Help on creating a character

[zinycor]

Sup!

So Am going to be playing a AD&D 2e game, and am super excited about it (Being my first edition so many years ago), I rolled for stats and....

12, 12, 12, 8, 8, 7. The Gm allows for us to put the numbers on whatever stat we wish, however these stats are fairly lower than I expected, What would you recommend?

I was looking forward to play a Dart Fighter, but am not so sure anymore.

[Telok]

Reminds me of a character I had to play, way back in the day. Although you've got slightly better stats and a choice of where to put them.

Wizard can be done. Start middle age or older and manage the dex/con penalties carefully. But before doing that confirm with the DM that you'll have some leeway in what spells you get to try to learn (wiz with penalties from low str, dex, and con given vampritic touch as the only 3rd level spell available to learn) and that he isn't the type to lol-random nuke your spellbook.

You could be a heroic thief. You'll either be awesome by rolling high a lot or you get a new character fast.

Troll the party by being a cleric whose spells fail randomly. Bonus points if you start young enough to have an age penalty to wisdom. Definitely put a low score in strength so they know you aren't a warrior cleric.

Could try being a 12 charisma, 8 strength ranged fighter who constantly tries to hire more henchmen and leads from behind.

[opaopajr]

Those are solid stats, and with placement allowed you can start any of the main four classes (fighter, mage, cleric, thief). :smallsmile: AD&D 2e characters are a lot more robust than you think in getting things accomplished. HOWEVER, basic concepts like "party numbers and coordination matters!" and "never fight a fair fight if you don't have to!" are always on.

A Dart Fighter is VERY DOABLE with those stats, BUT everyone is going to needlessly compare it to 18/00 STR Dart Fighter (which is absurd negative nancy). The big question I have is why limit your Fighter to only one weapon? :smalleek: Its big advantage is its versatility in gear; why penalize yourself to seek a micro-niche?

First off, most of your stats are a delightful spread of middling with few to no pertinent modifiers. :smallamused: So feel free to quickly scribble up your character.

CHA - The only real warning I will give you to "optimize" is DO NOT dump the 7 in CHA: The Reaction Adjustment applies to EVERY SENTIENT ENCOUNTER. :smallcool: Better to be seen as inoffensive and then work your way up bribing into their better graces. Loyalty Base Penalty is also terrible for your party's additional NPCs.

INT - If your GM does use WPs/NWPs (Proficiencies) then there can be a strong argument to put a 12 in INT.

DEX - is unaffected positively or negatively by the spread from 7 thru 12... feel free to put any stat number here.

WIS - If you are worried about Charm and other mental spell effects, then don't put the 7 in WIS; 8 is fine.

CON - Having a high Sys Shock and Rez % is always good. Besides, each Rez permanently lowers CON by 1, so that's essentially your # of Resurrections. :smallwink:

STR - This is mostly Normal Range except for 7, but STR gives other advantages when it comes to carrying weight and other weighty obstacles.

Your gear spread will matter more as a Fighter, and the more STR the more diverse of a spread you can carry.

Have fun! Don't over think it! :smallcool:

[zinycor]

Thanks! I believe I will end up dropping the dart specialization in favor of multiclass thief. I like that it should give me a good amount choices to help even with bad stats.

Anyway, fighter/thief, any advice in regards to it?

[Telok]

See if the DM will allow backstabs with ranged weapons. A crossbow bolt in the back is a good opener to a fight.

Check your DMs views on the thief skills. Are they there as the basic sucess rate at normal tasks or are they pseudo-magical stunts that non-theives cannot match? Let that guide putting your points into the skills and how you use them. Example: your group comes across a trap and you describe sticking a crowbar between some gears to jam it, does the DM make you roll to place the crowbar correctly or do they have you roll only if the gears were a decoy that would have set off the trap?

If the DM wants you to roll the thief skill for anything you try then put points into one or two high value & chance skills and avoid tyring to do anything else. If the thief skills are essentially like saves where you only roll them after you've failed then consider spreading the points around.

Spread your weapon choices out and lean into the golf-bag-of-weapons trope. Hire a weapon caddy, pick up a silver mace, dagger, longsword, anti-charge pole arm, and a long ranged weapon. That's more than your starting 4 slots so decide if you can put off the were/skelly mace or the close quarters dagger. You also have the lowest penalty for non-proficent weapons, and the penalty is halved for weapons similar to one of your proficencies. So don't be afraid to take a -1 or-2 to hit to use the right weapon, after about level 4 you'll still be better with the right weapon you aren't proficent in than others characters with weapons they are proficent in.

[LibraryOgre]

When making any kind of thief, the best choice, IMO, is start as a specialist.

Pick a couple skills and get really good at those; the usual paring is FART/OL or MS/HS.

Depending on your race, a few things become available.

I would often use a dwarven fighter/thief who specialized in traps and boxes. Kitted out mostly like a dwarven warrior, they weren't much different. For that, I might go 12,12,9 (8+1), 12, 7, 7. You're gruff, clever, and have a temper. Very straightforward.

