Evolving Moon Druid Tactics from Level to Level

[Yakmala]

After playing nearly every other class 5E has to offer, I finally decided to make a Druid for the latest campaign I've joined.

My character, a Half Orc Moon Druid, currently level 3, is doing fine so far. I've done plenty of research into the various Wild Shape options available at each level.

What I'm more interested in is how experienced Moon Druid players evolve their tactics over time as they level up. How and when are you spending your Wild Shapes as opposed to relying on spells for support and control? Which concentration spells do you tend to cast before entering Wild Shape and how does that evolve over time? Are there gap levels where your current CR limit on Wild Shape make it ineffective but you haven't reached the next CR boost yet?

Thanks in advance for your input!

[Flashkannon]

I'm not sure how well this applies for you, as I am in a rather unique campaign, but I have found that the Giant Scorpion's damage output is rather nice- just fit some way to override its attack roll bonus and put on some bonus static modifiers and you're golden.

It's honestly been a while since I bothered casting anything in combat except Wall of Thorns.

[MaxWilson]

After playing nearly every other class 5E has to offer, I finally decided to make a Druid for the latest campaign I've joined.

My character, a Half Orc Moon Druid, currently level 3, is doing fine so far. I've done plenty of research into the various Wild Shape options available at each level.

What I'm more interested in is how experienced Moon Druid players evolve their tactics over time as they level up. How and when are you spending your Wild Shapes as opposed to relying on spells for support and control? Which concentration spells do you tend to cast before entering Wild Shape and how does that evolve over time? Are there gap levels where your current CR limit on Wild Shape make it ineffective but you haven't reached the next CR boost yet?

Thanks in advance for your input!

Here's some advice: Moon Druids have great spells and great wildshaping, and in order to feel comfortable doing both at the same time, you should strongly consider getting both Warcaster and Resilient (Con) ASAP. It's great to be able to thrown down a Spike Growth or Conjure Animals and yet still feel completely comfortable tanking hits, instead of being afraid to of losing concentration on a hit.

Also try to get Mage Armor from a wizard if you can--it boosts the AC of many forms by a full +3, e.g. Giant Constrictor Snake goes from AC 12 to AC 15.

Boosting Wisdom is okay, especially if you're going to throw down spells like Entangle and Charm Person, but it's also possible to stick to spells like Spike Growth and Conjure Animals which don't need Wisdom at all, so overall I'd say that Wisdom is a P2 (Priority 2) compared to getting good concentration saves ASAP.

You don't necessarily want to pick the highest-CR forms. Sometimes a CR 2 Giant Constrictor Snake or even a CR 1/4 Giant Owl is more valuable to the party than a CR 3 Giant Scorpion. It depends on what you're going to be doing with your concentration (Call Lightning?) and what the rest of the party is going to be doing while you're wildshaped.

Pick up a decent ranged cantrip like Frostbite so that you don't feel pressured to enter wildshape in every single combat. 60' range on Frostbite isn't much, but it's better than Produce Flame or Thorn Whip (both 30'). Don't be afraid to use a crossbow at longer ranges, especially in Tier 1-2 where your cantrips are pretty weak anyway. You can even use a longbow, though you won't have proficiency with it.

There are some excellent Internet guides to various types of druids, and you should browse them both for tips on wildshape forms/summoning forms, and for tips on good spells. E.g. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?588987-Circle-of-the-Shepherd-Druid-Guide-to-Fuzzy-Fury Don't pay very much attention to the colors things are, but pay attention to the reasons given, and make up your own mind about how good those things are.

Fire Elemental Form at level 10 looks pretty weak until you think hard about the ability to e.g. Dash or Disengage through a bunch of creatures to set them all on fire for 2d10 (11) damage each, no save (1d10 immediately and 1d10 at the start of the creature's next turn, before it even gets to act). 11 points of ~guaranteed damage to a bunch of creatures is more damage than an Earth Elemental's ~28 HP of damage at +8 to hit.

Earth and Air Elementals have advantages of their own, of course, such as the ability to kite through rock/stone.

Don't overlook awesome druid spells like Pass Without Trace, especially in dungeon-crawley settings where sneaking is possible and +10 stealth could win you a surprise round. (I.e. a round during which most or all enemies are surprised and unable to act.)

That's all the advice I have for you for now.

Edit to add some level-specific guidance:

Level 2: Brown Bear or Dire Wolf tanking comes online. At this point you're the biggest meatshield and damage-dealer in the party, despite your low AC. (Mage Armor can help a bit.)

