Fanfiction VS Original Work

[bluewind95]

Oh, wow. I'm actually posting a thread? Dear me, that's like... unheard of. I actually hope this is in the right forum.

Well... I was reading through the "Dumbledore is gay" thread and a little controversy that I found interesting came up. As the thread title states, it's "Fanfiction VS Original Work".

I'm a writer by hobby (though I don't think I'm very good and I'm not very likely to show my work to anyone), and I've done a bit of both things.

There's a story I'm working on that I started... well, several years ago.

It started as original fiction. Then, as I joined a fanfic-based role playing group, I adapted my little story into the "fan-verse" and, during my role-playing in that time and with that crowd, developed an entire story idea. I'll be frank. I didn't quite develop it with much regard to the universe I was supposed to be working on. Hiding behind the fact that "everything in my story happened 900 years ago", I was free to do as I please and only barely link it to the present universe. So far was I from the fan-universe I was working in, that I had to create several new species in order to fit in what I had. Eventually, a god-modder in the group that people SOMEHOW liked enough to ignore this person's actions and other reasons made me loathe my work so badly... that I restarted everything. This time, having no reason to adapt my work, I removed all fanfic elements and left my work completely independent from any fandom. Later on, some of that role-playing crowd joined in and transferred their work out of the "fan-verse" (in the case of those who never really had much regard to the canon in the first place) and some made up entirely new work. Some of us did both things. However, a few simply could not make the switch, claiming that fanfiction was better and that it should at least be allowed in a universe intended for original work.

Personally, I feel that fanfic provides many limitations to writing. You're given a world which already works a certain way and, instead of adapting the material, you must adapt your material to this world. You really can't adapt the material without destroying the world you're working in. Destroying the way this pre-made world works may make for an interesting story, yes, but on the other hand, I don't think that constitutes proper fanfiction. Proper fanfiction should, in my opinion, follow the canon universe well enough that you could almost think that the original creator created that story too. Changing the way things work, adding new species, changing the way the current species work and such is more... well... violating this world. And mind you, some of those ideas can be pretty awesome.

Original work, on the other hand, gives you free reign. You decide everything, from how the world works to the species in them, their looks and design and whatnot. There really aren't many limits there to what you can create. You can go wild with this. On the other hand, you generally don't have a guide for this. This was, actually, the complaint that those who could not switch had. Some claimed that most of their ideas came from the pre-made species template from the fanfiction universe. Others claimed that changing the canon universe into something completely different is what made it fun. There were other claims that creating something from scratch is too hard.

So... basically, there's pros and cons to both things. Pros of fanfiction include the fact that it gives you a pre-made template, the fact that if you're not all too good at visual designs, you don't need to worry much since you can just alter the designs provided for you, and that it has an element of something you know and like so you can identify with it. For example, fans of, say, Harry Potter, creating their own characters to live in that world that they like so much rather than creating an entirely different system to work with. Cons include the fact that changing the universe too much is violating it, the fact that you're limited to what is provided to you and that liking a world so much you want to live in it through your characters can lead to some vices in writing, such as the famous "Mary Sue" (Not necessarily, but it is a factor). Pros of original fiction include freedom, the fact that since your work is made for this original world, it will tend to fit in, and the fact that it's yours. Cons mainly include the fact that there's no guidelines for it and derived things from that.

So in the end, both have their pros and their cons. Fanfiction is not, by definition, bad writing. And original work is not, by definition, good writing. So... is either of these two things better than the other? Are they the same? Or is comparing them much like, as a poster in the Dumbledore thread said, "comparing the virtues of a hammer to those of an apple"?

[Solo]

You know, the Chinese novel Dream of the Red Mansion is composed of two parts.

The first 80 chapters were written by Cao Xueqin, but he died before the novel could be completed.

Many years after he died, the novel's last 40 chapters were completed by a man named Gao E, an official of the Qing dynasty or somesuch.

It is considered one of China's greatest novels, yet a third of it is fanfiction. :smallsmile:

[Setra]

I will say that I like fanfiction, and I will say that it can be quite good.

However I will also say that it never has the potential of original work, though in many cases said potential is never reached.

The thing about fanfiction is, a lot of people (like myself), become incredibly interested in the characters that they see in games and anime, and want to continue hearing about their adventures.

I've written fanfiction, and yes, it is incredibly limiting. I've also tried writing original works, and couldn't get very far, not due to lack of imagination, far from it, I have too much of one, and writing with limits can help that.

[valadil]

Admittedly I'm a little biased against fan fiction. I mean, FF by itself seems fine and dandy, but everyone I've ever known that's gotten into fan fiction has gotten into slash and that just squicks me out on some level.

Anyway, as far as amateur writing goes I'd say that they both have a purpose. Fan fiction is more accessible for someone wanting to learn to write. I see it as an enabler in that it gives a good starting point. People seem to have a much easier time jumping into FF than starting from scratch. It's easier to write too if you can ignore all that world building and just straight to your plot and characters.

But I think anyone taking writing seriously is going to have to do something original sooner or later. Fan fiction is fine and dandy when it comes to exercising your abilities, and there's certainly something to be said for being able to perfectly capture a character written by someone else, but I get the sense that writers who wish to go beyond being amateurs have to graduate out of fan fiction. I don't know if that stigma really exists or if I'm just imagining it.

Keep in mind I've never read any fanfic. I had a girlfriend who was pretty obsessed with it senior year so most of my ideas about it come from her. Anyway, I feel like fan comes before fiction and most of it is more about enjoying a particular fandom than about the actual writing. I'm not trying to say the writing is bad, but it's not what comes first in fanfic.

[Swordguy]

Question: would you consider people like Mike Stackpole and RA Salvadore who write primarily in other people's universes (Battletech and Forgotten Realms, respectively) to be fanfic writers?

If they are, and if they're considered "legitimate" authors (and, by and large, they are), then fanfic is a legitimate form of writing by definition, yes?

(I agree with the apples vs hammers comparison, by the way.)

[Green Bean]

I find that, like all fiction, it's best to deal with the individual works. To do otherwise is to cheat yourself out of some pretty good reading. That being said, there's a reason Sturgeon's Law (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SturgeonsLaw) is so commonly applied to fanfiction; most fanfiction is crud (admittedly, you can find enjoyment in the humourous critiques of the worst works). However, there are a lot of really good stories out there. Shocker: Legit, for instance, was an incredible piece of work. You just have to be willing to shift through the gravel to get the gold.

[valadil]

Question: would you consider people like Mike Stackpole and RA Salvadore who write primarily in other people's universes (Battletech and Forgotten Realms, respectively) to be fanfic writers?


