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Darkantra
2007-10-22, 12:43 AM
I want to create a creature so adept at grappling that it could twist the neck of an adult dragon. The DM has already ruled that I can take Improved Natural Attack for the grapple ability (you can already take Weapon Focus in grapple so it's not that far a stretch). Everyone else in the campaign is already 10th level,

Race
Half-Giant (Expanded Psionics Handbook): Medium Giant
The LA from this is +1.
For the purposes of any situation where opposed rolls are made and size modifiers are added half-giants are considered to be one size higher than they are (meaning that they get a +4 bonus to grappling for being 'large'), this ability stacks with any other effect that increases size category.

Rolled abilities with racial modifiers:
Str 20 Dex 16 Con 18 Int 12 Wis 14 Cha 7

His base class is fighter, the progression is as follows

1st: Takes Improved Unarmed Strike and Clever Wrestling (Complete Warrior). Climb +2, Escape Artist +2, Jump + 2, Tumble +2
2nd: Weapon Focus (grapple). Skills Ranks: Climb +3, Escape Artist +2, Jump +3, Tumble +2
3rd: Weapon Focus (armor spikes); Climb +3, Escape Artist +3, Jump +3, Tumble +3
4th: Weapon Specialization (armor spikes); Ability Increase Str +1; Skills Ranks: Climb +4, Escape Artist +3, Jump +4, Tumble +3
5th: Skills Ranks: Climb +4, Escape Artist +4, Jump +4, Tumble +4
6th: Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (grapple). Skills Ranks: Climb +5, Escape Artist +4, Jump +5, Tumble +4
7th: Climb +5, Escape Artist +5, Jump +5, Tumble +5

After taking 2 levels in reaping mauler (which grants Improved Grapple and an ability that give +1 to grapples at L2) to bring him up to ECL 10 and his strength up to 22, his base attack bonus is +9 and his grapple bonus is +28 without any magic items or spells. He can equal an Iron Golem in grapplage!

Due to his effective large size and Improved Natural Attack (grapple), he is effectivly a Huge creature while grappling, meaning that the only creatures that he can't grapple are Collosol ones.

Aside from Enlarge person (which would increase his grapple bonus by +5 and allow him to grapple collosol creatures) please recommend any other beneficial spells.

Last thought, in the Player's Handbook characters can take Weapon Specialization in grapple. Would that mean that any damage dealt in a grapple is increased by 2, or that the check itself is increased by 2?

Nowhere Girl
2007-10-22, 12:50 AM
Go psychic warrior instead and take Expansion and Grip of Iron, along with whatever else.

You'll be amazing until you run into someone with a Freedom of Movement effect, and then you'll just be helpless because Freedom of Movement is cheesy.

Mavian
2007-10-22, 12:58 AM
You should also try and grab the Scorpions Grasp feat.

Basically gives you the improved grab ability so you can start grapples with your melee attacks.

Darkantra
2007-10-22, 01:15 AM
Go psychic warrior instead and take Expansion and Grip of Iron, along with whatever else.

You'll be amazing until you run into someone with a Freedom of Movement effect, and then you'll just be helpless because Freedom of Movement is cheesy.

True, the powers do more than make up for the loss in BAB.
And arg, arg I say to Freedom of Movement. Anyone know if there's a concrete way around it other than a dispell?


You should also try and grab the Scorpions Grasp feat.

Basically gives you the improved grab ability so you can start grapples with your melee attacks.

Scorpions Grasp would work swimingly with my armor spikes, thanks!

At some point tomorrow I'll redo the build to reflect some ideas.

Nebo_
2007-10-22, 01:21 AM
Reaping mauler sucks. It requires clever wrestling, which requires meduim size. So, when you enlarge yourself for that extra grapple bonus, you lose the benefits of the PrC. Goliath is a better choice than half giant, because of the extra +2 Strength.

Ninja Chocobo
2007-10-22, 01:21 AM
Consider the Justiciar class, from CWar.
They get an ability which allows them to tie up their enemies once pinned. Then, you can pick them up and throw them, especially with a level in Hulking Hurler.

Tyrael
2007-10-22, 01:33 AM
Magic Item Compendium p.107, Gloves of the Titan's Grip, +8 on Grapple checks for 7 rounds.

Magic Item Compendium p.72, Armbands of Might, +2 on STR checks and STR-based skill checks.

Edit: Reaping Mauler, that was it. Go with that, and see if your DM will let you keep Clever Wrestling even when Enlarged.

