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Tam_OConnor
2007-10-22, 02:33 AM
Hello, all you crazy wonderful people. I've got a question for y'all: Exalted. I know it's a major high-powered system and I've heard generally good things about it. I've only played d20 systems; how crazy are the mechanics? And, second, is getting all the various books worthwhile? Thanks bunches!

Reel On, Love
2007-10-22, 02:55 AM
What do you mean by "crazy"? Exalted's mechanics use the not-so-complicated dice pool system, but the dice pools get really big. Also, it's a crunch-heavy game--even moreso than D&D. It's more complex, in regards to combat: you have to worry about things like mote efficiency (how fast you're spending Essence compared to the other guy), combos with extra actions and perfect attacks/defenses, and the like. However, the mechanics detract from play less. I'd say the game is definitely worth checking out--but don't buy splatbooks until you know you're into that sort of thing. (And keep in mind two games of Exalted can go in very different ways.)

Zincorium
2007-10-22, 03:43 AM
Personally I really like Exalted, although I've only played in a dragonblooded game and DMed solar (standard) exalted. Mainly, the key difference from D&D is that all of the players can make physics "sit down and shut up" like a D&D wizard, and so no one gets bored after a certain point.

I do highly recommend finding someone who has some experience playing the game, the system for motes confused the living hell out of me the first time I read through it all.

As far as the books, only the main one is actually needed, the others provide options but they are fairly specific.

Renx
2007-10-22, 03:50 AM
If possible, go for exalted v1, since they screwed up a *lot* of things with v2.

Kantolin
2007-10-22, 03:53 AM
Exalted has a wonderful, wonderful setting and very interesting ideas, and my gosh are the mechanics cluttered and confusing. X_x We're still trying to figure out how exactly things work...

As a note, though:


If possible, go for exalted v1, since they screwed up a *lot* of things with v2.

Like what and why? I keep hearing that they wrecked up second, but my currently group is eagerly wanting to change over to it.

WhiteHarness
2007-10-22, 06:20 AM
Exalted would be my system of choice for high-powered gaming, except that I passionately hate the setting, which seems inextricably built-into the rules. It'd take more effort than it's worth to divorce the mechanics from the horrid world in the books.

Tengu
2007-10-22, 06:24 AM
Not a fan of anime or kitchen sink worlds, huh WhiteHarness?

Caduceus
2007-10-22, 07:19 AM
I've never played Exalted, but I happen to have bought the main sourcebook a couple months ago. I spent about two weeks looking at it, and realized the other members of my gaming group wouldn't enjoy it the way we enjoy DnD. I did, however, notice that once you remove all the fluff, the Essence and Charms system would work quite well for a Naruto-esque game. Replace the word Essence with Chakra, and Charms with Ninjutsu/Genjutsu/Taijutsu as appropriate. The one thing that really annoyed me about the system was the heavy dependancy on ad-hoc rulings (I may be wrong about it, because I never quite got used to the terminology and they may have included examples for levels of difficulty for certain skills).

Tengu
2007-10-22, 07:26 AM
Difficulty is always 7 - this is not WoD. If you want to do something harder, you must roll more successes. If something hindrances you in your action, you roll less dice. It's all in the rules.

WhiteHarness
2007-10-22, 08:26 AM
Not a fan of anime or kitchen sink worlds, huh WhiteHarness?

Not really, no. Plus, I hate the "Invincible Sword Princess" theme that infuses all such fiction. It's so dreadfully overdone nowadays...

Tengu
2007-10-22, 08:49 AM
To each on their own. I prefer such setting much more than knights in shining armor, long-bearded wise wizards, nature-loving elven archers and drunken dwarves with axes.

Qooroo
2007-10-22, 11:34 AM
A few observations about Exalted, purely from my experience:

The system is easier than D&D. It's crunchy, but its crunch tends to be of the same stripe for the most part, so it's all crunchy in the same way. It feels more like one crunchy system than a few different crunchy systems interacting.

