D&D Base Class Contest X Chat Thread

[MoleMage]

Welcome to the chat thread for the tenth Base Class Competition for D&D 5e. If you wish to say anything about the competition which is neither a submission nor a vote, then it belongs here. You do not need to be a contestant to post here. You are allowed to critique a competitor’s work and offer suggestions on how to improve their homebrew through this thread, but it is preferred if you do so through that class’ specific thread (if applicable).

Current Contest: Blast from the Past (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?606841-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-X-Blast-from-the-Past)

1st contest: Who Needs Swords or Sorcery? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?556338-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-I-Who-needs-Swords-OR-Sorcerery), won by WarrentheHero with the Inventor

2nd contest: Expect a low Margin of Terror (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?560208-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-II-expect-a-low-Margin-of-Terror), Won by Mourne with the Sleepwalker

3rd Contest: The Elements, and not the Periodic Ones (Probably?) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?565360-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-III-The-Elements-and-not-the-periodic-ones-(probably-)!), won By Pygmybatrider with The Shaman

4th contest: Does Not Meet Expectations (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?570496-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-IV-Does-Not-Meet-Expectations), won with a tie by Molemage with the Destined and Pygmybatrider's Mesmer

5th contest: Time to Chill out (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?576131-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-V-Time-to-Chill-Out&p=23567807#post23567807), won by Molemage with the Wintreborn

6th contest: The Monster Mash (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?581138-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-VI-The-Monster-Mash), won with a three-way tie by Molemage with the Golem, theVoidWatches with the Lycanthrope, and daemonaetae with the Elemental Scion

7th contest: Remix Mastery (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?587919-D-amp-D-Base-Class-Contest-VII-Remix-Mastery&p=23906232#post23906232), won by KOLE with the Ranger Remixed

8th contest: Contest VIII: Magic Without Slots (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?594571-D-amp-D-Base-Class-Contest-VIII-Magic-Without-Slots&p=24070927#post24070927), won by MoleMage with the Cultist

9th contest: It's Time for Time (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?600537-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-IX-It-s-Time-for-Time&p=24361802#post24361802), won by MoleMage with the Clockwinder



1) The class you homebrew should fit the theme. You can interpret the theme as broadly as you like without risk of disqualification, but doing so may reduce your chances of earning votes during the voting period.
2) You may only create one base class. If you create more than one class then you must choose which one to enter and remove all the others from this thread and the contest (making them invalid) . If you do not specify which one you favor by the time voting begins, all of your content is invalid.
3) When you submit your class you must create a post on this thread which either has the content or holds a link to it. You may also optionally create one other individual thread for your class on the homebrew design sub-forum. If it is found that you have revealed your class on another site or on another thread than one on the homebrew design sub-forum, your entry will be considered invalid. If you do make a specific thread for you class, please mention its involvement to the competition in that thread. If you use external formatting resources such as Homebrewery, or GMBinder it is recommended that you also create a PDF of the content and share it here.
4) You may use other homebrew content (such as feats, spells, magical items and monsters) or even features to supplement your class, provided you have permission from the original creator and provide links to the source. Failure to receive permission from the original creation will disqualify you from entry in the current contest.
5) Your class must have fully completed mechanics and descriptions for it to be valid. Entries are due by 11:59 PM Central Time on the deadline. Any submissions after this point are invalid. No changes can be made to your class while voting is taking place. Failure to comply with the previous rule will result in disqualification.
6) Any content which has been declared invalid by the rules above cannot be voted for, but you may decide to remove it from the contest and create another class instead. If you are disqualified then you are not allowed to enter any more homebrew for this competition, though you may still vote and later enter the next competition.
7) Please note that misunderstandings occur, if you break a rule which results in disqualification it might be excused if you can convince the group that it was a result of confusion over the rules.

Contests stay up for 8 weeks unless an extension is requested by participants. Voting threads then go up for 3 weeks before the next contest begins.


Dragons
Based in Science
Heroes from Myths
Partial Casters

[MoleMage]

In light of the forum downtime, I'm going to extend this contest an extra three weeks. The new deadline is therefore April 5th.

[KatsOfLoathing]

First time participant here, so I have a few questions.

I'd like to recreate the Shaman from previous editions, kinda blending the incarnations in 3e (bargains with nature spirits with power, druidic flavorings) and 4e (summons and commands elemental companions in combat). The end result I have in mind would be a half-caster that can summon allies kinda like a Wildfire Druid's elemental spirits, but somewhat more diverse, and has a couple of nature-themed powers on the side.

Would that work based on the rules of the contest? I understand it's kind of a loose interpretation of either version of the Shaman, but WoTC has never been very decided on what that should class should look like anyway.

[MoleMage]

First time participant here, so I have a few questions.

I'd like to recreate the Shaman from previous editions, kinda blending the incarnations in 3e (bargains with nature spirits with power, druidic flavorings) and 4e (summons and commands elemental companions in combat). The end result I have in mind would be a half-caster that can summon allies kinda like a Wildfire Druid's elemental spirits, but somewhat more diverse, and has a couple of nature-themed powers on the side.

Would that work based on the rules of the contest? I understand it's kind of a loose interpretation of either version of the Shaman, but WoTC has never been very decided on what that should class should look like anyway.

The general rule is that the adherence to theme requirement is met as long as any amount of justification exists for that class being in the theme.

Voters usually prefer stronger connections to theme rather than tenuous ones, but in this particular case I think you would be reasonably safe.

[KatsOfLoathing]

The general rule is that the adherence to theme requirement is met as long as any amount of justification exists for that class being in the theme.

Voters usually prefer stronger connections to theme rather than tenuous ones, but in this particular case I think you would be reasonably safe.

Understood. I'll start getting to work. Thanks for the prompt response.

[sengmeng]

I couldn't find any 5e base class Soulknife write-ups online, so I think mine qualifies. I was never happy with the original Soulknife either, so this one is also a half "caster" with Psionics functioning like sorcery points. I have no spell list yet, but otherwise it's done; for PEACH purposes, pretend it's limited to enchantment and evocation with a few spells from any school, like the arcane trickster and eldritch knight. I may end up going with that because lazy. I did end up putting together a spell list.

Edit: also be brutal. I'm not entirely happy with it myself and expect major revisions.

[MoleMage]

Not surprised that 2/3 so far posted are based on 3.5 psionics. Let's take a look-see.


I was never really fond of Mystic as the title of the "generic" psionic class. To me, a mystic is someone who is highly spiritual and a psion is someone who uses their mind as a lever to pull on the forces of the universe. Both involve a lot of introspection, true, but one is much more abstract. However, 5e has established it as the name so I can't blame you for using it again.
Artificer progression strikes me as an odd choice for the primary psionics user. The class doesn't have a huge amount of baseline to support that progression rate. The subclasses make up for it somewhat, but if you're going to use that progression rate I would recommend giving additional features even when you do get a new spell level. Alternately, you could create an accelerated variant of ranger/paladin progression (much like artificer uses an accelerated version of eldritch knight progression) for the class to use (see Psionic Discovery below).
Psi point progression could be smoothed out across the class. Partial spellcasters only get one new spell slot every couple levels, but that's because that's the smallest unit of progression they can get. Jumping 4 points every couple levels just doesn't feel as natural as gaining 2 points every level, and the overall progression comes out the same.
I would either list Signature Talent as a Discipline feature or give it a description in the base class block. Listing it as a main feature when it is only in subclasses is a little confusing.
Mental Interference should be more limited. While it mimics Evasion in a lot of ways (and seems to be balanced against it), it has some unique benefits that evasion doesn't: first, it applies to two saves. I'm willing to let this slide because Int saves are fairly rare. The second is more concerning: it allows you to negate such spells for other people just by being in the area of effect. Finally, most Wis and Int saves fully negate effects, so even if your target makes their saving throw you probably shrug off the effects of their spell completely with your advantage. Making this cost a couple psi points would be fine (2 would be plenty I think), or making it otherwise limited per rest would also work.
Quickened Recovery: This drastically changes the way the class is played but comes pretty far into the class. I would move this back to 5th or 6th level personally (to line up with Font of Inspiration or similar features). This may require a slight decrease in number of psi points through the middle levels to compensate, but would feel better as a player.
Psionic Discovery is pretty weak for what amounts to a class capstone. Unless the Psion has some really nice exclusive 5th level spells, it isn't going to feel impactful, and even if they do, you can get to those spells 8 levels earlier by playing a bard, and cast them more frequently to boot. I'd rather see 5th level spells baseline in the class and some unique ability here.


