Is Dwarven Fortitude Good?

[Setharious]

'Whenever you take the Dodge Action in combat, you can spend one Hit Die to heal yourself. Roll the die, add your Constitution modifier, and regain a number of hit points equal to the total (minimum of 1). '

How good is this feat? I was looking at it, and it seems like fun, but I have been brainstorming on how to break it. Durable would certainly help, though I am not sure how that interacts either. 'When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum number of hit points you regain from the roll equals twice your Constitution modifier (minimum of 2).' Would this mean your minimum in the case of having 20 Con would be 10+Con mod, or just a flat 10?

Anyway, how would you try to get the best use of Dwarven Fortitude? I have thought of Monk getting this at 4, and Durable at 8, aiming to boost Con to 20 as quick as possible. However, Monk doesn't feel like it needs a huge amount of Con, and wants to be more of a glass cannon with it's Dex, but you would get to dodge as a bonus action. I haven't found other ways to dodge as a bonus action, and no good way to attack with a bonus action to allow the use of dodge as an action. Any level, items, or otherwise would be cool to hear about.

[RogueJK]

As you've discovered, it's potentially useful on someone who can Dodge as a Bonus Action like a Monk, but not so much on other builds.

While most Monks tend to be DEX-heavy mobile strikers, Long Death Monks in particular are "tanky" Monks who would benefit from extra CON and this feat.

Picture a Hill Dwarf Long Death Monk with Dwarven Fortitide... A little less lithe, but a lot tougher/hardier, than your typical Monk. "I am a rock. Unyielding and unbending. Be the rock."

[Quietus]

I've seen it used well on a life cleric, who made liberal use of life transference for spot healing, spirit guardians for aoe, and dodge actions to give mobs a bad time.

[RogueJK]

Yeah, a front line tank Cleric with Spirit Guardians passive damage + Spiritual Weapon Bonus Action attack + Dodge action with extra self-Heal is a pretty good combo.

Thinking about it a bit more, I could also see it being used on occasion by something like a Sorcerer or Sorcadin, spending their action to Dodge + Heal and then casting a Quickened spell as a Bonus Action. Handy, but probably not worth an entire feat.

[MaxWilson]

'Whenever you take the Dodge Action in combat, you can spend one Hit Die to heal yourself. Roll the die, add your Constitution modifier, and regain a number of hit points equal to the total (minimum of 1). '

How good is this feat? I was looking at it, and it seems like fun, but I have been brainstorming on how to break it. Durable would certainly help, though I am not sure how that interacts either. 'When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum number of hit points you regain from the roll equals twice your Constitution modifier (minimum of 2).' Would this mean your minimum in the case of having 20 Con would be 10+Con mod, or just a flat 10?

Anyway, how would you try to get the best use of Dwarven Fortitude? I have thought of Monk getting this at 4, and Durable at 8, aiming to boost Con to 20 as quick as possible. However, Monk doesn't feel like it needs a huge amount of Con, and wants to be more of a glass cannon with it's Dex, but you would get to dodge as a bonus action. I haven't found other ways to dodge as a bonus action, and no good way to attack with a bonus action to allow the use of dodge as an action. Any level, items, or otherwise would be cool to hear about.

You should check out the Artificer in Rising From the Last War, specifically the Artillerist. Dwarven Artillerists seem fully thematic, and Dodge + bonus action Flamethrower (2d8 in a 15' cone, Dex save for half) is already a pretty good action for them. I don't know that adding Hit Die healing to that package makes it much better, especially if it costs a feat, but if there's any build where Dwarven Fortitude is going to be not-useless it's probably an Artillerist.

[Nagog]

As you've discovered, it's potentially useful on someone who can Dodge as a Bonus Action like a Monk, but not so much on other builds.

While most Monks tend to be DEX-heavy mobile strikers, Long Death Monks in particular are "tanky" Monks who would benefit from extra CON and this feat.

Picture a Hill Dwarf Long Death Monk with Dwarven Fortitide... A little less lithe, but a lot tougher/hardier, than your typical Monk. "I am a rock. Unyielding and unbending. Be the rock."