Haven't read either. However, so far as I'm aware they each put their own characters in an existing world. Maybe we should differentiate between writing that does that and writing that uses existing characters too?

Also I'm fairly certain that someone commissioned to write for an existing series would be given creative license. I don't think anyone would argue that Salvatore's work isn't canon in the FR universe. It was probably canon before he even started writing it. Maybe that's where the line between fanfic and fic can be drawn. If Salvatore is considered fanfiction, then what of Christopher Tolkien who wrote portions of the Silmarillion after Tolkien himself died? Or even of TV show writers who join a show in progress? They have to take someone else's world and characters and give them new stories. What they do is probably more similar to writing fanfic than normal fiction, but I don't think anyone would call it fanfic because it is in fact canon.

[SITB]

Then how about Fortuna Saga? It's in the FF VI universe during the time skip after Celes got amnesia, and yet it's almost entirely original (not to mention almost entirely devoid of the FF VI cast).

Not to mention the Hymns Of The Apostate, which takes place after the end of the game.

[Indon]

Admittedly I'm a little biased against fan fiction. I mean, FF by itself seems fine and dandy, but everyone I've ever known that's gotten into fan fiction has gotten into slash and that just squicks me out on some level.


I've written fan fiction, but I've never quite figured out what people refer to when they say 'slash', 'slash fic', or variants thereof. When I see it written I think 'snuff film', but I don't think that's a correct assumption.

But, on to the topic. I think that fan fiction has the same potential for quality as any original work does. However, any writer who wants to make a living is probably going to avoid fan fiction if copyright is going to get in the way (many excellent webcomics are essentially fan-fiction parodies), which probably leads to there being less professional-level fanfiction than original material.

[Solo]

I've written fan fiction, but I've never quite figured out what people refer to when they say 'slash', 'slash fic', or variants thereof. When I see it written I think 'snuff film', but I don't think that's a correct assumption.

Gay parings.

[Indon]

Gay parings.

Ah.

Really not seeing how writing fanfiction would lead to that.

[valadil]

I've written fan fiction, but I've never quite figured out what people refer to when they say 'slash', 'slash fic', or variants thereof. When I see it written I think 'snuff film', but I don't think that's a correct assumption.


I think it started when someone wanted to see a story about Kirk hooking up with Spock. Kirk / Spock (emphasis on the slash) started it all.

I'm not so much bothered by it being gay pairings. It's just that slash is so dominant in fan fiction. One of my friends, for instance, posted a lot of slash to one particular forum. When she posted fanfic that wasn't slash to the same forum, she had to use a different username because she didn't want anyone to know it was her writing something that wasn't slash.

Having that much focus on one particular topic is just something I can't seem to wrap my head around. I can see why people would want to write in a setting they already know and love. I can see why they'd want to do so in a community with other fans of the setting. I can even see why they'd want stories with romance. But why so much of it focuses on slash (and often between two characters who would never get together to begin with) is something that still confuses me.

I apologize if it looks like I've derailed the thread. I know it was fanfic vs original work and not fanfic vs slash, but slash is a subgenre of fanfic and it keeps me (and presumably others) from taking fanfic seriously, which I think is relevant to the thread.

[Brickwall]

Do I have anything against fan-fiction? Nope, not at all. I admire the ability to make a story work in a setting you have little to no control over. Making one's own setting is a different talent than being a writer (though skills in one lend to skills in the other, certainly). Plus, the time to make a setting is time one could spend writing.

I find that I can admire the ability to write in fanfiction or original fiction. In fact, some fan writers are good enough that I am willing to consider their work "fanon" (in my case, canon not established by the creator but that does not conflict with the creator's canon). That said:

I hate fanfiction. I avoid fanfiction.net like a leper with the bubonic plague. Given the fact that I do not believe that writing in an established universe, or even with established characters, makes a work bad, you may ask, "Why, Brickwall, why do you hate fanfiction and create extremely long sentences for no reason?" Well, I'll tell you. Most fanfiction changes something about the original fiction. Something significant enough that I notice it. And it's easy to get minor things by me, since I don't look for them. I'm avoiding naming a specific fictional universe here because it happens with ALL of them (that get written about). If you're going to change something, don't write fan fiction. There is no reason to use someone else's idea if you're just going to rape it. Make your own universe! Then you won't be raping!

There is okay fanfiction. If you don't change anything established in the work, hey, I have no problem with it. But most fanfiction writers don't abide by that. Many of them write the fic because there's something they'd like to change about the original work. That makes me sick. It really does.

Independent of the problem I ranted about, fanfiction and original fiction should be judged by the same standards.

And, because I am addicted to argument, I have created a short spiel to mock my own rant. I don't believe a word of it, though. Enjoy:
You know what, Brickwall? What's wrong with wanting to change something about an established world? So what if I want Character X to be a little less whiny? [Author's note: Okay, yeah, lots of protagonists are way too whiny.] So what if I want to see Character X change sexualities and get with Character Y because I think it's hot? [Author's note: And we're back to me calling you a sick bastard] Should we never deviate from the rules of what we're writing about? Oh, hey, I'm gonna make a story about magic introduced into our modern world! Oh, wait, that would be altering the established setting! Guess that makes it suck! Yeah, I've read your stories, Brick, and you do that all the time. Guess you think you suck, don't you? [Author's note: That last part isn't how I argue, actually, but it's my shoutout to pretty much anyone who's ever gotten into an argument with me. Except the ones who were right, but I can count them on a hand.]

You're an uptight loser, and you should let us write what we want, instead of insulting us. [Author's note: Why in all the nine hells did you read this if you didn't want to be insulted?]

Ahh, that was fun. Yes, that's how other people tend to talk to me. I've heard it so much I can mimic it now. Scary, eh?

[Swordguy]

<awesome>

Ahh, that was fun. Yes, that's how other people tend to talk to me. I've heard it so much I can mimic it now. Scary, eh?

What about the various Star War EU writers? They change the universe on a massive scale, yet they're considered quasi-canon. Are those considered fanfics?

[valadil]

Brick, are you opposed to all changes or just changing the premise? Because if characters don't change over the course of a story there wasn't much point to the story.

I'll agree that changing a premise (setting, characters, or whatever) defeats the purpose, with the exception that a single change should be allowed. If the whole point of the story is "how would things have turned out had so-and-so not been a pompous ass" you could potentially have a decent story. Aasimov's rules for sci fi writing included making exactly one change or assumption, but remaining consistent after that (otherwise you run into too much saved by technology style deus ex machina).

[Brickwall]

Brick, are you opposed to all changes or just changing the premise? Because if characters don't change over the course of a story there wasn't much point to the story.

