what skills do i need to make a scroll in the wild?

[newguydude1]

i was wondering what craft skills i need to make paper, ink, and a writing implement like a quill or something out of wood or rock or a brush or something.

and what skill i need to gather those materials (profession?).

i was wondering if i could make a scroll in the middle of a forest without a shop.

is there a term for papermaking, ink making, pen making, and a guy who gathers stuff like those?

[sleepyphoenixx]

i was wondering what craft skills i need to make paper, ink, and a writing implement like a quill or something out of wood or rock or a brush or something.

and what skill i need to gather those materials (profession?).

i was wondering if i could make a scroll in the middle of a forest without a shop.

is there a term for papermaking, ink making, pen making, and a guy who gathers stuff like those?

A writing implement is probably the easiest, a quill generally just being a suitably stiff feather.
Ink is a little more difficult (in that you can't just pick it up off the ground) but there's tons of ways to make some with natural materials. The question is if those would be suitable for a magical scroll.
Either knowledge: nature or survival should work to find those.

Scrolls are generally written on parchment, not paper, which is just dried animal skin, so it shouldn't be too hard to source.
For crafting you'd need something like craft: leatherworking or profession: tanner i guess.

There are also rules for alternatives to scrolls (CArc, p. 138), but they require Craft Wondrous Item in addition to Scribe Scroll (and the given examples aren't any easier to source, really).

[Firest Kathon]

According to the rules text (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#creatingScrolls), you need "a supply of choice writing materials, so just squeezing some berries for ink will most likely not be enough. Consider also that the materials cost several dozen to several hundred gp, an amount that you would need one or more weeks to produce using Craft or Profession skills. Therefor IMHO these are bad ways to model the process of creating scroll components.

My suggestion would rather be to allow a spellcraft or Knowledge(arcana/religion) check (DC 15-20) to turn collected, suitable loot (e.g. gems, valuables, magic items) into scroll materials of half the gp value. My thinking here is that this is a skill that a spellcaster would have learned during their training. In addition there is no gain or loss of resources compared to selling loot (at 1/2 market price) and buying materials, and the spellcaster does not need to invest in skills which may only come up once or twice per game. Depending on the focus of the game you may add a time factor (e.g max 50gp/day converted) or the need to find a suitable workplace (e.g. a protected cave). Other characters may even contribute (e.g. the ranger finding some plants for a base ink to be enhanced with the special materials).

[newguydude1]

According to the rules text (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#creatingScrolls), you need "a supply of choice writing materials, so just squeezing some berries for ink will most likely not be enough. Consider also that the materials cost several dozen to several hundred gp, an amount that you would need one or more weeks to produce using Craft or Profession skills. Therefor IMHO these are bad ways to model the process of creating scroll components.

im doing a short solo adventure with my dm that gives me no shops so if it takes a year then it takes a year to craft a scroll.


My suggestion would rather be to allow a spellcraft or Knowledge(arcana/religion) check (DC 15-20) to turn collected, suitable loot (e.g. gems, valuables, magic items) into scroll materials of half the gp value. My thinking here is that this is a skill that a spellcaster would have learned during their training. In addition there is no gain or loss of resources compared to selling loot (at 1/2 market price) and buying materials, and the spellcaster does not need to invest in skills which may only come up once or twice per game. Depending on the focus of the game you may add a time factor (e.g max 50gp/day converted) or the need to find a suitable workplace (e.g. a protected cave). Other characters may even contribute (e.g. the ranger finding some plants for a base ink to be enhanced with the special materials).

my thinking was just make the pen really expensive and the rest high quality but cheap. "fine vellum" costs 0.5gp per page so thats cheap. ink is 8gp so double that to 16gp for choice ink even if its from berries. and then whatever the crafting supply cost is left is made from a super expensive pure gold or sapphire or w.e pen. or just a wooden pen but so pretty that it qualifies as art sculpture and cost a lot of gp.


A writing implement is probably the easiest, a quill generally just being a suitably stiff feather.
Ink is a little more difficult (in that you can't just pick it up off the ground) but there's tons of ways to make some with natural materials. The question is if those would be suitable for a magical scroll.
Either knowledge: nature or survival should work to find those.