The world is built into the rules, making it innapropriate for use with different fluff. However, the world is broad enough that you can play pretty much any epic fantasy game you'd like within it, ranging from an Odyssey-esque epic to the most over-the-top Wuxia anime. The game is primarily influenced by epic fantasy of both the east and the west, both ancient and modern (at which point the line blurs) and can be used to do all of it. However, the fluff is done with a mildly eastern bias, which can turn people off the game because they percieve it as 'too anime' or whatever.

Indon
2007-10-22, 11:56 AM
Difficulty is always 7 - this is not WoD. If you want to do something harder, you must roll more successes. If something hindrances you in your action, you roll less dice. It's all in the rules.

There are charms (Sidereal) that modify target numbers. That's a Sidereal-magic thing, though.

The mechanics are excellent; the system manages to have generic, skill-based mechanics without actually _feeling_ generic.

As noted earlier, the environment is tied in closely with the mechanics, which is to my preference so I think it's awesome.

The stunt system encourages crazy-awesomeness, as well.

As for sourcebooks, I have:
Solar book
Dragon-Blooded book
Sidereal book
Players' Guide (which contains play information about heroic mortals, flaws/merits, and other junk)
The Book of Three Circles (Sorcery/occult sourcebook)
Scavenger Sons (Setting sourcebook)
A couple aspect books.

I've used everything but the aspect books, but in particular I've used Scavenger Sons extensively; the book comes with in-depth information on a lot of local politics and economics, and it makes it very easy to DM a complex and interesting Creation.

Behind Scavenger Sons I've used the base-types sourcebooks; mind that my preferred Exalted campaign style is cross-type, so you may not want to bother. The Players' guide is also nice if you have players who like skimming through books looking for ways to be quirky.

I'll say one more thing about the setting, specific to cross-type campaigns: Exalted offers many differing character types with explicitly different power levels; but my experience DM'ing the system has led me to believe that Solars, Dragon-Blooded, and Sidereal are at about the same level, despite Solars being billed as the most powerful. If anything, Lunars are marginally more powerful than Solars are in combat (though there are disadvantages to building a Combat Monster Lunar).

Mind also that a powerful Dragon-Blooded is likely to have his power built around either political capability, wealth, or powerful artifacts; the Dragon-Blood's power is often invested in things that are not a part of him.

Edit: Oh, and mind that with the Players' Guide, you can play a gritty Exalted campaign... it's just that your characters wouldn't be Exalted.

Jerthanis
2007-10-22, 01:30 PM
I had a reply that got eaten by the dreaded forum monster, so I'll recreate it as best I can.

I really like Exalted, it's an amazingly versatile setting with a lot of unique flavor, and the mechanics encourage being the biggest badass you can imagine all the time. You're not only allowed to mix things up and keep things interesting whenever your character is taking an action, you're rewarded for it. A far cry from D&D's "I take a 5' step into flanking position and full attack" dryness of tactical combat. The mechanics are really confusing though, and there are plenty of sections which require rereading them several times in order to get them right. Still, I'd say it's actually a very easy game for a player to jump into and make a character in short order. New players can understand the basics very quickly, but the DM will need to understand things like how Combos work, and be on hand to explain it several times.

I'm also a longtime decrier of 2nd edition Exalted who is now starting to come around. Where before I saw Social combat as unnecessary and stupidly complicated, now I see a system of opposed rolls you might see in any other system, and with more reasonable mechanics than some. Before I thought the Tick system was unmanageable and easily broken beyond all reason... now I see it's a really cool system of risk/rewards with more dynamism than any static initiative system could hope to have. (Use a battle wheel, a seven sectioned pie where each character is in a space which represents a tick, resolve actions in a clockwise fashion, moving a character ahead according to his speed... it works phenomenally well) as long as you houserule a few things, like Jade weapon speed bonuses not stacking with Jade hearthstone bracers. (Grand Goremauls with speed 3, Short Daiklaives with speed 2!)

The setting is amazingly diverse, and you can play pretty much literally any type of game you can imagine with it. You can be wandering do-gooders who help out each town they come to in exchange for rewards ala D&D, or you can play heavily political games in the cities with their well detailed factions, and maneuvering or you can be pirates (or pirate hunters) in the west. You can play the game as Highlander, as X-men, as Harry Potter (my first Exalted game was about Dragonblooded children at the Heptagram), as any Samurai flick, as a Roman Empire Drama like Gladiator, as a war drama like 300, as Avatar: the last Airbender, or as ANYTHING you think is cool. If you don't like some aspects of the setting, DON'T USE them.

