Help Selecting feat for Battlemaster

[MadBear]

Originally, I was going to take Martial Adept as my 1st level feat (Vuman), because it'd allow me to have a wider selection of manuevers. However, the DM is going to allow me to switch out manuevers between short rests (using one of the newer UA).

So I no longer feel like that feat is completely worth it. Is there another feat that would be worth picking up?

Side note: My character is essentially Captain America, with the DM creating a special fighting style for my character (Essentially I can twf with a shield and fist using d8's, but only using those).

[nickl_2000]

You are playing Captain America? You absolutely 100% need Shield Master.

That is so core to the concept of Cap that there really isn't another choice needed.

[Man_Over_Game]

You are playing Captain America? You absolutely 100% need Shield Master.

That is so core to the concept of Cap that there really isn't another choice needed.

Well, there are a few concerns to that. As the Shield Master effects require either a Bonus Action or a Reaction, they can compete with some of the Battlemaster maneuvers.


Honestly, increasing your attack stat is a pretty big deal, as it increases not just your damage but also reduces the save chance of your targets.

A great choice for Battlemasters is Crossbow Expert, as most of their maneuvers can be used at range, but Crossbow Expert can still allow a Fighter to be in melee to leverage his high AC and health. The use of action resources from this feat isn't as bad as Shield Master, due to the fact that it still provides a relevant feature if you decide to not use the resource-dependent feature of the feat.

But since you're going for the Captain America vibe, what Nickl said about Shield Master is the best way of doing just that.

[Wildarm]

Originally, I was going to take Martial Adept as my 1st level feat (Vuman), because it'd allow me to have a wider selection of manuevers. However, the DM is going to allow me to switch out manuevers between short rests (using one of the newer UA).

So I no longer feel like that feat is completely worth it. Is there another feat that would be worth picking up?

Side note: My character is essentially Captain America, with the DM creating a special fighting style for my character (Essentially I can twf with a shield and fist using d8's, but only using those).

See if you can talk your DM into allow you to choose Crossbow Expert but make it Shield Expert and let you make attacks with your shield. I think mechanically with the feat, a shield and an empty hand should work the same as a hand crossbow and a shield. Make the shield a 1d6 melee weapon with throwing 30' range and do bludgeoning damage. Only difference is you could still grapple while bashing with the shield. Tradeoff is you can only throw it once till you get a magic returning shield. Seems fun if your DM is up for it!

[NaughtyTiger]

For Cap vibe, I went EK, bonded "weapon" shield and cast Catapult to "throw" my shield across the room.


As the Shield Master effects require either a Bonus Action or a Reaction, they can compete with some of the Battlemaster maneuvers.

I never understood this.
Healing word doesn't compete with Sanctuary.
Cunning action dash doesn't compete with Cunning action disengage.
Cast eldritch blast doesn't compete with swing an axe.

It is another option. And in this case it is a situational option (melee bonus action, or dodge reaction) vs a limited resource (4 dice per short rest).

[CTurbo]

Captain America huh?

Inspiring Leader or Res(Wis) would be great flavorful choices for this.

[Galithar]

Fluff wise Charger and Athlete are both good, though mechanically lacking.

Charger would be awesome as I'm just picturing Captain America doing a running "cannonball" into someone shield first and sending them flying. I swear that happened in one of the movies though I honestly might just be making it up! xD

Athlete doesn't really add much mechanically, but it is always nice to have some difficult terrain that you just leap over. And if you have to land in the difficult terrain you can stand up for 5 feet of movement, which incidently is exactly what you'd have left after your 5 foot running start, 20 foot jump (from 20 STR) and then 5 left to stand up with. Mechanically this only grants you 5 feet of extra movement through difficult terrain though. 15 feet normally, and 20 with a jump. It's more cinematic then actually useful :P

Edit: Also ditto what CTurbo said about Inspiring Leader

[Man_Over_Game]

I never understood this.
Healing word doesn't compete with Sanctuary.
Cunning action dash doesn't compete with Cunning action disengage.
Cast eldritch blast doesn't compete with swing an axe.

