Transportation via True Resurrection

[Nagog]

So I've been considering this as a plot point for a while: Could, theoretically, one kill themselves, then have allies in another location cast True Resurrection to transport the target to their location?

Now this may be considered a really costly and ineffective way to transport a person, however, this is a plot point for summoning Great Old Ones to the Material Plane. They have never been here, we have never been there, ergo no Teleporting . However, True Resurrection only requires a name, which if communication is possible, a name would work. Also, considering one of the prime tenets of the Far Realm is that it cannot be comprehended by mortal minds, perhaps the same is true the other way. They can't simply teleport here because our descriptions mean nothing to them.

Would this work? What would be good ways to implement or prevent it?

[LibraryOgre]

This is pretty much how the Star Fleet Transporter works, right?

[Nagog]

This is pretty much how the Star Fleet Transporter works, right?

I'm unfamiliar with the concept. I would guess it's from Star Trek or Stargate?

[MaxWilson]

So I've been considering this as a plot point for a while: Could, theoretically, one kill themselves, then have allies in another location cast True Resurrection to transport the target to their location?

Now this may be considered a really costly and ineffective way to transport a person, however, this is a plot point for summoning Great Old Ones to the Material Plane. They have never been here, we have never been there, ergo no Teleporting . However, True Resurrection only requires a name, which if communication is possible, a name would work. Also, considering one of the prime tenets of the Far Realm is that it cannot be comprehended by mortal minds, perhaps the same is true the other way. They can't simply teleport here because our descriptions mean nothing to them.

Would this work? What would be good ways to implement or prevent it?

I think this would work, however there are obvious coordination problems, as well as the obvious question of "why not just use a Gate spell?" Am I correct in assuming that your Great Old Ones are simply too big to fit through a 20'-wide Gate?

[Nagog]

I think this would work, however there are obvious coordination problems, as well as the obvious question of "why not just use a Gate spell?" Am I correct in assuming that your Great Old Ones are simply too big to fit through a 20'-wide Gate?

Presumably, or magic doesn't work the same there as it does here (considering the Psionic lean in GOOlocks for example), and the typical depiction of the GOO Poster Boy Cthulu being absolutely massive.

[XmonkTad]

I very much like the concept, but you're probably better off just saying that there's a different 9th level spell that allows great old ones to enter the material plane.

This may just be a 3.5 thing (I'm not sure if it got brought over) but outsiders (the collective name for fiends, Angels and other extraplanar natives) were considered to be unressurectable because their soul and body are the same. If that is still the case then you cant resurrect a GOO to begin with.

[Mr Adventurer]

I very much like the concept, but you're probably better off just saying that there's a different 9th level spell that allows great old ones to enter the material plane.

This may just be a 3.5 thing (I'm not sure if it got brought over) but outsiders (the collective name for fiends, Angels and other extraplanar natives) were considered to be unressurectable because their soul and body are the same. If that is still the case then you cant resurrect a GOO to begin with.

In 3.5 True Resurrection could still do it, though. 9th level magic innit.

[Galithar]

In 3.5 True Resurrection could still do it, though. 9th level magic innit.

Yeah True Resurrection is kinda like Wish in that way. It doesn't care if it should be possible, it just makes it possible! Lol

I personally think that's an awesome plot device. Especially since stopping it means having actually KILLED a GOO. I mean technically someone else killed it and you just stopped the resurrection, but it still means it's dead. D E A D dead. And that's a pretty cool thing for an adventurer to be able to claim. At least until someone else back home resurrects it.

I would make it a modified True Resurrection though. Make it require some special components and/or multiple casters performing a ritual. Otherwise any Joe with 9th level spells (like they're everywhere to begin with haha) could do it at any point in the next 200 years. I just think it would make it seem cooler if it had special requirements.

[Mork]

I would make it a modified True Resurrection though. Make it require some special components and/or multiple casters performing a ritual. Otherwise any Joe with 9th level spells (like they're everywhere to begin with haha) could do it at any point in the next 200 years. I just think it would make it seem cooler if it had special requirements.

I agree with this. Maybe make the name of GOO not as easy to come across as it seems. Maybe you immediately go insane(feeblemind?) when you say the name out loud or something? (It's name being to much for a simple mind to comprehend). So only already nutty fanatics will try summoning it?
Or maybe they need an artifact from the beyond to set up a sort of link, as I would say the beyond is outside the planerverse.



(Btw: the star trek teleporter deconstruct someone at 1 location and then reassemble them at another location. Which brings up a lot of philosophical debate if you are killing someone when teleporting like this. If it is still the same person. And if there are such things as souls what happens to them)

[Sigreid]

I'd say yes with the caveat that if you do this regularly it may well piss off the deities.

[Chronos]

Why would the name of a Great Old One even be a pronounceable set of sounds? I'd expect that it'd be something more like a scent, or an emotion, or an unnatural combination of colors. Or maybe the feeling felt by the smell of an orangeish shade of blue.

[Sigreid]

Why would the name of a Great Old One even be a pronounceable set of sounds? I'd expect that it'd be something more like a scent, or an emotion, or an unnatural combination of colors. Or maybe the feeling felt by the smell of an orangeish shade of blue.

Their real name, sure. If they even have one. But their name among mortals would be something their wack job followers/toys can pronounce.

[Mr Adventurer]

I actually wouldn't allow this - just because the Great Old Ones should be Bigger and More Eldritch and Other than any old person such as you might resurrect. It diminishes them.

