Is this thing on? I suppose let’s start with Unearthed Arcana?

[Evaar]

So during the downtime, this came out:

https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/UA2020_02_06_Subclasses2.pdf

Seems like as good a place as any to restart discussion.

[SpanielBear]

Hey, it’s back!

I’m in DM duty in a few, but just some immediate thoughts:

Bard: I like the flavour. The mote... ahem, *note*of possibility feels a bit too unfocused though, like its trying to do everything. I love the idea of making inanimate objects dance though.

Cleric: Whilst I will play a cleric of Athena on the slightest excuse, the class doesn’t enthuse somehow. Maybe I need to read it again, but it really failed to grab. It’s a nice thought to bring back a buffing cleric though.

Sorcerer: I really like this. Mordrons are great, I like the flavour and the idea behind it.

More actual analysis later when I have time. Good to see this place again!

[DeTess]

I haven't gone in too deep yet (I mean, without this forum, how was I supposed to know there was anew unearthed arcana XD), but I really like the flavor on the bard and sorcerer. On all three actually :P. The sorcerer in particular would fit really well in my current homebrew campaign flavor-wise (I use a homebrew supplement that adds mechs and also a number of other mechanus themed subclasses, including a warlock patron). Regarding the Bard, I've actually toyed with a character concept of a bard searching for such a song, and the campaign I currently play in seems to sue some of that 'song of creation' flavor as well in interesting ways.

[Kane0]

I didnt really find any of it earthshattering. Not terrible but certainly not my top picks for inclusion in a book.

[Millstone85]

I continue to worry about how the sorcerer and the warlock seem to compete for subclass themes.

With the introduction of the Clockwork Soul, we might never get the Hierarch Modron or the Inevitable as an otherwordly patron, just like Fey Ancestry and Infernal Legacy aren't sorcerous origins (but Aberrant Mind was in UA, so maybe there is hope).

[jaappleton]

Oooooh, its so good to be back! I've missed you all! GROUP HUG!


....Alright, now let's eviscerate this article, shall we? :smalltongue:

I don't hate it. I also can't find anything to cheese, which means it SUCKS.

Creation Bard essentially gets a super Spiritual Weapon, since its also part Telekinesis in allowing you to move existing objects. I think the Capstone here honestly is not very good at all, but Note of Potential isn't bad. A very solid B-.

Unity Domain! Man, if you were on Twitter when this leaked and was called Love Domain, you saw some RAGE. But I don't discuss that, that's another deal. For Unity itself... Solid concept. I like it. A very supportive style, I like the idea of it. Mechanics are fine, but nothing blows me away. I can certainly see a party really welcoming this style cleric into their party. It works, but doesn't excite me.


Clockwork Soul. Again, if you saw the brief leak, this also got a little bit of a rework. It got buffed pretty much across the board. I certainly don't hate it. It gets a VERY good bonus spell list, these are all incredibly nice. Restore Balance seems 'meh' to me initially, but I feel it could save someones bacon at least once per session.

Bulwark of Law.... I don't like this keying off Sorcery Points. I love the effect, this magical ward protecting you, but Sorcery Points are already to integral to Metamagic. I'd much rather see this key off "Once per short rest, gain a protective ward equal to X times your CHA mod", and its usable more often as you level up.

Trance of Order is... Pretty damn cool. I'm OK with this higher-level ability keying off Sorcery Points, so long as the previous Bulwark of Law is changed to not requiring them. Capstone is pretty cool.

EDIT:

This article now means every Subclass has two UAs, with the exception of two:

Druid and Ranger.

[Luccan]

My only feelings on this:

As always, if they plan to implement the subclass spells for sorcerer, they need to go back and do it for every subclass so far. Don't pull another "PHB Rangers get less, yet somehow we think it's equal".

The Creation Bard's first ability doesn't really create anything. It's essentially an illusion that provides buffs (since it's indestructible and you can't even touch it). I would like them to be tangible, probably with HP (they can increase the buffs to balance that if need be).