Jasdoif
2007-10-22, 02:12 AM
Reaping mauler sucks. It requires clever wrestling, which requires meduim size. So, when you enlarge yourself for that extra grapple bonus, you lose the benefits of the PrC.You still have the feat, even if you don't meet the feat's prerequisites at the time. So while you can't take advantage of Clever Wrestling's effect if you get enlarged, you still have the feat and thus still qualify for Reaping Mauler.

Darkantra
2007-10-22, 03:47 AM
I'd have to weigh in on the side of having the feat. When my character is enlarged through the Expansion spell (yes I think that I will go with Psionic Warrior), for grapple purposes he's considered Gargantuan size. Any other time and I'm considered Huge, but am actually medium. I really don't think that when I'm considered to be Gargantuan that I'll need the feat, but at times when my Expansion expels, I'm out of power points, or in a pinch it's still a good feat to have.

Darkantra
2007-10-22, 04:41 AM
Okay, here's the Psionic Warrior Build. Not that much difference to the fighter build but it works. (Thanks for the idea Nowhere Girl, I completely glossed over this class when I started out:smalltongue:)

1st: Takes Improved Unarmed Strike and Weapon Focus (armor spikes); Skills Ranks: Autohypnosis + 2, Concentration +2, Escape Artist +2, Tumble +2
2nd: Weapon Focus (grapple). Skills Ranks: Autohypnosis + 3, Concentration +3, Escape Artist +2, Tumble +2
3rd: Psionic Weapon; Skills Ranks: Autohypnosis + 3, Concentration +3, Escape Artist +3, Tumble +3
4th: Ability Increase Str +1; Skills Ranks: Autohypnosis + 4, Concentration +4, Escape Artist +3, Tumble +3
5th: Improved Natural Attack (grapple); Skills Ranks: Autohypnosis + 4, Concentration +4, Escape Artist +4, Tumble +4
6th: Clever Wrestling (Complete Warrior); Skills Ranks: Autohypnosis + 5, Concentration +5, Escape Artist +4, Tumble +4
7th: Autohypnosis + 5, Concentration +5, Escape Artist +5, Tumble +5

Powers Known:
1st: Expansion, Grip of Iron, Prescience Offense
2nd: Animal Affinity, Body Equilibrium, Strength of My Enemy
3rd: Vampiric Blade

So again, with 2 levels in Reaping Mauler (for now it really does seem to be the best prestige class I can pick up with grappling involved) my BAB is +7, and my grapple check is +27. With Animal Affinity, Expansion and Grip of Iron my bonus boosts to +39. Damn! I'm going to look for a Storm Giant, his ass is mine!

That actually spawns disturbing thoughts about the usage of grappling and pinning...

If I went for a Goliath build I would gain +2 to strength but I'd lose all of the immunities to spells and spell-like abilities that being a Giant would bring. Hmm, it's about an even trade-off. I'll think through my character a bit more and make a decision based off of that.

And as a point of order, my character will be fairly boisterous, always looking to fight and defeat the next strongest enemy. Not quite the motivation that a justicar has, but that was a good suggestion nonetheless.

Last note, the rules regarding spiked armor in a grapple aren't very well done. The PHB says, "You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage on a succesful grapple attack."

It sounds like it could be extra damage applied to the "Damage Your Opponent" section of the grappling rules. Having spikes jutting out all over your armor would make it pretty easy to imaple someone on them, and when you're in that close and trying to hurt someone you would (I'd think) use forearm, knee and elbow strikes, all of which would have spikes attached to them. At the very least you could substitute the unarmed strike damage for the armor spike damage for that action.

I'm going to talk to the DM about that point but if anyone's heard the final word I'd appreciate knowing.

Fixer
2007-10-22, 07:32 AM
Last note, the rules regarding spiked armor in a grapple aren't very well done. The PHB says, "You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage on a succesful grapple attack."

It sounds like it could be extra damage applied to the "Damage Your Opponent" section of the grappling rules. Having spikes jutting out all over your armor would make it pretty easy to imaple someone on them, and when you're in that close and trying to hurt someone you would (I'd think) use forearm, knee and elbow strikes, all of which would have spikes attached to them. At the very least you could substitute the unarmed strike damage for the armor spike damage for that action.

I'm going to talk to the DM about that point but if anyone's heard the final word I'd appreciate knowing.