While this is great, I'd prefer it on a Control Sorc. Considering your max roll on a Sorc's hit dice is 6, giving it a minimum that is more that 150% of that is pretty amazing. On top of that, you'd be buffing your already crucial Constitution Save, so in essence you can throw out a blanket damage spell (if you can get a hold of Spike Growth somehow that's a good option for this that you can stand in) and continually dodge to both maintain concentration and regain more HP than should be possible. You could also spend 2 Sorc Points to cast a Quickened Spell while doing so, unlike a Monk who's Bonus Action is demanded by multiple abilities.

The only downside of this combo is it makes Short Rests lame and ineffective.

[stoutstien]

It is ok. Probably on the better side of ok just because it's a cool idea. Tanky kensei hill dwarf monks are cool.
I've taken it on a cleric who did alot of tanking with SG so turns spent dodging where common.
Would I recommend it over war caster or res con no but it's a fun option.

[loki_ragnarock]

As you've discovered, it's potentially useful on someone who can Dodge as a Bonus Action like a Monk, but not so much on other builds.

While most Monks tend to be DEX-heavy mobile strikers, Long Death Monks in particular are "tanky" Monks who would benefit from extra CON and this feat.

Picture a Hill Dwarf Long Death Monk with Dwarven Fortitide... A little less lithe, but a lot tougher/hardier, than your typical Monk. "I am a rock. Unyielding and unbending. Be the rock."

That might be the niche, but even then it's quite hard to say it'd be mechanically better than just bumping your dex or wis.

I'd almost say it'd be best for a barbarian low on health who knows he's going to be taking a bunch of attacks in the next six second and really wants to survive it by taking an action to not reckless attack for a round and recuperate a little before going back to reckless attacking, who also has maxed out their strength/constitution already. Conveniently, there's a type of dwarf that enhances both of those key stats. It synergizes well with rage, effectively doubling the hit points recovered, and with the much maligned path of the Berserker, allowing for a bonus action attack in a round where they'd otherwise be turtling up.
Alternatively, as a cleric who pops off an infamous 2nd level spell and 3rd level spell combination before wading into melee and letting ithose spells carry the day while trying to avoid reasons to roll a concentration check for the rest of the battle, but then also wants a way to recover from the hits that will inevitably land without burning more spell slots. Since this is a combination that rewards a player for just taking the dodge action virtually every round, it leans into the playstyle. Conveniently, there's a type of dwarf that enhances both of those key stats, as well.
A sorcerer could also benefit from the feat, as they can make their main action into a bonus action and dodge every round they've got sorcery points to burn. And heck, if you're taking a sorcerer into melee, you're probably going to desperately need some way to immediately replenish your meager pool of health. Sadly, there isn't a type of dwarf that's particularly optimal for being a sorcerer, so ASIs will probably primarily go to making up the charisma shortage... but if there's a niche melee sorcerer (like, a Palcerer or Warcerer or even Barcerer), then it might find it's place *somewhere* in the multiple attribute dependency.
A bard might be able to make use of it by relegating themselves to using their bonus action for throwing out their inspiration, or pulling a cleric and taking the spells they'd use to achieve the same effects. They might find a place for it, even if they are going to face the same problem of MADness that a sorcerer would encounter.

A fighter won't need it, because they already have second wind. A paladin doesn't want it, because they have lay on hands. These two already have a combat ready hit point recovery method.
A rogue wants to rely on mobility to avoid situations where they need to rely on the dodge action. More about getting out of dodge than actually dodging.
A druid can just manifest a hit point buffer extra hit points by wild shaping.
A wizard wants to misty step away, or use an arcane ward to simulate hit points anyway.
A warlock doesn't have a great many things to with a bonus action that don't just supplement an action, so they'd likely want to stay away.

A monk would have to balance it against the pull of wisdom and dexterity, already a bit behind from being a dwarf; there's a gimmick there, but it doesn't actually synergize against the high stat requirements that monks are burdened with.

So, if you're a Dwarf Berzerker Barbarian playing the HP tank for the rest of your party, it's pretty neato. If your the Dwarven Spirit Guardians/Spiritual Weapon Cleric, it's pretty neato, too. Nich in a couple places beyond that, and a poor option for many other things.

[Keravath]

It also synergizes well with the periapt of wound closure.