I'd say the two most useful books are the Solar book (required no matter what), and the Dragonblooded book. Sidereals are secretive enough that an average character would never interact with one, as long as you're not playing as Abyssals you can just use Solar Mechanics to represent them as antagonists. Lunars might also be a useful book depending on your inclination.

So I'd put the order of importance at Solars > Dragonblooded > Abyssals >= Lunars > Sidereals

Indon
2007-10-22, 02:04 PM
I guess I should note that my comments are regarding 1'st edition.

I've no desire to spend money collecting books for a new edition that are, at the most optimistic, a marginal mechanical upgrade. I don't particularly like the treatment I've heard Lunars got, either.

Dairun Cates
2007-10-22, 02:13 PM
I've only played d20 systems; how crazy are the mechanics? And, second, is getting all the various books worthwhile? Thanks bunches!

Well, to answer your first question, in our current campaign, I am playing a manipulative and charismatic pirate half-captain (One guy owns the ship, I own the crew. We argue) with the ability to dodge a 9000 mile long Whale thrown at a million miles an hour if I have too. On top of this, my character has managed to father a number of illegitimate children to almost start a Rival pirate crew when they all grow up. That was almost entirely done before he even exalted and was just a heroic mortal on a pirate ship. He has a Lunar "Girlfriend" that took out a God at age 12. Girlfriend is in quotes, because while my character has slowly been getting the hints that she likes him, he has trouble with intimacy with women that routinely send evil flocks of seagulls after him for so much as being near another attractive woman or a whorehouse (sadly where a good third of informants must be met). He's pissed off someone important on almost every continent, including Kings, Government Officials, Town guards, Rival Pirates, Rich Merchants, and a group of Pirates that are insane and have sworn a death threat after my character groped and left for dead one of their main officers. He used to have massive fortune and allies, but spent the fortune and became too high profile and wanted to keep the others after he exalted. Basically, after gaining awesome powers, he went on a bender of sin and excess and destroyed everything he had been working for his whole life. So, now, he's a tight-lipped accountant, a mostly rational individual who uses subtlety to get his jobs done, trusts the strength of his crew, and tries to stay away from excess. Well, he mostly tries.

And before you ask... Yes. He is one of the good guys.

As for it being worthwhile so far. We're mostly bad ass super powered pirates wandering the ocean for trouble, fame, fortune, artifacts, and immortality. On top of that, we have a racist medic who hasn't killed the demolitions expert out of a contractual obligation that will kill him if he breaks it, a training martial artist from a very powerful naval family being trained by Sidereal teachers, the other captain who is stealthy and searches for a way to live forever and best his dad, and an artifact hungry impatient tutor of the cult-owning medic with a short attention span and a harem.

It's excessive to an extreme, but it's quite fun.

....
2007-10-22, 02:13 PM
I have the Exalted 2nd Ed book and I'm really wanting to play it...

But its hard to wrap my head around the mechanics since none of my friends play it and none of us have ever seen it in action.

I really want to play or run it, though. I love the idea of stunts.

Tam_OConnor
2007-10-22, 02:55 PM
Thanks for all the feedback, folks. One more question, since I finally got enough sleep to be sane; How does Exalted combat feel in comparison to the Book of Nine Swords?

tainsouvra
2007-10-22, 03:22 PM
You really just need the core book and the books for anything you're getting really into--no need to collect them all. I have two books (Core and DB) and may never buy a third, in fact. If I do, it'll be for entertainment rather than any real need for it.

The system is easy to use once you understand it, and it's easy to understand when explained well, but the book is a little dense in the explanation department. Try it out once or twice, the experience might make it easier to understand than the reading does (I've been told, at least). It's pretty smooth in practice, though.

It's a very open-ended system where, because everyone is absurdly powerful anyway, it's not too big of a deal if there is a power imbalance. I'm currently playing a non-combat dragonblooded character who has been given less than half of the experience points of the rest of the solar party...and I still have plenty to do. It's an over-the-top game, but it's designed that way and thus works just fine when you let things go.