I thought I was clear, but I was refering to what you call premise.

Swordguy: I was actually thinking about mentioning those. Like I said, I call them fanfic, but I consider the good ones fanon. And there are a lot of good ones. I'm not so much a fan of anything involving the Yuuzhan Vogh (sp?). I would have liked a "And they lived happily ever after" once they got rid of the Empire, honestly (as if they didn't drag THAT on long enough). A lot of Star Wars fanfic involves characters and worlds totally seperate from the ones covered in canon. I tolerate that stuff. As long as it stays within the rules of the universe (Dark Side users inevitably become corrupt, etc), it's good.

I like Aasimov's rule that valadil mentioned. In terms of writing original sci-fi, it's a bit too strict, and a lot of his writing breaches it from what I've seen of it, but the idea behind it is good.

[Indon]

If you're going to change something, don't write fan fiction. There is no reason to use someone else's idea if you're just going to rape it. Make your own universe! Then you won't be raping!


What if you want to parody the original?

Alternately, what if you saw a piece and thought, "Wow, I could write that better if..."? I mean, you could just re-name everything and tweak enough details so as to not be sued, but really, everyone knows you'd be writing Star Wars With Dragons (or whatever), so why not just be honest about it?

[Tirian]

I mean, you could just re-name everything and tweak enough details so as to not be sued, but really, everyone knows you'd be writing Star Wars With Dragons (or whatever), so why not just be honest about it?

Because there is nothing dishonest about writing your own story that is really Star Wars With Dragons. I mean, heck, if we went your way there would be no Star Wars at all because George Lucas would have released a samurai movie in 1977.

[Brickwall]

Unless you have a knight who is the heir to the Tao named Loke Groundrunner, or something silly like that, it's probably fine. The base ideas used in Star Wars are older than George Lucas by far.

Parodies are not fanfiction. They are parodies. The intent behind them is totally different. And I have to do laundry, so I'm not gonna bother getting into it.

[TheEmerged]

I have to admit, my personal favorite genres of fanfic are the "crossover" genre and the "no-prize" genre.

Some crossovers work better than others, obivously. When I write them myself, I find that it's an easy trap to spend most of your time having the characters make fun of each other's genres.

No-prizing is fun. If you're not familiar with it, take an existing/pre-known flaw in a continuity and write a story around it. For example, for those familiar with Naruto, how did this incompetent kid incapable of the most basic of jutsu break in and steal the Sacred Scroll of Sealing in the first episode? How do you have electricity, TVs, computers, wireless headsets -- but no cars?

[bluewind95]

Ah, Brickwall. I see we agree about the "raping" of a fandom universe. Yes, that's my main issue with fanfiction currently. There's really good fanfiction out there, yes. I actually have some VERY talented writer friends that have tried their hand at fanfiction. Their style, their plots, their characterization... it's very, very neat. But their ideas sometimes don't fit in with the universe they're writing for. And despite their excellent ideas, they end up raping the universe. Transfer those same ideas out of this fan-verse and you end up with an awesome plot that's not raping anything.

[Turcano]

What about the various Star War EU writers? They change the universe on a massive scale, yet they're considered quasi-canon. Are those considered fanfics?

Authors of this sort of writing are distinguished from fanficcers in the following respects:


They are commissioned by the IP holder and are therefore given both permission and compensation for their work. (Yes, money does buy legitimacy. Life is unfair.)
They have editors, and are beholden to the IP holder's veto.


By contrast, fanficcers almost never gain permission to use other people's IP, and they do whatever the hell they want with it.

[Semidi]

I think that a story is the maker's intellectual property. They are the god of their little domain, and someone infringing upon that is committing a grievous intellectual sin. For instance, if I make a character and breath life into him, he is mine I would be deeply annoyed if someone took him and crafted him/her into something unlike what I intended. I realize archetypes exist but that’s just the bones of the character, the meat comes from the author.

I personally don’t read fan fiction because I don’t put up with bad stories. This is probably why I don’t watch TV, though that’s completely irrelevant. I’m sure some well written fanfic exists, but I wouldn’t read that on general principle.

Please note, that all of this is without the author's consent. If they give permission to carry on a story with one of their characters then it's all well and good.

[Executor]

Ah, Brickwall. I see we agree about the "raping" of a fandom universe. Yes, that's my main issue with fanfiction currently. There's really good fanfiction out there, yes. I actually have some VERY talented writer friends that have tried their hand at fanfiction. Their style, their plots, their characterization... it's very, very neat.

Yes, there are some good fanfic writers. But for every one good writer, there are about ten Tara Gilesbies. You don't know who she is? Simply search "My Immortal" on fanfiction.net, Harry Potter section and behold the horror. Trust me, it's not for the faint of heart or, for that matter, anyone who values proper English language skills.

Or, you could check the good ol' Encyclopedia Dramatica, and get the same information AND read people's dissing comments on this monstrously awful writer.

[averagejoe]

Consider this: Milton's Paradise Lost is one big fanfic which most people consider to be fanon.

In every creative field, there are many people who begin by imitation. There is nothing wrong with budding writers writing fanfiction; indeed, it can be a good way to practice, and get into writing.

I feel the same way about fanfiction the same way I feel about comic books: contrary to popular opinion, there is no reason they have to be bad. That said, most of it is extremely stupid.

[Turcano]

Consider this: Milton's Paradise Lost is one big fanfic which most people consider to be fanon.

In every creative field, there are many people who begin by imitation. There is nothing wrong with budding writers writing fanfiction; indeed, it can be a good way to practice, and get into writing.

The Bible is public domain; public domain stuff is fair game to everybody. It still can reinforce bad writing habits and it still may be horrible, but nobody can sue you over it.

[averagejoe]

The Bible is public domain; public domain stuff is fair game to everybody. It still can reinforce bad writing habits and it still may be horrible, but nobody can sue you over it.

In my mind it's a fairly subtle distinction. I mean, what you're talking about seems like it matters more in terms of whether you get sued for using it. Still, I don't pretend to know very much at all about the intricacies of the definitions of "fanfiction." I had thought that it constituted any story written about a setting, characters, etc. not belonging to you, but I could be wrong.

[Turcano]

In my mind it's a fairly subtle distinction. I mean, what you're talking about seems like it matters more in terms of whether you get sued for using it. Still, I don't pretend to know very much at all about the intricacies of the definitions of "fanfiction." I had thought that it constituted any story written about a setting, characters, etc. not belonging to you, but I could be wrong.

Well, there's also the fact that copyright as we didn't know it didn't exist before the 19th century, and plagiarism was acceptable back then (look at the works of Shakespeare). Our standards have changed considerably since.

