PF - Spheres Only Penguin Necromancer

[unseenmage]

GM is starting up a resource scarce, Spheres only, arctic environment game.
I'm working up an Awakened Penguin necromancer but I have zero experience with Spheres of Power.

The plan is to make full use of the Frostfallen undead template. That's all I have so far. Game is starting at 3rd level. Anything PF, Dreamscarred, and Spheres allowed. Other 3rd party with permission.

Advice on build and progression more than welcome, as well as what to bring to minimize the lack of magic marts and civilization.

EDIT
Character is currently a gestalt PF Wizard // Spheres Cleric necromancer with the warp sphere.

[EldritchWeaver]

GM is starting up a resource scarce, Spheres only, arctic environment game. I'm working up an Awakened Penguin necromancer but I have zero experience with Spheres of Power. The plan is to make full use of the Frostfallen undead template. That's all I have so far. Game is starting at 3rd level. Anything PF, Dreamscarred, and Spheres allowed. Other 3rd party with permission. Advice on build and progression more than welcome, as well as what to bring to minimize the lack of magic marts and civilization.


I'm not that familiar with undead minionmancy in general, so below is some general advice, where you can start looking for more details.

First of, are you using USoP already? The original material has been given some upgrades/updates/nerfs and is considered to be the new baseline. And at least in the PDF there is no direct mention of that type of undead, so I think you need to use Expanded Necromancy to get access to this type. If that isn't possible, then the Greater Undead advanced talent should work, but it needs GM permission and has as prereq caster level 5. For your level, that is simply impossible to qualify for - even incanter with Death specialization, which grants a +1 to CL, would need a character level of 4 (so at incanter dip and whatever other class with full Death CL, since CL stacks). There is in theory the alternative to use rituals, which are basically Vancian spells, but animate dead does require a CL of 6 and a CAM of +3 or greater. But unlike talent prereqs, you can "cheat" the death CL easier, since temporary CL increases work here. And there are boons which can boost the CL +2, so with the incanter Death specialization you can execute such a ritual. Since the undead are permanent, I think just having the Spell Dabbler feat to make is easier and cheaper to cast the ritual once per day is enough. Also, you need to choose two general drawbacks to get a boon (depending on your wishes).

Secondly, do you have a preference class-wise? Incanter is a wizard-y class overall, with options to customize it a bit. Soul Weavers have some class features interacting with undead, which might be fun to use. There is also a 3rd party class called Pale Philosopher, not sure if it is released and no comment on quality, since I haven't read it (but there are comments in the playtest thread here in the forum). There are a number of archetypes which have at least in Death full CL, so they might be of interest to you as well. Personally, depending on the length of the campaign, I might just stick with the incanter and possible retrain. In regards to talents, I would suggest to use Destruction with drawbacks to use the negative energy blast type group, so you have some always on damage option. Then you can check out the Death sphere. I would possible drawback ghost strike out, if you aren't looking into damage dealing. Instead I would look into going reanimate-enhancing options. There are too many to recommend anything, without knowing what you want out of the character. So just look there for ideas.

[unseenmage]

I'm not that familiar with undead minionmancy in general, so below is some general advice, where you can start looking for more details.

...

*gud stuff*

The only real goal for the character is to be able to make use of this PF necromancy resource (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514107-PF-Lists-of-Undead-Creation-and-Creatable-Undead&p=21669408#post21669408) I compiled way back when.

[EldritchWeaver]

I confirmed with the authors that Frostfallen is not an option for Expanded Necromancy due to some theorycrafting leading to some exploit. That will possible to change at some point since an author wants to close the gap between spheres and PF, but that will be too late for your game. I'm afraid that currently spheres is less versatile for this kind of minionmancy. Either you take the ritual loophole or instead could try Conjuration instead. Get a companion with the undead creature (type) talent (twice more likely). Flavor summoning as breaking out of the earth or something like that. I don't think there is a class or archetype (outside spheres summoner) dealing with Conjuration directly and the sphere summoner might not be necessarily the best option. I would actually consider incanter, maybe still using Death specialization, since Conjuration specialization "only" improves the CL for your intended character. Split the talents between Death and Conjuration so you can do some shorter undead reanimation.

