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View Full Version : Player Help We know of slight of hand can be used to pick pockets



denthor
2020-01-23, 01:42 PM
My questions are:

How do you pick your target?

Where is the target?

My DM has said this in the past. All players pick the wrong place wrong target. Then when they pick the correct target that is the mark the other 60,000 thieves want as well. Suggested never even attempt to do this.

Lord Torath
2020-01-23, 01:59 PM
Sounds like you need to have a frank, out-of-character talk with your DM about when and how he will make certain skills useful.

Or is this just a thread for complaining about things a DM says they allow, but which they really don't?

Pleh
2020-01-23, 02:06 PM
I mean, you could counter next time he has someone attack your character: "Where do you hit my character?"

Tell him he picked the wrong spot and he hit straight into the armor.

It won't override a DM's authority, but it makes the point that these aspects of the game are meant to be abstracted. "I attempt to pick his pocket" shouldn't require any further information. Your character is going to choose the pocket that is most likely to both contain something of value and is in some way accessible.

If a DM were giving me this kind of runaround on something that should be simple and straightforward, next time he asks me where I am pickpocketing, I would ask what options are available? What pockets can I see and how accessible are they? If he's going to bury you in details, make him dig the grave, too.

Quertus
2020-01-23, 03:19 PM
Wait, is the question, "what to take" or "who to take it from"?

If it's the latter, then player skill, Spot, and Sense Motive could all be useful.

If the former, then player skill, Spot, and Sense Motive could all be useful, I suppose, but your best tool is probably a clue-by-four.

denthor
2020-01-23, 09:30 PM
Sounds like you need to have a frank, out-of-character talk with your DM about when and how he will make certain skills useful.

Or is this just a thread for complaining about things a DM says they allow, but which they really don't?



Did you see the questions?

JNAProductions
2020-01-23, 10:50 PM
Did you see the questions?

Yes. I think they did. And I think their post has a good point.

Mystral
2020-01-23, 11:01 PM
My questions are:

How do you pick your target?

Where is the target?

My DM has said this in the past. All players pick the wrong place wrong target. Then when they pick the correct target that is the mark the other 60,000 thieves want as well. Suggested never even attempt to do this.

Slight of hand's use to pickpocket is a skill use often missunderstood by players. Most players see it as a way of getting free money from random NPCs in a city. The problem is that pickpocketing has one out of two outcomes. Either the players get additional money, which then has to be removed from future treasures to keep players on their WBL and which quickly becomes pretty paltry once you get into higher levels, or the players get caught, which can derail an entire adventure. Neither outcome is ideal, to say the least. Additionally, it steals time from other players.

IMHO, pickpocketing should be used as a way to overcome the challenges of an adventure. Get the keys for some place, pilfer a piece of evidence or a potion from an enemy. Stuff like that. You know, the way every other skill is used. You can also use it as a downtime money making skill like Profession, where the character picks low value, low risk targets.

Now, if you're playing in a campaign where pickpocketing is expected behaviour and your DM is only making it difficulty for you for reasons.. that's an entirely different problem that the other posters have addressed.

Kaptin Keen
2020-01-24, 01:49 AM
Well - picking pockets is largely a question of luck. Or, to be precise, getting your hand into someone else's pocket without them noticing is a question of skill - whether that particular pocket has anything valuable in it is a matter of luck. Unless you rolled a decent spot check in advance, which let you discover that the fat merchant is carrying something heavy on his belt, on the left side.

But anyways, luck is wonderfully illustrated by a dice roll. So either the GM could look at the margin by which a character beat the DC - or he could call for a 'luck' roll, and d20 to see how lucky you are. Or he could just decide not to be a **** about it, and let his players use the skills they invest in.

Nightcanon
2020-01-24, 01:31 PM
Did you see the questions?

Is your DM asking you "what's the target?" If so, is the answer he/she seems to be looking for along the lines of "a rich-looking person in the biggest tavern in the posh part of town", or "that fat merchant with the beard over on the other side of the room" or "the larger of the two velvet money bags hanging on the left side of the merchant's belt". How are you trying to use sleight of hand? What about your intended use and the DM's interpretation is a problem? If you are just frisking a merchant for items of value, I would only expect you to identify the person you are trying to pickpocket. I'm not going to 'gotcha' that you aways go for the purse that the merchant keeps his copper is ("the platinum, and the diamonds, are in identical purses but you just 'happened' to pick the copper again"), but nor does he keep his real valuables on his person in a bar. A better use for sleight of hand is for palming keys and other such useful items when you see them left unattended on desks or people's belts.

Jay R
2020-01-26, 12:15 PM
Is your DM asking you "what's the target?" If so, is the answer he/she seems to be looking for along the lines of "a rich-looking person in the biggest tavern in the posh part of town", or "that fat merchant with the beard over on the other side of the room" or "the larger of the two velvet money bags hanging on the left side of the merchant's belt".

I prefer the guy who's trying to flirt with the barmaid, or the half-drunk guy, or the one who's busy pushing people around.

Pick the person least likely to notice.

