Superheroics: A Weekly E6 Playground

[Zonugal]

Superheroics: A Weekly E6 Playground

The purpose of this thread is to act as a communal marketplace of brainstorming in adapting characters from superhero literature into D&D 3.5 via the E6 rules variant sub-system.

I think it would be fun if, every week, a new character was suggested and we had some fun thinking about how we may model them within six levels and a bucket of feats.

Characters Discussed:
-- Iron Man (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24380216&postcount=2)
-- Wonder Woman (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24401106&postcount=23)

[Zonugal]

Iron Man
https://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l2pjqaSzub1qz7l8eo1_1280.jpg
"Is it better to be feared or respected?" I say, is it too much to ask for both?"

For the first week, I'm throwing the genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist into the mix. How would you model Tony Stark in the E6 system? Let's presume that LA buy-off, as laid out within the E6 sub-system, is available. Lets also start off with giving our version of Tony Stark fifteen "epic feats."

Off the top of my head, five levels of Artificer seem like a solid idea, with the last level being a bit more open to me. Thematically the Renegade Mastermaker prestige class makes a lot of sense, but I feel it doesn't offer a whole lot as the last level of the build. Anything with a BaB of +1 will grant us a BaB of +4, which opens up some more options for combat feats.

What do you folks think? How would you approach this particular build?

[Batcathat]

Is the idea only to build Tony Stark himself or his armor(s) as well?

[Zonugal]

Is the idea only to build Tony Stark himself or his armor(s) as well?

Initially I'm thinking just the build itself.

What are you thinking?

[rel]

I think the main points you'd want to hit are:
making gadgets, a spiffy suit of armour, flight, energy blasts.

artificer seems like a good start.
Maybe go with wands for the energy blasts or warforged to represent the armour?

[Zonugal]

I think the main points you'd want to hit are:
making gadgets, a spiffy suit of armour, flight, energy blasts.

artificer seems like a good start.
Maybe go with wands for the energy blasts or warforged to represent the armour?

I think focusing on wands is a good choice!

Regarding making Tony Stark a Warforged though, I have reservations... I'd prefer if he stayed Human, keeping Warforged for characters like Vision and/or Red-Tornado.

[liquidformat]

So I have actually been milling over doing a similar Superhero themed group but been dragging my feet so super glad to see this. I think one important thing to start with is identifying what are important goals to meet to achieve the superhero. In this case Rel seems to have it right: making gadgets, a spiffy suit of armor, flight, energy blasts.

Also it should be identified what "epic feats" means for this competition as there are some argument of what that covers for E6...

[Zonugal]

Also it should be identified what "epic feats" means for this competition as there are some argument of what that covers for E6...

Oh, my bad.

To clarify, "epic feats" (as I'm using them) in the context of E6 are simply every feat taken after 6th level.

Is there perhaps a better term/label, as to avoid mixing them up with the epic feats from the Epic Level Handbook?

[daremetoidareyo]

Binding savnok with the improved binding feat can nab some armor on command

[Zonugal]

Would perhaps Warblade be a good last level for such a build?

I just don't see any phenomenal reason to grab a sixth level in Artificer.

I really like the thematics of Renegade Mastermaker but I'm still torn on its first level abilities. Is the ability to use infusions on a battle fist super useful?

[liquidformat]

Oh, my bad.

To clarify, "epic feats" (as I'm using them) in the context of E6 are simply every feat taken after 6th level.

Is there perhaps a better term/label, as to avoid mixing them up with the epic feats from the Epic Level Handbook?

probably just calling them 'Extra Feats' is fine, I was talking more about the expanded feats like ability training, Stone to Flesh and so forth that crop up as level 6 feats in E6 (https://esix.pbworks.com/f/E6v041.pdf).

Yeah warblade is probably a good choice that gives a bit of versatility though would have to think through what stances and maneuvers are appropriate for Tony. I don't think Renegade mastermaker makes sense for Tony stark period, if we were talking about say Forge from the X-Men I would whole heartedly agree but the PRC is just wrong for Tony Stark.

I am thinking Human Artificer 5/Warblade1 is probably the way to go will see about making a build when I have some down time.

[Gruftzwerg]

Imho Warlock 6 is the way to go. Maybe Warforged for the armor fluff, but that could be fluffed with magic armor for any other race too.

Warlock gives anything you need:

Eldritch Blast/Spear
The ray weapon that IM is using.

DR/cold iron
While cold iron is not the best DR it still helps to fluff the armor of IM.

Entropic Warding
Chance to deflect ranged projectiles and ray attacks.

Leaps and Bounds
Represents the agility IM has.

Deceive Item
Very important skill for IM. He has the wealth to get to the knowledge to build/wield items of high power (wands and other obscure magic items). Use a glove of wands to access em on need. This can helps to get things like the healing ability via spells.

Fell Flight
For obvious reasons^^

Finally with Deceive Item and optimized UMD skill you will start to exploit your magical wands to make more profit than you should for your character lvl (Tony Stark has a big wealthy company IIRC^^). With all the money and the magic resources you try to buy/trade up to 3 Psychoactive Skins to get the most armor fluff xD

edit: I'm not so firm with E6. Is there any way to get the warlock lvl 12 ability so that the build could craft items? That would totally nail the build for IM/Tony Stark imho.

[Zonugal]

Yeah warblade is probably a good choice that gives a bit of versatility though would have to think through what stances and maneuvers are appropriate for Tony.

Diamond Mind would probably work well, if flavored as Tony's suit processing the different maneuvers for him.

[liquidformat]

see my post above for E6 rules depending on how the rules are adjudicated you might be able to get a couple more crafting skills...

[Ramza00]

This is not a full build and I recommend someone else take up this further. This is just throwing spaghetti together as a group activity. But Aegis works well for Iron Man and it multiclasses with the Student of the Astral Suit where your 3rd level Aegis with 3 levels in another class gets a level 6 astral suit with 9 customization points. A customization point being worth half a feat to full feat depending on what you spend it on.

Oh this is Pathfinder and specifically 3rd party Dreamscarred press the maker of Psionics and Path of War (aka tome of battle sequel) in Pathfinder.

————

The other side of the 3 levels should be some form of Path of War Initiator.

Aegis 3 / X 1 / Y 1 / Z 1 gives you an Initiator Level of 5 in 1 classes, with a 2nd class getting an IL of 3 if Y or Z taking the Practiced Initiator trait.

Aegis 4 / X 1 / Y 1 gives you the augment suit option where you spend a standard action and a PP to gain another maneuver.