[Artemician]

I think that a story is the maker's intellectual property. They are the god of their little domain, and someone infringing upon that is committing a grievous intellectual sin. For instance, if I make a character and breath life into him, he is mine I would be deeply annoyed if someone took him and crafted him/her into something unlike what I intended. I realize archetypes exist but that’s just the bones of the character, the meat comes from the author.

If someone changes your character, then it's not really your character anymore, no? Then why would you be annoyed, seeing as it isn't dealing with your character any more? :smallconfused:


I personally don’t read fan fiction because I don’t put up with bad stories. This is probably why I don’t watch TV, though that’s completely irrelevant. I’m sure some well written fanfic exists, but I wouldn’t read that on general principle.

Heh. You're not alone. I don't read most of everything on general principle. Whether it's Fanfic or not is irrelevant.


Yes, there are some good fanfic writers. But for every one good writer, there are about ten Tara Gilesbies. You don't know who she is? Simply search "My Immortal" on fanfiction.net, Harry Potter section and behold the horror. Trust me, it's not for the faint of heart or, for that matter, anyone who values proper English language skills.

Or, you could check the good ol' Encyclopedia Dramatica, and get the same information AND read people's dissing comments on this monstrously awful writer.

I can probably quote some Original Fiction that is equally bad (Eye of Argon, anyone?). Sturgeon's Law applies equally to all things, the 90% of crap you see in fanfic is equally distributed across Original Fiction as well. It's not specific to Fanfiction.


Well, there's also the fact that copyright as we didn't know it didn't exist before the 19th century, and plagiarism was acceptable back then (look at the works of Shakespeare). Our standards have changed considerably since.

Frankly, I'm of the sort that don't really care whether fanfiction is morally acceptable or no. Copyright or no copyright, it doesn't hurt anyone, and that's all that's important to me, basically. The small majority of people who don't want people to make Fanfic of their work *coughAnneMcAffreycough* can put up a Cease and Desist LawyerLetter. As for the rest of us, we can simply get on with writing whatever makes us happy.

[Brickwall]

If someone changes your character, then it's not really your character anymore, no? Then why would you be annoyed, seeing as it isn't dealing with your character any more? :smallconfused:

Of course it is! A rose by any other name would smell as sweet, prick your fingers, and contain lots of Vitamin C. You can't just change one or two things and rightfully claim that it's "totally different". Luke Skywalker would still be George Lucas's character, even if somebody wrote a less whiny version of him.

Going by your model, the author would then be using a different character each time the one was mentioned in the book, as they are constantly changing their attitude, thoughts, etc. Does this sound like a reasonable claim to you? It sounds ludicrous to me.

[Indon]

I can probably quote some Original Fiction that is equally bad (Eye of Argon, anyone?). Sturgeon's Law applies equally to all things, the 90% of crap you see in fanfic is equally distributed across Original Fiction as well. It's not specific to Fanfiction.


Well, there's the simple matter that fanfiction does not get published, regardless of if it is good or bad.

Thus, when one looks for the best of fanfiction or original works, it's easy to find a filter to get rid of a lot of the bad original work; just look for the books that made it inside Barnes and Noble.

Fanfiction has no such easy filter; High and low-quality fanfiction are stocked alongside the virtual shelves together, and the equivalent would be if Barnes and Noble had stocks full of books that honestly were not fit to be published, but put them on their shelves right alongside the ones that were.

So, yes, there's good fanfiction. But it's harder to find.

And Brickwall, a rose by any other name still has the qualities of a rose. But a 50-foot tall, man-eating plant called a rose is something entirely different... even if it still smells nice.

We need to distinguish here the difference between changing a character and leaving the name, and changing the name and leaving the character; some in this thread have expressed that they feel the second to be appropriate, while others have expressed that they feel the first to be.

[Netaria]

Ana...

Okay, so basicly you're saying, that bad fanfiction shouldn't be written? Well, I think most people agree on that.

That doesn't make all fanfiction bad. It's just a symptom of how good the writer is. Also, sometimes people really just sort of want to turn a world or a character on their head. Fanfiction is for _fun_ no one is buying or selling it or claiming it's some great literary addition. So, sometimes you get really crappy fanfiction, there are really crappy original books too.

As far as pairings go...well, there really is no rules there. And everyone in life has different experiences, so everyone interprets characters and their behaviours differently. Just because I see the potential two characters to be together doesn't mean anyone else will, or vice versa. I have definitely seen pairings out there that I can not fathom how people see it. But they do, that's their interpretation and they have as much of a right to it as you or I or the author has to theirs.

An author can only give us so much information on any given thing, the rest is left to us. Once that story leaves the authors hands and is in print and in the readers hands and mind and heart it becomes as much the readers as the authors.

[Umbral_Arcanist]

Back to slash for a sec, does it have to be gay pairings? i always thought it was just any non-canon pairing (shipping).

[Tirian]

Back to slash for a sec, does it have to be gay pairings? i always thought it was just any non-canon pairing (shipping).

You know, I also believed that two days ago. Turns out that we're both wrong. (Indeed, if wikipedia is right, slash is specifically two male characters.)

[TheEmerged]

RE: "other" pairings. One of the most amusing fanfic competitions I ever participated in was JLA based. You had to pair Wonder Woman up with one of her teammates OTHER than Superman, Batman, or Aquaman.

/sarcasm on
I thought for certain my Plastic Man submission was a shoe-in :smallbiggrin:
/sarcasm off

Jokes aside, that is the pairing I went with :smalltongue:

[bluewind95]

As far as using other people's characters go(to the "a rose by any other name is still a rose" thing), I think there's a line between blatantly raping the character's design and a character evolving.

If I take... let's say, Gandalf, and make him into a whiny, childish person and decide that he's in love with Sauron's daughter, pulling said character out of my.... um.. nose... I do think that I'll be entirely raping the character AND the universe. And even if I'm an awesome writer who can pull this idea off with style, I think it would be wrong to do so, and not just because of copyright (after all, fanfiction generally doesn't even get profit 'cause it's done "just for fun"), but because I'd be really, really disrespectful of the original universe. It would be much more acceptable to make an entirely different story with this idea, and making it entirely my own, rather than violating another's work so badly.

If, on the other hand, I work with material very similar to the original author's material (it can never be the same, as no matter how well you "know" the character, it's not the same as what the author works the character as), I can produce a very nice piece of fanfiction work. At least... I can do so if I'm a good writer, anyways. :smalltongue:

I think that's the main issue with fanfiction. Many people (and I am a "sinner" in that aspect as well!) entirely destroy the basis of the original work in order to fit their ideas into this premade universe. Shouldn't it be the other way around? If you like someone's work so much so as to work with it, shouldn't you adapt your ideas to the original work instead of adapting the original work to suit your ideas? I mean, if your ideas are different enough to require editing the original work, wouldn't it be better to make it an entirely different thing?

