How to handle a power gamer?

[Vectros]

I'll be running a session starting in a month or so. This is a group of friends that I'd consider more casual-one per month sessions on a Saturday for 6-7 hours; a bit of a silly group which can swap allegiance on the fly and generally be difficult to anticipate. We've played together for several years, swapping who the DM is, going through different systems-Mistborn, Stars Wars FFG, DnD 5E to name a few. One player, we'll call him Mike, tends to power game, or maybe it's min max. He figures out how to make himself strong as possible for combat-in the campaign that ended last night he was well beyond most other characters-I'd say my character was the only one who could stand a chance, simply because he was built with a crit style build-easy to crit with additional damage and effects on crits. Anyways, seeing how he has played previously, I anticipate him building up a character-right now probably a Cleric, but isn't actually determined, and it'll probably be as strong as possible.

I'm ok with a player wanting to be strong and don't want to rain on his parade, but am looking for advice on how to handle combat. I don't want the party to just wipe every encounter without issue thanks to him (which as a note, we tend not to kill each other most of the time, the group as a whole doesn't like it), but I'm not looking to wreck him either.

What is your advice for handling this?

[Phhase]

Pick something that requires less hitting and more thinking. A puzzle boss, as it were. That way, it doesn't play into Mike's strengths, and doesn't punish the party's weaknesses.

[MoiMagnus]

The first thing is to actually find what is "the problem".

1) Is the problem that this player come with a mindset which isn't really compatible with the other players? He cares about "winning" while the table is about "living a story"? He likes to show his skills as the game in a same way a scientist would talk about his last discovery while the remaining of the table do not care about it?

2) Or is it just that he is "too good at it", and that his mindset would not be a problem at all if he was bad at optimising?

3) Or maybe none of 1 and 2 are a problem, and it is just that in practice he end up taking the spotlight more than the average character.

The 3rd case is the easiest to handle. A good discussion with the player to direct him to let the other have the spotlight. The easiest solution is him taking the role of a support. Ty to play an OP character is OP because he makes the other character unkillable / control the enemy so that his teammate are never in difficulty / ... but at the end it is the remaining of the team with is making the job and has the spotlight.

In the 2nd case, maybe he will be interested by the challenge of having to compensate for a character initially inferior. When we play homebrew with character flaws that have actual mechanical consequences, we often take the rule "veteran of the homebrew have an additional character flaw". Try having a talk like "Well, the other players are much more casual than you and don't really want to take the time to 'get good' because that's not the way they enjoy playing D&D, and well, you are particularly good at creating and playing optimised characters. As such the party end up very unbalanced. Are you ok if I put some 'veteran penalty' to your character to compensate the fact that you're 'too good'?"

The 1st case is the most problematic. It will depends a lot on how much this player and the remaining of the table are willing to compromise, and often the balance reached is quite precarious and won't last for long campaigns.

[Contrast]

Easiest solution is to suggest he might enjoy playing a support caster (bard for example). He gets to enjoy being the play maker and his spells and tactical decisions being the deciding factor in battles while the rest of the party gets to enjoy all the sweet buffs and debuffs that make their characters look awesome.

Other solutions - make sure combat isn't the only important element of your game. It's fine to let players have an area to shine as long as other players also get an opportunity.

Edit - It's also worth saying that while you def can optimise a 5E character, it would be difficult to optimise one so well that you're single handedly resolving all encounters and the rest of the party isn't really contributing (assuming you're doing enough encounters to adequately drain spell slots - if this is a problem due to trying to fit that many encounters into a single day consider the rest variants in the DMG). I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[ThornTheDruid]

Make him EARN the power. If he wants to be powerful, so be it. Have him be chasing after it.

Make a quest for a magic item

Let him be powerful, but his wisdom/intelligence/charisma could be god awfully low

[Laserlight]

My first 4e character singlehandedly and easily obliterated his first encounter; the rest of the group was moaning about "we're all going to die" and then *poof* we're done. I realized a) the DM wasn't good at improvising and b) the other players didn't know anything about optimizing or tactics. I retired that character and the next week I brought a lazylord, who almost always buffed the other players or transferred his action for their use. Worked out well. I second the recommendation that Mike take a support caster.