"While you wear this pendant, you stabilize whenever you are dying at the start of your turn. In addition, whenever you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, double the number of hit points it restores."

[djreynolds]

Any spell you can use a bonus action to move

Or even caster who uses animate objects, and now just sits back to command stuff (AFB)?

Definitely a cleric, in your face. With spiritual weapon and spirit guardians up... but monsters stop attacking you after awhile or you have to chase them.

Honestly, dwarven fortitude, really could've just been an actual racial feature

IMO savage attacker would get more use.

If you have an odd constitution score... than take HAM or resilient something "at 4th"... and then even out your constitution and your other ability score at 8th.

Because even as a monk, you're spending a KI point to use dwarven fortitude to dodge with your bonus action

[Expired]

'Whenever you take the Dodge Action in combat, you can spend one Hit Die to heal yourself. Roll the die, add your Constitution modifier, and regain a number of hit points equal to the total (minimum of 1). '

How good is this feat? I was looking at it, and it seems like fun, but I have been brainstorming on how to break it. Durable would certainly help, though I am not sure how that interacts either. 'When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum number of hit points you regain from the roll equals twice your Constitution modifier (minimum of 2).' Would this mean your minimum in the case of having 20 Con would be 10+Con mod, or just a flat 10?

Anyway, how would you try to get the best use of Dwarven Fortitude? I have thought of Monk getting this at 4, and Durable at 8, aiming to boost Con to 20 as quick as possible. However, Monk doesn't feel like it needs a huge amount of Con, and wants to be more of a glass cannon with it's Dex, but you would get to dodge as a bonus action. I haven't found other ways to dodge as a bonus action, and no good way to attack with a bonus action to allow the use of dodge as an action. Any level, items, or otherwise would be cool to hear about.
No, it is not a good feat. There is an opportunity cost involved because you are choosing to take this feat instead of an ASI or other feat that may be more beneficial. Monks have ASI/feat taxes of ASI's to reach 20 Dex and Wis which affect AC and Save DC. With point buy, you'll need 4 ASI's to get 20 in each if you start with 16. That leaves just 1 ASI/feat better used on anything but Dwarven Fortitude/Durable.

[djreynolds]

No, it is not a good feat. There is an opportunity cost involved because you are choosing to take this feat instead of an ASI or other feat that may be more beneficial. Monks have ASI/feat taxes of ASI's to reach 20 Dex and Wis which affect AC and Save DC. With point buy, you'll need 4 ASI's to get 20 in each if you start with 16. That leaves just 1 ASI/feat better used on anything but Dwarven Fortitude/Durable.

Very true... and it still basically costs a KI to use patient defense.

[LudicSavant]

When I crunched the numbers for Dwarven Fortitude Long Death Monks vs just boosting Dex/Wis a while back, I found that the Dwarven Fortitude types were actually taking less attacks to kill in many circumstances, on top of having less mobility, offense, and control.

To understand why this is, consider the following factors:

First, being a Hill Dwarf delays your Dexterity progression, which is absolutely crucial for a Monk both offensively and defensively. Taking Dwarven Fortitude simply makes this worse, and doesn't actually give you any extra healing from hit dice over the course of the adventuring day. So for example, in order to compete with a Dex/Wis race Monk, you'd need Hill Dwarf's benefits to be comparable to +2 AC, +2 initiative, +2 Dex saves, +2 to hit, +2 damage per hit (for a class that has many attacks), more Deflect Missiles reduction, +5 speed, and the benefits of a different race. Even things like your poison resistance won't matter once your Monk gets straight up poison Immunity at level 10.

Second, Long Death features scale better with basically every defensive tool other than max hit points. For example, every point of AC will make every point of Death Mastery ki last longer while you're at 0 hit points. And will extend the value of each temporary hit point you generate. And it'll play very effectively off of your ability to give enemies Disadvantage (basically, Disadvantage scales in a very attractive non-linear fashion with higher AC). By contrast, some extra Max HP isn't really doing any more for you than it does for anyone else (actually, it'll do less, since the dwarf's AC will suck).

Even just doing more damage with higher Dex will help you generate more temporary hit points, and reduce enemy offense (by stunning them more, or killing them sooner). And the extra movement speed will help you position better for Hour of Reaping (especially important since you need to avoid friendly fire when doing it).