Or make your target less likely to notice. If you need to pick the pocket of the guard captain, then set up a diversion. Pick his pocket when your friends start a tavern brawl, or some such.

Slipperychicken
2020-01-27, 06:13 PM
Your GM is a prick and either doesn't want you to succeed, or wants you to read his mind somehow to follow his ideas of how pickpocketing works.

I'd ask him if he'll allow an intelligence(sleight of hand) roll or similar to tell you if a mark is good, or just to find a good mark in the first place.

Failing that I'd probably give up thieving and live the "honest" life of stealing from the dead.

Jerrykhor
2020-02-26, 02:06 AM
Terrible DM. He obviously hates the concept of pickpocketing, and he tries to punish any attempt of it.

Its like that kind of DM who does this: That peasant over there? He's actually a god in disguise. You picked the wrong target, pal. That strong enemy over there? Yeah, he's as strong as he looks. You picked the wrong target, pal.

jjordan
2020-02-26, 05:06 PM
Lot of good points have been made. Assuming this is a roleplaying issue, rather than a roll-playing issue, I'd offer the following:

Work as a team. Distractor(s), pickpocket, escape man, look out(s). The lookouts watch for guards or trouble. If they spot any they make a distraction which signals the team to escape. If it's safe to proceed the distractors separate the mark and maneuver them to a favorable location if possible. They distract the mark while the pickpocket works. The pickpocket will then dump the take on the escape man who exits the area quickly.

Use an intelligence roll (add your proficiency, you're a thief) to select targets. That provides the DM with an opportunity to steer marks your way to advance the story. Take some time at this and be upfront about that. "I want to spend a couple of hours getting a feel for this place and the people. I want to know the escape routes. I want to know when things are busy. When they're quiet. Which people are likely to have money. Which people are likely to have bodyguards. I want to see if I can spot other thieves casing the place or operating here." Give them every reason to give you some advantage when you actually do the deed.

If you have to hit a specific mark make the maximum use of die rolls and be general and don't rush. Again, give the DM every opportunity to give you advantage and give them some indication you've put some thought into this.

Mordaedil
2020-02-27, 05:24 AM
We might be coming at this from the wrong end.

Are you having downtime and asking the DM to use the Sleight of Hand skill to rob people? In that case it is entirely fair for the DM to ask you who you chose to pickpocket.

You can say randomly or say you try to find a certain person and make it a bit of roleplay instead of doing it alone.

Earthwalker
2020-03-02, 06:16 AM
My questions are:

How do you pick your target?

Where is the target?

My DM has said this in the past. All players pick the wrong place wrong target. Then when they pick the correct target that is the mark the other 60,000 thieves want as well. Suggested never even attempt to do this.

I do get a strong vibe of silly billy GM from the Ops opening comments. To answer the questions tho…

Using sleight of hand to steal money would be going to a crowded place and stealing money from rich stupid people. (I think there is an abundance of rich stupid people in the world and hopefully the fantasy DnD worlds too)

So go to an expensive inn where rich merchants hang out. Watch for a while. See where the merchants get the money to pay for stuff from then rob them.

I feel if I was playing and after succeeding at a sleight of hand roll if I was asked. Where are you stealing money from? My response was, that’s what the sleight of hand skill does, works out where to steal from. Like a pat down (if we need to get to that level of detail)



Other notes on this….(From a gamist point of view and assuming Sleight of hand skill costs the same to buy as perception skill)

GM - Oh you want to use Sleight of hand, well before you need to find a target so you need to succeed at perception…
(This is seen as ok, it makes sense)

GM.. Oh you want to make perception, well the sun is in your eyes before you roll you will need to succeed at a sleight of hand.
(I suspect the player might call foul)

Spore
2020-03-02, 06:26 AM
My questions are:

How do you pick your target?

Where is the target?

My DM has said this in the past. All players pick the wrong place wrong target. Then when they pick the correct target that is the mark the other 60,000 thieves want as well. Suggested never even attempt to do this.

Good lord, your DM knows nothing about day-to-day crime, does he? First of all, there is a reason the skill is not called pick POCKET anymore.

Want some cash? Distract a paying customer and the clerk by bringing up a distraction, taking the bank note he just deployed. Confuse them a bit then leave.

Want a purse? Just watch the area for unattended stuff. People are damn careless with their items (I am a shop assistant, and I swear half of my job is making sure people take their credit cards, their change, their bags and their shopped items with them).

The classical "picked pocket", basically a guy brushing by you to take your coin purse or wallet, happens so damn rarely. Doubly rare is the guy that actually carries so much that it is worth it to make a pick pocket check (usually a thief using downtime rules is most likely paid by downtime rules where picking targets is the same as any other job.) Maybe that is what your DM is insinuating. However I get what the others are throwing down as well. You wanted to play a pickpocket, not "just a rogue". You want to steal, so your DM should provide you with opportunities to play a bit of a side game.

Ask him to describe the place in more detail. If you then pick a suitable target, and the DM fudges in a few more watchful eyes, ask him why they were not included in your first description of the area.

halfeye
2020-03-02, 10:46 AM
...

The word you were looking for was "Sleight".