Last summer's campaign had a very experienced, very tactical player and a couple of noobs. Noob tempest cleric was okay but noob rogue was having a problem, partly because he was indecisive (you don't kill many monsters if your action is "I don't know what to do so I stay in the alcove and hide") and partly because he didn't really have a handle on how his mechanics worked ("You CAN attack that guy, but if you attacked this guy here, you'd get to Sneak Attack him. Are you sure you don't want to do that?"). We eventually got him up to speed, and it still wasn't as impressive as the polearm-wielding shredding machine but rogue could one-hit-kill almost anything I sent against them and he liked that.

[Duff]

The first thing is to actually find what is "the problem".

Really good question. Most of problems caused by power gaming will be solved by following the advice of "Ensure Mike plays a support character"

[GrayDeath]

As has beens aid already: Why is that a problem?

My interpreation of your post is: because the other Players are not going to be optimizing".
No since youa re playing 5th Edition, its relatively hard to make a Character that is not competent at what hes supposed to do (if compared to say, 3.5, not if compared to 4th^^).
Just be sure that your other players characters are "up to snuff" by droopping a few hints if necessary, and talk outside with the PPP (potentiap Power Player^^), to suggest him not to voerdo it, as suggested a support caster usually helps to prevent optimizers from hugging the spotlight but still allows them to be really powerful.

I hope this helps. ^^

[Teaguethebean]

Let Mike be strong just make other things important. Make sure that Intelligence skills are used and helpful, and include important social situations. A "minmaxer often gives themselves a terrible charisma, and/or Intelligence. Them being strong isn't bad, it can just make an unoptomized fighter feel like they should be doing more damage but they just don't. In total let him be strong but make sure to value all of the skills and stats.

[Tvtyrant]

I'll be running a session starting in a month or so. This is a group of friends that I'd consider more casual-one per month sessions on a Saturday for 6-7 hours; a bit of a silly group which can swap allegiance on the fly and generally be difficult to anticipate. We've played together for several years, swapping who the DM is, going through different systems-Mistborn, Stars Wars FFG, DnD 5E to name a few. One player, we'll call him Mike, tends to power game, or maybe it's min max. He figures out how to make himself strong as possible for combat-in the campaign that ended last night he was well beyond most other characters-I'd say my character was the only one who could stand a chance, simply because he was built with a crit style build-easy to crit with additional damage and effects on crits. Anyways, seeing how he has played previously, I anticipate him building up a character-right now probably a Cleric, but isn't actually determined, and it'll probably be as strong as possible.

I'm ok with a player wanting to be strong and don't want to rain on his parade, but am looking for advice on how to handle combat. I don't want the party to just wipe every encounter without issue thanks to him (which as a note, we tend not to kill each other most of the time, the group as a whole doesn't like it), but I'm not looking to wreck him either.

What is your advice for handling this?
Talk to him and the other players about it. "Hey could you look at Jim's sheet and try and only be half again as good at combat? It makes it easier to balance encounters so everyone feels like they participated."

[Droid Tony]

Well, if you feel combat might be unbalanced by this one player....then simply balance it back to where you want it.

1.Nunbers Add more foes. This is a great way to balance an encounter. Add a foe or two. Normaly it does not take too much. If the encounter is six orcs....make it seven. Also weaker, secondary foes work out great. A group of six goblins is not that tough....but add in three war wolves. Or give each hobgoblin a war dog. Or give each bugbear a kobold.

2.Power Add some more power to the foes. This is a great way to balance an encounter. And again, you don't need to go crazy. Replace the orcs clubs with swords. Give the goblins some slings. Give the hobgiblings a net. Add in flaming or acid sling bullets. And, add anything with magic.

