Training Rules?

[StSword]

I'm looking for generally applicable training rules.

The kind of thing that would allow a fighter to take a cooking class and gain benefit without sacrificing those precious skill points from leveling, or a wizard going to a dojo and learning how to punch without having to wait until they are at the right level to gain a new feat.

So Dnd 3x, Pathfinder, third party, anyone seen something like that?

[Saint-Just]

I would be surprised if anything like that exists in the WotC materials (at least RAI). Adventurers become better by adventuring, not by going through the boot camp.

There are a few cases when you can straight up buy improvements for your character (grafts, warforged components, Quori embedded shards) but they are all relatively costly and have more cyberpunk-y feel to them - not training but implants.

Also note that magical items which grant you permanent bonuses (e.g. Manual of X) will usually be priced at five, ten or more times the price of equivalent item which gives you the same bonus while worn.

P.S. How exactly "learning how to punch" would be represented game-mechanically? Improved Unarmed Strike? Increased Str? Incresed BAB? In any case it seems like getting any of those things for free would be a reward for mid-to-high-level adventure, not something you would learn in a good but mundane school.

[StSword]

I would be surprised if anything like that exists in the WotC materials (at least RAI). Adventurers become better by adventuring, not by going through the boot camp.

There are a few cases when you can straight up buy improvements for your character (grafts, warforged components, Quori embedded shards) but they are all relatively costly and have more cyberpunk-y feel to them - not training but implants.

Also note that magical items which grant you permanent bonuses (e.g. Manual of X) will usually be priced at five, ten or more times the price of equivalent item which gives you the same bonus while worn.

P.S. How exactly "learning how to punch" would be represented game-mechanically? Improved Unarmed Strike? Increased Str? Incresed BAB? In any case it seems like getting any of those things for free would be a reward for mid-to-high-level adventure, not something you would learn in a good but mundane school.

If you had said 3x you'd probably be right, but since you said WotC, be surprised. :)

5th edition has the option in the DMG for players to get training instead of the usual reward for adventuring.

And it's downtime rules include "You can spend time between adventures learning a new language or training with a set of tools. Your GM might allow additional training options. First, you must find an instructor willing to teach you. The GM determines how long it takes, and whether one or more ability checks are required. The training lasts for 250 days and costs 1 gp per day. After you spend the requisite amount of time and money, you learn the new language or gain proficiency with the new tool."

But that's 5e and not 3x/PF, and not really much of a system.

Pathfinder has a similar set up, but it's not really much of a system. You can gain prestige in organizations, and one of the awards possible is getting trained in something.

For example, there's a magical college that is apparently really fond of mystic theurges, since it teaches an increase in caster levels for up to two classes.

So I was hoping someone somewhere went with the idea but had more of a system to it.

[Buufreak]

3.5 does have organizations and touch stones that grant nonfluff statistical benefits and abilities. And there is always the outog hole, or however it is spelled. Jump in, don't die, get a feat.

[NontheistCleric]

And there is always the outog hole, or however it is spelled. Jump in, don't die, get a feat.

Otyugh, and it's not the only one of its kind. There are other feat-granting locations in the same section of Complete Scoundrel.

[StSword]

Thanks but not what I was looking for.

If I was just looking at cheating the system, I'd just combine Sculpt Self with the more expansive item creation rules from Practical Enchanter.

One of the things that book does is reverse engineer canon dnd magic items so that players can make items like them, so players can make items of "grant feat X" or "item that gives skill blah."

I was looking more for something that would work in a World of Prime inspired game, where class levels don't represent training of any sort but stuff being downloaded into one's brain ala the Matrix and "I know kung fu!"

[sleepyphoenixx]

The only things i know of you can get from just training are teamwork benefits.
They're usually pretty minor but there are some that are useful and the requirements are generally stuff you'd take anyway or just a few skill points.

Aside from those learning something new is generally represented by leveling up. You can buy some feats for gold as mentioned but that's it.

[Zombimode]

I was looking more for something that would work in a World of Prime inspired game, where class levels don't represent training of any sort but stuff being downloaded into one's brain ala the Matrix and "I know kung fu!"

Sure, but that is like trying put a square peg into a round hole: leveling up and thus getting better or getting new abilities is the effect of training. You only benefit from training if you are ready for it (have enough xp), and the training for adventurers is often assumed to be covered by their adventuring activities instead of going to the dojo (but not always).

If you change this core assumption of the game, you have to live with the consequences.

[StSword]

Sure, but that is like trying put a square peg into a round hole: leveling up and thus getting better or getting new abilities is the effect of training.

The authors of the Psionic Handbook would be surprised to hear that, considering psychic reformation makes that quite untrue.

And it sure as heck isn't changing the premise of anything when I already pointed out that Pathfinder has organizations teaching people things outside of the leveling system.

[liquidformat]

The authors of the Psionic Handbook would be surprised to hear that, considering psychic reformation makes that quite untrue.

And it sure as heck isn't changing the premise of anything when I already pointed out that Pathfinder has organizations teaching people things outside of the leveling system.

If you look back at 3.0 content like there is a pretty strong basis to argue that experience in and of itself doesn't always give you levels and feats in and of itself. Quite often you would need to find someone to train you to gain a feat or levels. This is especially true if you are looking to dip in other classes. And in the case of Prestige Classes even in 3.5 many explicitly require you to be trained by someone who already has levels in said class to gain levels in said classes. Beyond that there is also the sparring dummy that after 4 weeks of training gives you the ability to take 10' steps in place of 5' steps. Also items like the manual of bodily health has similar 'teaching' aspects to their ability to give you a permanent ability boost. It would be quite easy to just refluff them as the cost of intensive training to increase a stat from a 'qualified' instructor in a nonmagic/low magic setting.

[Ashtagon]

I'm looking for generally applicable training rules.

The kind of thing that would allow a fighter to take a cooking class and gain benefit without sacrificing those precious skill points from leveling, or a wizard going to a dojo and learning how to punch without having to wait until they are at the right level to gain a new feat.

So Dnd 3x, Pathfinder, third party, anyone seen something like that?

There is a sidebar in PHB (chapter 4, sidebar is called "character skills"), which notes that zero skill ranks does NOT represent zero ability. A character with no ranks in Profession (chef) can still cook decent edible meals for themselves and their friends (but probably won't win at competitive cooking contests). A character zero ranks in Drive can still commute to work each morning (but will have less success in the Grand Prix). A character with zero ranks in Swim can actually swim - in a swimming pool or a beach with no storms.


You're always welcome to assume that your character is familiar with — even good at, as far as everyday tasks go — many skills beyond those for which you actually gain ranks. The skills you buy ranks in, however, are those with which you have truly heroic potential.

If however, what you are after is a way to get extra skill points or extra feats without resorting to conventional levelling up to acquire skill points or feats, or having spells cast on you (such as disguise self to get a bonus to Disguise), or using equipment (eg masterwork skill item) or magic items, then no.

[Niztael]

Here are some old rules I tried to work up, you can see if you like them for your purposes.

pathfinderhomebrewrules.wordpress.com/2014/06/19/supplementary-feat-training-rules/

pathfinderhomebrewrules.wordpress.com/2014/06/19/supplementary-skill-training/[/url]