Did not test with Kensei.

[RogueJK]

Thanks for the math/insight.

So only potentially useful on a Hill Dwarf Long Death Monk if you're rolling for stats and can plug a higher initial score into DEX and WIS than what would be available through Point Buy or Standard Array.

[stoutstien]

Thanks for the math/insight.

So only potentially useful on a Hill Dwarf Long Death Monk if you're rolling for stats and can plug a higher initial score into DEX and WIS than what would be available through Point Buy or Standard Array.

Kensei and DF does ok but increases Dex is still probably better most of the time. Unlike long death the AC boost does increase the value of the increased HP from being a hill dwarf and the hp regained from the feat.
The higher AC gets more value from patient defense as well.
The sweet spot to take it os probably lv 8 but only in games where fights last a lot longer than usual or generally thr group has low emergency healing ablity.

[djreynolds]

A new UA beastmaster ranger with sentinel.

Dodge as your action, use BA for beast attack, reaction attack for attacking beast.

[Sigreid]

It occurs to me that a dwarf champion fighter using this and their regeneration can recover a significant amount of hit points. Combine that with disadvantage on attacks from the dodge and a round or two pause could get enough hp to go back to unloading without needing to tax the healer's resources.

[ImproperJustice]

I have seen it used by a Dwarven Champion as a means to quickly heal between encounters, when a short rest is not available but you have a few rounds of exploration before the next encounter.

GM rules that you did not have to be in combat / dodge to recover. But that the feat enabled out of combat hit dice recovery at the rate of 1HD per round which kinda makes sense if you think about it.

[Misterwhisper]

Monks can bonus action dodge but don’t work too well with dwarves and can’t really afford the feat.

Cleric works well with maintained effects and bonus actions.

It is a niche ability, that has a rather high cost for what it does, and is already kind of hampered by the fact that you have to spend HD which you may or may not have.

If it just straight gave you X THP it would be more reasonable.

[MaxWilson]

Monks can bonus action dodge but don’t work too well with dwarves and can’t really afford the feat.

It works okay with dwarves if you happen to roll even high stats, e.g. a 16 and a 16.

[LudicSavant]

The issue with Dwarven Fortitude on Clerics (who do indeed like to Dodge with Spirit Guardians and the like running) is that it's competing pretty directly with another Con-boosting half-feat: Resilient (Constitution). I don't see it winning that competition often.

[Willie the Duck]

The issue with Dwarven Fortitude on Clerics (who do indeed like to Dodge with Spirit Guardians and the like running) is that it's competing pretty directly with another Con-boosting half-feat: Resilient (Constitution). I don't see it winning that competition often.

Also, although Spirit Guardians clerics are the kind of build that does a lot of dodge actions, they aren't really the characters I would think need this ability so often that it would be clearly the best use of an ASI. Frankly, it is the monks, melee rogues/rangers, sword/valor bards, maybe hexblades and so forth who wade in and out of melee and may or may not have self-heals who would most benefit.

[LudicSavant]

Durable would certainly help, though I am not sure how that interacts either.

I think that Durable would not help. Everything that's been said about opportunity cost gets worse when you're not only taking Dwarven Fortitude at 4, but also Durable at 8. And as for what Durable actually does? If you're a Monk (d8 HD) with 18 Constitution, it boosts your average healing per hit die by... 0.75. That's it. You spent a feat for that.


equals twice your Constitution modifier (minimum of 2).' Would this mean your minimum in the case of having 20 Con would be 10+Con mod, or just a flat 10? With 20 Constitution, your Constitution modifier is 5. Twice your Constitution modifier is 10.

And... it's not great. Let's say you have a d8 hit die. If you roll a 5, 6, 7, 8 on the die, Durable does nothing (since it's 10 or more). If you roll a 4, it gives you 1 hit point. If you roll a 3, it gives you 2. If you roll a 2, it gives you 3. And if you roll a 1, it gives you 4. So basically (0+0+0+0+1+2+3+4)/8=1.25. With 18 Con, it would be 0.75 ((0+0+0+0+0+1+2+3)/8). With 16 Con, it would be 0.375 ((0+0+0+0+0+0+1+2)/8).