[jaappleton]

My only feelings on this:

As always, if they plan to implement the subclass spells for sorcerer, they need to go back and do it for every subclass so far. Don't pull another "PHB Rangers get less, yet somehow we think it's equal".



I think the best to hope for would be adding them in via a final version of the Variant Class Options UA. You'll never see an official errats which implements them, at best its going to be something optional.

[Luccan]

I think the best to hope for would be adding them in via a final version of the Variant Class Options UA. You'll never see an official errats which implements them, at best its going to be something optional.

I just feel bad for the AL players. They're never going to benefit from WotC learning how people actually play 5e.

[Amechra]

OK, so the Bard is... probably good? I dunno - I have an irrational distaste for stuff that animates/creates items, so my eyes slid off most of the features. Note of Potential is kinda cool, I guess?

The Cleric... my main issue is that the bond only lasts for one hour. I'm... amused that the final upgrade makes it last across planar distances but doesn't extend the duration by even a second. I like it quite a bit otherwise.

The Sorcerer... I agree with the people that think that they should stop adding automatic spells known to the Sorcerer without errataing all the of the existing subclasses. Restore Balance is... interesting, at the very least. Bulwark of Law feels really chaotic for a "lawful" feature, but it definitely looks like a solid defensive feature.

Trance of Order, on the other hand, is hilariously good.

[HiveStriker]

So during the downtime, this came out:

https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/UA2020_02_06_Subclasses2.pdf

Seems like as good a place as any to restart discussion.
Hi all! Thanks Evaar for sharing the info.

Contrarily to the works of the last months, I'm pleasantly surprised by this UA.
The Bard's alternate BI is not necessarily as compelling as others mechanically but it's fair enough.
Cleric's 17th level is a bit too powerful to my taste, then again it's 17th level anyways.

Overall, nothing significant to criticize balance-wise, interesting ideas and mechanics are usually coherent with the fluff.
Loving it!

[Burley]

So, I'm about to start a game with a Creation Bard, but I'm re-flavoring it, pretty much entirely, to just be about Inspiring my party into greater acts of heroism, to make the story more interesting for me to tell back at the tavern.

[Jophiel]

Setting aside the Twitter debate, I wish they would have found a way to rename (Charm, Attraction, Enchantment, something) or fluff the Love Domain while keeping its spell choices. The additional spells seemed to make for a cool subclass whereas the Unity version feels much more generic to me.

Yes, I saved a copy of the original and can play it in a game that allows homebrew style material but I assume the original concept will be officially buried forever.

[Amechra]

Setting aside the Twitter debate, I wish they would have found a way to rename (Charm, Attraction, Enchantment, something) or fluff the Love Domain while keeping its spell choices. The additional spells seemed to make for a cool subclass whereas the Unity version feels much more generic to me.

Yes, I saved a copy of the original and can play it in a game that allows homebrew style material but I assume the original concept will be officially buried forever.

What was the original spell list, if I may ask?

[Jophiel]

What was the original spell list, if I may ask?
Changes were:
Charm Person for Shield of Faith
Enthrall for Aid
Hypnotic Pattern for Sending
Confusion for Guardian of Faith
Hold Monster for Telepathic Bond

Love Domain spells first, converted into Unity Domain spells second. They got rid of the non-cleric spells and largely replaced them with stuff already on the cleric spell list.

[Nidgit]

I like the flavor of the Bard, but the Note of Potential seems annoyingly restrictive. Since the Note disappears after the Inspiration is used, you feel obligated to trigger the Note but it seems like it's often not going to have an effect. I feel like you should either have a second option for each Note usage, allow the Note to last for up to a minute after the Inspiration is used, or get to specify the Note type when you inspire your ally.

Unity Cleric seems mostly fine but not particularly interesting. The one thing that catches my eye is that it's heavily dependent on Channel Divinity, much more so than other Cleric subclasses. I'd like to see the next iteration have different triggers for its abilities.

Clockwork Soul is pretty neat, but the name and concept don't totally match up. Bulwark of Law seems a bit weak- I'd probably buff the ward HP in some fashion or switch the ability to a bonus action.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Because I get all my D&D info here, I didn't even notice there was a UA until long after the love domain was switched out. I understand why, but I do hope they eventually come back around to trying the domain again (with, uh, less mind control I guess).