Focus then on ranged attacks with Elemental Flux, Solar Wind, Tempest Gale. For example there is an elemental fox 3rd level stance that gives +2d6 to all your attacks as elemental damage.

You can craft those gloves of endless javelins in e6 taking about 1/4th the wealth. With 6 BAB and lots of feats you can throw 2 javelins, throw 2 more with TWF, throw another one with rapid shot, and maybe get a 6th in if an ally casts haste. Since gloves of endless javelins is force damage it ignores damage reduction. There is a boost if you need to bypass the elemental resistance. Leaving most of your other maneuvers free for more utility, counters, or things to do with standard actions instead of full attacks. Oh that elemental flux (stance 3rd level) that boosts your damage by 2d6... it also gives you improved initiative that stacks with the feat, or fast healing, or damage reduction 5/adamantine, or +2 to your saves.

So yeah you can emulate iron man real well in pathfinder e6.

[Gruftzwerg]

see my post above for E6 rules depending on how the rules are adjudicated you might be able to get a couple more crafting skills...

the problem with warlock crafting is, that you need "Imbue Item" which you normally get at lvl 12. Without that you can't fake with UMD "that you know a certain spell in regards for crafting". I'm not aware of any regular Epic Feats that would give you something similar. But I'll have a look into epic feats, since I barely use em. Maybe I'll find something.

[Zonugal]

I am thinking Human Artificer 5/Warblade1 is probably the way to go will see about making a build when I have some down time.

Just an idea I had but what about Artificer 5/Incarnate 1?

Reflavor soulmelds as gadgets & gear?

Is a one level dip into Incarnate a viable choice for this kind of build? Is it better than Warblade?

[rel]

If you want to use wands to represent energy blasts then a source of extra damage would be useful.
Maybe artificer 5, scout 1?

You can wear medium armour and even enchant it to represent your suit.

You need flight so an item (or maybe a wand) is probably the way to go

Energy blasts are coming from your wands possibly held in wand compartments in your gauntlets (and an additional one on your armour spikes to represent the unibeam)

and you're an artificer and int based so making things and being smart are covered.

If you take the good wand related feats and maybe some metamagic You can fly around and apply skirmish to your wand attacks. and if neccessary you can infuse your fists and punch on as well.

[BlackOnyx]

Though it might not fit the "item creator" slot *quite* as well as Artificer, I'd actually posit that the Erudite class from Complete Psionic (a more "wizardly" psion variant) might actually be a viable candidate as well.

To elaborate:

- Refluff "psionic energy" as "nanotech," and you've actually got a pretty solid analogue for Tony Stark and the later iterations of the ironman suit.

- Lore-wise, psionics seems to have a strong "long lost future-tech" sort of vibe (see Ilithid lore, for example).

- Psi points serve as a very concrete and measurable energy source, an analogue to Stark's own arc reactor.

- Erudite, as opposed to the standard psion, gives a PC the potential to learn powers up to 2nd level from any discipline.

- Intelligence as a primary casting stat.

- As spontaneous "casters," psions are great at capturing the "on-the-fly" situation assessment & adaptation that Stark exemplifies. Most energy oriented attacks (energy ray, energy push, etc.) can be adapted at a moment's notice for energy type, save DC, and overall damage potential.

- Metapsionic feats for even further "on-the-fly" adaptation.

- The psion's psicrystal serves as an excellent analogue for a control AI.

- Inertial Armor as an AC bonus that increases with ML.

- Astral Construct, a first level shaper power, is versatile enough to create a wide array of temporary "empty ironman suits" that "psion Stark" can call in to assist him at a moment's notice.

- In concert, Levitation and Control Air could *potentially* approximate flight. (More graceful solutions might exist.)

- Catfall for dramatic "ironman suit catches you just before you hit the ground" situations.

- Mindlink for all your communication needs across virtually any distance.

- Clairvoyant Sense in lieu of drones/security hacking for intelligence gathering.

- Psychoportive Shelter to serve as a heavy-security, mobile workshop.

- Craft Universal Item, Craft Dorje, Craft Psionic Arms and Armor and Imprint Stone to create contingencies for emergency situations. (Power Stones would be of particular use to erudites, as they can only manifest a limited number of unique powers daily.)

- As mentioned earlier in the thread, a number of psychoactive skins, though expensive, could emulate the nanotech version of Stark's suit. (Skins of the Chameleon, Claw, and Defender are all ML 5th or less, if your table plays with CL/ML restrictions in E6.)

[liquidformat]

Here is a build I was working on earlier for Tony:
Human Artificer 6
Feats: Point Blank Shot [HB], Heroic Spirit [L1], Precise Shot [L3], Skill Focus (Use Magic Device) [L6], Reckless Wand Wielder [B1], Extraordinary Artisan [B2], Legendary Artisan [B3], Cull Wand Essence [B4], Rapid Infusion [B5], Wand Surge [B6], Improved Homunculus [B7], Craft Construct [B8], Two-Weapon Fighting [B9], Double Wand Wielder [B10], Attune Magic Weapon [B11], Ability Training (Cha) [B12], Ability Training (Dex) [B13], Ability Advancement (Cha) [B14], Ability Advancement (Dex) [B15].

Assumption made: Action Points will be refreshed in each ‘epic level up’
Thoughts on build: The bonus/epic feats are in no particular order, the idea is to give some extra power to wand abilities, also adding in Improved Homunculus for little robot helpers for tony and Craft Construct to represent autonomous suites.
Overall I think Articifer 6 is a good level, you gain +1 to all saves and bab as well as craft wand feat.

[Zonugal]

This is what I have initially for a rough draft of a build to be designed later.