It is another option. And in this case it is a situational option (melee bonus action, or dodge reaction) vs a limited resource (4 dice per short rest).

Because those aren't used in the same scenarios.

But having to choose between attacking or knocking a target Prone? How often would either of those choices be circumstancial

[NaughtyTiger]

Because those aren't used in the same scenarios.

But having to choose between attacking or knocking a target Prone? How often would either of those choices be circumstancial

they are circumstantial when the circumstances arise.
let's get specific. manuevers + sheild bonus actions:

rally- give tempHp
commanders strike - let someone else attack
feint - next attack gets advantage+damage
knock prone - all attacks get advantage + buddy attacks get advantage until baddy stands up (original interpretation)


this is how that would play out.

default - knock prone
can't attack anyone - commanders strike or rally cuz Bob is near dead
bob is near dead + rogue could end fight this round - commanders strike
bob is near dead + can't end fight - rally
can't prone enemy - commanders strike or feint (not feint)

i am regularly faced with choices like kill my target (spiritual weapon) or heal the fallen party member (healing word) or protect the near dead member (sanctuary).
do you advise people to be wary about choosing between those spells?

[Man_Over_Game]

i am regularly faced with choices like kill my target (spiritual weapon) or heal the fallen party member (healing word).
do you advise people to be wary about choosing between those spells?

They still solve different problems. Should a Sorcerer invest in both Ice Knife and Fireball? Likely not, as something like Shield or Catapult can be used to solve a larger variety of problems when combined with Fireball.

Redundancy is only worthwhile when it's needed, when the failure to access that solution is catastrophic (for example, a wizard in an Antimagic Zone might want a normally-useless shortbow). Otherwise, redundancy is just inefficient.

To answer your question, yes, but only if you regularly need to do both at the same time, and if making that investment comes at a great cost.

[Contrast]

<snip>

i am regularly faced with choices like kill my target (spiritual weapon) or heal the fallen party member (healing word) or protect the near dead member (sanctuary).
do you advise people to be wary about choosing between those spells?

His DM is letting him use a shield and punch to dual wield with a d8. He can already shove then attack with a bonus action and if the DM is allowing that I doubt they're gonna get rules lawyery about attacking then shoving in the marginal situations where that difference is important. He'd effectively only be benefitting from the other two bullet points.

Opportunity cost is a thing. If someone had a load of concentration spells its sensible to choose some non-concentration spells even if they're worse than the concentration options because you've already got plently of stuff to do with your concentration and you can't do them both at the same time. Shieldmaster isn't as good a feat for someone who has PAM not because its suddenly bad but because the person already has something to do with their bonus action every turn so they're getting less benefit.

Anyways, on topic. I'd be looking at Prodigy (Athletics), Athlete or Grappler (before anyone jumps on me - the first bullet point and OPs fighting style allowing d8 shield bash seems like it could combo well, saves the extra additional attack to grapple and then shove prone). Those or something like Lucky would help you use terrain and do otherwise impossible/improbable things and feel a bit more Captain America like.

If you want to make the shield more central you could ask the DM to allow Defensive Duelist to work without a finesse weapon and be throwing your shield up all the time.

[MadBear]

His DM is letting him use a shield and punch to dual wield with a d8. He can already shove then attack with a bonus action and if the DM is allowing that I doubt they're gonna get rules lawyery about attacking then shoving in the marginal situations where that difference is important. He'd effectively only be benefitting from the other two bullet points.

Opportunity cost is a thing. If someone had a load of concentration spells its sensible to choose some non-concentration spells even if they're worse than the concentration options because you've already got plently of stuff to do with your concentration and you can't do them both at the same time. Shieldmaster isn't as good a feat for someone who has PAM not because its suddenly bad but because the person already has something to do with their bonus action every turn so they're getting less benefit.

Anyways, on topic. I'd be looking at Prodigy (Athletics), Athlete or Grappler (before anyone jumps on me - the first bullet point and OPs fighting style allowing d8 shield bash seems like it could combo well, saves the extra additional attack to grapple and then shove prone). Those or something like Lucky would help you use terrain and do otherwise impossible/improbable things and feel a bit more Captain America like.