Soul Knife:

I like your approach of modifying existing weapons. It aligns very neatly with 5e's mechanics, and allows the soul knife to customize their options more. My only concern is that psychic damage is one of the most commonly resisted types; often by the very creatures you'd like to deal magical physical damage to no less. I'd make the psychic damage optional, or maybe make it additional damage on top of the base damage (with scaling for higher damage amounts).
Hone the Blade does not list a duration, nor specify whether the additional damage is available on multiple hits or only the first hit. If it is intended to only apply to one hit, it is too weak, as it does one die less than "smite" effects in other classes (though this is probably compensated for by the sheer availability of psi points starting at level 11).
Consumtive Blade: I would change the wording to "reduce a creature to 0 hit points", to align with similar features such as Dark One's Blessing (Fiendlock). It could probably stand to be a little bit stronger too, considering the aforementioned feature is available at level 1 with fewer conditions for triggering and a greater number of THP provided.
Phantom Blade should be "until the [start/end] of your next turn". It also isn't clear whether it targets a creature or affects all your attacks against any creature (I lean towards the latter as an interpretation, but the wording could be cleaned up).
Shattering Strikes: Wow. That's an impressive capstone. My biggest concern here is not how powerful it is as an effect (though that is a concern as well), but how invalid it makes the rest of the subclass's features look. While Phantom Blade might still see occasional use on high AC targets or in the event the soul knife is using a weapon that doesn't match their stats, Hone the Blade becomes completely obsolete because Shattering Strikes does more damage than Hone the Blade even if the target succeeds on their save and outright kills them if they fail. I would rework this feature to be a big chunk of damage and a severe condition (like paralyzed or stunned on a failed save, and a smaller chunk of damage and no condition on a successful save. As long as the failed save is less damage than Hone the Blade could produce for 7 psi points, there is still a reason to use Hone the Blade (more straight/reliable damage), making it feel like psi points spent on Hone were not wasted.


Wu Jen
Maybe it's because my first exposure to the Wu Jen was in Complete Arcane (3.5), but it's odd to me that it has become associated with psionics.

Effortless Arcana: do all the cantrips have to come from the same spell list, or can each come from different spell lists?
Signature Talent: This is a very worthwhile use of psi limit. Do you have to choose to use this before rolling or does it replace the lowest dice after a roll? I recommend the former, but it's probably workable with the latter owing to psi limit.
Excess Arcana: Cantrips don't have a psi point cost. This means that you can functionally twincast cantrips all day long.
Influence Arcana: what limitations on damage types? Can any damage type convert into any other damage type? Any damage type into one of the types allowed by signature talent? Only those damage types into another from the same list?
Arcane Affinity: Like with Quickened Recovery above, this feels too iconic to come this late into the subclass. A class should have its identity features early on. I recommend moving the choice of affinity to an earlier level (even as early as Signature Talent) and leaving the cost reduction here as an upgrade.
Psionic Drain: Is the psi limit per spell or per creature? Either way, you have the "bag of rats" problem here (namely, could this feature be reliably triggered by carrying around a bag filled with small animals). Burning hands cast using 3 psi points (2 for 1st level, 1 to maximize one die) does 6 + 2d6 damage (minimum 8, average 13, maximum 18), which is enough to reliably kill any CR 0 animal that could be stuffed into a bag. You get back 7 psi points each time you do so (or in the long odds that they make their save, still get 4 back minimum), which improves to 8 at level 17, allowing you to gain more psi points back than you put into the effect.
Willpower: This is fine. Honestly it might be more expensive than it needs to be; with psi limits in place you can really only realiably use this on lower level spells, and you'd probably get a better return by upcasting them and/or using signature talent.
Master Psion: Double proficiency in attack rolls and saving throws is probably not a great idea. Combined with the Int boost, the class now has a +19 to hit with spells and a DC 27 saving throw. Even CR 20+ monsters are now failing their saves 50% of the time or more (barring legendary resistance), and in order to reduce spell hit chance below 50% would require an armor class of 30 or higher, which very few things in the monster manual will have (even the tarrasque, nominally a CR 30 monster, only boasts a 25 armor class and has its best saves at +10, requiring an 17 or higher to succeed). I would leave the Int boost in (it already allows the class to exceed normal boundaries for saves/attacks) but replace the double proficiency with an expanded psi point pool, psi limit, or both.






I feel like the soul knife deserves a third skill proficiency. It could probably also have a wider skill list to go with it. The 3.5 version was after all the psionic equivalent of a skill monkey.
The weapon list should be expanded to include some iconic martial weapons. Short swords especially.
Your starting equipment options include a shield, but the class does not receive shield proficiency outside of subclasses. Clerics receive expanded proficiencies at first level, and use the wording X (if proficient) or Y for their equipment.
Mind Blade: Bread and butter for any soulknife conversion. The actual mechanics of summoning and stats are fine, but it needs a damage type (or specify that the creator can choose a damage type).
Mind Blade Collapse: This is fine, it gives the class something to be doing/managing. I would split it out under it own name though to make it more noticable. The only odd thing here is that this has negative synergy with two-weapon fighting (something the class traditionally was good at).
Archetypes in general: I suggest moving them to 3rd level or giving them all a proper feature at 1st level. Expanded proficiencies are nice but they need some identity when selected.
Psionics: Do you have specific reasons for choosing this cost progression? If not, aligning them with the Spell Point Variant rules (DMG 288) would be my recommendation. My only caveat is that as a half-caster, you should smooth the progression through off-levels (instead of going 4, 4, 6, go 4, 5, 6).
Fighting Style: I would drop protection. You can add it back in as a choice for Psychic Knight along with GWF, but since the base class doesn't get shields, this shouldn't be a choice.
Swap the position of Energy Blade and Precise Strike, in my opinion. Precise Strike is nice but not reliable, while Energy Blade is a continuous damage boost more suitable for a tier upgrade.
Thought Shield does nothing, as the class gets Wisdom saving throws as a base saving throw proficiency.
Psychic Insight: I would use a minimum intelligence score or language capacity instead of the terminology you have but I like this as a feature.
Dual Blade: Underwhelming. A damage increase for collapsing or an entirely new feature would be better here (what about creating a whirling storm of mind blades around your person, or allowing thrown mindblades to stick in targets dealing ongoing damage instead of dissipating, or being able to teleport every time you collapse a blade?). Give them something flashy or alternately a resource refreshing ability.




Psychic Warrior: It's missing a 6th level feature. Overall, it's balanced but not attractive. Give it more ways to expand the options of the class instead of small boosts to effectiveness.
Pureblade: Psionic Smite is less efficient than other smite options (which do Spell Level + 1 dice of damage). War Psionics is a good example of what I'd like to see for Psychic Warrior (expanding the options for how to spend a round of combat). The 14th level feature should probably require either the power point or the reaction, but not both.
Lurk: Assassinate is a better version of the Assassin Rogue feature. I'm guessing based on the name you wanted to more-or-less copy that feature? Precise throw gives a non-standard range of 40/120 (30/120 is the existing range). Psychic Skate is very cool as a feature, but the name is a little misleading (the original Skate power let you slide across surfaces, moving faster downhill and on level ground but slower uphill).


I think you have a lot of good bits in here it doesn't feel very cohesive as a class at the moment. My recommendation is to go back and break down your class goals again from the beginning. Once you've done that, it'll be easier to spot which features need to be replaced or changed.

Some specific things that stood out as being out of place in my mind:

Obviously the mind blade is important, but is it merely an iconic feature of a class that mostly boasts innate power with strong subclasses (like Fighter's Action Surge) or is it a core function that everything else builds off of both in the main class and in subclasses (like Ki Points)? Is it something the Soul Knife uses nearly every turn (like Cunning Action) or only when they want to make a big impact (like Rage)?
The class as you have built it is a spellcaster at half progression (or equivalent). What does this add to the class? What could you give them instead? If it is important to their identity as a psionic class, what can you do with their spell list or features that use psi points to make them stand out from other spellcasters?
Each subclass feels like it has a weak identity of its own. The Psychic Warrior is basically Champion Fighter, the Trueblade is basically Paladin, and the Lurk is basically Assassin Rogue). Trueblade and Lurk have good individual features (as I mentioned above), but overall this is probably the biggest point where the class could be improved (in fact, if you lean into subclass identity really hard, you'd only need to fix one or two things in the main class). If you haven't already tried it, I'd suggest giving the archetypes a compelling category name and building them into the class lore (like Cleric Domains or Paladin Oaths, where the character makes a conscious choice to pursue it, instead of like Fighter or Rogue Archetypes where the subclass is almost purely mechanically driven). I find that classes whose archetypes are separated by lore are more compelling and easier to write for than classes whose archetypes are separated by mechanics.