Anthony Stark
Middle-Aged Human Artificer 4/Warblade 1/Artificer 1
Str 10, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 20, Wis 9, Cha 14
Maneuvers: Action Before Thought, Emerald Razor, Moment of Perfect Mind
Feats
Apprentice (Craftsman) [H], Mercantile Background [1st], Extraordinary Artisan [3rd], Legendary Artisan [6th]
Armor Proficiency (Heavy) [E1], Heavy Armor Optimization [E2], Craft Wand [E3], Reckless Wand Wielder [E4], Wandstrike [E5], Craft Construct [E6], Cull Wand Essence [E7], Explosive Spell [E8], Maximize Spell [E9], Sculpt Spell [E10], Spell Focus (Evocation) [E11], Greater Spell Focus (Evocation) [E12], Skill Focus (Use Magical Device) [E13], Energy Substitution (Fire) [E14], Blistering Spell [E15]

Additional feats to round out the character:
-- Boosting Skills
---- Magical Aptitude
---- Skill Focus (Concentration)
---- Steady Concentration
---- Blade Meditation
-- Boosting Skills & Status (these three help lower the cost of creating magic items)
---- Favored in Guild (Arcane)
---- Leadership
---- Guildmaster (Arcane)
-- Boosting Skills & Status (these two help us qualify for Construct Grafter)
---- Favored (Arcane)
---- Primary Contact (Arcane)
-- Crafting
---- Magical Artisan (Scribe Scroll)
---- Magical Artisan (Brew Potion)
---- Magical Artisan (Craft Arms & Armor)
---- Magical Artisan (Craft Wondrous Item)
---- Magical Artisan (Craft Wand)
---- Construct Grafter (so he can build his iron-heart [and other inventions])
---- Craft Rune Circle
-- J.A.R.V.I.S.
---- Wild Talent
---- Psicrystal Affinity
-- Miscellaneous
---- Appraise Magical Value
---- Insightful Reflexes
---- Investigate
---- Research
---- Resourceful Buyer

He'll ended up with a Use Magical Device of around +19 (23 with scrolls due to synergy bonuses) and Concentration also at +19 (which he'll use to great effect with Diamond Mind maneuvers).

Thoughts?

[liquidformat]

Shall we move to the next superhero?

[Zonugal]

Shall we move to the next superhero?

Sure thing!

Wonder Woman
https://i.ibb.co/3BKVHxT/Wonder-Woman.jpg
“We have a saying, my people. Don’t kill if you can wound, don’t wound if you can subdue, don’t subdue if you can pacify, and don’t raise your hand at all until you’ve first extended it.”

For the second superhero, I'm suggesting Princess Diana of Themyscira. How would you model Wonder Woman in the E6 system? Let's presume that LA buy-off, as laid out within the E6 sub-system, is available.

Class-wise I think maybe the first levels in Barbarian (as to grab something like Whirling Frenzy & Pounce) and then four levels of Warblade?

Race-wise, part of my thinks the Elves would be good substitutes for the Amazons. But I also think that Lesser Aasimar and one level (or even two) in the Half-Celestial transition class (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040319a) might be worth the lower point-buy offerings.

What do you folks think? How would you approach this particular build?

[liquidformat]

So I think it is important to identify what abilities we wanting her to have, one article gave her the following: superhuman strength and durability (both assets during big battles); the power of flight (she can glide through the air on currents in the wind); superhuman speed, reflexes, and agility; finally, enhanced senses, including smell, vision, and hearing.

Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Woman#Abilities) gives a breakdown of abilities based on which version we are talking about. It might also be good if we define what we mean by superhuman ability scores, is that simply having over 18 in a score or is it over 19 because of the ability score increase at level 4. Also should we standardize on a point buy?

[Gruftzwerg]

So I think it is important to identify what abilities we wanting her to have, one article gave her the following: superhuman strength and durability (both assets during big battles); the power of flight (she can glide through the air on currents in the wind); superhuman speed, reflexes, and agility; finally, enhanced senses, including smell, vision, and hearing.

Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Woman#Abilities) gives a breakdown of abilities based on which version we are talking about. It might also be good if we define what we mean by superhuman ability scores, is that simply having over 18 in a score or is it over 19 because of the ability score increase at level 4. Also should we standardize on a point buy?

Sounds to me like ToB, Swordsage maybe? I mean, you can get most of the fuff there like scent and ranks in spot (cross class..), listen & tumble skills. + some fancy maneuvers. At lvl 5 you could pick up Leaping Dragon Stance to get +10 on jumps and are always considered running.
Wis to AC and maybe Combat Reflexes to emulate the enhanced combat senses.

I think most of the fluff is here.

[rel]

Wonder Woman is a flying brick but that's practically the standard for super heroes.

ToB, barb and the like are good options; Exceptional warrior training is a somewhat more unique part of her powerset.

I think a good way to really differentiate wonder woman is to focus on the lasso. Maybe some of the whip based fighting styles or just re-flavored ToB maneuvers

[Zonugal]

So I think it is important to identify what abilities we wanting her to have

When I think of Wonder Woman I think of a pure combat machine. Like, Batman is the king of skills and Superman has all of his powers but Wonder Woman's thing is that she's been fighting monsters for thousands of years. She's really really good at fighting, in addition to being bestowed with superhuman gifts (strength, speed, durability). I don't think he need to give her the power of flight (it'll be difficult in E6 to do so and it allows us to give her a version of her invisible plane).

So, to capture that, I think the trick is getting her a list of powerful defensive racial-traits, a strong combat-chassis for her build, and then improve her ability scores via magic items.


It might also be good if we define what we mean by superhuman ability scores, is that simply having over 18 in a score or is it over 19 because of the ability score increase at level 4.

I think anything past 18 is in the realm of superhuman ability scores.


Also should we standardize on a point buy?

Yeah, sure.

I've been going off the variant's system where you can buy-off a level adjustment for a reduced point buy allotement:

LA +0 -- 32
LA +1 -- 25
LA +2 -- 18
LA +3 -- 10
LA +4 -- 00


Sounds to me like ToB, Swordsage maybe?

My only problem with Swordsage is that you don't reach BaB +6 with it, and I really want Wonder Woman to have the combat tactical feats (which all have a prerequisite of BaB +6).


I think a good way to really differentiate wonder woman is to focus on the lasso. Maybe some of the whip based fighting styles or just re-flavored ToB maneuvers

Book of Exalted Deeds has rules for the lasso, I just wonder if ToB maneuvers would work with it as its a ranged weapon...

[liquidformat]

Here is my first crack at Wonder Woman.

The Amazonian Princess
Human Barbarian 2/Crusader 4
ACF: City Brawler, Spirit Lion Totem, Wolf Totem
Feats: Wolf Berserker [HB], Eotic Weapon Proficiency (Lasso) [L1], Improved Unarmed Strike[B1], Two-Weapon Fighting[B1], Improved Trip[B2], Extra Granted Maneuver [L3], Superior Unarmed Strike[L6], Snap Kick[Bo1], Stone Power[Bo2], Shards of Granite[Bo3], Improved Two-Weapon Fighting[Bo4], Extra Rage[Bo5], Knockdown[Bo6], Ability Training (Con)[Bo7], Ability Training (Str)[Bo8], Combat Reflexes[Bo9], Ability Advancement (Con)[Bo10], Ability Advancement (Str)[Bo11], Open Least Chakra (Feet)[Bo12], Shape Soulmeld (Airstep Sandals) [Bo13], Bonus Essentia [Bo14], Bonus Essentia [Bo15].
Maneuvers: Revitalizing Strike Strike, Martial Spirit, Mountain Hammer, White Raven Tactics, Bone Crusher
Stances: Martial Spirit, Thicket of Blades

Equipment (not exhaustive): Mithril Lasso, +1 Dastana of Arrow Deflection, Mithril Breastplate, BruteGauntlets, Healing Belt
Assumptions/comments: playing a little fast and loose with maneuvers/Stances since it is reasonable you would get to trade some of them out during the 15 bonus feat levels. Going with a hard hitting IUS/tripping with 30' lasso range and using Airstep Sandals for the flying. Lasso can be found in BoED.