As for fanfiction being a way to help writers practice... I'm not sure I agree. Fanfiction can indeed help one think of plots and such, but if the characters are mostly made and the settings are generally entirely made already, and those are integral parts of story-writing, how helpful is it, really? Wouldn't it be just an entirely different style for writing and writing one thing doesn't really help one in writing the other?

[Mr._Blinky]

Really, I'd say it depends on what you consider fanfic, and I see I'm not alone. If I've got to make a choice on which is better, I'll go original work all the way though.

In terms of what I'd consider fanfic, I think it really depends on how close it is to the actual work itself. If someone were to, say, write a short-story set in Middle Earth or the universe of Warhammer 40K, I wouldn't consider those fanfic in any but the most general sense. But if it involved Aragorn going out to save the hobbits including Frodo (especially after Frodo leaves), yeeeeah, that's pushing it.

I think my main problem with fanfic is what I've always seen as a lack of originality. Using my previous examples, I'd say a story in WH 40K universe could be pretty original, because of the expansiveness of that world and the sheer number of ways it could be used. That's why making custom SM Chapters can be so much fun. But the moment you take someone else's established characters and plot ideas and twist them to your own, I'd say you've gone too far. Writing an original story within a universe is one thing, using someone else's ideas to create your own version of events is another. In order for Aragorn to go save those hobbits, something in the setting or characters is going to change, willing or not, and that just doesn't appeal to me.

Really, I'll take original works over fanfic any day, because while it might not always be better written, or even that much more original (*cough*Eragon*cough*), it at least tries to come up with its own ideas. Whether it's successful or not, at least the writer tried to make it their own creation, rather than feeling they had to use someone else's. That's one of the reasons why after the age of around 10 I stopped using elves and dwarves in any fantasy I wrote, since while they predate Tolkien, they're so overused they feel unoriginal and even cliche. And even though I've moved on to more "near-future" writing, I still don't like the idea of using someone else's ideas in place of my own.

[averagejoe]

As for fanfiction being a way to help writers practice... I'm not sure I agree. Fanfiction can indeed help one think of plots and such, but if the characters are mostly made and the settings are generally entirely made already, and those are integral parts of story-writing, how helpful is it, really? Wouldn't it be just an entirely different style for writing and writing one thing doesn't really help one in writing the other?

Untrue. World and character building aren't integral to writing. Just look at any book set in the real world. While "legitimate" novels without original characters are rarer, they do exist, and some are quite good. This is beside the point, though.

It's just that the focus is different. For new writers it can be easier to focus exclusively on plot/style instead of having to worry about coming up with a satisfying setting/characters. Musicians begin by learning preexisting songs, which helps them with technique and such. While it is important for a musician to come up with original work, they generally start by imitating great musicians before them, and this is instructive. Fanfiction can be instructive in the same way.

[Brickwall]

Untrue. World and character building aren't integral to writing. Just look at any book set in the real world. While "legitimate" novels without original characters are rarer, they do exist, and some are quite good. This is beside the point, though.

It's just that the focus is different. For new writers it can be easier to focus exclusively on plot/style instead of having to worry about coming up with a satisfying setting/characters. Musicians begin by learning preexisting songs, which helps them with technique and such. While it is important for a musician to come up with original work, they generally start by imitating great musicians before them, and this is instructive. Fanfiction can be instructive in the same way.

But people never seem to write fanfiction with that in mind. They change stuff. It'd be like changing the key to Canon in D before practicing it. They never bother keeping things the same.

Fanfiction, could, theoretically, be used to practice writing. One of the IA entrants used a pre-existing setting (though since nobody else was doing it, I counted it against him), and didn't do anything to it. That was practice. However, I've never seen any fanfiction that is in keeping with what I know of the original work. And that's the issue.

[Machete]

Ah.

Really not seeing how writing fanfiction would lead to that.


It always does. I don't know HOW yet.

I was at a Harry Potter convention(well, there were monly 20 people there..) (I like the movies, never read the books) with a friend who was a Harry Potter fanatic.

So we all get talking and the subject of fanfic comes up and this sweet old looking lady says something like, "I read a VERY good fanfic recently that details an ending to the series. It was all quite normal. I mean, except for the Harry/Draco coupling."

The entire room went hilariously silent except for the nigh audible mental screams of the parents and their children present.

Every series ever that has fanfic has gay pairings if there are more than 3 male characters in the series at all. It is like a law of physics.


Fanfic just rarely has the magic of the original. There probably are exceptions though.

[Reel On, Love]

Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap.

With fanfiction, it's a whole lot more than 90%.

It's not that using someone else's world, characters, et cetera can't be used well in a literary way--subversion, using the existing world/characters as a shared frame of reference, et cetera.
It just pretty much never is.

For the record, "slash" is male/male pairings, "femslash" is female/female pairings, and "het" is male/female pairings.

[Artemician]

Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap.

With fanfiction, it's a whole lot more than 90%.

It's not that using someone else's world, characters, et cetera can't be used well in a literary way--subversion, using the existing world/characters as a shared frame of reference, et cetera.
It just pretty much never is.

This is an awfully pessimistic view.. but personally, it doesn't matter. You're only going to read the good stuff anyway, so why care about what you're not going to read?

[Turcano]

Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap.

With fanfiction, it's a whole lot more than 90%.

Amended Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything that actually gets published is crap.

It makes sense to me. Those 90% were (mostly) at least good enough to get published. However, the internets have given a venue for the multitudes of deluded people who have absolutely no business putting pen to paper (or fingers to keyboard, as the case may be).

[xanaphia]

Further Amended Sturgeon's Law:

90% of everything you read is crap.

Even more pessimistic!

[bluewind95]

Perhaps the reason there seems to be so much more bad fanfiction than original work is not so much the premise of fanfiction, but rather the ease of publishing.

With original work, there's generally some sort of filterlike publishing companies and editors. They can't just let anything go through, since their profit depends on the sales of each work they publish. With fanfiction anyone can publish anything and there's not so many filters, if there's any filter at all. So, it's much easier to find bad fanfiction than bad original work.

[sun_tzu]

Perhaps the reason there seems to be so much more bad fanfiction than original work is not so much the premise of fanfiction, but rather the ease of publishing.