One other idea that occured to me while reading this:

3.5 offered a wealth of psionic feats which were best used for martial or otherwise non-manifesting classes. Combining the 5e Eldritch Invocation model with those feats and some original creations could give the Soulknife an interesting method of customization outside of traditional spellcasting. You can ignore this if it doesn't align with your goals for the class.



I hope this helps. I really enjoy the souknife as a class and I think you have the 5e translations correct for what you have so far. I look forward to keeping up with the developments on this class!


Alright, some psionics reviews are up. I'm looking forward to the Shaman/Spirit Shaman blend, and also am curious about feedback on the Totemist (core features and slightly more than a third of melds are written so far), if anyone has the time to sift through my increasingly-characteristic enormous wall of text class.

[Ivellius]

I'd like to recreate the Shaman from previous editions, kinda blending the incarnations in 3e (bargains with nature spirits with power, druidic flavorings) and 4e (summons and commands elemental companions in combat). The end result I have in mind would be a half-caster that can summon allies kinda like a Wildfire Druid's elemental spirits, but somewhat more diverse, and has a couple of nature-themed powers on the side.

Would that work based on the rules of the contest? I understand it's kind of a loose interpretation of either version of the Shaman, but WoTC has never been very decided on what that should class should look like anyway.

I did a 5e Shaman a few...years (?) ago, and your description would almost work for what I'd ended up with (mine was a full caster, to be fair). In my case, I'd say the concept is pretty much what I'd expect from an update, so I personally think you're good (and if I remember to vote).

[sengmeng]

"Sengmeng's Soulknife"

I feel like the soul knife deserves a third skill proficiency. It could probably also have a wider skill list to go with it. The 3.5 version was after all the psionic equivalent of a skill monkey. Done, conditionally.
The weapon list should be expanded to include some iconic martial weapons. Short swords especially. Done
Your starting equipment options include a shield, but the class does not receive shield proficiency outside of subclasses. Clerics receive expanded proficiencies at first level, and use the wording X (if proficient) or Y for their equipment. No longer relevant.
Mind Blade: Bread and butter for any soulknife conversion. The actual mechanics of summoning and stats are fine, but it needs a damage type (or specify that the creator can choose a damage type). Now it's psychic, slashing, or Piercing.
Mind Blade Collapse: This is fine, it gives the class something to be doing/managing. I would split it out under it own name though to make it more noticable. The only odd thing here is that this has negative synergy with two-weapon fighting (something the class traditionally was good at). Done, though collapse no longer costs an action, a definite boost in power
Archetypes in general: I suggest moving them to 3rd level or giving them all a proper feature at 1st level. Expanded proficiencies are nice but they need some identity when selected. Moved to 3rd, given proper features and proficiencies. First level now has a separate option which determines their manifesting stat. Also no more Pureblade. Screw him.
Psionics: Do you have specific reasons for choosing this cost progression? If not, aligning them with the Spell Point Variant rules (DMG 288) would be my recommendation. My only caveat is that as a half-caster, you should smooth the progression through off-levels (instead of going 4, 4, 6, go 4, 5, 6).Progression is now equal to level, with each archetype having different ways to snag a few extra power points along the way
Fighting Style: I would drop protection. You can add it back in as a choice for Psychic Knight along with GWF, but since the base class doesn't get shields, this shouldn't be a choice. Dropped entirely.
Swap the position of Energy Blade and Precise Strike, in my opinion. Precise Strike is nice but not reliable, while Energy Blade is a continuous damage boost more suitable for a tier upgrade. Did so much revision that I don't know if I did this or not because I no longer remember where these sat
Thought Shield does nothing, as the class gets Wisdom saving throws as a base saving throw proficiency.Gone. Saves adjusted altogether
Psychic Insight: I would use a minimum intelligence score or language capacity instead of the terminology you have but I like this as a feature. I don't remember what this did and I think it's gone now.
Dual Blade: Underwhelming. A damage increase for collapsing or an entirely new feature would be better here (what about creating a whirling storm of mind blades around your person, or allowing thrown mindblades to stick in targets dealing ongoing damage instead of dissipating, or being able to teleport every time you collapse a blade?). Give them something flashy or alternately a resource refreshing ability. 100% gone.




Psychic Warrior: It's missing a 6th level feature. Overall, it's balanced but not attractive. Give it more ways to expand the options of the class instead of small boosts to effectiveness.
Pureblade: Psionic Smite is less efficient than other smite options (which do Spell Level + 1 dice of damage). War Psionics is a good example of what I'd like to see for Psychic Warrior (expanding the options for how to spend a round of combat). The 14th level feature should probably require either the power point or the reaction, but not both.
Lurk: Assassinate is a better version of the Assassin Rogue feature. I'm guessing based on the name you wanted to more-or-less copy that feature? Precise throw gives a non-standard range of 40/120 (30/120 is the existing range). Psychic Skate is very cool as a feature, but the name is a little misleading (the original Skate power let you slide across surfaces, moving faster downhill and on level ground but slower uphill).


Almost entirely revamped. The non standard range is kept, though, as that was simply doubling the short and long ranges

I think you have a lot of good bits in here it doesn't feel very cohesive as a class at the moment. My recommendation is to go back and break down your class goals again from the beginning. Once you've done that, it'll be easier to spot which features need to be replaced or changed.

Some specific things that stood out as being out of place in my mind:

Obviously the mind blade is important, but is it merely an iconic feature of a class that mostly boasts innate power with strong subclasses (like Fighter's Action Surge) or is it a core function that everything else builds off of both in the main class and in subclasses (like Ki Points)? Is it something the Soul Knife uses nearly every turn (like Cunning Action) or only when they want to make a big impact (like Rage)?
The class as you have built it is a spellcaster at half progression (or equivalent). What does this add to the class? What could you give them instead? If it is important to their identity as a psionic class, what can you do with their spell list or features that use psi points to make them stand out from other spellcasters?
Each subclass feels like it has a weak identity of its own. The Psychic Warrior is basically Champion Fighter, the Trueblade is basically Paladin, and the Lurk is basically Assassin Rogue). Trueblade and Lurk have good individual features (as I mentioned above), but overall this is probably the biggest point where the class could be improved (in fact, if you lean into subclass identity really hard, you'd only need to fix one or two things in the main class). If you haven't already tried it, I'd suggest giving the archetypes a compelling category name and building them into the class lore (like Cleric Domains or Paladin Oaths, where the character makes a conscious choice to pursue it, instead of like Fighter or Rogue Archetypes where the subclass is almost purely mechanically driven). I find that classes whose archetypes are separated by lore are more compelling and easier to write for than classes whose archetypes are separated by mechanics.


One other idea that occured to me while reading this:

3.5 offered a wealth of psionic feats which were best used for martial or otherwise non-manifesting classes. Combining the 5e Eldritch Invocation model with those feats and some original creations could give the Soulknife an interesting method of customization outside of traditional spellcasting. You can ignore this if it doesn't align with your goals for the class. Done, called Meditations. Looking to expand the list before the contest ends



I hope this helps. I really enjoy the souknife as a class and I think you have the 5e translations correct for what you have so far. I look forward to keeping up with the developments on this class!


Thanks for prompt and extensive feedback. You gave me a lot to think about, and I basically answered those questions about my goals with "whatever is most interesting." I have almost entirely redone the class. It's probably too powerful as is, but I like how it would function and I kind of like starting at overpowered and trimming.

[KatsOfLoathing]

The chassis and class features for the Shaman are complete, now all that's left is the subclass features, the spell list (probably mostly Druid spells with some stuff removed/added), and the stat blocks for the class's nature spirit allies. I'll be posting what I have (and hopefully giving reviews for the other classes) soon.

Currently I'm storing all my work on Google Docs; are there any recommendations for putting it on GM Binder vs. Homebrewery? I'm not really familiar with either site and am open to suggestions.