[HiveStriker]

'Whenever you take the Dodge Action in combat, you can spend one Hit Die to heal yourself. Roll the die, add your Constitution modifier, and regain a number of hit points equal to the total (minimum of 1). '

How good is this feat? I was looking at it, and it seems like fun, but I have been brainstorming on how to break it. Durable would certainly help, though I am not sure how that interacts either. 'When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum number of hit points you regain from the roll equals twice your Constitution modifier (minimum of 2).' Would this mean your minimum in the case of having 20 Con would be 10+Con mod, or just a flat 10?

Anyway, how would you try to get the best use of Dwarven Fortitude? I have thought of Monk getting this at 4, and Durable at 8, aiming to boost Con to 20 as quick as possible. However, Monk doesn't feel like it needs a huge amount of Con, and wants to be more of a glass cannon with it's Dex, but you would get to dodge as a bonus action. I haven't found other ways to dodge as a bonus action, and no good way to attack with a bonus action to allow the use of dodge as an action. Any level, items, or otherwise would be cool to hear about.
Like many other feats, it's one that is too situational to be taken on "regular" builds but can be used to strengthen some peculiar builds focused on one aspect, namely here surviving or rather, getting hurt without suffering too much.

On single classes, the main use-cases would be indeed Monk and Clerics, with some Sorcerers or Druids in tow.
Monk, especially Long Death and Drunken, can use this effectively.
First one can bear having a lower AC because he's confident in its Fear effect (which means several enemies have disadvantage anyways) and went CON and WIS... But that's a kinda one-trick pony. Unless you get Shillelagh one way or another, or any item boosting STR or DEX, your attacks are gonna suck. If you don't have other reliable tactics to help, it's a big nerf.
The same one could instead bet on building as a tank, going DEX and CON and coordinating with allies to get finishing blow so that the combination of THP + occasional Dodge allows him to aggro damage without endangering life. You can see the drawback in the line itself: you'll need, here also, some external help.

So it would be worth taking only if you had little spell-based healing in party.
OR if you had someone using Warding Bond on you, because then proportionally the ratio of healing compared to average damage would become much better.

So it's mainly for the main idea of "I can use Dodge and still do something meaningful in my turn": Spirit Guardians or Spiritual Weapons for Cleric, but also many (MANY) conjuration spells of Druid that don't really need action to be effective (moving Healing Spirit or Flaming Sphere, giving orders to Conjured creatures), and Sorcerers with either bonus action spells or Quicken metamagic.
Sometimes you want to heal and it's simply the only, or at least the best, option available.

Making it real good though is easy, but requires multiclassing.
Fighter paired with Sorcerer means you can use Dodge as an action for a very acceptable cost when you still want a "full action" (Action Surge or Quicken spell).

But the brutest is probably a dual-class Barbarian and Monk, for example 16/4 or 13/7 or even 10/10 (depending mainly on which Monk archetype you pick or rather which features of Monk you'd like to use besides Dodge as bonus action).
As a Dwarf, it's easy to fulfill all prerequisites of multiclassing and still get enough DEX for medium armor, and 16 in both STR and CON (or one 16 and one 14 if you don't like negative mental stats).
It's really, REALLY a big ass character you'll get.
Between advantage on STR checks (Grapple/Shove), advantage on attacks (Reckless Attack), "advantage on Defense" (Dodge as bonus action), you have an ample array of tactical options to adjust your threat and resilience levels round after round.
With medium armor and shield, you can get 19 AC without any problem. If you want to go full Martial Arts, you still get a passable 10+2+3 = 15.
And since rage also halves damage, and Barb has a d12 HP, it makes the benefit of Dwarven Fortitude much better than in the previous cases in terms of "how many actual damage is left once I got hit and then used Dodge to heal".

[LudicSavant]

Monk, especially Long Death and Drunken, can use this effectively.
First one can bear having a lower AC because he's confident in its Fear effect (which means several enemies have disadvantage anyways) and went CON and WIS... But that's a kinda one-trick pony.

Disadvantage compounds the benefit of AC dramatically. If you're confident in the fear effect, that's more reason to value AC in your build, not the other way around.

Also, having a higher Dex/Wis/move speed will increase your chance of going first, getting into optimal position, and successfully applying the fear effect.