3.Non-Combat This is the big one. Make the story not so much about combat. Put the focus anywhere else.

[pming]

Hiya!




What is your advice for handling this?

Well, the sad, simply fact is this: Unless EVERYONE at the table is on board with 'power gaming'...it won't work. He'll just piss everyone off and he'll be annoyed with how 'bad/weak/lame' all the other PC's are and he'll transfer that to the actual Players themselves.

Next time, don't let Mike roll dice. Power Gamers hate it when they can't roll dice to show everyone at the table "how kewl they are with the rules". I mean, hey, if he's going to suck all the fun outta the game for everyone there, it's only fair they do the same. ... ... As I said...if he's the only one, he's gotta go or change his ways.

I wish there was another way, but in 40 years of DM'ing, I've yet to find it. :(

[sithlordnergal]

I'll be running a session starting in a month or so. This is a group of friends that I'd consider more casual-one per month sessions on a Saturday for 6-7 hours; a bit of a silly group which can swap allegiance on the fly and generally be difficult to anticipate. We've played together for several years, swapping who the DM is, going through different systems-Mistborn, Stars Wars FFG, DnD 5E to name a few. One player, we'll call him Mike, tends to power game, or maybe it's min max. He figures out how to make himself strong as possible for combat-in the campaign that ended last night he was well beyond most other characters-I'd say my character was the only one who could stand a chance, simply because he was built with a crit style build-easy to crit with additional damage and effects on crits. Anyways, seeing how he has played previously, I anticipate him building up a character-right now probably a Cleric, but isn't actually determined, and it'll probably be as strong as possible.

I'm ok with a player wanting to be strong and don't want to rain on his parade, but am looking for advice on how to handle combat. I don't want the party to just wipe every encounter without issue thanks to him (which as a note, we tend not to kill each other most of the time, the group as a whole doesn't like it), but I'm not looking to wreck him either.

What is your advice for handling this?

So, it seems like you're looking for encounter advice, rather then advice to stop power gaming itself. And as long as it doesn't cause problems with the other plays, that's fine. And honestly...designing an encounter that challenges a power gamer without killing the non-power gamers is a challenge. My best advice is that when you make encounters, make sure you either add some mooks, or add some strong creature to whatever the original encounter was going. I.E. if you were to fight some Orcs, add in something like a Red Fang of Shagrass to the encounter. That way the non-power gamers can fight something that won't one shot them, while the power gamer can have some sort of challenge. And who knows, maybe the power gamer will get knocked out, letting the rest of the party to jump in.

[Contrast]

So, it seems like you're looking for encounter advice, rather then advice to stop power gaming itself. And as long as it doesn't cause problems with the other plays, that's fine. And honestly...designing an encounter that challenges a power gamer without killing the non-power gamers is a challenge. My best advice is that when you make encounters, make sure you either add some mooks, or add some strong creature to whatever the original encounter was going. I.E. if you were to fight some Orcs, add in something like a Red Fang of Shagrass to the encounter. That way the non-power gamers can fight something that won't one shot them, while the power gamer can have some sort of challenge. And who knows, maybe the power gamer will get knocked out, letting the rest of the party to jump in.


Well, if you feel combat might be unbalanced by this one player....then simply balance it back to where you want it.

1.Nunbers Add more foes. This is a great way to balance an encounter. Add a foe or two. Normaly it does not take too much. If the encounter is six orcs....make it seven. Also weaker, secondary foes work out great. A group of six goblins is not that tough....but add in three war wolves. Or give each hobgoblin a war dog. Or give each bugbear a kobold.

2.Power Add some more power to the foes. This is a great way to balance an encounter. And again, you don't need to go crazy. Replace the orcs clubs with swords. Give the goblins some slings. Give the hobgiblings a net. Add in flaming or acid sling bullets. And, add anything with magic.

Just to say that these methods can be a little self defeating. Optimiser will continue to optimise and possibly be encouraged to optimise harder to cope with the scaled up difficulty, meanwhile the other PCs will be feeling even more useless due to the increased challenge.