[MoleMage]

Currently I'm storing all my work on Google Docs; are there any recommendations for putting it on GM Binder vs. Homebrewery? I'm not really familiar with either site and am open to suggestions.

My experience has been that GMBinder is more reliable when viewed by people using different browsers/resolutions/zoom levels. In the past people have also used Google Docs to share their classes and that usually works out pretty well also

[MoleMage]

Just updated my Totemist post with a fresh link and the intro blurb. The base class and subclasses are all written, and I've got 26 out of 39 planned melds written as well. I should definitely have the rest of the melds finished by the deadline, but I'm interested in feedback on what I have so far (especially opinions about the core mechanics).

[Lanth Sor]

Would hombrew of prior editions count?

[MoleMage]

Would hombrew of prior editions count?

If you mean homebrew for 5e based on homebrew for prior editions that's fine with me. Just provide a source and make sure you have permission if the original wasn't yours.

[KOLE]

Alright ya'll, quick poll: Gonna throw my hat in the ring here.

Which would you prefer to see: a 5e Witch, or a 5e Gunslinger?

[MoleMage]

Alright ya'll, quick poll: Gonna throw my hat in the ring here.

Which would you prefer to see: a 5e Witch, or a 5e Gunslinger?

I'd like to see a Witch myself, provided you can make it feel sufficiently distinct from Warlock and Wizard. 5e needs more Intelligence-keyed options.

[sengmeng]

Vague, probably unhelpful feedback:

I never played a 3.5 incarnum class, but this looks like one as far as I remember. I can say that it stays on theme and looks interesting and I would want to playtest one, but I really can't figure out how it will play or how balanced it is. I'd really like to try one though, so that's a positive.

This one is hard to evaluate because it steps so heavily on my own entry's toes, so every place we differ, I question which of us is wrong. It is eery how some of it went more or less the same. I'll be looking at my own with some consideration of changing to be more in line with yours, and I'd recommend you to do the same. I'd probably like to playtest this to see how it works. I will say that I'm unsure of the subclasses; they change the feel and flavor so much that they don't seem to belong on the same chassis. That's just my opinion though, and I have more than once had vastly different subclasses in my own homebrew.

[mk333]

Question:

To do this properly, we'd probably have to build subclass mechanics into the class, because that's what 5E classes do. So when we submit, should the class come with a default subclass?

Also, what about spells? The core 5E spell list isn't exactly extensive.

[sengmeng]

Question:

To do this properly, we'd probably have to build subclass mechanics into the class, because that's what 5E classes do. So when we submit, should the class come with a default subclass?

Also, what about spells? The core 5E spell list isn't exactly extensive.

To answer succinctly, the more complete and in line with 5e's existing mechanics, the better, though new spells and new subsystems are welcome.

However, be aware that voting is just people on the forums who can pick their favorite using whatever criteria they want. You don't "need" to do anything, but I don't think you'll be a contender for winning with no subclass or even a single subclass if all the other entries have two or more and actually look like play-ready classes. On the other hand, if all you want is feedback, that's okay too and no one will be mad if you don't do subclasses or don't want to add spells back in from 3.5

[MoleMage]

Question:

To do this properly, we'd probably have to build subclass mechanics into the class, because that's what 5E classes do. So when we submit, should the class come with a default subclass?

Also, what about spells? The core 5E spell list isn't exactly extensive.

Most class submissions come complete with two or more subclasses, though on occasion someone will make a class with just one subclass. As for me, completeness is one of my top priorities when I am voting at the end of a contest, and I consider the inclusion of subclasses to be a part of that. As far as spells go, you can add more if you like, but unless they are central to a class's identity I don't think anyone will comment on their loss.

[MoleMage]

Since we have renewed interest with only a week to go, and since sengmeng is the only one with a fully complete class so far, how do we feel about an extension? Obviously this contest has been running for a long time but we did lose some of that while the forums were down.

[Heavenblade]

Im coocking something up and while I could finish it in the deadline it would be really nice to get an extension to have some time to refine things

[MoleMage]

I've decided to push the contest up an extra two weeks. That puts the deadline at April 19th. I won't be pushing this contest any further, so newcomers and old hats alike should get their edits/entries in before then!

[PairO'Dice Lost]

I'm glad of the extension, 'cause I forgot to subscribe when the contest was started and just came across it again.

I've got two different ideas, both from 3e:

1) The Eidolon (Ghostwalk), turning you into a ghostly badass with various ghostly powers. Subclasses are the Poltergeist (telekinesis, debuffs, and ectoplasmic construction), Haunt (fear, possession, and better incorporeality), and Eidoloncer (bit of a jack of all trades).

1) The Martial Adept (Tome of Battle), being to the Battlemaster what the Battlemaster is to the Champion. Subclasses are the Crusader (tankiness), Swordsage (breadth), and Warblade (offense).

Which would folks like to see more?

[MoleMage]

I vote Martial Adept, myself. I'm fond of subsystems.

[Lanth Sor]

I just updated to making the Vampire of 4e Heroes of Shadow. Please let me know if there are any major issues with mechanics.

[Breccia]

Yesterday I added the Cavalier, from waaaaaaay back in the day.

[MoleMage]

Feedback again!


I hadn't realized there were monster classes in 4e. I slightly regret missing that, but not enough to go back and play 4e instead of Pathfinder during that era.


This class gives so much stuff right at level one. I know that a lot of those are essential to the vampire of it all, but you could space them out over the first three levels or so. Undeath and Vampire Weaknesses could be rolled into one feature called Vampire Nature.
On the subject of Vampire Weaknesses, I think it would be cooler if they were spread out across the whole class, so the vampire gaining powers comes with an equal tradeoff.
Virile Soul is probably too strong for such an early level, even considering the lack of healing. The other classes that get regeneration effects don't get them until the high teens at least.
Life Blood Healing's health gained from excess hit dice should be moved to Vampiric Consumption, since Vampiric Consumption is the source of the extra hit dice.
Deceptive Power's Charisma to melee damage is probably not necessary, as the Vampire can afford to focus on Strength or Dexterity. I would also improve the damage of unarmed strikes to 1d4 or 1d6 here.
Vampiric Reflexes could be named Unarmored Defense, to line up with the Monk and Barbarian features (and multiclassing rules).
Savage Lash: I would suggest making the bonus damage effect 1d12 instead of 2d8, because I like abilities to use only a single die size.
I suggest moving Strength of Blood to level 5 so it isn't at the same level as an ASI. This isn't a big deal though, Monks and Clerics get features on ASI levels.
Put the Shapechange improvements on the class table.
Noble Vampire's secondary effect is unclear to me. Do you get just one hit die, or if you roll 12 damage and the target has a d6 hit die do you get 2?
The Vampiric Powers all look about right; though Nightwalker Form is basically mandatory for level 20. You could remedy that by putting a couple other level 20 powers that are comparable to it. I look forward to seeing the rest.
Velkyr: Glorious Predation's effect is difficult to follow.


Overall I'm impressed. Some of the wording could be cleaned up, and I am concerned about the front-loading of the class, but this is a good framework and I look forward to seeing more powers and bloodlines.



I'm actually really impressed at how distinct from the fighter this is.


Proficiencies: I don't think there's any precedent for proficiency with all Martial Weapons but not all Simple Weapons, or Medium and Heavy armor but not Shields. I don't know that there's a strong need for that; all of the most important class features only work with Strength weapons anyway. I would categorize Chariots under Land Vehicle proficiency.
Saves: Strength and Charisma are both traditionally "secondary" saves (along with Int), as opposed to "primary" saves (Dex, Con, Wis). Classes should have one of each.
Charging Attack: I like it! It's like Sneak Attack with different conditions.
Mount Prowess: I was going to be worried about the class not getting a mount, but you've written all of the features to be usable without a mount.
Lead from the Front, Excelsior: These are good leadership abilities that don't step on the toes of Protection Fighting Style.
Noble Parry/Riposte: Simple defensive abilities.
Knight: Never Give Up. I normally don't like very narrowly defined abilities in 5e, but I think this one works for what it's doing.
Knight: By My Command should probably be incompatible with Charging Attack. Basically as it is Charging Attack has no drawback any longer.
Knight: Never Surrender. Is this a Galaxy Quest reference?
Knight: For Honor and Glory could probably refresh on a long rest.
Stormer: Punch Through. The first part seemed a little weak considering the base class already ignores opportunity attacks with any weapon you'd want to use Charging Attack with anyway, but the second part is a pretty nice boost.
Stormer: Trample using an unarmed attack is pretty limiting, at most that will do 6 damage, which at level 13 is not a whole lot. However, the rest of the effects of the ability are probably worth it on their own.
Stormer: I like Plow the Road as a capstone.
Dervish: Proficiencies. Per my note above, I don't know that this is strictly necessary, but if you decide to keep the unusual proficiency layout above this is good.
Dervish: Leaping Strike. This is the feature that made me want to play this class, more than any of the previous one.
Dervish: Downward Strike. I have the same concern here as I did about Stormer's Trample. An unmodified unarmed strike is just not very strong for a full martial class.
Dervish: Sirocco. Can you use Sirocco again if you knock the second target down? If so, does it just chain until you don't knock a target down? That could be a little crazy with a bunch of weaker enemies.
Dervish: Arcing Shot is an interesting effect. Odd that it doesn't have an upper limit on duration, but ignoring a shield/cover is situational enough that I'm not going to fuss about it.
Dervish: Does Whirling Strike(II) give Charging Attack damage on the extra attacks? As an ability, option 1 is very strong, and option 2 is crazy strong if it allows the charging attack on the extra attacks but okay otherwise.
Dervish: Thundering Shot. This kinda pales in comparison to Whirling Strike, but since they are on different resources it isn't exactly competing.