[rel]

Book of Exalted Deeds has rules for the lasso, I just wonder if ToB maneuvers would work with it as its a ranged weapon...

Probably not, ToB has no ranged support beyond throwing your weapon at people. At least we know how to build Captain America when the time comes :p

I'd say take a whip or a spiked chain or something to represent the lasso and build for trip and / or disarm which in my opinion represents superlative fighting skills better than just hitting people in the face.

As I look through the maneuvers I can see that re-fluffing is pretty tricky without homebrew. I forgot how much is worked into the mechanics.
I think I'd go with <something> and swordsage and cherry pick maneuvers that really fit the theme instead of going for the most powerful stuff. Then use all the extra e6 feats to get your fighting style feat chains.

Alternatively you could take one of the classes with a better recovery mechanic then use martial study to grab some more appropriate maneuvers.

Completely forgot the bracers and parrying projectiles. That's a definite signiature ability. Gotta include that.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Wonder Woman's reaction speed is also stupidly fast. I mean, parrying bullets kind of makes that obvious, but that's really the low end of what she's capable of. The high end is parrying thousands of small projectiles in a couple of seconds, each of which was moving thousands of times the speed of light, from all directions towards a person that wasn't her (so she was also moving around that person).

Obviously you can't do that in E6, but Improved Initiative at least should make an appearance. Maybe Lightning Reflexes, too.

[Zonugal]

I'll have her feat chains finished in a day or so, but this is what I have for her initial stat-block/build.

Princess Diana of Themyscira
Female 2nd-level Half-Celestial Lesser Aasimar, 2nd-Level Barbarian/4th-level Warblade
Str 16, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 12
Racial Features: Darkvision (60 ft.), Natural Armor +1, Disease Immunity, Poison Resistance, Acid/Cold,Electricity Resistance 5, Spell Resistance (6), Damage Reduction 5/Magic, Natural Weapons as Magic Weapons (for the purpose of bypassing the damage reduction of other creatures), & Smite Evil (1/day; +6 dmg)
Spell-like Abilities (CL 6): Aid (1/day; DC 13), Bless (1/day; DC 12), Cure Serious Wounds (1/day; DC 14), Detect Evil (1/day; DC 12), & Protection From Evil (3/day; DC 12),
Class Features: Ferocity, Pounce, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Battle Clarity, Weapon Aptitude, & Battle Ardor
-- Maneuvers: Bonecrusher, Claw At the Moon, Iron Heart Surge, Mighty Throw, Mountain Hammer, Shield Block, & Steely Strike
-- Stances: Crushing Weight of the Mountain, Hunter’s Sense, Leaping Dragon Stance, Martial Spirit, Roots of the Mountain, Step of Wind, & Thicket of Blades

[rel]

So, do we want to try building more superheroes or what?

[liquidformat]

I would be up for more!

[Zonugal]

So, do we want to try building more superheroes or what?

I would be up for more!

Let's keep at it them.

Dr. Doom

https://i.ibb.co/s9hbHJy/Dr-Doom.jpg

“My methods are a means to an end, no different than pruning weeds in order to let an orchid flourish. Those who stand in the way of my vision oppose me because they fear me, but more than that they fear what I represent. Change. Do you know what I despise Richards? And T'Challa? Because never one have they reined in their own self-righteous arrogance long enough to try and see what I see. Never once have they asked me: why? Do you want to know?Love. Measure my crimes against what mankind does to itself, and I am a saint. ... I have looked into the future, I have seen how one violent action after another spins the world toward a future where all that remains of Earth is a burned out cinder. Every time I have looked into the future, that is what I have seen. Every time but one. In one possible future mankind becomes united. Cures for all diseases are found. Global conflict ends. Hunger is abolished. Education is universal. And no one goes without. In that world, there are laws. To break even the slightest of these is to suffer immediate and terminal punishment. ... Ten thousand futures have I looked at. A hundred thousand. And in only one does mankind finally unite, and flourish...and survive. Only one. Doomworld”

For the third super-powered character, I'm suggesting Victor von Doom, Monarch of Latveria. How would you model Doctor Doom in the E6 system? Let's presume that LA buy-off, as laid out within the E6 sub-system, is available.

Class-wise I think maybe five levels in Archivist and then one last level in Warlock?

What do you folks think? How would you approach this particular build?

[liquidformat]

So looking through some wikis Dr Doom has genius level intellect which probably means 16-18, technopathy (would fit with artificer?), Energy absorption/projection, mind transference, and demonic summoning all via dark mysticism/sorcery (sounds decent for wizard/warlock/sorcerer), then his armor has powers too superhuman strength, blasting guantlets, flight, forcefield, and other high-tech weapons and gadgets. Some other places he has healing powers, teleportation, time travel, banishment, spell reversing and so fourth. Wizard/warlock, artificer/warlock, sorcerer/warlock, straight wizard, or maybe even psion or Archivist could be interesting. Will have to think this over, he is a goofy choice but I think him wearing armor while being able to cast spells is important.

[daremetoidareyo]

So looking through some wikis Dr Doom has genius level intellect which probably means 16-18, technopathy (would fit with artificer?), Energy absorption/projection, mind transference, and demonic summoning all via dark mysticism/sorcery (sounds decent for wizard/warlock/sorcerer), then his armor has powers too superhuman strength, blasting guantlets, flight, forcefield, and other high-tech weapons and gadgets. Some other places he has healing powers, teleportation, time travel, banishment, spell reversing and so fourth. Wizard/warlock, artificer/warlock, sorcerer/warlock, straight wizard, or maybe even psion or Archivist could be interesting. Will have to think this over, he is a goofy choice but I think him wearing armor while being able to cast spells is important.

Spellfire wielder on an artificer chassis?

[rel]

how about psionics for the armour + magic angle?