It can also be pretty unfulfilling for the PCs - I was once playing in a system with less balanced power levels than 5E and had made a weak character who was focused on tech skills but was getting fed up as I kept on getting KOd in combat so I set about making myself better in combat but ended up wildly overshooting the rest of the party to the point that I could have probably solo'd the entire rest of the party single handedly. The DM basically started including a giant uber foe in every fight for me to go toe to toe against. Them problem was it took all of one combat for me to realise they were only there to keep me occupied and either died the moment everyone else had finished their opponents or died the moment I went down to damage way less than I had been dishing out. Made all the investment I had put into making myself better in combat seem kinda pointless.

This is less of a problem in 5E because the power levels are much more heavily constrained but is something to be mindful of - a player shouldn't be punished (or worse penalise the entire party) for optimising to be good at what they want their character to be good at.

[sithlordnergal]

Just to say that these methods can be a little self defeating. Optimiser will continue to optimise and possibly be encouraged to optimise harder to cope with the scaled up difficulty, meanwhile the other PCs will be feeling even more useless due to the increased challenge.

It can also be pretty unfulfilling for the PCs - I was once playing in a system with less balanced power levels than 5E and had made a weak character who was focused on tech skills but was getting fed up as I kept on getting KOd in combat so I set about making myself better in combat but ended up wildly overshooting the rest of the party to the point that I could have probably solo'd the entire rest of the party single handedly. The DM basically started including a giant uber foe in every fight for me to go toe to toe against. Them problem was it took all of one combat for me to realise they were only there to keep me occupied and either died the moment everyone else had finished their opponents or died the moment I went down to damage way less than I had been dishing out. Made all the investment I had put into making myself better in combat seem kinda pointless.

This is less of a problem in 5E because the power levels are much more heavily constrained but is something to be mindful of - a player shouldn't be punished (or worse penalise the entire party) for optimising to be good at what they want their character to be good at.

It does present that problem...creating encounters for someone who is optimized extremely well while others aren't is a pretty tricky business. And unfortunately, unless the other players optimize as well, then you can't really do much about it outside of trying to build encounters to try and make sure all players enjoy it. Maybe a few normal encounters with a couple of deadly encounters thrown in could work? That way the non-optimized players enjoy themselves, and every so often the optimized player will get a nice challenge?

[da newt]

It really depends on the group and the individual. Having one PC who is really highly optimized in a party with a bunch of very vanilla or RP focused PCs can work just fine IF the power gamer is generous and team oriented, but it can ruin a game if they are selfish, hog the spotlight, and look down upon the others.

Start by talking to the individual, let them know your concerns and why it matters. If they understand and can get behind the idea of doing what you can to increase everyone's success / joy vice trying to "win" it can make it much easier.

Unfortunately some folks struggle with this notion.

I'm of the opinion that it is best to just talk it through in a respectable, open, understanding way, while looking for good compromises. Where I've seen this sort of thing negatively impact a game, is when it isn't discussed openly.

It's also a good idea to ensure that the DM looks to give them some of what they want out of the game too - give them some real challenges and let them show of their cool tricks some too.

Another option is to ask the power gamer to help the team improve all the PC's combat prowess (like a coach), or challenge the power gamer to create a PC out of an unusual race / class / character combo (I bet you can't make a strong Kobold Bard who cannot tell a lie ...)

[Vectros]

So, it seems like you're looking for encounter advice, rather then advice to stop power gaming itself. And as long as it doesn't cause problems with the other plays, that's fine. And honestly...designing an encounter that challenges a power gamer without killing the non-power gamers is a challenge. My best advice is that when you make encounters, make sure you either add some mooks, or add some strong creature to whatever the original encounter was going. I.E. if you were to fight some Orcs, add in something like a Red Fang of Shagrass to the encounter. That way the non-power gamers can fight something that won't one shot them, while the power gamer can have some sort of challenge. And who knows, maybe the power gamer will get knocked out, letting the rest of the party to jump in.