Very well done. It's a clean class, it has a clear identity and mechanics, and it carves its own niche out quite well.

[Breccia]

First of all, let me thank you for your quick and extensive feedback. And I'm glad you like it!


Feedback again!



Proficiencies: The class should have read that they had proficiency with shields, but not light armor. That lack, and the Simple weapons, I admit are probably unnecessary and included for flavor. In addition to overly-European historical context, it's also based on outdated Edition mechanics, all of which was hidden behind "It's not like they were going to use them anyhow". The idea of a mounted Cavalier riding into battle at the front of the lines wielding a woodcutter's hatchet didn't feel right, but that's not necessarily reason to outright ban it, either. I might remove those gaps, but also add some new restrictions to the Knight using a club or a Stormer using padded.
Saves: I'll be honest, you picked up on what could have been the hardest decision I made designing this class. Baseline Cavaliers have no real reason to have high Dex or Wis. Con made sense, but since Cavaliers are strongly encouraged to wear big armor, big weapons, and melee attacks, Str seemed more important. An option I considered, but eventually ruled out, was making the Knight proficient in Wis, the Stormer gets Con, and the Dervish gets Dex. But that would be three. Or, having them go through levels 1 and 2 with only one save. They all felt wrong. I don't suppose it's okay to "buy" a third, weaker saving throw by sacrificing Simple weapons and Light armor?
Mount Prowess: Indeed, once I decided to write up the Cavalier the question immediately rose: what happens when they're on foot? Simply put, the game is called DUNGEONS and Dragons, and a lot of things take place inside. So rather than penalize them for being on foot, it became bonuses while mounted.
Knight: It took me a while to decide if you could Charging Attack and also By My Command. In the end, I asked "What would a Rogue/Battlemaster do?" And the answer was "Use Sneak Attack and Commander's Strike constantly." Charging Attack still requires straight-line movement towards your foe, and a lot of battles in D&D devolve into the tank standing there smacking the monster over and over. Simply put, the situations in which the Knight would Charging Attack every round and also use By My Command to burn through the party's available Reactions didn't seem too common, so I decided not to block what few there were. I might change my mind in the next 2 weeks, but I haven't yet.
Knight: Never Give Up/Never Surrender. Is 100% Galaxy Quest reference!
Knight: For Honor and Glory basically asks for a "flavored" Long Rest. I admit the restriction is probably unnecessary, but I wanted this nearly religious effect to have a different feel. Code of Honor probably means I don't need to do that, so, I'll probably change it.
Stormer: Trample. Since Trample is a Bonus Attack, it makes sense to upgrade the attack a little while on foot.
Dervish: Proficiencies. The Dervish was my addition for non-European, non-Samurai horsemen. Their focus on ranged weapons suggested a higher Dex and, therefore, Light Armor was a must. As above, they might not need Light Armor handed to them, because it might become baseline.
Dervish: Downward Strike. Unlike the Stormer, the Dervish can't use a mount attack here, so I completely see your point. Perhaps both Trample and Downward Strike will get the same flat bonus damage, which again, is not intended to be very high anyhow.
Dervish: Sirocco. The intent is a second attack, but that's it. I can clean up the wording to make that more clear.
Dervish: Arcing Shot has no duration, because if the target just sits in the same spot, then I see no reason for the effect to end.
Dervish: Whirling Strike(II) does not give Charging Attack bonus damage on the remaining attacks. Even for a single-use, that would be excessive. I can clean up the wording to make that more clear.
Dervish: Thundering Shot. You didn't mention it, but I suppose I should clean this up too: you can't Thundering Shot and Charging Attack in the same turn. Like Whirling Strike(II) the standard rule is "one Charging Attack per turn" and this doesn't specifically bypass it. You could, however, Thundering Shot, close the gap, then Extra Attack, which like Whirling Strike(II) doesn't seem that bad for a single-use.


Thanks for the in-depth analysis!

[Lanth Sor]

Feedback again!

I hadn't realized there were monster classes in 4e. I slightly regret missing that, but not enough to go back and play 4e instead of Pathfinder during that era.


I strongly suggest finding what 4e books you can just for review. Heroes of Shadow was made just before the essentials line. The essentials like had classes more similar to 5e.


This class gives so much stuff right at level one. I know that a lot of those are essential to the vampire of it all, but you could space them out over the first three levels or so. Undeath and Vampire Weaknesses could be rolled into one feature called Vampire Nature.


Inherently that makes me hurt. As a designer I agree. The several abilities was an artifact of the 4e class.


On the subject of Vampire Weaknesses, I think it would be cooler if they were spread out across the whole class, so the vampire gaining powers comes with an equal tradeoff.


I will think about it.


Virile Soul is probably too strong for such an early level, even considering the lack of healing. The other classes that get regeneration effects don't get them until the high teens at least.


The regeneration was included so early, as I have found no core method to heal undead. Personally I find this to be a horrible state of affairs. Now I would be open to suggestions about what level would make sense.


Life Blood Healing's health gained from excess hit dice should be moved to Vampiric Consumption, since Vampiric Consumption is the source of the extra hit dice.


System artifact. :D


Deceptive Power's Charisma to melee damage is probably not necessary, as the Vampire can afford to focus on Strength or Dexterity. I would also improve the damage of unarmed strikes to 1d4 or 1d6 here.


I actually didn't give them die because i gave them charisma. This meant they do roughly average monk damage at later levels.


Vampiric Reflexes could be named Unarmored Defense, to line up with the Monk and Barbarian features (and multiclassing rules).


:( But I like the fluff, but your probably right.


Savage Lash: I would suggest making the bonus damage effect 1d12 instead of 2d8, because I like abilities to use only a single die size.


Seems like a good choice, the ability in 4e has bonus die as 2d8. :D


I suggest moving Strength of Blood to level 5 so it isn't at the same level as an ASI. This isn't a big deal though, Monks and Clerics get features on ASI levels.


I'll look at it.


Put the Shapechange improvements on the class table.


ok.


Noble Vampire's secondary effect is unclear to me. Do you get just one hit die, or if you roll 12 damage and the target has a d6 hit die do you get 2?


The latter, I rewrote it.


The Vampiric Powers all look about right; though Nightwalker Form is basically mandatory for level 20. You could remedy that by putting a couple other level 20 powers that are comparable to it. I look forward to seeing the rest.


I hope to have 3-5 ready for then.


Velkyr: Glorious Predation's effect is difficult to follow.


I rewrote it, I think should make more sense now.


Overall I'm impressed. Some of the wording could be cleaned up, and I am concerned about the front-loading of the class, but this is a good framework and I look forward to seeing more powers and bloodlines.


A second bloodline is planned, but more bloodlines are going to be last.

[Leathalsandwich]

I'm glad of the extension, 'cause I forgot to subscribe when the contest was started and just came across it again.

I've got two different ideas, both from 3e:

1) The Eidolon (Ghostwalk), turning you into a ghostly badass with various ghostly powers. Subclasses are the Poltergeist (telekinesis, debuffs, and ectoplasmic construction), Haunt (fear, possession, and better incorporeality), and Eidoloncer (bit of a jack of all trades).