[Krobar]

This brings up a 2 part question. I'm away from all my books right now so bear with me.

If they're d-e-a-d dead, how can they be warlock patrons? If they're not dead, how can they be resurrected?

[JackPhoenix]

This brings up a 2 part question. I'm away from all my books right now so bear with me.

If they're d-e-a-d dead, how can they be warlock patrons? If they're not dead, how can they be resurrected?

Alhazred said (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9o8OWVWOE0) "That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die."

[Devils_Advocate]

If they're d-e-a-d dead, how can they be warlock patrons?
Let's break that down into two questions.

1. What are the requirements for being a warlock's patron?
2. How might being dead interfere with meeting one or more of those requirements?


If they're not dead, how can they be resurrected?
Perhaps they're dead, but not "d-e-a-d dead", as you put it? What does that mean, by the way?

[Krobar]

Let's break that down into two questions.

1. What are the requirements for being a warlock's patron?
2. How might being dead interfere with meeting one or more of those requirements?


Perhaps they're dead, but not "d-e-a-d dead", as you put it? What does that mean, by the way?

:rolleyes:

What do you think dead means?

I don't care what you do in your game. In mine dead beings aren't granting powers to warlocks, and living beings aren't getting resurrected.

So this plan, as clever as it is, wouldn't fly.

[Addaran]

:rolleyes:

What do you think dead means?

I don't care what you do in your game. In mine dead beings aren't granting powers to warlocks, and living beings aren't getting resurrected.

So this plan, as clever as it is, wouldn't fly.

Nothing says a patron must be alive. The exchange could have happened before he died. Or being so alien and powerful, even in death it's essence is still there. People using the essence of death gods is a trope in fantasy.

Or to use the loophole, even in your game, GOO is alive and commission warlock to find someone with true resurrection (or a scroll). Then the GOO suicide and get raised by the wizard of the party or warlock reading the scroll.

[ProsecutorGodot]

People using the essence of death gods is a trope in fantasy.

And that's to say nothing about the even more prevalent subseries of that trope, being possessed by the dead god that you're trying to resurrect. In many fantasy worlds, being dead as a god is more of an inconvenience than an end to your influence.

That's also ignoring the trope that many warlocks fall into as well, "good guy makes deal with bad guy to kill bad guy".


If they're d-e-a-d dead, how can they be warlock patrons? If they're not dead, how can they be resurrected?
Warlock Patrons and the powers they give are very often considered a one way street. The pact you make grants you an immutable power to tap into that knowledge they give you, the general consensus is that this can't be taken away.

It's different from the Cleric/God relationship in this way, in the event that a God is killed and has no way to spread their influence over the material, their clerics would also become powerless.

[Devils_Advocate]

:rolleyes:
I didn't intend to offend you by treating your questions as sincere. They just stuck me as interesting whether you intended them that way or not.


What do you think dead means?
What do you think "means" means?

Words, and for that matter concepts, are in general vague (http://bactra.org/Russell/vagueness/). Complete lack of ambiguity is, at most, the exception, not the norm. Typically, a concept breaks down into more specific sub-concepts when subjected to sufficiently rigorous examination. To the extent that the overlap of those sub-concepts covers all normal cases, it normally isn't necessary to distinguish between them, which is why they are conflated as they are.

Given all of this, I expect for some things to be dead in some but not all senses of "dead". The undead seem like the most obvious example.


I don't care what you do in your game. In mine dead beings aren't granting powers to warlocks, and living beings aren't getting resurrected.

So this plan, as clever as it is, wouldn't fly.
I don't think that Warlock powers even allow for True Resurrection anyway. And with proper coordination, the patron wouldn't have to be dead for long. The plan would go like this:

1. Warlocks find means to resurrect patron. This could be a spellcaster capable of casting True Resurrection, but it also could be some sort or elaborate ritual. (Even if the spell True Resurrection wouldn't work on the patron, there could be different means of accomplishing the desired result!)

2. Patron is killed. This in itself could be difficult to achieve, even if the patron is willing, which isn't necessarily the case. (Sure, it's a flagrant understatement to say that dragging an incomprehensible eldritch entity involuntarily to your location is foolhardy, but the sorts of cultist who attempt this sort of thing aren't known for their sanity.)

3. Patron is resurrected, causing it to take form whereever the resurrection takes place. This was an excellent idea, and will only lead to desirable results!

If the Warlocks temporarily lose their Warlock magic in between the completion of Step 2 and the completion of Step 3, then this becomes a window of vulnerability ideal for sending in elite strike teams of heroes to disrupt the resurrection, provided that at least one party capable of doing so is aware of their plans. Can they be stopped in time?!

If not, there might be a bit of unpleasantness to deal with.

[MaxWilson]

I would make it a modified True Resurrection though. Make it require some special components and/or multiple casters performing a ritual. Otherwise any Joe with 9th level spells (like they're everywhere to begin with haha) could do it at any point in the next 200 years. I just think it would make it seem cooler if it had special requirements.

Also, if you're moving close to lightspeed when you cast the spell, 200 years in your reference frame could be arbitrarily long from the perspective of people in a "stationary" reference frame on Eberron or Toril. By combining magic and 20th century physics (how about a Decanter of Endless Water for quasi-reactionless propulsion?) you could resurrect beings billions or trillions of years old.