[Zonugal]

Hmm... What if we attempted to do some Magical Training & Precocious Apprentice shenanigans for Doom?

He is exactly the type of character who would use loop-holes to expand his arcane power.

[liquidformat]

Hmm... What if we attempted to do some Magical Training & Precocious Apprentice shenanigans for Doom?

He is exactly the type of character who would use loop-holes to expand his arcane power.

that gives me a comically good idea will see if I can pull it off though...

[dude123nice]

So am I the only one who thinks that Wonder Woman doesn't fit into E6 at all? In many stories, she's basically just discount Superman, in terms of power, and that's already WAAAY above the level of heroic fantasy.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

So am I the only one who thinks that Wonder Woman doesn't fit into E6 at all? In many stories, she's basically just discount Superman, in terms of power, and that's already WAAAY above the level of heroic fantasy.

Dr. Doom is much the same honestly, being the second most powerful magic user in the world (or was it universe?) after Dr. Strange (and the second smartest, after Reed Richards).

[liquidformat]

So am I the only one who thinks that Wonder Woman doesn't fit into E6 at all? In many stories, she's basically just discount Superman, in terms of power, and that's already WAAAY above the level of heroic fantasy.

Depends which superman we are talking about. Golden Age superman is well beyond epic level god, yet if we look at the one from the 80s or smallville superman then he is well within the E6 range. That is why I think it is very important to identify what the bar is for any of these super hero characters. Also if you look at the original Wonder Woman it was a BDSM comic based around a woman who looses all her powers when she is restrained by a man... So I guess you could add in some homebrew flaws and make her fall pretty well within E6 territory...

[Zonugal]

So am I the only one who thinks that Wonder Woman doesn't fit into E6 at all? In many stories, she's basically just discount Superman, in terms of power, and that's already WAAAY above the level of heroic fantasy.

You bring up a good point.

Perhaps we ought to do Superman soon...

[Zonugal]

Depends which superman we are talking about. Golden Age superman is well beyond epic level god, yet if we look at the one from the 80s or smallville superman then he is well within the E6 range. That is why I think it is very important to identify what the bar is for any of these super hero characters. Also if you look at the original Wonder Woman it was a BDSM comic based around a woman who looses all her powers when she is restrained by a man... So I guess you could add in some homebrew flaws and make her fall pretty well within E6 territory...

We'll get to him soon but Golden Age Superman is a very good baseline for bringing him into E6.

You might have been thinking of Silver Age Superman, who would have to be modeled as a god in D&D.

Some of Silver Age Superman's great feats:


-- A sneeze from Superman destroyed an entire solar system.
-- Superman was so powerful that he could easily move a star with just his breath.
-- He could close a Boom-Tube with his bare hands.
-- He was able to eat molten metal.
-- Superman toyed around with an enraged Hulk like he was a child in a crossover.
-- He could move the entire Earth like a ping-pong ball.
-- He was able to fly at such speeds, that he could enter hyperspace effortlessly.
-- Superman was so powerful that he could alter time itself without even trying.
-- He was able to travel trillions of miles in seconds without exerting any effort at all.
-- He easily threw a neutron star several light years away. He claimed that the star weighed Trillions of tons and that it exerted a magnetic pull greater then dozens of Supernovas, but this didn’t affect him in the slightest.
-- Superman threw moon-sized balls of ice at the Earth, when all of its oceans had been dried up.
-- He was able to fly through the time barrier and go millions of years into the past on a whim.
-- Supes brushed off the explosion of a nuclear warhead which could have vaporized the entire East coast.
-- Clark could move so fast that he appeared invisible.
-- With the sword in his hand, Supeman's cape deflected the most powerful blast that King Kosmos could muster. It was a blast that could have altered reality itself, yet it was blocked by Superman’s clothing.
-- Superman (after nearly killing King Kosmos out of anger) decided that this sword, which was present at the dawn of time, could not be controlled as a seperate entity, so at this point he actually started to merge with the sword. Superman remarked that it had power which he had never felt. Before Superman completely merged himself with infinity (the sword), he stopped just as he got to its hilt, and decided that he no longer needed to merge with the sword, so he threw the remainder of it into deep space. The reason for this is that, in the midst of fusing with the sword, he heard a godly voice (either Jor-El or God himself), and this voice spoke of Superman's greatness. “Your greatness among living things is assured. So shall it EVER be”. Had Superman merged with this sword, he would have become one with all of the universe.
-- Superman displayed his super-intellect by learning a long dead, yet incredibly sophisticated language (which he had never heard before); instantly.
-- Superman caught meteorites, and moved around planet-sized asteroids effortlessly.
-- Not even the Flash was swift enough to punch Superman.
-- The Guardians sent Superman on a special mission to preserve the Galactic Balance of Nature. Superman was not at full power during this event, as the part of the Galaxy he flew through was full of red stars. Despite this, Superman was still strong enough to make a small planet by fusing meteorites together, and then proceeded to move it.
-- Superman intercepted a bomb that was meant to destroy the Earth and wasn’t harmed at all.
-- A Supernova only dazed Superman for a microsecond. He then found himself in an unknown solar system and proceeded to drill his way to the center of a planet.
-- Superman could actually create a tiny version of himself, an avatar so to speak, which was endowed with all of his powers (but he loses his powers if he does so).
-- Superman one time defeated the Galactic Golem. The Galactic Golem is the monstrous result of Lex Luthor’s attempt to create life by collecting galactic matter into the form of a man. Infusing his creation with a hunger for the hyper-stellar energy that made its creation possible. During this battle Superman uses the Golem’s own energy-radiation to speed up his vibrations and shift every living thing on the Earth to another dimensional plane.
-- Superman balanced a replica of the Empire State building with just his pinky.
-- Superman’s Fortress of Solitude contained an entire solar system that he created by himself.
-- Kryptonians could travel between universes at will.
-- Superman and Power Girl easily defeated creatures that had conquered entire worlds.
-- Maaldor, a powerful cosmic being who had existed for billions of years and conquered an entire universe, refered to Superman and Power Girl as the two most powerful beings in the multiverse. He tries to kill Power Girl, then Superman fought him, narration stated that Maaldor shrugged off attacks that could reduce a planet to rubble, and replied with attacks that had been used for just that purpose. Superman was fine, and it turned out that Power Girl survived.
-- Superman and Power Girl tricked Maaldor into confronting his own soul which caused him to self-destruct and create an entire new universe from the remains of his energy. Superman sealed off that universe from the rest of the multiverse with his heat vision.
-- A rogue Superboy robot grabbed Superman and flew him thousands of miles into space in a fraction of a second, then flung him faster than light across the solar system. He couldn't turn around until he reaches Uranus, but he still got back in only a matter of minutes.
-- Superman contained a nuclear bomb with his cape.
-- Superman contained a supernova explosion.
-- Was only knocked back slightly by a gravitational force that could move a planet.
-- Used some extra energy to reignite a dying Sun.
-- Casually flew past galaxies in seconds.
-- Superman moved a star with his breath.
-- Superman turned a piece of coal into a diamond by altering it’s molecular pattern.
-- Fired a beam of heat hotter than the sun from his own eyes which is capable of starting up stars, and even sealing holes within reality.
-- Could move stars and planets with his super-breath. And could also freeze planets and stars alike with it.