Exalted Combat, to put it simply, is meant to be epic. Feel free to parry the enormous meteor that the enemy sorcerer threw to level a city block, then rip through 30 of his minions in the 15 seconds it takes to reach him.

Brickwall
2007-10-22, 03:28 PM
Exalted is a wonderful gaming system. Don't let the old fogies fool you: 2nd edition is a very good system. 1st edition would be nothing without the load of supplements it has, and most of the people who play it have more than a few houserules. 2nd edition has one or two flaws, but it's totally standalone and can be run or played by anyone who can construct a paragraph-long plot or character description. Plus it has more Charms (powers).

Whichever edition you find first, get. You will fall in love with the setting, I pretty much guarantee. And you'll love the idea of stunts too: the cooler you make something sound, the more dice you get for it, plus you can regain your Awesome Fuel, or even get XP.

Exalted kicks ass. Get it, and do your best to find a group. But don't think you have to give up other systems to like it.

EDIT: In response to the latest question, it is more awesome in every possible way. Period.

Ulzgoroth
2007-10-22, 03:32 PM
Whichever edition you find first, get. You will fall in love with the setting, I pretty much guarantee. And you'll love the idea of stunts too: the cooler you make something sound, the more dice you get for it, plus you can regain your Awesome Fuel, or even get XP.
That is an extremely unsafe assumption, I think...unless you know something about the person in question? Because it's very much possible to hate the idea of stunts.

...I'll go now.

Reel On, Love
2007-10-22, 04:05 PM
Thanks for all the feedback, folks. One more question, since I finally got enough sleep to be sane; How does Exalted combat feel in comparison to the Book of Nine Swords?

Very different. Tome of Battle doesn't really feel that different from regular D&D--"I 5'-step, use Mountain Hammer, and attack. *roll* 15, plus 10 is 25. It hits? 1d8, 4, plus 2d6, 7, plus 8, that's 19 damage. Ignore DR."

Exalted combat is a lot more complex tactically (for example, you don't just open up with the strongest attack/combo you have), and generally a lot more descriptive because of the Stunting mechanic.

"I attack him, spending 3 motes and a Willpower to use Accuracy Without Distance. *roll* That's... six successes." is just a normal description. However, fancying it up gets you bonus dice (and, often more important, Willpower or motes of Essence back).

One bonus die is for describing your action.
"Shen draws his arrow back, channels Essence into it, then lets it fly right as his enemy is landing."

Two bonus dice are for describing your action and interacting with the environment somehow.
"Shen draws his arrow back, the pale morning sunlight hitting the golden corona around him and shattering into a halo; he looses his arrow from the center, Essence streaming behind it. (aside) I'm using Accuracy Without Distance."

Three dice are basically for whatever makes people at your table go "Dude, that was awesome!"

....
2007-10-22, 05:01 PM
That is an extremely unsafe assumption, I think...unless you know something about the person in question? Because it's very much possible to hate the idea of stunts.

...I'll go now.

I fail to see how anyone who likes PnP RPGs could not like stunts.

Unless you're some sort of human computer and you ike the total bog that is D&D combat:

"Five foot step. I attack....I hit for 12 damage."

"he swings...he misses."

"I cast lightning bolt *flips pages* Okay, make a reflex save...okay he takes 30 damage."

"Okay he dies."

"Okay we go left."

Kantolin
2007-10-22, 05:49 PM
I fail to see how anyone who likes PnP RPGs could not like stunts.

Because after awhile, it's 3 in the morning, the boss fight ended up dragging on for a really long time, and you get to witness wonderful things like:

"Ugh, I have to come up with something or there's no way I can hit him with my wound penalties. Uh, I attack... in a shining arc... the sun or osmething... unconquered sun... dawn caste... I dunno. In a cartwheel. That good enough?"

^_^

Either way, I actually like stunts ishly - I pretty much stunt with every attack in D&D anyway, so there being mechanics for it in exalted means very little.