1) The Martial Adept (Tome of Battle), being to the Battlemaster what the Battlemaster is to the Champion. Subclasses are the Crusader (tankiness), Swordsage (breadth), and Warblade (offense).

Which would folks like to see more?

I also vote Martial Adept

[Leathalsandwich]

Here what I find interesting about the soul knife:

It tries to keep the original mechanics for Psionics as seen in the UA and previous editions. Many home brews have done this and the soul knife has made it simpler than others, but at what cost?

I think it loses the grandeur of Psionics. the complication of using just your mind to do “magic”.

Originally, I too wanted to do this, but I realized something. One, someone else was doing a psionic class, but that was afterward. Also, simplicity is the main selling point of 5e, and my system was far from it.

I congratulate you for making it so well and fleshed out, I can’t wait to find out whose is most liked.

[BlueHairedKat]

Etiquette question: I've been itching to have a crack at a 5e warlord for some time now and this seems like the perfect opportunity. Given that another user has already suggested they're attempting such a thing, would that be poor form?

[AdAstra]

Etiquette question: I've been itching to have a crack at a 5e warlord for some time now and this seems like the perfect opportunity. Given that another user has already suggested they're attempting such a thing, would that be poor form?

As the user in question, I have no issues whatsoever with you taking a crack at it. If anyone else has issues feel free to voice them, but in my mind you're good to go.

[heavyfuel]

I actually wrote this homebrew like 5 years ago and recently came back to 5e and was thinking about re-writing it. This was the perfect opportunity :smallbiggrin:

As such, I present thee:

The 5e Duskblade! (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YDbxueP0yV4hXj28lPY1zN9i1W88lNqsYBSekZr2ukY/edit#)

[MoleMage]

I actually wrote this homebrew like 5 years ago and recently came back to 5e and was thinking about re-writing it. This was the perfect opportunity :smallbiggrin:

As such, I present thee:

The 5e Duskblade! (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YDbxueP0yV4hXj28lPY1zN9i1W88lNqsYBSekZr2ukY/edit#)

Neat! Make sure to add it to the submissions thread so it gets counted at voting time.

Link: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?606841-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-X-Blast-from-the-Past

[heavyfuel]

Neat! Make sure to add it to the submissions thread so it gets counted at voting time.

Link: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?606841-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-X-Blast-from-the-Past

Oops! Didn't realize there were two threads. Will post threre now

[Breccia]

I suppose it's only fair that I look over


I love the general idea. It's definitely unique. And I don't have a lot of concerns about it, either.
Avatar of the Wild seems like a pretty hefty power jump even by 20th level standards.
Wild Bloom would be far more useful if you got one back at a short rest.
Adding +2 to AC should be compared to barkskin. Nobody likes barkskin. But, it's possible to get a decent AC with only light armor, a shield, a cloak, high Dex, etc etc. and a stacking +2 on top of that could be a problem.
Why doesn't Growth Surge let you reduce?
My biggest issue is Wrathful Strikes. It's at level 6 not 5, which is already a mark against it. But what about Extra Attack? What if you have both features? Might I recommend replacing this with something related but different, something like "you can use your Bonus Action to make a special Attack" with special effects, energy damage perhaps? That way a Fighter/Totemist 5/6 could make three attacks, and also, waiting an extra level might pay off with a non-standard special move of some kind. And yes, since you asked, I adore mutliclassing and keep an extra eye on such things.

[MoleMage]

I suppose it's only fair that I look over


I love the general idea. It's definitely unique. And I don't have a lot of concerns about it, either.
Avatar of the Wild seems like a pretty hefty power jump even by 20th level standards.
Wild Bloom would be far more useful if you got one back at a short rest.
Adding +2 to AC should be compared to barkskin. Nobody likes barkskin. But, it's possible to get a decent AC with only light armor, a shield, a cloak, high Dex, etc etc. and a stacking +2 on top of that could be a problem.
Why doesn't Growth Surge let you reduce?
My biggest issue is Wrathful Strikes. It's at level 6 not 5, which is already a mark against it. But what about Extra Attack? What if you have both features? Might I recommend replacing this with something related but different, something like "you can use your Bonus Action to make a special Attack" with special effects, energy damage perhaps? That way a Fighter/Totemist 5/6 could make three attacks, and also, waiting an extra level might pay off with a non-standard special move of some kind. And yes, since you asked, I adore mutliclassing and keep an extra eye on such things.




Because of how I updated investment, a passive boost to invested essentia is much weaker than it would have been in the 3.5 version of meldshaping. 2 essentia will be, at the outside, maybe +4 damage dealt, -2 damage taken, or +4 to a skill check.
I will bump Wild Bloom to short rest. Looking at it again it's not giving as much healing as it could do.
Oakenhide at max Dex matches to Defensive fighting style, assuming equal access to magic gear and shields etc. (Full Plate w/Defensive: 19 AC, Studded Leather w/Max Dex and Oakenhide: 19 AC). It's not the most exciting feature, true, but I think it's okay for balance.
Reduce didn't make sense thematically for the subclass. There isn't a strong balance reason not to allow it, I suppose.
College of Valor and Bladesinger both get their Extra Attack at 6th level. I didn't want to tie Wrathful Strikes to Bonus Action because of Primal Rage's short duration, but making it a special effect attack is a good idea. I'll look into it. I might also just drop it to a normal Extra Attack.


Thanks for the feedback! I'm just now getting ready to do a balance pass on all the melds (wrote my balance breakpoints after writing all of the melds like an idiot), so those will be cleaned up over the next couple of days.

[Breccia]

Cavalier updated as suggested before.

I'm still not happy with the saving throws, but I don't think I was ever going to be.

[AdAstra]

Oof. Finally done. I think after this contest is done I'll probably submit this to the forum at large so I can make revisions I probably won't get a chance for in the contest.

[BlueHairedKat]

You wait ages for a Warlord...

Feedback gratefully accepted, and like my esteemed colleague above, I'll likely give it more love after the contest than during.

[MoleMage]

I want to do feedback on the new entries and the revisions since my last feedback, but I probably won't have time today and possibly not tomorrow, and there's only a day left to do anything with it if I give it Saturday. I'll still do it but I just want to apologize for not giving it in a timely fashion this time.

EDIT: I was feeling unwell this weekend, so that feedback will come during the voting period. Sorry again for not getting to it when it could be helpful.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

The Martial Adept is finally up, with mere hours to spare. Lots of frantic last-minute typing goin' on.

The next time I have the crazy idea to convert an entire sourcebook for a contest like this, someone please slap me upside the head and remind me not to.

[MoleMage]

Voting thread is up!

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?610753-D-amp-D-Base-Class-Contest-X-Voting-Thread&p=24461846#post24461846

[MoleMage]

Alright, belated feedback doesn't help you get ready pre-vote, but I know a lot of you plan to revise after the voting ends so hopefully it can help you there.


It's like a whole new class!


While I appreciate that Psychic Awakening allows the class to fill a bigger psionics thematic space, I would rather see that handled by the introduction of additional related classes than one class with a choice about what ability score to use. That said, the additional features associated with this are solid and I like those.
Mind Blade: It's still essential to the identity of the class, and it's still functioning. Collapse being split out into its own ability is nice, as it makes it clear there's an extra option available.
Power Points: I think that using the Spell Point variant from the DMG would probably be better balanced compared to Paladin or Ranger spellcasting, but I think that using the Points=Level ratio is cleaner. Since the power list is largely utility with a couple of odd-man-out damage types, it should be fine (manifesting is a perk, not bread and butter).
Psychic Knight: Psionic Smite is going to trail behind similar smite effects because of the limited ability to create slots afforded by the class.
Energy Blade and Extra Attack (2, 3) should probably not come from the same class. When it's gained, it's not too bad (comparable to a weird-damage type Greatsword with some extra utility to compensate for no Great Weapon Fighting Style or GWM), the scaling on Mind Blade damage means that eventually you're outpacing Great Weapon Fighting Style with a one-handed light weapon. If you include Collapse, the "free" routine for a Soulknife outpaces most other martials. Alternately, if the Soulknife can prepare or on the third round of combat on, the dual-wielding mindblade can basically make a greatsword-equivalent attack as a bonus action.
I like the Meditation mechanic as a way of expanding class versatility.



Overall it's a lot better than the last version. There's a few nitpicks I still retain as noted above, but I'd probably let it at my table in most situations as-is (and the other situations I'd probably not let any homebrew).