Level 3: Spike Growth comes online, so now you have a low-budget Fireball equivalent for dealing with hordes. Against single big monsters, Brown Bear/etc. are still your best bet. (Giant Hyena is good if you want to tank instead of dealing damage.) Also Pass Without Trace comes online so your party can be sneaky.

Level 4: Giant Octopus form comes online, if you've ever seen one. Lots of control, built-in Sentinel equivalent, ability to grant advantage to other PCs. Needs Mage Armor and Longstrider (or Mobile feat) to be truly usable in offensive melee, but at least you can Dash over to a bad guy and then bonus-action wildshape into one.

Level 5: Conjure Animals comes online for swarms of meatshields. You can also do stuff like cast Call Lightning and then Wildshape into a warhorse or Dire Wolf, and then stay out of range while shooting lightning bolts. In regular human form you can also toss Earth Eruption as a different form of low-budget Fireball if you like, though that's more likely to be useful if you're a Mobile Moon Druid instead of a Warcaster/Resilient (Con) Moon Druid. Still sometimes it's nice to have a non-concentration AoE.

Level 6: Wildshape improves, and Giant Constrictor Snake is the new Giant Octopus with more HP and damage and better mobility.

Level 7: Polymorph for more and different tanking in e.g. Giant Ape form. Also Conjure Woodland Creatures for various kinds of less-beasty goodness, e.g. sprites for sleep arrows if you can get them.

Level 8: Now you can fly in wildshape, so Giant Eagle and Giant Owl and various kinds of flying dinosaurs become possibilities. If you haven't seen any in real life, use Polymorph to create one from yourself or a buddy, and then study it for future wildshaping. You can also now Polymorph into a T-Rex although Giant Ape is usually better.

Level 9: Wrath of Nature comes online, Conjure Animals V comes online, etc. Also CR 3 Giant Scorpion form if you want a heavy damage-dealer, but in most ways Giant Constrictor is likely to be better for the party as a whole, especially if you've got Mage Armor on.

Level 10: Elemental Wildshapes.

At every level you're improving your wildshapes, your spells, or both, so just scan up the list off options you can take until you find a good one and then use that.

[Fable Wright]

This is something that I have been researching recently.

At level 2-4, you are a god of CR 1 forms surrounded by PCs with only one attack per turn.

At levels 5-9, Conjure Animals will win most combats through sheer weight of numbers (or raw damage, if your DM lets you choose which animal forms to pick, such as 8 wolves, velociraptors, or flying snakes). Against resistant foes, Moonbeam + a grappling form will let you easily drag enemies into and out of a Moonbeam for 11 damage/spell level (save for half), which can be pretty intense out of a level 3 slot. You can also wreck house with Plant Growth, or at higher levels a ritual cast Water Walk and a Transmute Rock, to have a party immune to a field of absolutely horrendous terrain. (In addition to its standard use as Disintegrate Dungeon Wall. Or floor. Or castle wall. It's like Disintegrate in terms of out of combat power. Between it and Mold Earth, you're good for anything but an all-metal dungeon or wood.)

At level 10-11, you are an elemental with an elemental friend and can punch stuff together. Which is cool. Unfortunately, foes with damage resistance or immunity will become more common around now, so your summoned elemental may have some issues here or in the near future, and you may rely more on Moonbeam tactics. Which are still solid; don't sneeze at 55 damage from sticking someone into the cleansing light of the moon. Wall of Stone and Bones of the Earth are really nice for confined spaces, but you may well be extraordinarily frustrated about fliers. I recommend the Tidal Wave spell and Control Wind. Or Athletics in Air Elemental Form to knock foes prone for potentially massive damage.

At level 13, the Bheur Hag gives you some decent summon benefits with a veritable battery of offensive spells, but that makes you really weak against ice resistant foes. At least Wall of Ice can force some wasted attacks, and forcing a save vs temporary madness is nice? Oh, and forcing extremely windy conditions in open areas to shut down fliers is lovely, and really breathes new life into Plant Growth, Transmute Rock, and Bones of the Earth. Moonbeam still a good backup plan.

At level 15, Antipathy/Sympathy makes you a god of combat control. If you know what you're likely to fight, you can just completely vaporize encounters by sticking 10 day Fear auras or attraction auras on people and just annihilate enemy cohesion before they start. Animal Shapes is an extremely powerful problem solving tool. See a town that needs to get built? Animal Shape people into Dire Beavers. Natural disaster inbound? Evac people by turning them into birds. It is extremely convenient. On the other hand, Wild Shape forms seem pretty grim here.