My ruling, using as much RAW as possible, is that when a character with spiked armor is wrestling, ALL successful grapple checks they make deal the extra damage to whomever the dice were rolled.

So if two guys were wrestling a guy with spiked armor and the guy wearing spiked armor rolled successful grapple checks against both of them when they tried to break free, then those two guys take the spiked armor damage on their actions. On the spiked guy's turn he makes a normal grapple attempt to strike one of the two guys and succeeds, dealing normal spiked gauntlet damage PLUS the spiked armor damage for the successful grapple attempt.

This can result in grappled beings feeling like they are in a blender if they don't have Freedom of Movement against a grapple build.

Shas aia Toriia
2007-10-22, 07:41 AM
I'd see if you could get an anti-magic field around you. That would stop a lot of magical effects, Freedom of Movement as well. Also, a spell I reccomend you have cast.

Balor's Nimbus.

It effectively gives you the Balor's flame body when grappling.

Keld Denar
2007-10-22, 08:19 AM
To combat free action, you could always get the dispelling or greater dispelling weapon upgrades applied to your armor spikes. Combine that with Scorpions Grasp and you would make an armor spikes attack, make a dispel check vs the target, and then improved grab them into your spikey grip. The only problem is that the caster level for a dispelling weapon is fixed (level 5 for dispel, level 11 for greater dispel) and its only 3x per day.

You might want to look into a dip to barbarian for rage and pick up the extra rage feat (3 rages/day is usually enough). That would give you an extra +2 on your grapple. Then you'd also qualify for bear warrior, which would also grant you a size increase and a huge strength bonus. You'd unfortunately lose all benefit from your armor and weapons though. Still, it is a huge str bonus. I think you can use expansion while in bear form too, to become a huge bear (effectively collosal?) Usually, multiple size increases don't stack (such as from polymorph etc) but I'm not overly familiar with how expansion works being psionic and all.

Just some musings.

Mavian
2007-10-22, 10:26 AM
One comment about your lasts build. PsyWars don't qualify for Weapon Focus until level 2.

If your going with a psionic class, and depending on access to books. You have some room for feats, so you could always start out as a monk, for Improved Grapple, then switch to Psy War with Tashalatora.

Person_Man
2007-10-22, 11:34 AM
Consider:

Shifter Monk 3/Psychic Warrior 4/Fist of the Forest 3/Warshaper 1/Psychic Warrior X

Monk 3 + Superior Unarmed Strike feat + Monk's Belt: 2d6 unarmed damage
Fist of the Forest: 2 step increases to 2d10 damage.
Warshaper: 1 size increase to 4d8 damage
Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike): 1 size increase to 6d8 damage
Expansion: 2 size increases to 12d8 damage.

As others have suggested, pick up Scorpion's Grasp. Punch away. Every time you hit your enemy, you get a free Grapple check. If you succeed, you deal unarmed damage (again) and then can finish out your iterative attacks with opposed grapple checks, dealing unarmed damage every time you succeed. If your enemies have Freedom of Movement, you can still just punch them to death.

If you're willing to delay the combo until higher levels, you could drop the Shifter race and use Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis) to gain access to Warshaper instead.

If you have access to Monastic Training and Tashalotora (Eberron), you can drop the Fist of the Forest levels and just go Monk 2/ Psychic Warrior X/ Warshaper 1/ Psychic Warrior Y instead.

Clever Wrestling is a bad idea, because it requires that you be medium or small in order to qualify. If you're using Expansion, you lose access to the feat.

At higher levels, consider Combat Focus, Combat Vigor, and Combat Stability. Once you hit someone in combat, you gain +4 to Will Saves, Fast Healing 4, and +8 to resist Grapple/Trip/etc checks, which will basically prevent anyone from ever breaking a Grapple you make against them.

Keld Denar
2007-10-22, 12:41 PM
At higher levels, consider Combat Focus, Combat Vigor, and Combat Stability. Once you hit someone in combat, you gain +4 to Will Saves, Fast Healing 4, and +8 to resist Grapple/Trip/etc checks, which will basically prevent anyone from ever breaking a Grapple you make against them.

Thats just mean...you sir, win. Its kind of a stretch to say that you are "resisting" a grapple check vs someone trying to escape, but by RAW, I'd say its true because it is an opposed grapple check, and if you aren't the initiator of the check, then technically you are the defender.

PS, I have a bumper sticker on my car that matches your sig, except its for 2004...A suitable write-in candidate if I do say so myself.