This will be short, since it looks like the core class has kept its features mostly as they were.


Overall, the readability and flow of how features are presented is much improved. I especially like the new formatting for Kindred Curse (I don't remember its old name).
Vampiric Powers looks like you've added a lot more. I won't get into all of them, but I appreciate the "pick your own capstone" style for the powers.
Bloodlines: Both 11th level features are identical except in how they are justified. That could be a part of the base class with a description saying that the exact method varies with bloodline. If you planned to add other bloodlines lacking that feature, ignore this comment.



It's still a well-represented vampire, but it would be difficult to play in a normal party. Probably fits though, as vampires would be difficult to work with as a normal group of adventurers.



This will be short, since it looks like the changes have been smaller in scope.


Looks like you gave them the expanded proficiencies discussed. I like it, and I also like the limitation of martial melee weapons.
The new mechanic for saving throw proficiencies is very much nonstandard. I don't dislike it on its own merits, but I'm hesitant to support it. I'll split the difference and say it's probably fine for homebrew as long as it isn't used to justify other new content being even further afield.
Clarifications on the abilities previous discussed make them much clearer. The new Trample/Downward Strike mechanics make them a lot more appealing to use.


This was my favorite of the contest, as seen in the voting thread. I think the amount of variety you managed to extract from Charging Attack specifically accounts for a lot of that. It's a shockingly deep feature once subclasses are explored.



This will be short, since it looks like changes have been mostly smaller in scope.


You still have the table showing Quickened Recovery, while the class features have the new Surge of Power ability there. For the record, Surge of Power is by far my preferred option of the two, being much more dynamic and unique. However, since it requires a bonus action (and so do roughly half of the features it could conceivably make free), it leaves Soul Knives without a way to benefit from it until level 20 (Shattering Strikes), and Wu Jen can't use it at all, owing to the "treat variable psi point costs as if you had spent no points on it" clause. I would change the Surge to require no action at the start of your turn, and I would change the variable cost rule to treat them as if you had spent the minimum amount instead of zero.
Soulknife: Hone the Blade still doesn't specify a duration. I like the new version of Shattering Strikes a lot more than the old instant-death version.
Wu Jen: Arcane Affinity doesn't need to specify that your chosen damage type is your affinity for Wu Jen features any more (you've removed all features that refer to your affinity).
Psionic Discovery: With the spell list, I'm less worried about it not being impactful enough (Destructive Wave is nice for anyone), but locking yourself to a single 5th level spell when you hit level 18 doesn't feel good. I'd allow the Mystic to swap out their spell known through some means (24 hours spent in meditation, as part of a long rest, as part of a short rest, just so long as they can change their choice out at some point).


I think it's in an okay place. I'd like to see it with a higher psi progression, as being effectively a half-caster with casting as its primary contribution might feel a little weak into the higher levels. Other than that though it functions and that's probably the most important thing for a class to do.


Duskblade, both Warlords, and Martial Adept will come later in the week when I have another chunk of time to sit and read. Always a pleasure seeing all of the entries.

[MoleMage]

Alright votes are in an points are tallied, let's call this contest!

In 3rd place, with 8 points earned, we have that gishiest of gish, heavyfuel's Duskblade. Cast your spells through your weapon! Break through magic resistance (with your weapon)!

In 2nd place, with 9 points earned, we have a throwback to Magic of Incarnum, MoleMage's Totemist. Take on aspects of nature, from animals to elementals to plants to even a fungus!

And in 1st place, with 10 points earned, we have the recreation of Tome of Battle rolled into one last-minute-but-still-complete entry, it's PairO'DiceLost's Martial Adept! What schools of combat will you focus on?


All in all this contest was very close, with only a point in difference almost all the way down. We had a lot of fun and interesting classes, whether recreating a classic as faithfully as possible or reimagining a concept that once had clumsy mechanics.


As far as theme goes, the write-in entry of Signatures--characters with a personal iconic trait like a preferred spell, a magic heirloom, or an utter devotion to one type of weapon--pulled in three votes, edging out Heroes of Myth and Dragons both at 2. I'll put the new contest chat and entry threads shortly.

Voting has concluded and I'm working on the new threads now.

EDIT:
New Chat: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?612096-D-amp-D-Base-Class-Contest-XI-Chat-Thread&p=24502350#post24502350

New Entries: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?612097-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XI-Signature-Creation&p=24502355#post24502355

[Breccia]

Voting has concluded and I'm working on the new threads now.

Ah, lost again! (snaps fingers)

As always, it was fun to participate, and there were some really good entries! Looking forward to the next one!

[MoleMage]

One last round of feedback should do it.


While the class has very solid gameplay themes I'd like to see more fluff for this.


Blade Trick is nice; I've done the "like Prestidigitation but it's a class feature and more specialized" thing before too.
Artificer spellcasting seems appropriate.
Arcane Channeling: if this was published in a book I would not like that it's locked to such specific spells (what if it gets an expanded spell list later from other sources?), but as a standalone it's probably cleaner than trying to write a whole lot of very specific conditions.
Gish Archetype: while a fun name in a meta-sense, it really only makes sense in-setting if the class has ties to the Githyanki. I don't remember the classic lore for these guys so I guess that's possible, but either way the fluff text at the start of the class would help.
Quick Cast: Useful for getting a buff onto yourself without sacrificing a round of combat. In general it will be better to use Arcane Channeling on offense (which is fine).
Spell Power: Why one minute? The class has a whole kit based around using their swords and their spells in conjunction. I would let these effects last until the end of your next turn, to force the duskblade to keep working at tearing down magic resistance.



Abjurant Champion: You have banishment in the slot for 5th level spells, but it's only 4th level. Dispel Evil and Good maybe? Or perhaps Antilife Shell?
Abjurant Champion: There are a lot of powerful abjuration spells out there, but locked as it is behind 15 levels of Duskblade, you can't get up to the real game breakers like Antimagic Field or Prismatic Wall, so it's probably fine.
Abjurant Champion: For Arcane Boost you should specify the wording of magic resistance instead of referring to another feature normally limited to monsters (and Yuan-ti Purebloods).
Ruathar: Does Elven Word of Friendship only work on targets that hear you speak it, or after speaking it is it obvious that you are one to anybody in the know for 24 hours? As written it sounds like after speaking it any audible communication counts, but I'm guessing it's intended that they have to hear your original utterance for it to function.
Seeker: Arcane Strike is going to be less desirable than a channeled attack spell in a huge number of circumstances. A first level slot could potentially deal 4d4 (avg 10) force damage (TWF, Extra Attack, Opportunity Attack), while a Chromatic Orb of that level is going to deal 3d8 (avg 13.5). True, you can combine the two of them, which presents a different problem of allowing this subclass to nova too strongly in a game where nova is already favored.
Spellblade: Hardy should specify that it only applies when you take a level in this class. Though a 7-level dip for +1HP per level is not that attractive.
Spellblade: Shrug it Off's DC should increase each time it is used, like Relentless Rage does.
Swiftblade: Gaining Dexterity saving throws at level 3 feels excessive to me. The earliest any other class grants a new primary saving throw is the Gloomstalker Ranger getting Wisdom saves at level 7.



A lot of the features seem to be teetering on the edge of balance; while they aren't strictly better than similar features, they're often conditionally better than them, and even when they aren't they are ripe for synergistic effects with other features. However, you addressed this by putting most of the effects that could be exploited with multiclassing too deep in the class for that to be a viable option.

Overall I think it's a good class (clearly, as I voted for it); I'm just worried that its gameplay would overshadow other classes at the table (knowing that your paladin is tankier than the duskblade doesn't help much if you never get a chance to show off that toughness).



In my head, I'm going to keep seeing Warblade whenever I see the Warlord class. Forgive me if I accidentally get it wrong in these notes.


This would be the only class to get heavy armor and martial weapons baseline without a d10 hit die. Not that there's a huge pool to compare since otherwise it's just Fighter/Paladin.
Gambits: I like the idea, but I'd like to see a couple more of them especially if they use either Leadership die or save DC.
You don't have Archetype selection in the feature list (very minor detail).
Warlord's Leadership: Other than the concentration requirement, this is better than Bardic Inspiration because it doesn't have a limited number of uses. Balance-wise this is okay since the Warlord doesn't get 9 levels of spells to play with like the bard does, but it does feel a little odd to have an iconic feature that's just a superior version of another class's iconic feature.
Cunning Feint: I appreciate anything that improves the Help action.
Warlord's Presence: My gut tells me this will slow down play, with everyone using their reaction to do something extra and sometimes rolling two additional dice as a result. That might not be a problem at all tables though.
Breakthrough: There probably doesn't need to be both Breakthrough and Warlord's Presence on the same level, as they both fill a similar purpose (boosting nearby allies during normal action). I personally like Breakthrough more.