https://i.ibb.co/Z2zHsDh/Silver-Age-Superman-Strength.jpg

[dude123nice]

We'll get to him soon but Golden Age Superman is a very good baseline for bringing him into E6.


Can't help but feel like you're just making fun of people and not taking this seriously at all. I'm not familiar with comics, but I assume that Golden age superman is roughly equivalent in power to his appearances in the DC animated series or in Man of Steel. Those things feel like they fit into E6? Seriously? When E6 was literally created by extrapolating a human's capabilities in heroic fantasy stories? Where humans are only slightly more powerful than what the peak of a real human is? How is this comparable to the Superman in those series? A lot of the abilities they use would put 4th level spells to shame, and they have quite a few of those abilities to them. Characters like Cap. America, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Batman or Iron Man could fit into E6, (even if the later 2 need a lot of feats/soulmelds/items to have the diverse powers they have in the movies). Characters like Superman, WW, Flash, Hulk or Thor don't.

[Batcathat]

I'm not familiar with comics, but I assume that Golden age superman is roughly equivalent in power to his appearances in the DC animated series or in Man of Steel.

Actually the really early Superman wasn't very powerful compared to what he'd become later – he was faster than a train, could leap buildings (he couldn't fly yet), it'd take a grenade to break his skin, etc. Probably still a bit above most heroic fantasy characters but not by nearly as much as the later Superman.

[Zonugal]

Can't help but feel like you're just making fun of people and not taking this seriously at all. I'm not familiar with comics, but I assume that Golden age superman is roughly equivalent in power to his appearances in the DC animated series or in Man of Steel. Those things feel like they fit into E6? Seriously? When E6 was literally created by extrapolating a human's capabilities in heroic fantasy stories? Where humans are only slightly more powerful than what the peak of a real human is? How is this comparable to the Superman in those series? A lot of the abilities they use would put 4th level spells to shame, and they have quite a few of those abilities to them. Characters like Cap. America, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Batman or Iron Man could fit into E6, (even if the later 2 need a lot of feats/soulmelds/items to have the diverse powers they have in the movies). Characters like Superman, WW, Flash, Hulk or Thor don't.

Okay, so first of all, let's recognize that I'm not making fun of folks (just being a bit jovial) and that this isn't a very serious topic. We're just having some soft fun here.

But on to the main crunch of your post, Golden Age Superman can be roughly emulated in E6 because E6 allows characters to gain continual hit-points, damage reductions, and speed boosts unlike the regular system.

Golden Age Superman is pretty easy to emulate if we're just approaching him as an outsider who is very strong, very durable, can breath cold, fly, and punch people.

The only thing E6 doesn't quite get is his phenomenal strength (we have to slap a Belt of +6 Giant Strength to get anywhere close).

[liquidformat]

You might have been thinking of Silver Age Superman, who would have to be modeled as a god in D&D.


Yep meant silver age, didn't look up superman when I was typing, I always think golden age superman was the powerful one since it is 'golden' but golden age is the height of popularity for comics....


Can't help but feel like you're just making fun of people and not taking this seriously at all. I'm not familiar with comics, but I assume that Golden age superman is roughly equivalent in power to his appearances in the DC animated series or in Man of Steel. Those things feel like they fit into E6? Seriously? When E6 was literally created by extrapolating a human's capabilities in heroic fantasy stories? Where humans are only slightly more powerful than what the peak of a real human is? How is this comparable to the Superman in those series? A lot of the abilities they use would put 4th level spells to shame, and they have quite a few of those abilities to them. Characters like Cap. America, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Batman or Iron Man could fit into E6, (even if the later 2 need a lot of feats/soulmelds/items to have the diverse powers they have in the movies). Characters like Superman, WW, Flash, Hulk or Thor don't.

Again this is why I have been saying it is important to identify what we are trying to do with these superheros upfront. Golden Age superman is pretty close to clark kent in smallville if you have ever watched the show. Original wonder woman had super strength and was good at fighting but most of the comic books focused around her getting tied up by bad guys and was more focused on the kink then the powers. It wasn't until much later when she was revamped into the cartoon version, even then she is significantly weaker than superman.

[dude123nice]

But on to the main crunch of your post, Golden Age Superman can be roughly emulated in E6 because E6 allows characters to gain continual hit-points, damage reductions, and speed boosts unlike the regular system.


Huh? That's not according to any E6 rulesets I've read, like the one here https://dungeons.fandom.com/wiki/E6_(3.5e_Sourcebook)/Rules. In fact it limits how much characters can advance quite a lot.

What E6 ruleset are you using? Or is this using some combination of feats like essentia or something similar?

[Zonugal]

Huh? That's not according to any E6 rulesets I've read, like the one here https://dungeons.fandom.com/wiki/E6_(3.5e_Sourcebook)/Rules. In fact it limits how much characters can advance quite a lot.

What E6 ruleset are you using? Or is this using some combination of feats like essentia or something similar?

Its just through taking feats like Toughness and Roll With It a bunch of times to inflate your natural defenses.

[Zonugal]

This is what I would do for something like Superman (this is built with the most luxury for the Man of Steel [he has had time to find & read all manuals & tomes] and should be thought of as an E6 character doing weekly adventures for 80 years.

Superman
https://i.ibb.co/g6vjCkc/Superman-Alex-Ross.jpg
"Yes, it's Superman, strange visitor from another planet who came to Earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men. Superman, who can change the course of mighty rivers, bend steel in his bare hands; and who, disguised as Clark Kent, mild-mannered reporter for a great metropolitan newspaper, fights a never ending battle for truth, justice, and the American way."