Based on the replies I've been getting, it looks like I should have been a bit more descriptive.

Mike doesn't actually bug the players that I've noticed. Rather, being a player alongeside him and talking with the DM, we both know he likes to look at the possibilities and determine the best way to make himself strong with a given class. I don't believe other players mind that he usually shines in combat, and I fully intend to utilize all 3 pillars to allow everyone to shine.

My question wasn't how to talk to him or anything like that...I'm ok with someone wanting to be strong in combat. Heck, I can be that way myself. Rather, how can I make combat challenging for the group, without simply rolling over the other players? I don't want to obsolete him in combat by just using his weaknesses, and I don't want to utilize monsters so strong everyone else doesn't do anything.

This reply+ one other I noted seemed to be most relevant, just add more numbers. So I may have to just on the fly do things in combat to adjust-hearing a horn, signaling reinforcements for example.

I also am intrigued by the puzzle-boss idea someone mentioned, if you have any puzzle fight ideas I'm all ears. Thanks for the responses!

[Pex]

Not every combat, but in enough of them have a big bad foe he is meant to fight. It's obvious if the other PCs were to go toe-toe with it they'll be stomped, but his character can take it and dish it. The big bad foe attacks his character first and foremost. Doesn't matter how logical it is to attack the squishies, the big bad wants to take down the toughest enemy - the PC. It's what the player wants and likes. He enjoys taking down the toughest foes with the added fun of protecting his fellow party members from the big bad foe's wrath. That's his thing for his moment in the spotlight. The rest of the party fights the rest of the bad guys.

For those other combats that's when it's another players' turn for the spotlight. Perhaps in those combats it's power gamer's job to take out the mooks while the spellcaster for example takes out the BBEG of the fight because it's a duel of magic. A mind flayer is a good example of this type of BBEG. Power gamer has to fight the minions to keep them away from the spellcaster.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Based on the replies I've been getting, it looks like I should have been a bit more descriptive.

Mike doesn't actually bug the players that I've noticed. Rather, being a player alongeside him and talking with the DM, we both know he likes to look at the possibilities and determine the best way to make himself strong with a given class. I don't believe other players mind that he usually shines in combat, and I fully intend to utilize all 3 pillars to allow everyone to shine.

My question wasn't how to talk to him or anything like that...I'm ok with someone wanting to be strong in combat. Heck, I can be that way myself. Rather, how can I make combat challenging for the group, without simply rolling over the other players? I don't want to obsolete him in combat by just using his weaknesses, and I don't want to utilize monsters so strong everyone else doesn't do anything.

This reply+ one other I noted seemed to be most relevant, just add more numbers. So I may have to just on the fly do things in combat to adjust-hearing a horn, signaling reinforcements for example.

I also am intrigued by the puzzle-boss idea someone mentioned, if you have any puzzle fight ideas I'm all ears. Thanks for the responses!

There is the common "the boss can't die until something happens"
Make a mirror pazal that need to be solved in the middle of the fight for the boss to die. Make sure your party understand that it should be dead(I use a health bar and make it stuck on zero).

[Keravath]

Based on the replies I've been getting, it looks like I should have been a bit more descriptive.

Mike doesn't actually bug the players that I've noticed. Rather, being a player alongeside him and talking with the DM, we both know he likes to look at the possibilities and determine the best way to make himself strong with a given class. I don't believe other players mind that he usually shines in combat, and I fully intend to utilize all 3 pillars to allow everyone to shine.

My question wasn't how to talk to him or anything like that...I'm ok with someone wanting to be strong in combat. Heck, I can be that way myself. Rather, how can I make combat challenging for the group, without simply rolling over the other players? I don't want to obsolete him in combat by just using his weaknesses, and I don't want to utilize monsters so strong everyone else doesn't do anything.

This reply+ one other I noted seemed to be most relevant, just add more numbers. So I may have to just on the fly do things in combat to adjust-hearing a horn, signaling reinforcements for example.

