Re-introduce too-easily-overcome encounter or not?

[HoboKnight]

Heyya, guys,

I'll start with the enswer: NO. I think I should not reintroduce an encounter, but it's gnawing at me, so I'd really apprecaite playgrounds' take on the situation.

Here it is: My players (lvl 4 cleric, ranger, wizard, sorcerer) are finishing a campaign chapter, which concludes with them helping defend a small rural town from a massive attack by a large mercenary group.

According to the plan, they have woken up, there were large fire missiles falling upon the settlement (three small catapults mercenaries are using) and some arrows and they ran around the city to pick up the strongest NPCs they knew, have organized a nice party and charged to engage the mercenaries. The first encoutner took place near a large farm at the edge of town, where they've met a group of mercenaries. Short fight has ensued, was interesting, and party had pretty much viped out this group.

At the end of the fight, one of the mercenaries blew his horn and another mercenary group was starting to close in - but they were still rather far (about 500 ft) and it was obvious, it will take them awhile to reach the farm. Meanwhile, party took refuge IN the farm building and party ranger started to fire upon approaching enemies.

Now, I do not like mindless opponents. These are mercenaries, battle hardened and can evaluate the situation. The mercenary group consisting of five thugs and two veterans quickly realized, they will be just picked off at that distance with no cover, so they turned tails and ran.

Now, thing is - I make my encounter groups prior to the session. If enemies are not pre-prepaired for a certain encounter, I do not move the conditions in a way to explicitly benefit the NPC attackers. In combat, situation changes oftenly and you have to work with what you have - I apply this to PCs and NPCs.

But!

I have prepared 5 consequitve encounters to drain party's abilities, to really test them. And they have steamrolled encounter nr. 2 with ZERO resource investment. Ranger fired off a few arrows(we don't count arrows) and enemy group just pulled back.

Now my question is - should I re-introduce this encounter against them again? At closer quarters? Should I re-introduce this encounter with one missing enemy(shot by arrows?). Should I just say ... Hey, this is how the cookie crumbled, melee units were cought out in the open while traversing the fields ... it's what happens. This all seems legit to me. But they have spent zero resources. This bothers me.

Halp! :D

[Galithar]

Unless that groups morale was completely broken and they fled the scene then they absolutely should encounter them again. Maybe thin the numbers slightly to represent damage taken while fleeing.

These are battle hardened mercenaries though. They won't blindly charge to their death, but neither should they completely quit the battle. More likely they would retreat, regroup and search for a less exposed approach. Possibly join up with another group, or improvise a barrier to protect from arrows. A simple covered wagon would provide decent cover against a single Archer. They would simply need to propel it from the rear instead of having it drawn by an exposed horse out front.

I wouldn't let them off so easily though.

How many mercenaries in this group?

500 feet can be covered in 8 rounds. (60 feet movement with dash * 8 rounds = 480 feet covered)
Or it can be covered in 11 rounds while giving the archers disadvantage the entire time.
Dash move 60 free action drop prone. Next turn stand up dash move 45 drop prone. Rinse and repeat until you are in range to engage.

If there is 1 Archer (the ranger) and 10 enemies. They may decide that it's worth charging after all and try again. Maybe they even retreated and then immediately began sneaking back towards them. As soon as they are spotted again they charge.

Regardless since the enemies aren't defeated and there was 0 resource expenditure I would absolutely reintroduce that particular group of enemies, but maybe in conditions that a slightly more favorable to your players.

[DeTess]

You say you play your enemies smart, so don't just stop doing that the moment they leave the battle map. These mercenaries are still allive, and still want to take the village. Maybe they gather up some reinforcements to charge the farmhouse with. Maybe they get some tower shields or other cover. Maybe the farmhouse is of 0 interest to them, so they continue going after the actual village.

The PC's have beaten the first encounter with them, but they haven't defeated them, so they're fair game to use again.

[Randomthom]

I do not move the conditions in a way to explicitly benefit the NPC attackers. In combat, situation changes oftenly and you have to work with what you have - I apply this to PCs and NPCs.

But!