[unseenmage]

Okay, so I got to actually play the necropenguin today.

The other player brought a crowd control character to the virtual table.
Also a penguin.

There was shenaniganery (the fun kind) and both of us being, surprise, not enough of a party.

At the end we re-specced to gestalt half spheres//half PF.
I'm a Wiz necromancer//Spheres ice Elementalist with a pinch of Spheres necromancer.
We are still level 3.

There was slavery and corpse collecting and very little of us doing what we eventually want our characters to do.

Still it was all very fun. First non wasted day of this self isolation tbh.

[unseenmage]

Game and characters got rejiggered a bit but it's still a necro penguin at heart.

Penguin itself was too weak to keep up so we homebrewed up a pen-pen race with cold adaptation, slightly different stats, and an actual land speed.

My character was reworked into a PF Wiz // Spheres Cleric with necromancy as a focus and a Warp Sphere utility and combat focus.

The other player's penguin is a PF Rogue // Spheres Druid IIRC. They're dabbling in dreamscapes.


For now I'm curious if there are any PF templates that allow one to enhance or improve undead?

[unseenmage]

While prepping statistics blocks for next level when I'll finally get permanent undead creation we stumbled on an infinite exploit.

The Isitoq (https://aonprd.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Isitoq) is an intelligent undead created, and controlled, with Animate Dead.

Assuming that Expanded Necromancy lets you reanimate an isitoq and you're playing with advanced talents, at CL 6 you could Corpse Forge one of your permanent isitoqs so that it has 12 HD. Give it Basic Magic Training (Death sphere) at HD 1, Advanced Magic Training at HD 3, Corpse Manipulation/Expanded Necromancy/Lingering Necromancy at HD 3/5/7 (any order), Corpse Forge at HD 9, and Permanent Undead at HD 11. The isitoq can now create permanent isitoqs and Corpse Forge them up to 12 HD, which can then do the same.
Thanks for the synopsis iceifur

And if that first isitoq feat cant be replaced/retrained that only delays the whole mess by one level.

So we're banning Advanced Magic Training as it gives full CL to anyone with a feat slot in a system that assumes it costs way more than one feat slot to get full CL.

[EldritchWeaver]

AMT only gives 1/2 CL for levels which do not progress otherwise CL. Also, Expanded Necromancy does only support the listed undead. Isitoqs are not part of it and possibly require Greater Undead.

That being said, the issue isn't with Isitoqs (since other intelligent undead exist) or AMT (since an intelligent undead could also level up as incanter), it is that it was forgotten to close the loophole that you can have cohorts which can use cohort producing abilities. In general, the intention in spheres is that doing so is not permissible. So instead banning AMT, ban cohort creating for cohorts. Do note that advanced talents are GM permission-only for reasons, including that they can break the game, which is a difference to the rest of the system. In other words, if there are problems, it is likely due to their use.

[unseenmage]

After an NPC dies of ghoul fever it wont rise as a ghoul until the next midnight.

After they die but before they become a ghoul I use Corpse Manipulation to increase the size of their corpse by one step.

Do I get a larger ghoul or does the ghoulification reset the creature to just big standard ghoul stats?


I'm pretty sure if ghoul was a template it'd get bigger since templating is additive rather than replacitory.
Since it's not a template I think the state of becoming a ghoul just changes the corpse into a ghoul as it appears in its monster entry.

So bigger vampires could be a maybe while bigger wights and ghouls are probably a no-go.

[EldritchWeaver]

Considering the new feat in Blood & Portents (awaiting layout and release for the next month AFAIK) which allows raising more powerful isotoq (and also frostfallen :smallwink:) has special language for that, I agree that you get standard ghouls. Maybe Corpse Forge would help?