Reel On, Love
2007-10-22, 06:19 PM
Because after awhile, it's 3 in the morning, the boss fight ended up dragging on for a really long time, and you get to witness wonderful things like:

"Ugh, I have to come up with something or there's no way I can hit him with my wound penalties. Uh, I attack... in a shining arc... the sun or osmething... unconquered sun... dawn caste... I dunno. In a cartwheel. That good enough?"

^_^

Actually, that's not really a problem: one- and two-die stunts are very easy to make. For example, "I feint left, then arc a cut at his right side" is a one-die stunt. "I push off the ground and dive forward, channeling the force into a thrust" is a two-die stunt, since it describes your action and involves the environment. Something like "I parry his cut, using the enormous power behind his blade to help flip myself behind him; my white cloak turned scarlet by blood and sunset, I kick off a tree with enough force to make it fall, and the power of the Unconquered Sun streams around and under my blade, furrowing the ground, as I thrust for his vitals" is generally an attempt at a three-die stunt, or just someone being descriptive with a two-die stunt. Three-die stunts don't generally happen every single turn, and that extra die isn't going to make the difference between life or death much if at all.

Kantolin
2007-10-22, 06:23 PM
Well yes, that works - for the first four hours.

Eventually, people get worn out. The game itself suggests that, if you're too tired/weary/irritated/uncreative too come up with a stunt, don't try to force one - but the fact that you get a mechanical bonus gives you great incentive to do so.

After awhile, especially when you've had a rough long day at work, people get worn out and stop being as creative. I see this with frequency with my exalted group...

Ravyn
2007-10-22, 06:36 PM
Yeah, granted, but sometimes it's 3 am and they're just knocking off one epic stunt after another. (I love my group.)

Brickwall would call me one of those "1E fogies" you should try to disregard, but it's not quite true; I play 1.5. I dislike the overall system-mechanics of 2E (Insert rant decrying Appearance-based social Soak and the social combat mechanics in general, griping about the fact that Knowing the Soul's Price really does belong in Socialize, and muttering about some of the Stupid Solar Tricks that 2E allows for, repetition of the complaint that Abyssal blood chains and the Sids' old Brawl pinnacle Easily Accepted Proposition Stance should not be generally available martial arts Charms. And don't get me started on Dominatrix Fu.). I do, however, realize that it has a few values--the fluff is pretty, Motivations make sense, they've only improved the Lunars, and the little splats, particularly the directions and two thirds of the Books of Sorcery (the Black and White Treatise has pretty fluff, but is pointless if you've already got Savant and Sorcerer and the Book of Bone and Ebony--but I highly recommend both Wonders of the Lost Age and Oadenol's Codex even for the 1E fogey who already has everything) make excellent supplements. In sum, I'd say play 1E (cheap at your friendly neighborhood source of used books!), steal liberally from 2E, and enjoy the best of both worlds.

And if you need advice, custom artifacts, or what-have-you... pm me. I like helping new STs get ahead.

Reel On, Love
2007-10-22, 07:40 PM
Well yes, that works - for the first four hours.

Eventually, people get worn out. The game itself suggests that, if you're too tired/weary/irritated/uncreative too come up with a stunt, don't try to force one - but the fact that you get a mechanical bonus gives you great incentive to do so.

After awhile, especially when you've had a rough long day at work, people get worn out and stop being as creative. I see this with frequency with my exalted group...

If you're so tired you can't get as creative as "my anima flares gold as I launch a roundhouse kick at his face" or even "I attack him with a strong overhead cut"., how is everyone not passing out at the table? Two-die stunts are intentionally easy; one-die stunts are easy enough that you almost have to work to *avoid* them. That's intentional.


As for 1E vs. 2E--2E made some much-needed improvements. Social combat, by and large, works fine (as long as you remember that people aren't likely to spend Willpower unless their Intimacies are threatened, and what spending that Willpower represents). Tick combat is vastly better than what 1E had goin' on. Lunars actually work, the Sidereals book is still by Rebecca Borgstrom so it's going to be great, and 1E has at least as many stupid tricks and mechanical problems as 2E.

Tengu
2007-10-23, 01:31 AM
I think your ST is a bit too liberal, and literal in the use of stunts - a one-liner is not a one-die stunt (unless it's a very cool one-liner), it's a prerequesite of combat being interesting.