I have prepared 5 consecutive encounters to drain party's abilities, to really test them. And they have steamrolled encounter nr. 2 with ZERO resource investment.

I'm not going to criticise your personal sensibilities but they are potentially standing in the way of you being able to adequately challenge your players. There are still things you could do without compromising though.

Perhaps the mercs decide on another approach, geographically or tactically. Is there another route to the village with more cover? Could they pull the doors off a nearby farm building, attach it to a wagon then slowly move across the field behind total cover?

Perhaps the mercs have access to a catapult and some burning pitch and opt for a bit of collateral damage now they know the village has some strong help.

Maybe the mercs have a wizard who can cast invisibility on their best warrior and while he is occupying the ranged character's attention the others are pushing across the open ground. A Cleric with sanctuary might also work. Maybe they just wait for cover of darkness. That 500ft range isn't a problem if the archer can only see 60ft in darkness.

While you narratively side-step ammunition expenditure, could you also narratively re-introduce it just for this siege? Some players will appreciate the tension it might add, others may not like the apparent "changing of the rules". You could soften the blow by starting their count at a slightly generous number (2d10+10 remaining?)

Remember, your players will likely care more about a good time had and a hard fought victory won than that their DM "played fair". It's kind of the joy of DM'ing is that we don't have to play fair and if we wed ourselves too closely to that ideal, we're playing with one hand tied behind our back and possibly not giving the players the full enjoyment they might otherwise have. Also remember that unless you show them all of your notes and plans, the players don't know that you're not "playing fair". For all they know, everything was planned. Just make sure you're not contradicting what the PCs know to be true in-game.

[Aussiehams]

Make the party come to them. Have some mercernaries in plate with shields and maybe some magic protection sneak up in the dark and set the farm house on fire. If the Ranger can take AC 20 guys while shooting at disadvantage, out quick enough to stop them, they deserve the win.

[DMJosh]

Make the party come to them. Have some mercernaries in plate with shields and maybe some magic protection sneak up in the dark and set the farm house on fire. If the Ranger can take AC 20 guys while shooting at disadvantage, out quick enough to stop them, they deserve the win.

This is what I would do. If the PCs are holed up in a farmhouse but the mercs want to take the town, maybe the mercs leave a spotter or two with horns to keep an eye on the movements of the tough opposition (the PCs), while the rest move out to secure other objectives in town. Signal somehow to the players (screams, fires, fleeing villagers, etc.) that the attack is ongoing, and there are vulnerable people who need their protection too much for them to chill in the farmhouse for more than a minute or two. Then, when they leave, the spotters alert the rest of the mercs, and the PCs face a more challenging battle.

Or just turn the catapults on the farmhouse...

[Laserlight]

Kudos for letting a ranged character do his thing, btw.
Think about the NPC objectives. Capture the PCs? Capture the farmhouse? Something else, and they just happened to find PCs in the way?

[CapnWildefyr]

Good thoughts from all! Adding on, do the mercs have archers? Burn down the farmhouse with the PCs in it (flame arrows). As others said, if the mercs attack the other side of town then they can catch the PCs in the open when they try to get back. Also, multipronged attack. One archer can cover only one arc. Those mercs behind the cart just attract attention while others charged the door. Is the ground 100% flat? Is there a hedgerow to use as cover, or a ditch?

[MaxWilson]

Now, thing is - I make my encounter groups prior to the session. If enemies are not pre-prepaired for a certain encounter, I do not move the conditions in a way to explicitly benefit the NPC attackers. In combat, situation changes oftenly and you have to work with what you have - I apply this to PCs and NPCs.

But!

I have prepared 5 consequitve encounters to drain party's abilities, to really test them. And they have steamrolled encounter nr. 2 with ZERO resource investment. Ranger fired off a few arrows(we don't count arrows) and enemy group just pulled back.

Now my question is - should I re-introduce this encounter against them again? At closer quarters? Should I re-introduce this encounter with one missing enemy(shot by arrows?). Should I just say ... Hey, this is how the cookie crumbled, melee units were cought out in the open while traversing the fields ... it's what happens. This all seems legit to me. But they have spent zero resources. This bothers me.