Halflings are also good for this, though you could also get back to your original concept... a halfling dart-thrower. 11, 13, 7, 12, 7, 8 Since you're a halfling, you get +1 with thrown weapons, which makes you nicely range-y. With halfling stealth, you can still be incredibly sneaky, without being a thief. Elven stealth lets you do the same.

And, of course, there's always the option of a gnomish thief, and going a bit engineer.

[zinycor]

Didn't really think about being a halfling... I like it.

I envision this character as someone others think to be an utter failure xD. So he went into a life of crime and now is looking for a chance of redemption after following orders his whole life.

EDIT: What about this character (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2106030)? (still on the making)

[Lord Torath]

The Bastard Sword is a size M weapon, which means, as a halfling, you'll always be wielding it two-handed, and only getting the one-handed stats for it. I'd recommend saving 10 gp (and 6 lbs of encumbrance) by getting a standard longsword. Note that you'll only be able to use your buckler when you're not in melee, since you need both hands wrapped around the hilt of your sword.

Do you have Infravision? Only some halflings do, and if you don't, I'd recommend grabbing a lantern (and some oil).

Other useful kit:
Chalk
Signal Whistle
Rope
Blanket
Soap

[zinycor]

The Bastard Sword is a size M weapon, which means, as a halfling, you'll always be wielding it two-handed, and only getting the one-handed stats for it. I'd recommend saving 10 gp (and 6 lbs of encumbrance) by getting a standard longsword. Note that you'll only be able to use your buckler when you're not in melee, since you need both hands wrapped around the hilt of your sword.

Do you have Infravision? Only some halflings do, and if you don't, I'd recommend grabbing a lantern (and some oil).

Other useful kit:
Chalk
Signal Whistle
Rope
Blanket
Soap

Thanks I believe implemented every single one of these changes :D

[Jay R]

I strongly recommend that a Thief multi-class with magic-user. Invisibility, Fly, Levitate and similar spells are incredibly useful for a Thief.

But consider the character a Thief With Benefits, not a real caster.

[zinycor]

I strongly recommend that a Thief multi-class with magic-user. Invisibility, Fly, Levitate and similar spells are incredibly useful for a Thief.

But consider the character a Thief With Benefits, not a real caster.

Wouldn't stats be too low to be a caster?

[LibraryOgre]

Wouldn't stats be too low to be a caster?

Nope. Elf or half-elf, just need a 9 Int and 9 Dex for mage/thief

[Lord Torath]

If you stick with a halfling character, your constitution also gives you a +3 to saves vs poison and magic. If you choose elf, you'll get 90% immunity to sleep and charm effects, plus ghoul paralysis.

If you want to Dual Class1 as a human, you need a 15 in your primary Prime Requisite and a 17 in your secondary Prime Requisite, but as a demi-human multi-class, you just need to meet the basic class requirements, which means 9 or higher for Fighter, Mage, Cleric, and Thief.

1 Dual classing is when you start as one class, gain at least one level in that class, then switch to a different class. Only humans can do it, and you give up all abilities from your first class -other than hit points - until you reach higher level in your new class than you were in your old class.

[Jay R]

Wouldn't stats be too low to be a caster?

The stats limit what he can eventually do as a high-level caster. With an INT of 12, he cannot learn spells above level 6. And he will not be able to learn as many spells.

But with Knock, he can choose not to develop picking locks.
With Fly and/or Silence, he can choose not to develop Move Silently.
With Invisibility, he can choose not to develop Hide in Shadows.
With Levitate and/or Fly, he can choose not to develop Climb Walls.

This gives you an opportunity to put all your thief skill points into very few skills, and develop them far more quickly.

I repeat, consider him a Thief With Benefits, not a real caster.

[Telok]

My only concern with a 2e thief/wizard would be that you'll basically have wizard hit points, thac0, and armor for the vast majority of your career. You're very much not going to want to get into melee with anyone. Check with the DM about how they want backstabs to work, you're even more fragile than the average thief and the x2 or x3 may never be worth it if you have to shank them with a dagger.

Eventually (exact level depending on the game but usually 8+) the difference in choosing the better class saves and ability to use two classes worth of exclusive magic items will come into play. But if you're starting at low level that could be a long time.

It's not that it's a bad idea. But wizard spell aquisition and thief skills are pretty much the next two biggest DM dependent issues/not issues after paladin problems. So check with your DM first.

[opaopajr]

Multiclass is tempting but the big issue is by-the-book you are low on HP, and should stay low statistically. You always divide your Hit Die (and HD is always by the class, eg: d4 wizard, d6 thief) by how many classes you have. This rapidly lowers your survivability rate.

That said many GMs like "Easy Mode" and give you full HD or full HD at 1st lvl... which negates a good deal of multiclass' big survival penalty. :smallwink:

Then there's racial level caps, which is also often ignored (sadly).

A single class Thief is probably the fastest way to level up and a great way to explore the game. That and remember your Thieves' Skills are for exceptional abilities, and are a second roll attempt, like a safety net. e.g.: Anyone can Hide behind something, not everyone can Hide in just a Shadow, etc.