If you want to make the shield more central you could ask the DM to allow Defensive Duelist to work without a finesse weapon and be throwing your shield up all the time.


I like the idea of prodigy (athletics) It'd definitely help sell the captain america vibe physically.

You're right that while Shield Master seems like a given, in my case, it'd actually be lackluster since I can already twf with my shield as a BA, and it deals d8 damage (along with my unarmed attacks).

Grappler isn't a bad idea either, and might be worth picking up once I've maxed strength (which is priority 1).

As far as throwing the shield goes, my DM is really liking my character concept, and the world has mages who will make custom order magic items, so a magic shield that can be thrown and returns is definitely on the table in the future.

[chando]

Feats Other than Res(wis) and Inspiring Leader could be Sentinel, Thougth, even Mobile would fit. Ask your dm if you migth find a Belt of Thor's Strength (instead of Giant) so you may not need to max Str rigth away...

[Wakarusa]

If your DM is homebrewing the class to such an extent I don't see where the concern is. Just
make up the feat that you want.

[HPisBS]

You know, Martial Adept is still really helpful since it gives you an extra superiority die. That would lessen the need to ration their use a bit.

Also, even though that UA Variant lets you trade in maneuvers, it's still nice to have more to choose from while in combat. After all, Maneuvers aren't really like spells whose utility changes in a semi-predictable fashion from day to day lol



... But if you don't think that's good enough anymore, then:

- Heavy Armor Master's static damage reduction pairs well with Parry (which is a maneuver I otherwise wouldn't choose, since Riposte exists)
- Mobile helps you position yourself to get full use of your maneuvers for proper battlefield control
- Sentinel allows some extra Attacks of Opportunity, and the buff to all AoOs allow pretty great combos with maneuvers (prone w/ 0 speed means you get to wail on them on your next turn)
- Polearm Master grants even more AoOs, plus you get a bonus action attack (which is also another opportunity to use a maneuver)

[Addaran]

- Sentinel allows some extra Attacks of Opportunity, and the buff to all AoOs allow pretty great combos with maneuvers (prone w/ 0 speed means you get to wail on them on your next turn)


That's just brilliant. =O

[djreynolds]

For shield master post errata

Human prodigy expertise in athletics, this way shield master should always work

Shield master gives you a BA, every round and you can attack at 5th level, BA shield bash, and then attack or dump them for your friends

In this case say at 5th level extra attack, you could attack, attack BA shield bash and then move off drawing an AoO which is at disadvantage to hit, and you could use evasive footwork and add a SD to your AC making you even tougher to hit

Mobile is nice, but you may want to draw AoO from opponents so you mates can come in attack and walk away... so now the paladin can smite that dude you just dumped over and move on to another.

So don't sleep on evasive footwork, its a good maneuver in this situation if you attack twice and then use shield master.

The trip maneuver might be wasted on you simply for the fact you are not using a heavy weapon and GWM, you're job is to set the battlefield up so others like a paladin with smites or GWM or a rogue can come in and possibly land a crit.

Menacing is nice and so is goading

[Arkhios]

A minor clarification, as I see this misunderstanding quite a lot:

Sentinel does not grant you "extra Attacks of Opportunity" in the sense of making more than one in the same round. It just opens more circumstances to use the one Reaction you have each round.

[HPisBS]

A minor clarification, as I see this misunderstanding quite a lot:

Sentinel does not grant you "extra Attacks of Opportunity" in the sense of making more than one in the same round. It just opens more circumstances to use the one Reaction you have each round.

Yes, that's exactly what was meant. Just don't want to say "extra opportunities to make Attacks of Opportunity" lol

[sigfile]

Your DM might have given you (weapon) proficiency with your shield already. If not, Tavern Brawler is your friend. Punch your enemy with Trip Attack to knock him down, use your bonus action to grapple (movement 0 - the enemy can't stand up). Shield bash with advantage with additional attacks.

I'll second Inspiring Leader, though. Very, very appropriate.