, im going to just use half elf because you said you still wanna blast. for ability base ability scores i'd say start with the same as above, just switch charisma and str. at least for half elf.

Warlock: as discussed you gotta do v. human

pre racial post racial
S:13 15 (+1 human +1 heavily armored feat)
D: 12 12
C: 14 14
W: 10 10
I: 8 8
Ch: 15 16
alternate: if you *do* decide that medium armor is fine for the theme, then just go half elf and use the ability scores from above.

if you wanna explore alternative race options (here's the calculator i used for this: http://chicken-dinner.com/5e/5e-point-buy.html) keep some things in mind:
1. odd ability scores don't generally benefit you. in an ideal world you'll end up with even ability scores.
2. contrary to the above, if you plan to take a feat that gives a +1 ability score (as an example resiliant), then its probably best to leave that ability score odd so that the feat makes it even.
3. go into the process with a priority of ability scores, you won't be able to have all of them high, and having all of them mediocre is going to perform poorly in the long run.

[Mercurias]

Okay so here is my swing at an Imperial Battlemage from Skyrim:

Race: Variant Human (Most of them are in Skyrim)
Class: Fighter 1/Wizard x (Abjuration)
Stats: 16 STR, 8 DEX, 14 CON, 16 INT, 10 WIS, 8 CHA
Fighting Style: Defense
ASIs: +4 INT, +2 CON, War Caster, Tough
Variant Human Feat: Magical Initiate (Wizard) (Green Flame Blade, Fire Bolt, Find Familiar)



This one starts feeling Battle Mage-y at level 1 with the Magic Initiate Feat. Picking War Mage at the start would have been better mechanically, but sadly that requires you to already know spells, and Con save proficiency is probably most important of all.

So this makes you into an extremely versatile caster and super-tank. Not only do you have plate armor, but you can use a shield, cast Shield for a reaction, have a pool of temp HP that recharges when you cast Abjuration spells, and have resistance out the wazoo. This makes you a solid front-line character, even though you’re going to get more out of casting than melee attacks.

You’re going to shine brightest when it comes time to stand tall against other casters, where you have the most powerful counter-spell in the game, as well as the firepower and utility to shut them down hard.

[Jaryn]

These are some absolutely fabulously thought out replies - thank you so much! The idea of the Dragonborn having low Int and Wis because he spends so much time running round fetching stuff for people made me laugh in particular.

I love the fact that in 5e there are so many different ways of realising a concept.