Tactician: Tactical Genius should state somewhere that it's gained at level 17. It should also mention whether the Leadership die granted requires concentration like with Warlord's Leadership (I would rule that it does, but the Warlord can concentrate on new dice granted by this feature without losing old ones so long as he doesn't fail a concentration check).
Marshal: Made of Iron could probably grant HP on every level-up instead of every other level up.
Marshal: Hold the Line also needs to state that it's gained at level 17.
Firebrand, Inspiring Eloquence: I would remove the ability to subtract the result. It's strange that being inspiring would make someone worse at a saving throw.
Firebrand: Ultima Ratio seems like it should limit those actions to the options provided by Haste. Other than that I'm okay with it.


Overall, I think it borrows a lot from the bard, but that's not necessarily a bad thing in a mundane support class.



Going to try to give this class review without comparison to AdAstra's Warlord that I just did. I should have broken these up across two review sessions but I didn't plan ahead.


As a first level class, it doesn't have a lot going on. A non-combat feature would be nice here.
Inspiring Word has an incredibly short duration; unless that player is one round from dying to ongoing damage, or they have some way to force creatures to attack them, it has a high likelihood of being wasted if the enemies decide to attack someone else, or even if they just miss their attack.
Size Up is a nice combat boost. Amusingly, it makes me want to buy a spyglass on my warlord so I can observe creatures from farther away than they can observe me.
Masterful Command turns Advantage into a sort of Super Advantage (roll 3, take best), or if there's Disadvantage canceling out turns the result into a sort of lesser advantage (may reroll but must use new result), if I understood it right. It's probably fine, but it might have some interesting consequences regarding critical hits (normal Advantage gives roughly 9% chance to crit, this would boost that to roughly 14%).
Inveterate Strategist penalizes the Warlord for selecting a large number of tactics that don't require the attack action. A more generally useful feature might be more appropriate here.
Tenacity is nice (a sort of group-shared Legendary Resistance), but 1/rest is pretty weak for a level 20 feature.



Tactics: Paint the Bullseye is strange. If I hit a creature multiple times, do multiple attacks gain advantage on them? If not, the each time wording is misleading.
Tactics: The "Study of" set should specify whether you need spell components or not (especially for Chromatic Orb which has an expensive material component). It seems like it's meant to be a sort of innate casting so I assumed that the components weren't required.



Banner of the Fox: Commander's Strike should grant limited options for the additional action (specifically it should not allow casting spells or making multiple attacks). Haste is a good comparison point probably.
Banner of the Owl: Not Friendly Fireproof?
Banner of the Owl: Heightened Arcana requires that you have taken one of the "Study of" tactics. As with Inveterate Strategist, this feature should function for all warlords even if they did not take specific Tactics. In this case, allowing the Banner of the Owl to grant non-cantrip spells known (without spell slots) would be a solution.


This is a really compelling class. The wide variety of Tactics allows you to build it to suit your needs, and I think I'd have fun playing it.



I find myself relating to your comment about translating a whole book, but in all honesty I chose the one class in MoI that didn't share features with the other two. I just translated a mechanic.


I really enjoy the simple symmetry of each Discipline having a pattern to its maneuvers.


Favored Discipline: Devoted Spirit gives unlimited healing over time, provided you have something to attack.
Favored Discipline: Diamond Mind is relatively weak since the class already wants good physical abilities and it does nothing to replace damage. Even if you built specifically for Initiator Checks instead of attack rolls, you're losing dice that could be better spent on maneuvers that have native initiator checks.
Favored Discipline: Iron Heart is too strong. I would allow it instead to deal [Best] damage to targets within 5 feet of your original target who are also within your reach, and limit it to melee attacks.
Favored Discipline: Tiger Claw allows you to make attacks with a shield, but 5e doesn't have standard rules for making attacks with a shield. Including a small section about how to make attacks with a shield somewhere would improve this.



Stance: Greater Devoted Spirit's save DC is probably too severe, considering that a lot of larger monsters even at that level can do more than 20 damage in a single attack, and their damage will scale faster than your initiator check.
Stance: Stone Dragon technically applies to any check, not just grapple checks, as it is written. Its intent is clear enough that this is just an amusing side thought though.
Stance: Tiger Claw seems less impactful than the others across the board, though it does offer better non-combat utility.



Crusader only has one Saving Throw proficiency until level 11.
Crusader: Steely Resolve. I'd like to see this get an upgrade later on where you can choose to only receive some of the delayed damage each turn (maybe taking all of the damage in the pool, up to a maximum of half its size?). It should also specify whether the damage transfers to you at the start or end of your turn.
Swordsage: Ki Defense comes too early (all three good saves right away at 1st level?), and as a subclass feature is not limited by generic multiclassing rules about saving throws. The AC bonus is also better than Monk Unarmored Defense in every way (you add it to Light Armor, compatible with shields).
Warlord: Battle Cunning has the same problem as Favored Discipline: Diamond Mind except for the bit about substituting Intelligence save for Dexterity save does not (as the subclass grants proficiency in the former but not the latter).



Maneuver Dice: The terminology you implemented here is really useful, and I wish I had used something like that when writing the Theurge four contests ago.
Maneuvers: It isn't entirely clear whether maneuvers with multiple dice notations use a shared pool. If I use Firesnake, for example, am I spending one pool of dice and getting [Range], [Size], and [Total] from that singular pool, or am I breaking it into three pools? The former seems to be intended, but a point of clarification on multiple notations within a single technique would be nice.
Firesnake doesn't specify how far the snake can move.
Several Devoted Spirit maneuvers grant healing. Since Martial Adepts can all regain maneuvers outside of a rest, this means functionally unlimited healing out of combat (Rallying Cry doesn't even require you to have something to hit).
Time Stands Still has a similar problem as Favored Discipline: Iron Heart above (slightly better as it is expended after use).
Iron Heart Surge: First of all I'm so glad this made it back. My sorcery system also has an Iron Heart Surge. It's just too iconic. Second, it should probably duplicate dispel magic rather than counterspell.
Perfect Clarity does 122 damage if you dump all 11 dice into it, and you can use it every other turn. Probably a bit excessive.
War Master's Charge with 11 dice should probably be limited in the number of affected allies with a static range (Maybe a number of allies up to [Best] within 60 feet instead?).


Overall, I love the mechanics and features of the class, but I have several concerns about its balance point. The best point of comparison is the Rogue, who also gets a big chunk of d6s that can activate every round (or potentially twice in a round under certain conditions). A lot of maneuvers and features allow the adept to trade one maneuver die for more than 1d6 equivalent damage (anything that grants [Size] extra attacks, anything that has a duration, and arguably anything that affects an area). An overall balance pass might be in order.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Thanks for the Martial Adept review, MoleMage. :smallsmile:

The somewhat loose balance was something I noted when writing everything up, but was largely an intentional tradeoff in order to both convert as much material as possible in the time allotted (the entire purpose of the Favored Discipline ability was to compress common discipline themes like Desert Wind adding fire damage or Iron Heart granting extra attacks so the player could generate the old maneuvers themselves instead of having to write up every last one myself, for instance, and Crusader doesn't upgrade Steely Resolve and Swordsage gets Ki Defense early in order to fit equivalents to all of their class features in the limited number of subclass slots available) and to be faithful to the ToB classes' original points of distinction from the paladin, fighter, and monk (yes, the Crusader grants unlimited healing, but that's kind of its schtick and was a big deal when it was introduced to 3e as well).

The other non-wording-related issues you note were mostly due to some last-minute changes. For example, initiator checks originally went from proficiency to expertise somewhere in the mid levels so e.g. the Diamond Mind Favored Discipline was a notable upgrade from regular attack rolls, and originally maneuver dice scaled in size by level like Combat Superiority dice so e.g. Iron Heart's extra attacks and high max damage weren't so numerous or so high, but when I had to remove those in favor of other things I forgot to go back and tweak everything. If I ever decide to use this in a regular game or post it as its own thing, I'll definitely go back and polish things appropriately.