What, exactly, IS a Waveblade?

[Segev]

A waveblade (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-descriptions/waveblade/) is essentially an exotic weapon that has the stats of a scimitar, is a light, monk, and close weapon, and gets a bonus against being disarmed.

It's described as having a "double-curved blade" and being "hiltless" with a "knuckle guard." Of these, I have an inkling of what a knuckle guard might be in this context, but I'm not sure.

What does "double-curved blade" actually mean, in terms of how the blade is shaped, and how on earth do you have a "hiltless" weapon? Google searching has failed to turn up anything that seems like it's what this might be talking about. Does anybody know what this actually looks like or what this weapon is supposed to be?

[Rynjin]

Sounds like it's basically a cutlass hilt with kris-like blade.

Like this hilt:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cmWKLIXqhUc/TgDgMuqbNCI/AAAAAAAACII/yem7O428uq4/s320/WeaponCollector+trench+sword+knuckle+duster+brass+ knuckles+knife+WW1+WW2+cutlass+guard+homemade.JPG

With this blade:

https://www.grindworx.com/imgs/knives/fixed-blade-knives-all/50-and-up/Grindworx-Kriss-Dagger-Rosewood-Damascus-BP-21580-jr-large.jpg

[MaxiDuRaritry]

No hilt? Did they mean no crossguard? Or maybe you're supposed to hold a dulled portion of the blade at one end? Or maybe it's shaped like a bat'leth with a wavy blade or something?

The only way you can have a knife or sword without a hilt is if it's like a stone-age flint knife, where it's all one blade and you hold one end dulled for the purpose, which seriously lowers its efficacy, since purpose-made hilts increase leverage of cuts significantly, and have other benefits, with no drawbacks at all.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Maybe it's some kind of double-blade dagger, with a curved blade out each end and a knuckle guard in the middle? Like some kind of mall ninja knife?

[Segev]

Hm. So nobody knows what "hiltless" means any better than I do. Drat. My first thought was "what, it's a blade all the way down? How does that work?" Meaning no cross-guard might make sense, but that's a weird way to express that.

"Double-curved" is another one I have trouble with. The first one way, then the other curve in the image might be what it means.

So maybe it's like a kunai with a snakey-shape to it? No handle, just the ring to put your finger through, and a wavy blade instead of a straight one? Not sure why that'd get so high a critical range, though.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Might be that it's just one flat plane of metal with a wavy edge. No specialized hilt, but the back of the blade is blunted with four holes in it to slide one's fingers through to keep from slipping, kind of like the spacing on brass knuckles? I mean, it's still a hilt, but that might be what they meant?

[GrayDeath]

Well, this of course, its even trademarked: http://waveblade.dripdev.com/product/waveblade/


That aside, I see it as effectively brass Knuckles which have a curved blade on each side of the hand (Double curved blasde instead of double-curved blade, ya know?9, so similar to a dual katar.

[Saint-Just]

Sounds like Bichuwa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bichuwa)

Double-curved blade (not simply wavy but exactly two curves)
A really unusual hilt with a knuckle guard
Called "scorpion blade" or "scorpion dagger"

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I believe this (https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co123464/double-bladed-dagger-dagger-weapon) was the intended image they were going for.

[Asmotherion]

Not to be confused with Bladeweave (http://dnd.arkalseif.info/spells/complete-adventurer--54/bladeweave--403/index.html), a 2nd level illusion spell for Gishes! :smallwink:

If you've wached Naruto, you're probably familiar with Asuma's Chakra Blades? That's a close depiction of what I imagine it could be:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0013/8238/3682/products/asuma-chakra-kunai-11-scale-sliver-naruto-ninja-gears-xplayer-shop-knife-weapon-cold_137_620x.jpg?v=1577376739

Add to that curves similar to Fable's Solus Greatsword, and you have a visual.

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/5a5d994e-8ab3-4c8d-83ae-b8ab6d14a353/d6utxw6-c81fd98f-47bd-4c43-b845-29c8dabe2d0a.png/v1/fill/w_1024,h_576,q_80,strp/fable_the_lost_chapters___solus_greatsword_by_revo nlieke_d6utxw6-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI 1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNh NWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMT g4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7 ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NTc2IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvNWE1ZDk5NG UtOGFiMy00YzhkLTgzYWUtYjhhYjZkMTRhMzUzXC9kNnV0eHc2 LWM4MWZkOThmLTQ3YmQtNGM0My1iODQ1LTI5YzhkYWJlMmQwYS 5wbmciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9MTAyNCJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46 c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.6sgciM0K0WA86 JT2wMccx_fho1JTPOndV1HjJYXIPmQ
PS: Cheers everyone, forum is back!!! :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Segev]

Other than the "double curve" missing, the ones from Naruto seem like the best image of a "hiltless" weapon with a knuckle-guard.

I kind-of wonder what the writer was even picturing. It's weird that there's no further context. Mechanically, a Wave Blade is a scimitar that you have to get exotic weapon proficiency for, but get it as a light weapon in return. (Or be an unchained monk.)

[Blackhawk748]

Sounds like Bichuwa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bichuwa)

Double-curved blade (not simply wavy but exactly two curves)
A really unusual hilt with a knuckle guard
Called "scorpion blade" or "scorpion dagger"


This seems to be right to me. The "it has no hilt" thing is just weird cuz... well it literally has to have a hilt, no matter what it looks like, if it has knuckle guards.

Im going with they meant no Crossguard

[StreamOfTheSky]

Huh, PF actually made a weapon with that name?