Darkantra
2007-10-23, 02:54 AM
Hmm, overall while the monk builds would net me more damage in the long run I have to side with a build that focuses on armor spike damage.

Here's the build for a barbarian/psychic warrior.

Str 20 Dex 16 Con 18 Int 12 Wis 14 Cha 7
or Dex 14 Con 20

Barb 1: Weapon Focus (grapple)
Barb 1/PW 1: Improved Unarmed Strike
Barb 1/PW 2: Improved Grapple, Scorpion's Grasp
Barb 2/PW 2: Ability Increase Str +1
Barb 3/PW 2:
Barb 4/PW 2: Improved Natural Attack (grapple)
Barb 5/PW 2:
Barb 5/PW 3: Ability Increase Str +1
Barb 5/PW 4: Intimidating Rage/Combat Focus/Weapon Focus (armor spikes)

Power Points: 9
Powers Known:
1st: Expansion, Grip of Iron, Force Screen
2nd: Strength of my Enemy

(I'm too tired to sort out skills now, will do later if requested)

Aha! While reading through the PH I came across a mighty, mighty gem!

"Intimidate

Special: You gain a +4 bonus on your Intimidate check for every size category that you are larger then your target."

And since the powerful build racial feature makes my character one size larger whenever a size modifier is used for an opposed check, it counts for Intimidate.

Now, if I took the Intimidating Rage feat and demoralized an opponent while raging and with expansion manifested then I'd gain a +8 size bonus to my intimidate check against medium opponents. If I maxed out Intimidate by level 9 then with his Cha modifier I have a mod of +18. So it'd be an interesting choice to be ripping an enemy mage to pieces, look up and scream to the enemy front-liner, "You're next chump, AHAHAHAHAHA!"

So the counts. At that point my BAB is +8 and my base grapple is +27. With Expansion and Grip of Iron manifested and then making myself rage that jumps up to +37. Pretty decent, given the amount of time I can hold those powers and the rage.

As a question about ability bonuses, expansion makes my character physically larger, while rage drives his physiology past it's normal limits. I know that normally ability bonuses do not stack, but what about in this case, where there's the physical growth of muscles and then limit breaking :smallwink:. I ask since the answer might grant me an extra +1 to my grapple check.


To combat free action, you could always get the dispelling or greater dispelling weapon upgrades applied to your armor spikes. Combine that with Scorpions Grasp and you would make an armor spikes attack, make a dispel check vs the target, and then improved grab them into your spikey grip. The only problem is that the caster level for a dispelling weapon is fixed (level 5 for dispel, level 11 for greater dispel) and its only 3x per day.


I'll see what my starting items can be and try for this, since a canny enemy or recurring enemy could effectively nerf me with that most hated of spells.



At higher levels, consider Combat Focus, Combat Vigor, and Combat Stability. Once you hit someone in combat, you gain +4 to Will Saves, Fast Healing 4, and +8 to resist Grapple/Trip/etc checks, which will basically prevent anyone from ever breaking a Grapple you make against them.

Diabolical sir! Simply diabolical, those three feats would make me unstoppable once I get my hands on something!

As a final character I'm leaning towards a Goliath with the above build. Keep posting ideas if you think of them, perhaps one of us will come up with something that can lock arms with the Tarrasque (+81 grapple stat :smalleek: )

cupkeyk
2007-10-23, 11:01 AM
Can you select grapple for Weapon Focus? Isn't it Weapon Focus(unarmed strike)? Just knitpicking.

Is the bonus Combat Focus, Combat Vigor, and Combat Stability is triggered by the touch attack you need to initiate a grapple?

toddex
2007-10-23, 11:04 AM
Yeah grapplers are fun in low levels but higher theyre useless. If you want to grapple though look at reaping mauler in complete warrior.

cupkeyk
2007-10-23, 11:10 AM
Yeah grapplers are fun in low levels but higher theyre useless. If you want to grapple though look at reaping mauler in complete warrior.

Uhh, depends on how one interprets whether or not you lose your class abilities when you no longer qualify for a feat prerequisite. Technically you still have power attack even when you have been ray of enfeeblemented/escalating enfeeblement/ray of exhaustioned. Yeah, right.

Or a Bear Totem Barbarian(UA)7 Bear Warrior5 Warshaper3 Fighter 2 Something 3

Person_Man
2007-10-23, 11:46 AM
Is the bonus Combat Focus, Combat Vigor, and Combat Stability is triggered by the touch attack you need to initiate a grapple?