Unless I'm just too stingy in this regard. Most of my players love to make long attack descriptions, and we don't even play a system that uses stunts or similar mechanics.

Jannex
2007-10-23, 02:02 AM
All my comments will concern Exalted 1E, not because I have any particular hatred for 2E, but simply because I haven't really played or read it yet.

One of the things I've always particularly liked about Exalted (and about White Wolf games in general) is how intuitive the mechanics are. Attribute + Ability, roll that many dice, count the number of dice that come up 7 or above. Combat is a lot more flexible as well--you're not stuck to a battle-mat, unable to move more than 5' or lose effectiveness. This isn't miniatures combat. Your character can move around the battlefield, performing all manner of acrobatics, and generally be awesome.

I personally really enjoy the Exalted setting, but if someone has a deep-seated loathing for all things anime, he may not be very fond of it. As far as books, the only thing you need for a Solars game is the corebook. If you want to use a different type of Exalt, you'll need the main book for that type as well. The various supplements, like castebooks, setting books, etc. are useful and fun, containing more setting/flavor details and usually additional powers and equipment, but are not absolutely necessary to play.

In terms of play, the main difference I've found between Exalted and D&D is that D&D is a lot more limiting. The rules are rather more restrictive, and delineate very specific ways in which the characters can interact with their environment. In Exalted, you've got more room to maneuver. An Exalted character can do (or at least attempt) pretty much anything his player can imagine, without the rules having to contort to accomodate the idea.

Also, I'm with Tengu on the strictness of stunts. I don't think players are intended to stunt every round of combat; stunts are described as something intrinsically above and beyond the call of duty, so to speak; even a one-die stunt should be at least a little bit impressive and cool.

Kantolin
2007-10-23, 02:06 AM
If you're so tired you can't get as creative as "my anima flares gold as I launch a roundhouse kick at his face" or even "I attack him with a strong overhead cut"., how is everyone not passing out at the table?

The trouble comes when you, after half a millisecond, have used up all of the extremely basic ones. The books suggest that "I bring my sword up in a glimmering arc at my foe", when repeated twenty times, becomes "I hit it".

Man, are you never worn out in a game? :P My group is extremely creative and entertaining, but I could see how a stunt mechanic would get irksome with people forcing it after awhile - I have to point out to my group occasionally that if you have to absolutely force it, please don't do it.

Tengu
2007-10-23, 02:10 AM
if someone has a deep-seated loathing for all things anime, he may not be very fond of it.

On a slightly offtopic note - being such a person long time ago (I was young and stupid), I must say that people like that miss a lot of good works of fiction.

Jerthanis
2007-10-23, 03:41 AM
(Insert rant decrying Appearance-based social Soak and the social combat mechanics in general...).

(Insert complaint about Appearance doing nothing at all in 1st Ed exalted for non-Lunars, and about the results of successful or failing social rolls being almost as poorly defined as D&D) Seriously, it's a problem when consistently the most attractive members of a circle are those who are socially inept for character reasons. A Solar gets so many points in even their tertiary priority that if you want to be bad at lying, or not a natural leader, you're going to be the most gorgeous person in several thousand miles. However, when making a social beast, you might only bother with two dots in appearance, as it doesn't really do anything except give you situational modifiers you don't need thanks to your raw skill and charms. In 2nd edition, appearance is a legitimate stat worth putting points in for any character. It results in odd things, like the obsessively vain appearance 5 character being pretty much impervious to intimidation or insults, but still...

I have to agree, however, that the number of great supplements available for 1st edition, and the possible compatibility of the new, good rules to be adapted with little effort to the old system makes it hard to say for certain that 2nd Ed is the better system... It's certainly not hard to make 1st edition everything 2nd is and more... but I still feel like they made 2nd edition like they knew what they were doing from the start, and made a lot of aspects more clear. If getting into the game for the first time, 2nd is great IMHO... but it's not even nearly necessary to upgrade from 1st ed if you already were using it.


If you're so tired you can't get as creative as "my anima flares gold as I launch a roundhouse kick at his face" or even "I attack him with a strong overhead cut"., how is everyone not passing out at the table? Two-die stunts are intentionally easy; one-die stunts are easy enough that you almost have to work to *avoid* them. That's intentional.