At level 17, Shapechange. You are now a god. For maximum cheese, turn into any of the Princes of the Apocalypse to make as many eternally-loyal-max-HP elementals as you can fit; then turn into an Adult Gold Dragon; who turns into an Archmage (and the Adult Gold Dragon stat block does not have the usual restriction about not keeping the spells of your assumed form); giving you access to Time Stop and a bunch of other goodies on top of the Dragon's Legendary Resistances.

Yeah. It gets silly.

Then at 18 you get Beast Spells, and at 20 you are a nigh-unkillable god.

[Emongnome777]

Something simple to do around level 3-5 is to pre-cast barkskin then take a low AC, high damage form like a brown bear. Loses steam quick, but a moon druid in my game enjoys it. Well, he would if he wasn’t unlucky with his concentration checks.

[RogueJK]

Are there gap levels where your current CR limit on Wild Shape make it ineffective but you haven't reached the next CR boost yet?

Based on my play experience as a Moon Druid, I'd say there's a somewhat noticeable lag around Level 5, just before you get CR2 forms and Primal Strike so your animal attacks count as magic weapons.

And another one around Levels 8ish, just before you get Elemental Wild Shape.

It's not ineffective at these points, and Moon Druids are still capable characters, but their Wild Shape does feel noticeably less powerful there than at other levels. Especially compared to the high water marks of being a combat juggernaut Bear at Level 2 or an almighty Elemental at Level 10.



a brown bear. Loses steam quick

Accurate! :smallbiggrin:

People love to rave about the bear form, until they actually try to play as one after Level 3 or 4. It's amazing at Level 2, and poor at Level 5. Mostly due to that 11 AC...

[MaxWilson]

At level 10-11, you are an elemental with an elemental friend and can punch stuff together. Which is cool. Unfortunately, foes with damage resistance or immunity will become more common around now, so your summoned elemental may have some issues here or in the near future, and you may rely more on Moonbeam tactics. Which are still solid; don't sneeze at 55 damage from sticking someone into the cleansing light of the moon. Wall of Stone and Bones of the Earth are really nice for confined spaces, but you may well be extraordinarily frustrated about fliers. I recommend the Tidal Wave spell and Control Wind. Or Athletics in Air Elemental Form to knock foes prone for potentially massive damage.

I agree with all of this, but OP shouldn't overlook Fire Elementals because they don't care about weapon resistance, only fire resistance/immunity. Against things like Werewolves, Fire Elementals are the best kind of elemental summons.


At level 13, the Bheur Hag gives you some decent summon benefits with a veritable battery of offensive spells, but that makes you really weak against ice resistant foes. At least Wall of Ice can force some wasted attacks, and forcing a save vs temporary madness is nice? Oh, and forcing extremely windy conditions in open areas to shut down fliers is lovely, and really breathes new life into Plant Growth, Transmute Rock, and Bones of the Earth. Moonbeam still a good backup plan.

Korred is arguably even better than the Bheur hag: awesome at-will ranged attack, control, and the ability to summon an elemental, which could be a Galeb Duhr, which can animate its own additional mini-"elementals".


People love to rave about the bear form, until they actually try to play as one after Level 3 or 4. It's amazing at Level 2, and poor at Level 5.

By level 5 you want to be a Giant Octopus, ideally with AC 15 thanks to Mage Armor from a friendly wizard. Granting advantage to your allies' attacks by restraining enemies will make your allies happy.


Based on my play experience as a Moon Druid, I'd say there's a somewhat noticeable lag around Level 5, just before you get CR2 forms and Primal Strike so your animal attacks count as magic weapons.

And especially one around Levels 7-9ish, just before you get Elemental Wild Shape.

It's not totally ineffective at these points, and Moon Druids are still capable characters, but they do feel noticeably less powerful there than at other levels. Especially compared to the high water mark of being a combat juggernaut Bear at Level 2.

Level 5 is when you get Conjure Animals and AoEs, and you're still getting into your Giant Octopus form--you may feel like you're lagging at DPR, but you really just got a big boost.

At level 6 you get even better control (Giant Constrictor Snake), then level 7 is Polymorph (Giant Ape), then level 9 is even bigger Conjure Animals. There's no point in that range where you're behind the curve, and overall I think you feel more powerful in that range than you did at level 2 when all you had was HP and double damage, because at level 2 you're still vulnerable to getting e.g. paralyzed by a ghoul, but by level 9 with conjured animals that's no longer as much of an issue.

[RogueJK]

Level 5 is when you get Conjure Animals and AoEs... you may feel like you're lagging at DPR, but you really just got a big boost.

then level 7 is Polymorph (Giant Ape), then level 9 is even bigger Conjure Animals.

