PDA

View Full Version : The Woeforged tank



Empyreal Dragon
2020-02-25, 11:27 PM
Hello and welcome to what I hope is the first of many fun tricks from my experience as a DM and player.

Now. For some context.

A long time ago I was in a campaign with a party I still play with to this day. And like so many long running campaigns. Something came to throw a wrench in our long term plans. A magical deck of cards. This variant deck of many things had some interesting cards, one of which summoned a max hit die T-Rex, another granted lycanthropy of the last creature you had touched. But the most crucial.

A card that bestowed vampirism upon the recipient. Not unusual in and of itself, and honestly a detriment in most cases. Only... the warforged drew the card. We had never heard of an undead warforged before. So we cracked open every sourcebook we had for info. Desperate to find some precedent. And lo and behold. Forge of war presents a note on woeforged

Woeforged are a feature within the eberron campaign setting. Strange living constructs. Identical to warforged in most regards. But healed by negative energy. Thats... all we know. Now the idea of an undead construct on it's own was wierd enough to catch my attention.

But a full on vampire warforged? That was unheard of. So we set to tinkering. How would a warforged become a vampire? What would the interaction between constructs and the template be?


After some time we came to a few conclusions, and methods to achieve this effect.

Conclusion 1. Warforged are living constructs, this subtype is not a type on its own, and is thus not lost when gaining the template, and since the subtype specifically Grants constitution, one would retain this as an undead. *cue shock. Possible argument.*

Conclusion 2. On their own, warforged do not possess the potential to rise as most forms of undead. However... warforged are vulnerable to means of becoming no less than 6 different types through magic, or class choices.

Conclusion 3, if a warforged is changed into another type, the precedent exists for them to become undead like creatures, therefore, a warforged of a type able to become undead should be able to recieve an undead template.



Methodology 1, greater humanoid essence, from eberron campaign setting, is available to both artificers, and clerics, as a 6th level infusion, and 7th level spell respectively. It is susceptible to metamagic. And the depths of persistomancy have been plumbed in far greater detail than necessary for this.

A persistent extended GHE, gives a 48 hour window. During this 48 hours, a warforged of sufficiently high level, slain or exposed to vampirism in some fashion has the chance to rise as a standard, shadow, or savage vampire.



Methodology 2, abberate, from book of vile darkness, available as a 1st level spell to sorcerers, wizards, and spell thieves, renders the target the aberration type, warforged are living creatures and thus vulnerable to this spell. This allows the warforged to acquire monstrous vampire from ghostwalk.



Methodology 3, Essence of the Dragon, same as the first two, for dragon type, producing vampiric dragon potential.


Methodology 4, dragon disciple for a more permanent dragon type


Methodology 5, aberrant paragon, same as 4 but for abberration.


Whatever the methodology used,

The recipient gains the living construct subtype, and undead type,

Newly create woeforged, dubbed twisted gears in our campaign to differentiate negative energy warforged from actual undead template warforged, have a list of staggering and lovely abilities.

As warforged they are still available to take warforged juggernaut. The benefits in spite of some redundancy are delightful.


Immunity to poison, diseases both magical or not, sleep, sleep effects, fatigue, exhaustion,

He cannot be sickened, stunned or paralyzed

He is immune to ability damage, energy drain, negative energy, critical hits, mind effecting effects, death effects, and necromancy based effects.

And cannot take non-lethal damage.


The original character used had the following setup at the end.

Warforged, vampire, vampire lord, swarmshifter, hivenest, spellstitched.

Pugilist fighter 6, barbarian 1, juggernaut 5, Vampire +8 LA

Feats
Flaw:Jaws of Death
Flaw: Second Slam
Level 1: Adamantine Body
Antibonus2:Power Attack
Level 3:Improved Sunder
Antibonus4:leap attack
Fighter 4:improved bullrush
Antibonus6:Shock Trooper
Level 6: Combat Brute
Antibonus8:Knockback
Level 9:battle jump
Antibonus10:Mage Slayer
Level 12:Pierce magical Protection
Warforged juggernaut (Greater) powerful charge
Antibonus12:steadfast determination
Vampire:alertness
Vampire:Combat reflexes
Vampire:Dodge
Vampire:Improved Initiative
Vampire:Lightning Reflexes
Vampire:Iron Will
Vampire:Leadership

Strength 35
Dexterity 31
Constitution 27
Intelligence 36
Wisdom 44
Charisma 32


I hope you all enjoyed this exploration into a theoretical and silly idea.

StevenC21
2020-02-26, 01:10 AM
This is wrong. From the vampire template:

"Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to undead (augmented humanoid or monstrous humanoid)".

Note that the subtype also changes. Not "is added", changes. Thus it loses living construct traits.

In addition, from the SRD, on Subtypes:

"A creature with the augmented subtype usually has the traits of its current type, but the features of its original type."

The Warforged living construct traits are, well, traits. So they are lost upon applying vampirism, if you somehow could.

Very neat idea, flawed execution. Still, definitely some hope here. Keep looking for interesting rules interactions, I'm sure you'll find some real good stuff.

Empyreal Dragon
2020-02-26, 02:31 AM
FIRST thank you for responding. I almost thought this would not get any response.


This is wrong. From the vampire template:

"Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to undead (augmented humanoid or monstrous humanoid)".

Note that the subtype also changes. Not "is added", changes. Thus it loses living construct traits.

Yes. Type becomes undead(augmented humanoid) however, other templates that change type like that do not cause you to lose other subtypes. Shapechanger, incarnum, psionic, alignment subtypes, dragonblood, human subtype.

For this reason I believe the warforged would retain the living construct subtype. As other templates and example creatures do not lose their subtypes. So a warforged vampire would be an Undead (augmented humanoid, living construct)




In addition, from the SRD, on Subtypes:

"A creature with the augmented subtype usually has the traits of its current type, but the features of its original type."

The Warforged living construct traits are, well, traits. So they are lost upon applying vampirism, if you somehow could.

This is true, but subtype traits are in edition to the traits of your regular type. So the aforementioned type block would have both undead traits and living construct traits.


Very neat idea, flawed execution. Still, definitely some hope here. Keep looking for interesting rules interactions, I'm sure you'll find some real good stuff.

The execution may be flawed if con is not retained. But i did mention it could be argued. However. The stacked redundancy of vampire with juggernaut still produces a staggeringly powerful entity with a near comprehensive list of immunities. On the particular character, his pugilist levels also grant him the ability that he only accrues non-lethal damage. Which stacks nicely with immunity to non-lethal. Rendering him immune not only to raw damage, but also the vast majority of save or lose effects.


All in all I think either interpretation of how they interact produces a spectacularly powerful tank build.

TristanS
2020-02-27, 08:26 AM
There are general and specific rules - here, the subtype is lost.

Similar to the Elder Eidolon template - some "wipe the slate clean" so to speak, and some don't.