I remember making up said name years ago for a bastard sword based off Ginchiyo Tachibana's awesome looking weapon:

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/1bdc0e5c-fe0f-4d90-89e2-78ffa8c4bad1/d7sq6gm-e1740fb0-fc82-4cbf-8a53-2a02cf765c3b.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJ IUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQz NzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZT BkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6 W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzFiZGMwZTVjLWZlMGYtNGQ5MC04OW UyLTc4ZmZhOGM0YmFkMVwvZDdzcTZnbS1lMTc0MGZiMC1mYzgy LTRjYmYtOGE1My0yYTAyY2Y3NjVjM2IucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIj pbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.HcClt6AZ OqqkRd8sXLethuEIaVBru_PW00kkL9oE-Go

[AlanBruce]

A waveblade is essentially an exotic weapon that has the stats of a scimitar, is a light, monk, and close weapon, and gets a bonus against being disarmed.

At a quick glance, this reminds of Bloodborne's Blade of Mercy:


https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6f/67/53/6f6753d1f331395ab1b06a1759dc1b5b.jpg

The image on the far left is the actual blade. The middle and right images are the blade when it transforms, separating into two blades that behave very much like what you described, down to their move set.

[Luccan]

Something impractical and elvish, probably.

[Psyren]

This is the actual picture of it from the book if that helps:

https://i.imgur.com/rpO3Cio.png

No idea if that is called something else IRL; a couple of the other pictures here seem close to what they had in mind, but I'm definitely not an exotic weapons expert.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

This is the actual picture of it from the book if that helps:

https://i.imgur.com/rpO3Cio.png

No idea if that is called something else IRL; a couple of the other pictures here seem close to what they had in mind, but I'm definitely not an exotic weapons expert.Err, it's supposed to NOT have a hilt. What do they think that hilt-shaped hilt is?

[Psyren]

Err, it's supposed to NOT have a hilt. What do they think that hilt-shaped hilt is?

I suspect that's what they were referring to as the "knuckle guard" - but whether that should've been more accurately described as a hilt, and the authors didn't know what they were talking about, I can't say; my knowledge of the historical weapons that RPGs draw from would starve a flea :smalltongue:

Perhaps the Real-World Weapons thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?589405-Got-a-Real-World-Weapon-Armour-or-Tactics-Question-Mk-XXVIII) and its cadre of experts would know more about this thing's inspiration?

[DwarvenWarCorgi]

This seems to be right to me. The "it has no hilt" thing is just weird cuz... well it literally has to have a hilt, no matter what it looks like, if it has knuckle guards.

Im going with they meant no Crossguard

The bichua[sp] has 2 blades that each have a single curve, not 1 blade with a double curve. And it has a grip.

By definition a hilt encompasses the guard, grip and pommel of a bladed weapon, so idk how you can have a blade without one, unless as people said, you put your fingers through part of the blade itself.

[DwarvenWarCorgi]

By definition a hilt encompasses the guard, handle and pommel of a bladed weapon. The pic psyren posted clearly shows a weapon with a guard and a handle. The blade also only has one curve. Game dev or illustrator had no idea what they were talking about.

For reference the pic of the Solus greatsword shows a blade with 3 curves.

I watch too much "Forged in Fire."

[Drejzer]

By definition a hilt encompasses the guard, handle and pommel of a bladed weapon. The pic psyren posted clearly shows a weapon with a guard and a handle. The blade also only has one curve. Game dev or illustrator had no idea what they were talking about.

For reference the pic of the Solus greatsword shows a blade with 3 curves.

I watch too much "Forged in Fire."

I recently found this, and boy is it a nice show.
Some things they make are beautiful, and sometimes it is almost a comedy.


On the topic... the description is confusing at best,
And the picture doesn't help at all.

I must agree either the person who wrote that or the illustrator had no idea
(my bet is on the illustrator getting the description and trying to find some reference)

Also: Nice to see the forums back up
(now if only wotc archive of dnd3.5 web enhancements and other material was back up as well...)

[Segev]

Thanks for the official picture. It at least shows me that the writer, editor, or illustrator didn’t quite know what was meant, either!

[Thealtruistorc]

The poorly-drawn image in Adventurer's Armory 2 conceals the fact that the Waveblade is based on an Indian Bichuwa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bichuwa), a unique double-curved dagger with a distinctive hilt construction.

[Segev]

The poorly-drawn image in Adventurer's Armory 2 conceals the fact that the Waveblade is based on an Indian Bichuwa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bichuwa), a unique double-curved dagger with a distinctive hilt construction.

The Bichua has been brought up before, and is not a bad guess, but in what do you base the certainty with which you say the wave blade was based in it? Such certainty implies some deeper source of knowledge.

[Psyren]

The Bichua has been brought up before, and is not a bad guess, but in what do you base the certainty with which you say the wave blade was based in it? Such certainty implies some deeper source of knowledge.

This wasn't directed at me but I did some more digging, and the Bichwa is definitively the inspiration. Here is the 3.5 entry from Pathfinder Campaign Setting, where Bich'hwa is the name used in-game (https://www.aonprd.com/EquipmentWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Bich%27hwa) and "waveblade" and "scorpion's sting" are given as aliases.

[Segev]

This wasn't directed at me but I did some more digging, and the Bichwa is definitively the inspiration. Here is the 3.5 entry from Pathfinder Campaign Setting, where Bich'hwa is the name used in-game (https://www.aonprd.com/EquipmentWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Bich%27hwa) and "waveblade" and "scorpion's sting" are given as aliases.

Ah, good to know! It's a strange-looking weapon, not just for the double-curve (which I imagine makes it harder to get either the slashing or the stabbing to work with), but because it looks like the knuckle-guard is LIKE a classic basket, but protects out to the side rather than in "front" of the blade, which I haven't seen elsewhere. Still, now I know what it looks like. They do make good dual-wielding weapons.