I also am intrigued by the puzzle-boss idea someone mentioned, if you have any puzzle fight ideas I'm all ears. Thanks for the responses!

In 5e, I haven't found this to be an issue except for GWM/PAM fighter/barbarian and Xbow Xpert/sharpshooter archery builds. The archery fighting style and/or methods of regularly creating advantage mean that these builds can outdamage almost any other class in the game. A recent game I played in had three characters with the sharpshooter feat (though only one also had crossbow expert) and except against high AC opponents the damage was significant.

However, every other build including clerics, paladins, sorlocks and others have to use resources to generate damage spikes. In addition, every class can make a decent contribution in combat. The difference between top and bottom of typical builds is something like 25% to 50% which isn't that significant when averaged over a group. Unless the rest of the party is specifically unoptimized for role play reasons (e.g. a fighter with 12 strength and 12 dex) or a wizard who chooses not to take any damaging cantrips then the combat contributions from each character aren't that different. (e.g. a level 5 firebolt is 2d10 = 11 average while two attacks from a melee character might be 2(d8+4) = 17 or about 50% more (if they boosted their attack stat with ASI) .. warlock agonizing blast might be 2(d10+4) = 19. When you add in spells and other abilities then things even out more or less.

As a result, I wouldn't worry too much in this case about your "optimizer" unless they go the GWM/PAM or XBE/SS route.

A cleric using spirit guardians, an attack with booming blade, and maybe spiritual weapon is blowing both a 2nd and 3rd level spell slot and took either Magic Initiate or is an Arcana cleric in order to obtain the cantrip. It works well but they are using resources to achieve that goal.

[Doug Lampert]

In 5e, I haven't found this to be an issue except for GWM/PAM fighter/barbarian and Xbow Xpert/sharpshooter archery builds. The archery fighting style and/or methods of regularly creating advantage mean that these builds can outdamage almost any other class in the game. A recent game I played in had three characters with the sharpshooter feat (though only one also had crossbow expert) and except against high AC opponents the damage was significant.

However, every other build including clerics, paladins, sorlocks and others have to use resources to generate damage spikes. In addition, every class can make a decent contribution in combat. The difference between top and bottom of typical builds is something like 25% to 50% which isn't that significant when averaged over a group. Unless the rest of the party is specifically unoptimized for role play reasons (e.g. a fighter with 12 strength and 12 dex) or a wizard who chooses not to take any damaging cantrips then the combat contributions from each character aren't that different. (e.g. a level 5 firebolt is 2d10 = 11 average while two attacks from a melee character might be 2(d8+4) = 17 or about 50% more (if they boosted their attack stat with ASI) .. warlock agonizing blast might be 2(d10+4) = 19. When you add in spells and other abilities then things even out more or less.

As a result, I wouldn't worry too much in this case about your "optimizer" unless they go the GWM/PAM or XBE/SS route.

A cleric using spirit guardians, an attack with booming blade, and maybe spiritual weapon is blowing both a 2nd and 3rd level spell slot and took either Magic Initiate or is an Arcana cleric in order to obtain the cantrip. It works well but they are using resources to achieve that goal.

One solution is to ASK the powergamer what the exploits he sees in the system are, so that you can close them. Openly ask for advice on how to close the loopholes.

A significant part of the appeal is often in figuring the trick out, the build mini-game. Adding constraints can be part of that mini-game.

What do you actually need to nerf in 5th edition? Pixie cheese is nerfed by the "GM determines what you summon" rule. Wish/Simulacrum can be nerfed by the AL rules. GWM/PAM and XBE/SS are both nerfed by replacing all -5 to hit +10 to damage features with a +1 to an ability. Coffeelock is eliminated by a rule that you can't create slots except as replacements for expended slots.

Anything else?

[Kurt Kurageous]

I'm ok with a player wanting to be strong and don't want to rain on his parade, but am looking for advice on how to handle combat. I don't want the party to just wipe every encounter without issue thanks to him (which as a note, we tend not to kill each other most of the time, the group as a whole doesn't like it), but I'm not looking to wreck him either.