With original work, there's generally some sort of filterlike publishing companies and editors. They can't just let anything go through, since their profit depends on the sales of each work they publish. With fanfiction anyone can publish anything and there's not so many filters, if there's any filter at all. So, it's much easier to find bad fanfiction than bad original work.

Not really. There are websites that let you put original fiction on the web as easily as fanfics.
The way I see it...The problem isn't that fanfiction is inherently bad (it isn't), but that it is more attractive to bad writers (since it requires less effort). All the people writing fanfics that could make you gouge your eyes out? They could be writing original fiction and it would, in all likelihood, still be horrible.

[Trog]

I say if the person writing stays true to the premises of the original and has a good story then I see nothing wrong with it. My only problem would be with how far it strayed from the original (midichlorians *shudder* - and yes I know this wasn't fanfic but it strayed FAR from the original). Imagine if someone was able to take the characters/setting of your favorite story and write a worthwhile book. Would you condemn it simply because the person was a fan? (Personally, I'd be happy to read a Tolkein inspired fanfic that stays true to the world. Have yet to find one though.)

Granted much fanfic is unpublishable... but so is most writing, frankly.

[Netaria]

As far as using other people's characters go(to the "a rose by any other name is still a rose" thing), I think there's a line between blatantly raping the character's design and a character evolving.

If I take... let's say, Gandalf, and make him into a whiny, childish person and decide that he's in love with Sauron's daughter, pulling said character out of my.... um.. nose... I do think that I'll be entirely raping the character AND the universe. And even if I'm an awesome writer who can pull this idea off with style, I think it would be wrong to do so, and not just because of copyright (after all, fanfiction generally doesn't even get profit 'cause it's done "just for fun"), but because I'd be really, really disrespectful of the original universe. It would be much more acceptable to make an entirely different story with this idea, and making it entirely my own, rather than violating another's work so badly.

Except that being a good writer is about much more than the mechanics of writing. And as with labeling anything as being good/cool/etc it's subjective to the person doing the labeling, but there is generally a kind of consensus on things of true horribleness. (Like your above example.)

---

The majority of fanfiction that you find these days serves no "literary" purpose at all and is instead a stand in for porn mags for this generations female teenagers. Look at any high school and many middle schools. The males have an underground organization that would make the CIA jealous in order to distribute porn amongst themselves. A lot of them also simply read their dad's mags. Females often find it much more difficult to get ahold of porn to their tastes and would see themselves treated much more severely 9 times out of 10 if caught with it. So....fanfiction.

I'm not saying this justifies fanfiction in a general note, but it does explain the phenomena and the obsession with 'romance,' pairings, and sex fics...

The fact that your average young person doesn't write that well is also not really a surprise. It's "virgin writer" syndrome. They can try to write about what they don't know, but in lacking life experience a lot of characters personalities get "raped" down to their most meager offerings or start behaving like selfish teenagers.

---

But back to the bad!fic...man, it's just a symptom of people who aren't good at writing. Whether their problem is grammar, spelling, characterization, lack of real life experience, or all of the above...that doesn't change that some people just suck at writing in general whether it's original or fanfiction and that the fact that they suck doesn't actually take away from the stories written by people who write excellently.

[valadil]

Back to the fanfic as practice for writing idea, I'd like to reiterate that it is in fact very good practice to learn to write in someone else's style and to mimic someone else's characters.

[electromagnetic]

I like some fanfic, but most of it is either a talented writer wasting their time or an untalented writer wasting my time. If the talented ones stopped writing fanfic and wrote their own works, then everyone could ignore the untalented writers who can't do anything other than steal someone elses characters.

I've read some fanfic written by people who don't even have poor punctuation and grammar. The most fundamental rule of story telling is that each speaker gets their own line, which has existed for over 2,000 years and there's still morons that haven't figured it out even though they're writing FAN-FICTION which means they've most likely read the original work which had individual lines for each speaker.

I mean my god, it's so prevelant too. It's simple, the genius' who invented the keyboard even included the RETURN key to get you the new line, but does anyone use it? Hardly.


Back to the fanfic as practice for writing idea, I'd like to reiterate that it is in fact very good practice to learn to write in someone else's style and to mimic someone else's characters.

I'd completely disagree. It's very, very bad practice to learn to write in someone elses style because it butchers a talented writers own voice. All writers get hired because they have a 'unique' voice, you can pick up their book and even if its in a different style I mean look at Old Man's War and Ghost Brigades, they're a switch between first person and third person and present tense and past tense yet you can tell instantly they're the same writer.

The whole point of writing is to make it your work, not to make it someone elses. That's the point if you're becoming a ghostwriter, but unless you want to spend your life writing crappy biographies of b-list stars then you sure as hell don't want to become a ghostwriter.

It's good practice to learn to write in other styles and with different characters, but they should always be unique to the writer. Fanfic is good as training wheels, but they should come off ASAP or you'll never be truely compitent or even good as you'll always have a crutch.

[Lord Iames Osari]

I'd completely disagree. It's very, very bad practice to learn to write in someone elses style because it butchers a talented writers own voice. All writers get hired because they have a 'unique' voice, you can pick up their book and even if its in a different style I mean look at Old Man's War and Ghost Brigades, they're a switch between first person and third person and present tense and past tense yet you can tell instantly they're the same writer.

The whole point of writing is to make it your work, not to make it someone elses. That's the point if you're becoming a ghostwriter, but unless you want to spend your life writing crappy biographies of b-list stars then you sure as hell don't want to become a ghostwriter.

It's good practice to learn to write in other styles and with different characters, but they should always be unique to the writer. Fanfic is good as training wheels, but they should come off ASAP or you'll never be truely compitent or even good as you'll always have a crutch.

Am I the only one who sees the contradiction here? "It's bad for practice! It is good for practice!" It can't be both, you know.

[averagejoe]

But people never seem to write fanfiction with that in mind. They change stuff. It'd be like changing the key to Canon in D before practicing it. They never bother keeping things the same.

Fanfiction, could, theoretically, be used to practice writing. One of the IA entrants used a pre-existing setting (though since nobody else was doing it, I counted it against him), and didn't do anything to it. That was practice. However, I've never seen any fanfiction that is in keeping with what I know of the original work. And that's the issue.

I was only commenting on the potential for fanfiction to be instructive for new writers. To that end it really doesn't matter what they change, or how good it is, just that they're writing and trying to get better. (Of course, if they're not trying to get better then it doesn't matter what they write.)

[electromagnetic]

Am I the only one who sees the contradiction here? "It's bad for practice! It is good for practice!" It can't be both, you know.