Halp! :D

It's not the party's resources which logically matter here, it's the enemy's. Enemies just pulled back, they weren't shattered, so they remain a force in being and the encounter IMO isn't over.

What I'd do is roll dice for every future encounter you had planned. D6, and on a 1-2 add in the remnants of a prior encounter, so the players have to fight them both at once.

Driving an enemy off *can* be beneficial, but it's less beneficial than removing them from play entirely, and letting dice determine when they show up again is more fair than leaving it completely up to the DM.

[JackPhoenix]

I have prepared 5 consequitve encounters to drain party's abilities, to really test them. And they have steamrolled encounter nr. 2 with ZERO resource investment. Ranger fired off a few arrows(we don't count arrows) and enemy group just pulled back.

I disagree they steamrolled the encounter and there's been zero resource investment. The enemies didn't just disappeared when they ran, so they can rejoin the battle elsewhere. Besides, resource expenditure matters only between rests.... unless they decided to wait in the house for an hour, it doesn't matter they avoided an encounter. And they are using their most valuable resource.... their presence. If they are pinned in the house, the enemy is free to cause havoc elsewhere. Smart enemies should know it, and use that to their advantage: the mercenaries have numeric advantage, so if they can use few men to keep the PCs... who are likely the biggest threat around.... holed up, it's a win for them.

[Contrast]

Now, I do not like mindless opponents. These are mercenaries, battle hardened and can evaluate the situation. The mercenary group consisting of five thugs and two veterans quickly realized, they will be just picked off at that distance with no cover, so they turned tails and ran.

I wouldn't go back and retcon it now but the only places I can think of in my local area where there is 500ft of open terrain with no cover is parks and sports fields. A farm would be covered in walls and hedges that could be used to approach.

Others have already stressed the key point - they haven't defeated this encounter, they've just made it retreat temporarily (unless you decide the thugs are just gonna leave entirely at this point). Indeed by doing what they've done they've really just taken all the strongest defenders of the town and moved them to one location where the attackers now definitely know where they are and that they appear to be holing up defensively rather than moving to do something else. If the enemy return with a load of bowmen of their own the previously mentioned open terrain suddenly shifts into a trap for the PCs.

If your attackers can't do something with that information then they probably weren't ever a threat in the first place :smallbiggrin:

[8wGremlin]

Merc’s fallback and call in ranged support team consisting of longbow archers. They start firing flaming arrows at the farm house. Causing it to catch fire and start to burn.

Whilst this is going on first team advances again

You now have a situation for the rest of the party.
Keep putting out the fires and stay there or run out of the burning building and lose cover.

If the party prove too capable then the Mercs can be seen calling in one of the small catapults. And it starts with a few ranging shots.

The Mercs are professional soldiers they are used to this kind of thing play them as such.

[HappyDaze]

You have 4 more sequential encounters planned, right?
Well, have the guys that fell back just join in the next encounter.
If the next (now reinforced) set of bad guys has to fall back, have them also join the next encounter.
Repeat until the full mass of mercenaries is ready to strike.
Sure, it gets harder and harder, but that's a price to pay for giving up initiative by holding a position instead of going on the offense.

[MrStabby]

If they were woken up I am guessing it is night time. I think that the PC option with the greatest darkvision radius is the drow at 120 ft. At 500 ft they shouldn't really see what's happening.

If the enemy hides and advances under cover of darkness I would guess they would probably be within 60 ft before anyone has a good enough darkvision range to see them.

At that point fire some burning arrows into the farm and smoke out the PCs.

[HoboKnight]

If they were woken up I am guessing it is night time. I think that the PC option with the greatest darkvision radius is the drow at 120 ft. At 500 ft they shouldn't really see what's happening.

If the enemy hides and advances under cover of darkness I would guess they would probably be within 60 ft before anyone has a good enough darkvision range to see them.

At that point fire some burning arrows into the farm and smoke out the PCs.

Splendid answers all around, you guys have really saved my problem! :) Also: the attack was during the day.

[Phhase]

If they're not dead, then they're still alive. Just because they were outmaneuvered once doesn't mean they won't adapt and try again. Absolutely, throw them in again.