Clark Joseph Clark aka ‘Kal-El’
Male Sainted Half-Celestial(2) Lesser Aasimar; Ardent 1/Dragonfire Adept 3/Crusader 1/Ardent 1
Size/Type: Medium Outsider (Dragonblood, Native), Lawful Good
Str 22 (+6), Dex 18 (+4), Con 22 (+6), Int 18 (+4), Wis 18 (+4), Cha 20 (+5)
Racial Features: Darkvision (60 ft.), Low-Light Vision, Natural Armor +1, Disease Immunity, Poison Resistance, Acid/Cold/Electricity/Petrification Immunity, Fire Resistance 10, Spell Resistance (6), Damage Reduction 5/Magic, Natural Weapons as Magic Weapons (for the purpose of bypassing the damage reduction of other creatures), Smite Evil (1/day; +6 dmg), Holy Power, Holy Touch, Fast Healing (3), Protective Aura (This acts as a double-strength Magic Circle Against Evil and as a Lesser Globe of Invulnerability; CL 6), & Tongues (constantly active)
Spell-like Abilities (CL 6): Aid (1/day; DC 17), Bless (at will; DC 16), Cure Serious Wounds (1/day; DC 18), Detect Evil (1/day; DC 16), Guidance (at will), Protection From Evil (3/day; DC 16), Resistance (at will), & Virtue (at will)
Class Features: Assume Psionic Mantle (Primary: Guardian & Justice; Secondary: Knowledge), Breath Weapon (2d6 fire or cold; 15-foot cone or a 30-foot line; Reflex save (DC 17) halves the damage), Invocations (Magic Insight & See the Unseen), Breath Effect (Frost Breath), Scales (+2 natural armor), Furious Counterstrike, & Steely Resolve (5)
-- Invocations:
---- Magic Insight: Detect magical auras; identify magic items.
---- See the Unseen: Gain darkvision; gain See Invisibility as the spell.
-- Maneuvers: Claw At The Moon*, Cloak of Deception*, Crusader’s Strike, Foe Hammer, Leading the Attack, Mighty Throw*, Mountain Hammer, & Tactical Strike
-- Stances: Child of Shadow*, Hunter’s Sense*, Martial Spirit, & Step of The Wind*
Feats: Tireless [1st], Dragontouched [DFA1], Practiced Manifester (Ardent) [3rd], Stone Power [6th]
Extra Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Superior Unarmed Strike, Stonewalker Fist (x2), Open Least Chakra (Feet), Shape Soulmeld (Airstep Sandals), Bonus Essentia (x2), Sacred Vow, Vow of Nonviolence, Vow of Peace, Adaptive Style, Martial Study (Claw At The Moon, Cloak of Deception, & Mighty Throw), Martial Stance (Child of Shadow, Hunter's Sense, & Step of The Wind), Toughness (x300), Roll With It (x50)

I imagine he would pick up a lot of psionic feats as to boost his power capabilities as well.

[liquidformat]

So I have been doing some reading up on DR Doom and I think he is too powerful for E6, He started out in silver age and therefore his min power threshold has been quite high. A basic description of him goes like this; his magic power is second only to Dr Strange who is the most magically powerful person on earth, he has power armor that is on par with Iron Man, and intelligence that rivals Reed Richards (Mr Fantastic) who is the smartest person in the world. Particularly the issue comes up with having magic power that is almost as powerful as Dr. Strange who should be sitting at equivalent to a level 17 wizard on the lowest end and somewhere in epic level with maybe a god rank on the high end.

Although I think Golden Age Superman is a bit of a stretch he still seems like a good max power level of for E6, on the other hand I think Dr. Doom is beyond Golden Age Superman. For that matter we might find similar issues with most characters with magical or psionic powers.

[rel]

Then how about we try something else.
How would people stat Hawk Eye or Green Arrow?

Capturing the utility that comes from improbable archery skill and lots of gimmick arrows seems like a challenge but they are definitely within the E6 power level.

[liquidformat]

Then how about we try something else.
How would people stat Hawk Eye or Green Arrow?

Capturing the utility that comes from improbable archery skill and lots of gimmick arrows seems like a challenge but they are definitely within the E6 power level.

Sure that sounds fun to me will workup a concept, they are both pretty low end and questionably neither has any actual 'powers' so something similar to batman.

[liquidformat]

So as would be expected after doing some research hawkeye is a normal person but extremely good with a bow. Interesting enough marvel puts him at peak of human strength level being able to press lift 315lb so that does keep consistency with d&d putting his strength between 18 and 19. Besides that he is described as a master archer/marksman, peak human endurance (18 con), peak human reflexes (18 dex), expert Acrobat, peak human sight (max spot and maybe search skill), master martial artist, expert tactician, cunning fighter, talented weapon designer (decent number of points in craft [bower]) and multilingual.
On the other hand Green Arrow while similar is more like batman with a bow While he is also in peak human condition, a master archer, martial artist, and acrobat; he is skilled in disguise, stealing, interrogation, and intimidation


Clinton Barton (Hawkeye)
Human Ranger 6(thinking Trap Expert ACF, trade ride for tumble, handle animal for gather information, Distracting Shot, Favored Enemy (Human,Mutant), Archery Combat Style)
Skills: max spot/listen/search, Hide/Move Silently, Knowledge (local), and Tumble, rest of the points going into disable device, craft (bower), 5 in jump, 8 climb, 1 or 2 in swim, and survival
Skill Tricks: Collector of Stories, Corner Perch, Nimble Stand
Feats: Knowledge Devotion (Knowledge (Local))[HB], Point Blank Shot[L1], Rapid Shot [R2], Precise Shot[L3], Many Shot[R6], Improved Rapid Shot[L6], Ability Training (Con)[Bo1], Ability Training (Str)[Bo2], Ability Training (Dex)[Bo3], Ability Advancement (Str)[Bo4], Ability Advancement (Con)[Bo5], Ability Advancement (Dex)[Bo6], Expeditious Dodge[Bo7], Mobility[Bo8], Shot on the Run[Bo9], Woodland archer[Bo10], Ranged disarm[Bo11], Darkstalker[Bo12], Greater Manyshot[Bo13], Martial Study (Cloak of Deception)[Bo14], Martial Stance (Child of Shadow)[Bo15]