Your Combat Focus is triggered "The first time you make a successful attack during an encounter." It lasts for 10 rounds +1 per combat form feat that you have. While in Combat Focus, you gain the benefits of all of your combat form feats. So yes, as soon as you successfully attack an enemy in any fashion, you gain the benefits of the feats.


Moving on, I would say that Intimidating Rage is a waste unless you're using a Fear build with stacking effects.

Weapon Focus is a huge waste.

I'm not sure how Improved Natural Attack (Grapple) would work, since Grapple just deals unarmed damage. Can you explain your house rule to me? Does it just give you a +4 size mod to grapple, or does it effect unarmed damage while grappling? If it effects both, can you also take Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed) and stack the benefits?

I think a Barbarian/Psy War grappler is not nearly as good as a Monk/Psy War grappler, but if you do go with a Barb, then I suggest using the Comp Champion variant to pick up Pounce. You might also want to look at Frozen Dwarf Hulk Smash (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50588).

cupkeyk
2007-10-23, 12:48 PM
Meh, I checked. Combat stability sucks eggs. Its only for resisting not for the offensive applications of grapple.

Darkantra
2007-10-23, 01:56 PM
Meh, I checked. Combat stability sucks eggs. Its only for resisting not for the offensive applications of grapple.

It is good however, in that it can add +4 and later +8 to every roll that my character would make to oppose another's grapple check. So every time my opponent tries to break out of my grapple or my pin it makes it that much harder to escape.

As for Improved Natural Attack (grapple), it's been ruled that since grapple is affected by a size modifier and it's pretty much a natural attack since every creature has a grapple, that the feat would increase his grapple size modifier to be one size higher than he is. That would make his grapple checks naturally large size, and with powerful build it knocks it up to Huge.

I've been over how this could be abused with the DM, and as long as it only affects the grapple check itself then it's okay.

cupkeyk
2007-10-23, 02:04 PM
It is good however, in that it can add +4 and later +8 to every roll that my character would make to oppose another's grapple check. So every time my opponent tries to break out of my grapple or my pin it makes it that much harder to escape.

As for Improved Natural Attack (grapple), it's been ruled that since grapple is affected by a size modifier and it's pretty much a natural attack since every creature has a grapple, that the feat would increase his grapple size modifier to be one size higher than he is. That would make his grapple checks naturally large size, and with powerful build it knocks it up to Huge.

I've been over how this could be abused with the DM, and as long as it only affects the grapple check itself then it's okay.

No, by RAW, combat stability's bonus applies only when somebody is grappling you, when they are trying to escape you get no benefit from it.

Nowhere Girl
2007-10-23, 02:35 PM
I think a Barbarian/Psy War grappler is not nearly as good as a Monk/Psy War grappler

How do you figure that exactly? It's pretty well established that a barbarian can outgrapple the hell out of a monk ...

Mavian
2007-10-23, 02:39 PM
You only take 1 or 2 monk levels, and the rest go into Psywar, which stacks for Unarmed Damage, and other monk abilities, and since a grapple check deals your unarmed damage, you squeeze a lot harder that way.

Nowhere Girl
2007-10-23, 03:03 PM
You only take 1 or 2 monk levels, and the rest go into Psywar, which stacks for Unarmed Damage, and other monk abilities, and since a grapple check deals your unarmed damage, you squeeze a lot harder that way.

How does psychic warrior stack with monk for unarmed damage and other monk abilities? Is it a feat that does that?

Or are you thinking of Fist of Zouken?

If it's actually just monk/psychic warrior, you'll want to take monk to at least 4 then, so as to avoid losing another point of BAB thanks to classing into monk at all. Otherwise, you're down to +14 BAB by level 20, which is ... not so good.

Personally, if I were going to do a 4-level digression, I'd do it as a full BAB class (like barbarian), thereby gain an iterative attack (you can use iterative attacks in grapples, too, remember), and simply take Superior Unarmed Strike if I want more damage. That'll get the base unarmed damage up near the monk anyway -- then throw in rage and the extra iterative attack, and you completely surpass the monk.

cupkeyk
2007-10-23, 03:24 PM
How does psychic warrior stack with monk for unarmed damage and other monk abilities? Is it a feat that does that?

Or are you thinking of Fist of Zouken?