Scrolls are generally written on parchment, not paper, which is just dried animal skin, so it shouldn't be too hard to source.
For crafting you'd need something like craft: leatherworking or profession: tanner i guess.

There are also rules for alternatives to scrolls (CArc, p. 138), but they require Craft Wondrous Item in addition to Scribe Scroll (and the given examples aren't any easier to source, really).

so craft leatherworking or craft papermaking, and craft dye making for ink?

[Vaern]

Any set of crafting skills could reasonably be used to create scrolls in the wild, granting that one of the splat books suggests that the functionality of a scroll - being a simple single-user spell completion item - can be applied to a number of different forms such as carved runestones and such. You might even achieve the same effect as a scroll by painting the proper inscription onto a bead, and make something resembling a necklace or fireballs out of them.
The major issue, as has already been noted, is that crafting magic items regardless of what form it takes requires specially treated and expensive materials. You aren't just writing a formula and an incantation on a sheet of vellum - a proper scroll has to actually have magic bound to it. If you have no shops available to get those kinds of materials from, I would ask your DM about just substituting the GP cost for an additional XP penalty.

[newguydude1]

Any set of crafting skills could reasonably be used to create scrolls in the wild, granting that one of the splat books suggests that the functionality of a scroll - being a simple single-user spell completion item - can be applied to a number of different forms such as carved runestones and such. You might even achieve the same effect as a scroll by painting the proper inscription onto a bead, and make something resembling a necklace or fireballs out of them.
The major issue, as has already been noted, is that crafting magic items regardless of what form it takes requires specially treated and expensive materials. You aren't just writing a formula and an incantation on a sheet of vellum - a proper scroll has to actually have magic bound to it. If you have no shops available to get those kinds of materials from, I would ask your DM about just substituting the GP cost for an additional XP penalty.

scroll crafting materials are mundane.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by sleepyphoenixx
Scrolls are generally written on parchment, not paper….

According to the DMG, p. 211, “A scroll is a spell magically inscribed onto paper or parchment so it can be used later.” This is clarified on p. 237: “A scroll is a heavy sheet of fine vellum or high-quality paper.”

Thus either paper or parchment can be used, no difference. I don’t see anything specifying a particular kind of ink.


Originally Posted by newguydude1
i was wondering what craft skills i need to make paper….

This really depends on your DM, but depending on the type of wilderness you’re in, paper birch would be ideal for your needs, since its bark peels off into paperlike strips. This would be prevalent in northern forests.

If you’re in a rainforest, you can search for a species like mulatera, where the bark sloughs off into long sheets, again ideal for scrolls. I’d allow a Survival or Knowledge (nature) check to find a suitable tree, but again this depends on your DM.


Originally Posted by Vaern
…a proper scroll has to actually have magic bound to it.

I would presume this is part of the scribing process. Do you know of any rules text that clarifies this?


Originally Posted by Vaern
…I would ask your DM about just substituting the GP cost for an additional XP penalty.

And this is a good suggestion to close up any discrepancy between gathered vs. purchased materials.

[newguydude1]

ok wikipedia says papermaker is an actual job. so i will be doing craft:papermaking.

also thank you everyone. this thread convinced my dm that i dont need to use profession:paper material gatherer. and i shown him that you can make paper and ink out of grass.

so my guy is gonna just do dc20 craft:papermaking, craft:dye making, and craft:sculpting with grass, leaves, and wood to make the scroll materials for weeks and have the monsters come to me.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by newguydude1
also thank you everyone. this thread convinced my dm that i dont need to use profession:paper material gatherer.

Glad to help, and glad your DM is working with you on this.


Originally Posted by newguydude1
and i shown him that you can make paper and ink out of grass.

I’ve tried making paper from grass, and it was a lot harder than I thought it would be. More decorative than functional, to say the least. But then I was using Pampas grass.

I’ve had much better luck making paper from papyrus, though it still takes some effort. But the end result is worth it.