I'd say this is a little more generous than I'd ever be, if for no other reason than the fact that Dragonblooded would almost literally never run out of essence if that were the case. Dragonblooded charms are only 1-4 motes generally, and if each one die stunt is getting one mote back, and any one line description of an action is a one die stunt, they can boost every single action with their appropriate charms without worrying at all about mote expenditure. Solars are way less efficient in terms of motes, but even they would just have to add a couple double backflips in each combat to almost double their longevity.

What I mostly like about stunts is that you don't generally open with them, because there's no real benefit to them... one extra die when you're rolling 14 isn't at all significant... but when you're run ragged and you've suffered some wound penalties and you're running out of essence, suddenly doves take flight and your heroism becomes the stuff of legend. Dramatic turnarounds through epic effort and stylish stunts are more amazing than when people face each other down and immediately start running up walls and dancing around like idiots. It's a system where as the combat gets longer, the incentive to stay engaged in the moment gets more and more attractive.

Perhaps others see this as forcing it, I see it as making drama in combat felt in a very visceral way by the players as well. Unfortunately, my players are really bad at stunting. I run most of our exalted games, and even when they've got wound penalties and are running low on motes of essence I have to remind them of stunts every time their turns roll around. Most of my players act like they're still in D&D, going, "I'm going to flurry for four attacks, I'll spend 6 motes on the 1st melee excellency to make the second, third and fourth attacks all at the same bonus as my first" (just so they don't have to count out how many dice to roll on any individual attack) and leave it at that.

(I wish I had more good Exalted players)

Ulzgoroth
2007-10-23, 06:01 AM
I fail to see how anyone who likes PnP RPGs could not like stunts.

Unless you're some sort of human computer and you ike the total bog that is D&D combat:
I would dare say you also can't imagine how someone could consider 'cinematic' a derogatory term?

I've got nothing against colorful description of actions. I have a great deal against colorful description of actions making those actions more effective. And if my impression that describing idiotically impractical but 'cool-sounding' actions is encouraged is correct...:smallyuk:...rabid hatred more or less covers it.

I'm obviously not in Exalted's target market though.

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2007-10-23, 02:50 PM
I've only played a little 1st ed, and I'm currently playing a 2e campaign. I have to say I have much love for 2e. I think the combat tick system is simply brilliant. The social combat was a bit confusing at first, but we're getting the hang of it (well enough to cause severe guilt in an innocent man. Oops.)

Indon
2007-10-23, 03:14 PM
Actually, that's not really a problem: one- and two-die stunts are very easy to make. For example, "I feint left, then arc a cut at his right side" is a one-die stunt. "I push off the ground and dive forward, channeling the force into a thrust" is a two-die stunt, since it describes your action and involves the environment. Something like "I parry his cut, using the enormous power behind his blade to help flip myself behind him; my white cloak turned scarlet by blood and sunset, I kick off a tree with enough force to make it fall, and the power of the Unconquered Sun streams around and under my blade, furrowing the ground, as I thrust for his vitals" is generally an attempt at a three-die stunt, or just someone being descriptive with a two-die stunt. Three-die stunts don't generally happen every single turn, and that extra die isn't going to make the difference between life or death much if at all.

I tell you what, I am a complete miser for stunt dice compared to you. I'd probably grant 0,0, and 1 die respectively for each of those stunts.

I blame my players; they're creative enough that they'd be able to at least 2-die stunt pretty much everything they do in combat, and most actions out of combat, too. They describe their actions like that without expecting stunt dice; I can only imagine what ridiculous, combat-delaying awesomeness would result if I just gave them more stuff.

Now, what I'm lenient about with my stunts is doing the impossible. If my player's fighting a manifested rogue god in a ruin and says something to the effect of, "I kick down a nearby pillar on top of it!" That, in my view, is a stunt. I'd have it deal damage just like a normal attack, and then on top of it grant stunt dice or an additional effect.

I guess I could say I encourage my players to break the rules with their stunts, rather than to just gain mechanical effectiveness from it.