If it's actually just monk/psychic warrior, you'll want to take monk to at least 4 then, so as to avoid losing another point of BAB thanks to classing into monk at all. Otherwise, you're down to +14 BAB by level 20, which is ... not so good.

Personally, if I were going to do a 4-level digression, I'd do it as a full BAB class (like barbarian), thereby gain an iterative attack (you can use iterative attacks in grapples, too, remember), and simply take Superior Unarmed Strike if I want more damage. That'll get the base unarmed damage up near the monk anyway -- then throw in rage and the extra iterative attack, and you completely surpass the monk.

Uhm, no, you can't full attack on a grapple.


Attack Your Opponent: You can make an attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a 4 penalty on such attacks. You cant attack with two weapons while grappling, even if both are light weapons.


Damage Your Opponent: While grappling, you can deal damage to your opponent equivalent to an unarmed strike. Make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack. If you win, you deal nonlethal damage as normal for your unarmed strike (1d3 points for Medium attackers or 1d2 points for Small attackers, plus Strength modifiers). If you want to deal lethal damage, you take a 4 penalty on your grapple check.

Exception: Monks deal more damage on an unarmed strike than other characters, and the damage is lethal. However, they can choose to deal their damage as nonlethal damage when grappling without taking the usual 4 penalty for changing lethal damage to nonlethal damage.

So it's one attack for everybody in the grapple OR you squeeze dealing your unarmed damage ONCE.

Nowhere Girl
2007-10-23, 03:36 PM
Page 156, under If You're Grappling, third sentence:

"If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses."

So actually, yes you can.

Mavian
2007-10-23, 03:45 PM
There is a feat. Tashalatora out of Secrets of Sarlona. Allows you to stack levels in monk with any psionic class, that you have monastic training with.

Person_Man
2007-10-23, 04:17 PM
No, by RAW, combat stability's bonus applies only when somebody is grappling you, when they are trying to escape you get no benefit from it.

Combat Stability says "You gain a +4 bonus on checks or rolls to resist bull rush, disarm, grapple, overrun, and trip attempts made against you." It increases to +8 if you have 3 combat form feats.

Let's say I win a Grapple check but fail to kill my enemy. Now its my enemy's turn in the initiative. If he wants to break free or damage me, he must initiate a Grapple check against me. Thus, I gain the +8 bonus because I am resisting his Grapple check. It also helps out a lot against enemy Trip attempts, which are pretty common.


Uhm, no, you can't full attack on a grapple.

So it's one attack for everybody in the grapple OR you squeeze dealing your unarmed damage ONCE.


You can make a full attack as part of a Grapple. It's specifically addressed in the Rules Compendium excerpt (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20071009a).


If you can make multiple attacks due to a high base attack bonus, you can attempt to start a grapple multiple times by making a full attack. If you succeed in starting the grapple and have remaining attacks, you can use those attacks to perform other maneuvers allowed in a grapple (see Grappling Results).

cupkeyk
2007-10-23, 04:52 PM
I am sorry to make this a discussion on sentence construction. I thought that bull rush, overrun, grapple, disarm and trip were adjectives that modified the noun attempt. Therefore the bonus only applies to the first contested grapple check you make after making the touch attack to initiate a grapple and not any other contested grapple rolls thereafter since these are no longer attempts.

Enochi
2007-10-24, 05:03 PM
I have checked books and I do believe all these stack so here in my EC lvl 10 build.

A Goliath Werebear Psychic Warrior:
L1: Barbarian-Alt Bear Totem - Improved Grab, Improved Natural Attack
L2: Psychic Warrior; Improved Unarmed Strike; Grip of Iron
L3: Psychic Warrior; Improved Grapple, Expansion, Eath's Embrace
L4: Psychic Warrior
L5: Psychic Warrior; Animal Affinity,
L6: Warshaper; Crushing Hug
L7: Warshaper; Morphic body
L8: Slayer

Assuming you started with 18 Str (which is what your build seemed to assume), by this level you can have your Strength up to:
18 +4 racial +16 Werebear +8 size +4 rage +2 level ups + 4 animal affinity + 4Morphic body = 60

Grapple Check (in ideal, fully-buffed conditions):
+6 BAB
+25 Str
+16 size
+6 Grip of Iron
+5 feats (Improved Grapple, Weapon Focus)
= +58

Damage from Grapple Check (3d6+50)+pin(1d12)
The is a min damage of 53 on a Grapple and you get to make 2 a turn.