Actually if you'd have read it correctly I said writing fanfic is bad because it butchers the writers ability to write in their own voice and it's bad practice to learn to write in someone elses voice. I said writing fanfic is good practice for learning how to write. They are two completely different things. As I said, if you spend too long writing fanfic you've likely completely killed your internal voice and learnt someone elses.

So yes you are the only one who saw a contradiction when two completely different elements of writing were being described. I'm sorry I broke paragraph and thus changed the topic I was discussing, but anyone who's learnt how to write is supposed to know that a new paragraph means a discourse on a new idea, topic or point: see wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph).

[Lord Iames Osari]

I accept your correction. But why does writing fanfiction necessarily result in a "butchering" of the writer's ability to write in their own voice?

If, while learning how to draw, I imitate the drawing style of, say, Bill Watterson's Calvin and Hobbes strips, does that mean that I have butchered my ability to draw in my own style?

[electromagnetic]

I accept your correction. But why does writing fanfiction necessarily result in a "butchering" of the writer's ability to write in their own voice?

If, while learning how to draw, I imitate the drawing style of, say, Bill Watterson's Calvin and Hobbes strips, does that mean that I have butchered my ability to draw in my own style?

Thats why I said it's like training wheels on learning how to write. Just like drawing, you can learn how to write in a certain style. But if the only thing you ever do is copy someone elses characters and someone elses scenes and settings and you just keep doing that, then you're never going to learn to make your own.

If you spend 5 years only drawing Calvin and Hobbes strips, what happens when you realise that what you want to draw is a dark gritty horror graphic novel. You have the principles of drawing down, but you have no clue how to draw the characters that are there in your head and you have no clue about making it dark and moody or setting up a big twist.

I only ever wrote one fanfic. It was set in Middle-Earth, but it had no existing characters, I just used the backstory to learn the basics of character building. Since then I've never once done fanfic, because I need to improve on everything together. I could have spent five years doing stories done in Middle-Earth, but then when I try to do my own work I'd just be stuck making poor imitations of LotR.

For people with slower learning rates, that take more practicing or whatever, will likely spend more time improving their skills in fanfic. The best way to help themselves is to use the original authors backstory and if they're really new their characters too, but they should never write out of their own voice. Try writing a fanfic of something based in 3rd person and past tense in first person and present tense or vice versa. But I strongly believe a person should stop writing fanfic ASAP because not creating everything on their own will hurt them more in the long run than it will help them in the short run.

[bluewind95]

Expanding a bit more on the idea of fanfic as a learning-to-write device... wouldn't, for example, writing fanfics for several universes be helpful as opposed to getting stuck in one? I would think that in that way, you learn several styles and when you write your own things, you can mix them up and add your own stuff and make it your own.

[electromagnetic]

For people who find writing Fanfics, then I'd say start work from writing in your favourite universe and then start expanding out until you get to the point that you're not even writing in someone elses universe anymore.

So yeah, getting into multiple universes would help someone learn the different styles that are essential to being able to write well. I'd suggest going for writers with radically different universes and styles.

While on the subject of learning-to-write, I'd say everyone should read as widely as possible if they want to get good enough to publish. If you only read one particular genre, then you get less source material to draw from. I write primarly sci-fi and fantasy, so for the sci-fi I get a copy of new scientist flop on my doorstep. But you also have to build societies inside the stories, the 'good guys' and 'bad guys' so to speak, and to be a good writer you've got to know both sides of the arguments in your story and why they're both right and wrong. So I've also got copies of philosophy books and all sorts.

They killed my shelf, the poor thing never had a chance.

[Indon]

Thats why I said it's like training wheels on learning how to write. Just like drawing, you can learn how to write in a certain style. But if the only thing you ever do is copy someone elses characters and someone elses scenes and settings and you just keep doing that, then you're never going to learn to make your own.


I disagree.

Certainly, writing in only one style may get you in a rut. But fanfiction as a whole need not be limited to one universe or style; a fanfiction writer can emulate multiple different styles and learn immensely, just as an actor can develop multiple characters and learn more about acting in general.

Variety can be obtained within fanfiction just as it can be obtained without it.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Learning to write in other people's styles can be lucrative. Ghost Writers don't tend to be at the top of the respect pile however.


Consider this: Milton's Paradise Lost is one big fanfic which most people consider to be fanon.

Yeah, and some people think it is canon. Or that the devil is a good guy, or even that he exists.


Well, there's also the fact that copyright as we didn't know it didn't exist before the 19th century, and plagiarism was acceptable back then (look at the works of Shakespeare). Our standards have changed considerably since.

Shakespeare didn't steal stories, he adapted them. It's not plagerism if everyone knows you did it. Taking a well known story and adapting it into a differant medium is fine. The Greek (and by Greek I probably mean Athenian) tradgedians mostly relied on myths for their stories, they just put their own politics into them.


You have the principles of drawing down, but you have no clue how to draw the characters that are there in your head and you have no clue about making it dark and moody or setting up a big twist.

That's not how drawing works. If you want realistic art, you basically have to copy stuff from other places, even if that other place is real life. If you try drawing what's in your head you get a load of nonsense that doesn't work.

[averagejoe]

]The best way to help themselves is to use the original authors backstory and if they're really new their characters too, but they should never write out of their own voice. Try writing a fanfic of something based in 3rd person and past tense in first person and present tense or vice versa. But I strongly believe a person should stop writing fanfic ASAP because not creating everything on their own will hurt them more in the long run than it will help them in the short run.

No, the best way for people to help themselves is to do what they need to do in order to write well. Quality of writing doesn't derive from the amount of differnet things you try. It mainly derives from reading good books, practice, and, to a lesser degree, knowledge of the formal aspects of writing. Writing anything will help improve your writing, and there's nothing that will neccessarily help you "more" or "less." Imitation is an important step in learning anything; you first need to learn to mimic those who are good at it (and this has analogues in everything one might care to learn) before you can learn to do it for yourself. There is no one way for writers to accomplish this, and in many cases the writer doesn't realise that their learning mimicry. Fanfiction is just the most obvious, straightforward way to accomplish this.

A certain degree of sophistication is required to create an original piece of work, and no one can go straight there. The only thing about writing fanfics that might hurt people as writiers is if they stay with it after they have surpassed themselves, and are capable of more. To use an analogy, one does not begin to learn chess by playing against a grand master playing at his full potential; any decent chess teacher doesn't play full stregth against those students who aren't ready for it. However, once one can stand on one's own, one needs to find progressively better opponents.

[Umbral_Arcanist]

Personnaly, i find Firefly to have some of the most disturbing fanfic/slash with River/Simon, River/Jayne, River/Mal, Inara/Saffron, Mal/Simon, Simon/Jayne, Kaylee/Mal pairings (and others...)