What is your advice for handling this?

Is anyone not going to have fun with it? If yes, there's the problem. I can't for the life of me see what the problem is if they want to be competent in combat.

Did he start with the standard array or point buy? The game/CR is built around these point score possibilities. If they got their AS from dice, then the problem is you don't want to live with those results.

What bugs me is the DM vs Player dynamic. This player is psyched to build something that will work in ONE aspect of the game, and here we are trying to figure out how to wreck it with advice like:
Give all monsters they fight the max HP.
Always use monsters/spells with INT/WIS/CHA saves.
Make your game more social.
Make your game more exploration/survival.
Make your game more puzzly.
Nerf martial feats that require huge sacrifices to pull off that NEVER SCALE.
Force him to play support.

Is he having fun? Are the other players having fun? Your game ain't broke.

[Sorinth]

For the most part the way to handle it is to try and split the PCs into groups and have them face their own smaller battle. Generally this is done by having minions. So for example rather then the party facing a pair of giants, they face one giant and his goblin minions. You have the giant engage the power gamer, and the minions go after the rest of the party. Avoid the situation described by @Contrast where the BBEG is invincible until the rest of the combat is finished.

Another way of doing is to have the monsters pre-split into groups with enough distance/difficult terrain between the groups that the PCs can't easily move from engaging one group to the other. So for example on a mountain path there is a group of orcs blocking the path and a group higher up another group of orcs pushing boulders down the slope. The PCs would likely split and try to enagage both groups at the same time, if it takes a round or 2 to climb the slope and engage the ones on the slope then even if the power gamer finishes his group off faster it will take time to reach the other group.

There's also the classic evil mirror where each PC fights a mirror image of themselves.

Finally you can also use debuff spells/effects. An enemy cleric casting Bane or an enemy Bard using Cutting Words on the GWM/Sharpshooter can severely hinder that PC. Save or suck spells/abilities work the same way, taking a PC out of the fight. So if the power gamer is leading the way, and a pack of ghouls ambush him, he might easily get paralyzed and the rest of the PCs will have to come to his rescue. Note that overuse of these tactics can ruin the fun for some players, especially if you are always targeting a specific player.

[Sorinth]

Is anyone not going to have fun with it? If yes, there's the problem. I can't for the life of me see what the problem is if they want to be competent in combat.

Did he start with the standard array or point buy? The game/CR is built around these point score possibilities. If they got their AS from dice, then the problem is you don't want to live with those results.

What bugs me is the DM vs Player dynamic. This player is psyched to build something that will work in ONE aspect of the game, and here we are trying to figure out how to wreck it with advice like:
Give all monsters they fight the max HP.
Always use monsters/spells with INT/WIS/CHA saves.
Make your game more social.
Make your game more exploration/survival.
Make your game more puzzly.
Nerf martial feats that require huge sacrifices to pull off that NEVER SCALE.
Force him to play support.

Is he having fun? Are the other players having fun? Your game ain't broke.

I'm pretty sure the OP's question was more along the lines of how do I create a combat encounter that doesn't trivialize the other players contribution.

It's not a lot of fun for the other players if one player makes all combat trivial because he's too powerful, nor is it fun for them if the encounter is super deadly to all but one player because that's the only way to challenge him/her.

[Vectros]

I'm pretty sure the OP's question was more along the lines of how do I create a combat encounter that doesn't trivialize the other players contribution.

It's not a lot of fun for the other players if one player makes all combat trivial because he's too powerful, nor is it fun for them if the encounter is super deadly to all but one player because that's the only way to challenge him/her.

Yep, nailed it here. Don't want to endanger/trivialize the others while not stepping on toes of said power gamer.

I don't think any of the players are going to get upset that he's stronger-I want to create combats that are memorable. The ones that are too easy tend to not be memorable, but the ones that are too hard and kill everyone, unless the players are totally cool with it (this group isn't really that style), is a bad memory.