Oh, I agree. But my statement was in response to the OP's questions about when Wild Shape specifically lags. As I said, Moon Druids are still capable characters at those levels, just less so with regard to Wild Shape specifically.

[MaxWilson]

Oh, I agree. But my statement was in response to the OP's questions about when Wild Shape specifically lags. As I said, Moon Druids are still capable characters at those levels, just less so with regard to Wild Shape specifically.

Ah, I see now. Thanks for clarifying.

[Fable Wright]

Korred is arguably even better than the Bheur hag: awesome at-will ranged attack, control, and the ability to summon an elemental, which could be a Galeb Duhr, which can animate its own additional mini-"elementals".

For the Shepherd Druid, it's a really tough call. For the Moon Druid, the Hag hedges it out just because of the duration, Control Weather to prevent circle-strafing by fliers (especially dragons with their breath weapons) and (mounted) enemy archers. Plus the fact that so many enemies have resistance to non-magical weapon damage.

Though that might just be my weird experience, as the primary enemies of the two current campaigns I am in are a legion of Harpy Warlocks with Animate Dead in the first; and in the other, an army of mongol elves primarily consisting of horse-archers allied with a small flight of dragons. Including an ancient dragon.

I highly value anything that can keep things out of the damn sky and in melee range. Very preferably across a 10-mile front if possible.

Also, while it won't come up much, you could run into the risky circumstance where your Korred loses control of the Galeb Duhr and then you lose control over the Korred, causing a chaotic fustercluck of four summons that don't respect you, as opposed to one glass cannon-ish hag.

[Merudo]

For the Shepherd Druid, it's a really tough call. For the Moon Druid, the Hag hedges it out just because of the duration, Control Weather to prevent circle-strafing by fliers (especially dragons with their breath weapons) and (mounted) enemy archers.

Control Weather is much too slow to be effective (one degree change takes 1d4 x 10 minutes, or 25 minutes on average). Conjure Fey only lasts one hour.

Unless your campaign takes place during the Monsoon, you are unlikely to be able to change the weather to 'storm' before the spell expires.

Beside, I don't think there are official rules on how weather impacts flight, beside it becoming difficult terrain and reducing movement by half.

Honestly, you might be better off with Sleet Storm (knocking flying creatures prone makes them crash).

[Fable Wright]

Control Weather is much too slow to be effective (one degree change takes 1d4 x 10, or 25 minutes on average). Conjure Fey only lasts one hour.

You can tell that I primarily used it in conjunction with Planar Binding, then. :smalltongue:

(Had a coven of 3 Bheur Hags for the Counterspell action and 24 hour weather control.)



Losing control of the Korred merely makes it disappear, so at most you'll face 3 summons that don't respect you.



If your Concentration is broken, the fey creature doesn't disappear. Instead, you lose control of the fey creature, it becomes Hostile toward you and your companions, and it might Attack. An uncontrolled fey creature can't be dismissed by you, and it disappears 1 hour after you summoned it. The DM has the fey creature's Statistics.

Seems open and shut to me. :smallconfused:

[MaxWilson]

Losing control of the Korred merely makes it disappear, so at most you'll face 3 summons that don't respect you.

I agree about Control Weather (not useful for preventing flight except maybe if you Planar Bind the Hag and make her spend all day on it) but Conjure Fey is explicit about what happens when you lose concentration:

If your concentration is broken, the fey creature doesn't disappear. Instead, you lose control of the fey creature, it becomes hostile toward you and your companions, and it might attack. An uncontrolled fey creature can't be dismissed by you, and it disappears 1 hour after you summoned it.

So you could potentially get attacked by a hostile Korred--but I'd be even more worried about getting paralyzed or Cone of Colded + eaten by a hostile Bheur Hag.


You can tell that I primarily used it in conjunction with Planar Binding, then. :smalltongue:

(Had a coven of 3 Bheur Hags for the Counterspell action and 24 hour weather control.)

Incidentally, a hag coven with at least one Annis Hag is pure nasty for PCs to fight. Upcast Hold Person V spells, plenty of reactions for Counter-Counterspell, and monstrously strong attacks to use against paralyzed PCs. The best way to fight a hag coven is to somehow break it up by moving the hags out of coven range of each other (even Repelling Blast can do the job, especially if the hags were already spread out about 30' away from each other to begin with), but as long as they are in coven formation they are absolutely beastly to fight.

[Merudo]

You are both right, the Fey becomes hostile. My bad, I forgot that detail and then checked a website with incorrect information.