Maybe its just because every character capable of sustaining a romantic relationship has someone in the canon...

[Jerthanis]

Okay, this fight depends a lot on the terrain of the battle. The internet is Fanfiction's home turf, there are scads of them there, all at your fingertips, while any significant original fiction is a little hard to find. There are a few big archives, but not the organization structure you might find for Fanfiction. However, Fanfiction is completely powerless outside the internet, so it's unfair to have the fight there.

Fanfiction derives most of its strength from serieses which were extremely popular and had many unresolved, or unsatisfying relationship plot threads, and oftentimes a good mystery. Complicating things slightly, is the fact that some things are for some reason practically impossible to write fanfiction for... no matter how popular and full of undelivered romantic tension they are... like Miyazaki movies. So Fanfiction is extremely variable in its power, at times strong, and at times weak. Original Fiction has the strength that it does all genres with tenacity and grace, and that versatility is one of its primary advantages over the Fanfiction medium.

If that were Original Fiction's only strength in the fight, I'd say that Fanfiction could beat it up with the terrain advantage, but Original fiction has the added bonus of history, and editors... so Original Fiction takes down Fanfiction with a T.K.O. in the fourth round.


Personnaly, i find Firefly to have some of the most disturbing fanfic/slash with River/Simon, River/Jayne, River/Mal, Inara/Saffron, Mal/Simon, Simon/Jayne, Kaylee/Mal pairings (and others...)

Maybe its just because every character capable of sustaining a romantic relationship has someone in the canon...

Seriously. Since the show eventually delivered on all the interesting romantic subplots, fanfiction of that series can only go in frankly bizarre directions.

[xanaphia]

Could someone please come up with a accurate number of definitions for different catagorys of fanart please? It is getting confusing.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Could someone please come up with a accurate number of definitions for different catagorys of fanart please? It is getting confusing.

Surely fan art is just anynon-comissioned art based off over people's Intellectual Property?

[electromagnetic]

Surely fan art is just anynon-comissioned art based off over people's Intellectual Property?

No there's quite a few types. Some people specifically do fan art in anime style and turn western style cartoons or characters into anime style. You then get into the more creepy stylings of nude fanart, and then you get into even creepier stuff with tentacles and other stuff that shouldn't be discussed in polite civilization.

Fanart like fanfic has some really creepy and perverse groups in it. I completely stopped reading fanfic for three months when I read a stargate sg1 fanfic where Carter sleeps with her dad, it was a good story up to that point too.

[Indon]

Original Fiction has the strength that it does all genres with tenacity and grace, and that versatility is one of its primary advantages over the Fanfiction medium.

If that were Original Fiction's only strength in the fight, I'd say that Fanfiction could beat it up with the terrain advantage, but Original fiction has the added bonus of history, and editors... so Original Fiction takes down Fanfiction with a T.K.O. in the fourth round.


But it's already been noted that Fanfiction has heavyweights of its' own, such as Milton's Paradise Lost. Others include Milton's less-known sequel Paradise Regained, Dante's Divine Comedy (though it does have a clear self-insertion character, so okay maybe the quality isn't that high), Keats' Hyperion Cantos (admittedly, it's unfinished), And many popular works of "Reality Fanfiction" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_History).

[valadil]

I'd completely disagree. It's very, very bad practice to learn to write in someone elses style because it butchers a talented writers own voice.

I see your point, but I still think fanfic is potentially a good exercise. I'm not saying that spending five years writing Harry Potter slash is going to help anyone accomplish anything, but deliberately experimenting with someone else's voice may help you find your own. I'm suggesting emulating someone's style temporarily rather than permanently absorbing it. I feel that for one's own voice to emerge it should be battered with experiences rather than sheltered against trying anything different.

[Deepblue706]

Fan-Fic writing is a good exercise like covering another musician's songs is a good exercise. If the budding writer decides to write fan-fic of various kinds and possesses many influences, it could help them to become a better writer.

If they just copy another person's style, then obviously, they're limiting themselves.

It's quite common with music.

But, I know people who cover other people songs because they want to challenge themselves as musicians. I don't know of any writers that intentionally tried to develop their skill through fan-fic. It seems a lot of fan-fic writers just want another battle between Cloud and Sephiroth. Except, for some reason, they're self-inserted and are important to the plot.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Fan-Fic writing is a good exercise like covering another musician's songs is a good exercise.

Not really relevent. Covering a song is just performing it. A song being performed is a song, it doesn't matter who wrote it. Okay, so a cover and a fanfic are both tributes, but music is all about playing other people's songs, fiction isn't supposed to be. In music you have performers and writers and some people who do both, in writing you just have writers and uhm... publishers and editors. Buying the right to publish someone else's book, changing the font and reprinting it in a differant colour Ink may be comparable to covering a record but is nothing like fanfiction.

Fanfic writers rarely bother copying styles since most fanfic writers don't look close enough to notice them.

[Deepblue706]

Not really relevent. Covering a song is just performing it.

Look, I realize it wasn't the best analogy, but there is a point at which the writer or musician has to analyze the original artist's work if they want to "borrow it".

Covering isn't always "just performing it". Why, many bands like to put a "spin" on old songs. I know of a metal band that covered "I Ran" (Flock of Seagulls). A Fan-Fic writer is doing more than this, yes, but it's still someone else's material, and they could do this to help develop their own abilities.


A song being performed is a song, it doesn't matter who wrote it. Okay, so a cover and a fanfic are both tributes, but music is all about playing other people's songs, fiction isn't supposed to be. In music you have performers and writers and some people who do both, in writing you just have writers and uhm... publishers and editors...

Okay, but if I want to become a better guitarist, I could look up a guitar tab of another person's song and try to play it. Then, I might further challenge myself by putting it into another frame of reference. That may be more of an "adjustment" than "taking it further", but really, this was just an attempt to say "Writing Fan-Fic isn't absolutely useless". One can improve upon their writing ability without having to think up nearly as much material in doing fan-fic. That was the only thing I was trying to convey. But, I do think the idea is mostly rubbish, because...



Fanfic writers rarely bother copying styles since most fanfic writers don't look close enough to notice them.

I agree with this statement. I think I kinda went along with this in that post you quoted. "I don't know of any writers that..." Yeah.

But, I think it's plausible that a fair amount would still look, and borrow the same writing style, perhaps even unwittingly. Like a guitarist might just end up trying to copy his idol, a fan-fic writer might find themselves stealing the writing style of someone else, because they want to continue capturing an essence that lies in the story they're continuing. Or they might not, and write with absolutely no style at all.

If you still don't like my statements, let's just say I hate covers and fan-fiction and call it a day.