I think the best I'm seeing so far is to get him divided from the group to solo fight a baddie meant for him, while party fights other things. But I'm up for other ideas too.

[Yakmala]

It's ok for a power gamer to be strong, but typically, power gamers will min-max. They focus on certain aspects of their stats/skills/feats while ignoring others. So, if you want to make things challenging for the power gamer and give other party members ways to not only contribute, but potentially save the power gamer's ass, take the following easy steps.

1: Figure out what the power gamer character's dump stat(s) are.

2: Include enemies with spells and abilities that exploit that dump stat.

3: Profit.

Example: I had a Blade Singer in my game who had around a 27 AC, with a cloak of displacement and mirror images. He was far more powerful than the rest of the party and none of my enemies could lay a finger on him. But he also had a Charisma score of 8. One Banish spell later, he was chilling in another dimension and the rest of the party got to save the day.

[da newt]

Variety will be key. Sometimes give them combat that doesn't suit the power gamer's style / strengths, sometimes have the hoard send 6 guys after the power gamer and 2 guys after each of the others, sometimes have a few goons and one BBEG who focuses on the power gamer, sometimes split the party / combat, make encounters where there are normal goons (short sword/leather) and some PAM/plate goons, sometimes add a caster who de-buff's the power gamer or a handful of archers at range with cover who snipe the power gamer, or have the enemy decide to avoid the power gamer as much as possible and focus on the squishier PCs - make him work to engage anything, add some more puzzle / riddle / social / intrigue / infiltration / stealth / magic / etc problems that need to be solved with something other than toe to toe combat, have the bad guys capture the power gamer in the night and make a rescue mission for the rest of the party, posses or charm the power gamer and turn his PC into the BBEG for a bit ... and also give the power gamer opportunities to show off and be the hero.

Do what you can to keep it fun for everyone.

[Sigreid]

If all else fails, it's nothing that a tire iron and the element of surprise can't fix. 🙈🙉🙊

[Sorinth]

It depends a bit on what class/role they take, but assuming the power gamer will/can tank for the party then the classic "puzzle" encounter is when the monster is either only damaged by a specific unwieldy thing that takes a skill check to operate, or only takes damage under certain conditions which need to be maintained by other party members via skill checks.

This way the skill checks become critical to defeating the monster, and the power gamer's role in the fight is simply to keep the monster occupied. He should still have fun going toe-to-toe with a BBEG, but the rest of the party is critical to winning.

[Jakinbandw]

Well, the sad, simply fact is this: Unless EVERYONE at the table is on board with 'power gaming'...it won't work. He'll just piss everyone off and he'll be annoyed with how 'bad/weak/lame' all the other PC's are and he'll transfer that to the actual Players themselves.

Next time, don't let Mike roll dice. Power Gamers hate it when they can't roll dice to show everyone at the table "how kewl they are with the rules". I mean, hey, if he's going to suck all the fun outta the game for everyone there, it's only fair they do the same. ... ... As I said...if he's the only one, he's gotta go or change his ways.

I wish there was another way, but in 40 years of DM'ing, I've yet to find it. :(

At least in my experience this isn't true. I GM and occasionally play. When I play I'm a power gamer/minmaxer just due to enjoying a chance to play with the character creation rules. Right now I'm in a Dungeons the Dragoning campaign and I generally deal just over twice as much damage as all the other players. That doesn't change the fact that in the first session I didn't make a single attack, instead focusing on healing NPCs. Out of combat my character is from the forgotten realms, so he doesn't understand psykers or guns or space ships, which means that while he's a good healer, he can't lead the group out of combat, or help with such things.

The group didn't even realize that I was minmaxed till at the end of the second session I finally pulled out my mace and two shot a miniboss. After that I faded back into the background again. I also always offer to help other players with their builds as I just enjoy optimization puzzles. It's not about being the strongest, it's about having a chance to play the game between sessions.