Unity's otherwise just kinda... okay? It's fine? It feels like a mechanical pick more than a flavorful one, and a somewhat boring one at that. A demi-bless is good, but nothing exciting seeing as how every cleric in the game could do that from the very beginning, albeit for a shorter duration. It gets better, and the mechanics look solid, but there's just no pop. No wow. Even the flavor is nebulous. "I like working with people". Kay.

Creation bard reminds me of Drakengard 3 in a good way, and the clockwork sorcerer is just noticeably really good with a lot of fun mechanics. I expect either/both to get nerfed if we ever see them again, but I hope they maintain some of these abilities.

[JumboWheat01]

I find the Clockwork Soul the most interesting, and also the most counter-thematic. While it's not set in stone, Sorcerers (compared to Wizards) tend more towards Chaotic than Lawful, and having an origin based on the most lawful of lawful places just tickles my interest.

While I always think that Sorcerers have too few spells, a bonus ten does seem like a bit much when most official Sorcerer options don't get any bonus spells based on their origin. Outside of that, I love the options, and how your daily abilities can be forced through again by using sorcery points. That seems like a nice option.

[micahaphone]

I understand why people want a love domain - it's nigh universal in real world mythologies, popular concept, etc. But I looooove the unity domain. Be a weird off tank like the redemption paladin, except We All Lift Together. It's being an amazing support caster without being a healbot, like the Passive Soul divine soul sorcerer build.


Makes me want to play some sort of commie cleric travelling to spread a message of love and unity. A shame that I'm playing a bolshevik dwarf in out Dungeon World campaign, I'd hate to do the same character concept twice.



I also think that all sorcerers should get an origin spell list, but perhaps for balance concerns it'd be just one spell of each level. I love the origin lists for letting you use thematic spells without having to sacrifice any "mandatory" picks, but I get why some people are nervous about sorcerers not having a downside if they get too many spells.

[Amechra]

While I always think that Sorcerers have too few spells, a bonus ten does seem like a bit much when most official Sorcerer options don't get any bonus spells based on their origin. Outside of that, I love the options, and how your daily abilities can be forced through again by using sorcery points. That seems like a nice option.

They keep giving that to playtest Sorcerer subclasses and then they remove it before publishing.

[micahaphone]

Hey, that's not 100% true, in XGtE Divine Soul and Shadow sorcs get a whole 1 free bonus spell!



How do I make blue text on mobile?

[Vessyra]

I like how all of the clockwork sorcerer's features match with the flavour very thematically; it's also quite interesting to have a lawful subclass put onto the generally more chaotic sorcerers. I've never been a fan of sorcerers gaining bonus spells, but the current list fits very well, enough for me to almost think it a good idea. Power-wise, I do feel that Bulwark of Law will burn through sorcery points though, and Trance of Order seems to make the subclass as a whole a bit too overpowered.
The Unity Cleric at first felt like it wasn't the kind I would play, but then when I went to finish creating my cleric for my next campaign, I realised that it would actually fit perfectly; might just be a rare coincidence, but the fact that the very next character I created after reading this was Unity Domain makes me think that this subclass is good, thematically. Most of the features are good, though the emboldening bond is definitely going to burn through 1st level spells once the protection bond comes online and buffs it up. I really don't like the 17th level feature; yes, having a bunch of advantages looks nice, but the issue is that it only works while the ally is unconscious, meaning that you're incentivised not to heal your ally; plus, it also relies on one-half of the bond going down, and the other half staying up, and no-one just killing or healing the unconscious ally.
The College of Creation bard looks nice, due to its connection to the flavour text of bards in the player's handbook. The abilities also look fun, balanced and thematic, as well. I'm not looking to play a bard soon, though, so I don't have much to discuss about it.

[Morollan]

I was rolling up a cleric when the Unity domain was published and it seemed a perfect fit for my character. I've played it for 3 sessions now and I think it's pretty good. Shared Burden has saved us on a couple of occasions and the mini-bless comes in useful.