Oliver Queen (Green Arrow)
Human Rogue 4/Ranger 2
Skills: max spot/listen/search, Hide/Move Silently, Knowledge (local), and Tumble, also ranks in gather information, disguise, intimidate, survival, sleight of hand, use magic device, and disable device
Skill Tricks: Collector of Stories, Corner Perch, Nimble Stand
Feats: Knowledge Devotion (Knowledge (Local))[HB], Point Blank Shot[L1], Precise Shot[L3], Rapid Shot [R2], Many Shot[L6], Ability Training (Con)[Bo1], Ability Training (Str)[Bo2], Ability Training (Dex)[Bo3], Ability Advancement (Str)[Bo4], Ability Advancement (Con)[Bo5], Ability Advancement (Dex)[Bo6], Greater Manyshot[Bo7], Expeditious Dodge[Bo8], Mobility[Bo98], Shot on the Run[Bo10], Woodland archer[Bo11], Ranged disarm[Bo12], Darkstalker[Bo13], Martial Study (Cloak of Deception)[Bo14], Martial Stance (Child of Shadow)[Bo15]

As far as equipment both would have an Elvencraft Dragonbone Composite Longbow of their strength score and Elhonna Quiver. Serpentongue Arrows, Dragonsbreath Arrows, Adamantine-Darkwood Arrows, Alchemists Arrows, Blunt Arrows, Flight Arrows, Signal Arrows, Thundering Arrows, Swiftwing Arrows, Razorfeather Arrows

[Zonugal]

So I have been doing some reading up on DR Doom and I think he is too powerful for E6, He started out in silver age and therefore his min power threshold has been quite high. A basic description of him goes like this; his magic power is second only to Dr Strange who is the most magically powerful person on earth, he has power armor that is on par with Iron Man, and intelligence that rivals Reed Richards (Mr Fantastic) who is the smartest person in the world. Particularly the issue comes up with having magic power that is almost as powerful as Dr. Strange who should be sitting at equivalent to a level 17 wizard on the lowest end and somewhere in epic level with maybe a god rank on the high end.

Although I think Golden Age Superman is a bit of a stretch he still seems like a good max power level of for E6, on the other hand I think Dr. Doom is beyond Golden Age Superman. For that matter we might find similar issues with most characters with magical or psionic powers.

It isn't about making a perfect copy of a character in DnD but rather adapting them into our setting.

So, if Doctor Doom is second only to Dr. Strange in magical skill, we simply design Dr Strange first (who, within our setting, would just be the most powerful mage in D&D E6) and work backwards from there.

[Zonugal]

As for someone like Hawkeye, I'd maybe portray him as such:

Hawkeye
https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/hawkeye_7.jpg

"I mean, I can't miss... I'm on a team with super-humans. And one god, in case you've forgotten. Even you... well, you climb walls really well. The training is the only thing that makes me special. And if I'm not special, then none of this is worth it. I gave up a lot for this life. I could have been happy with Mockingbir-- Bobbi. We could have had a good, simple life. But I wanted to play with the big boys. And if I miss, it means I'm just another dude with a bow. It means I've been fooling myself this whole time. And that's why I never miss."

Clint Barton
Male Human Ranger 5/Deadwood Sniper 1
Size/Type: Medium Humanoid (Human), Chaotic Good
Str 12 (+1), Dex 18 (+4), Con 14 (+2), Int 10 (+0), Wis 13 (+1), Cha 10 (+0)
Spell Typically Prepared (CL 6): Raptor’s Sight (1/day; DC 12)
Class Features: Favored Enemy (Humans +4; Animal +2), Track Expert, Wild Empathy (+5), Animal Companion (Hawk), Spellcasting, Keen Arrows, & Range Increment Bonus
-- Maneuvers: Claw At The Moon*, Clinging Shadow Strike*, & Drain Vitality*
-- Stances: Blood in the Water*, Child of Shadow*, & Hunter’s Sense*
Feats: Point Blank Shot [Human], Weapon Focus (Longbow) [1st], Rapid Shot [Ranger 2], Endurance [Ranger 3], Far Shot [3rd], & Precise Shot [6th]
Extra Feats: Able Sniper, Bowslinger, Close Quarters Fighting, Combat Reflexes, Crossbow Sniper, Defensive Archery, Deflect Arrows, Deft Opportunist, Dodge, Elusive Target, Expert Tactician, Heroic Destiny, Hindering Opportunist, Improved Favored Enemy (Humans), Improved Mounted Archery, Improved Rapid Shot, Improved Two-Weapon Defense, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Unarmed Strike, Many Shot, Martial Stance (Blood in the Water), Martial Stance (Child of Shadow), Martial Stance (Hunter’s Sense), Martial Study (Claw at the Moon), Martial Study (Clinging Shadow Strike), Martial Study (Drain Vitality), Mobility, Mounted Archery, Mounted Combat, Plunging Shot, Power Critical, Practiced Spellcaster (Ranger), Protected Destiny, Ranged Disarm, Ranged Pin, Ranged Sunder, Rapid Reload (Hand Crossbow), Rapid Reload (Heavy Crossbow), Rapid Reload (Light Crossbow), Raptor School, Sharp Shooting, Shot On The Run, Snap Kick, Snatch Arrows, Spring Attack, Superior Unarmed Strike, Track, Two-Weapon Defense, Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Pounce, Urban Tracking, Vexing Flanker, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Weapon Focus (Composite Longbow), Weapon Focus (Composite Shortbow), Weapon Focus (Dagger), Weapon Focus (Hand Crossbow), Weapon Focus (Heavy Crossbow), Weapon Focus (Heavy Repeating Crossbow), Weapon Focus (Light Crossbow), Weapon Focus (Light Repeating Crossbow), Weapon Focus (Shortbow), Weapon Focus (Short Sword), Wolfpack, & Woodland Archer

[liquidformat]

It isn't about making a perfect copy of a character in DnD but rather adapting them into our setting.

So, if Doctor Doom is second only to Dr. Strange in magical skill, we simply design Dr Strange first (who, within our setting, would just be the most powerful mage in D&D E6) and work backwards from there.

Yes I understand that but I still believe there are plenty of characters out there that fall outside of the E6 power range and so can't be represented inside of it without loosing much of what makes them what they are. For example as we talked about above silver age super man, or characters like Thor that are actual gods, Legion or other Omega level mutants, and Both Doctor Doom and Dr Strange also fall into this realm along with Dr X.

[Zonugal]

We'll just have to agree to disagree then.

But I'm not one to get bogged down in such matters.

Which character should we focus on next?

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Which character should we focus on next?

There was a recent thread on making a blind swordsman; in a similar vein, Daredevil could be cool. Probably Dreamsight Shifter as the race, maybe pick up Wild Hunt via Extra Shifter Trait, but Warblade for the Scent stance that's name I forget is probably a better idea there.

There are two feats called Blindsight worth noting. The first is from Sword & Fist, and grants a radius of just 5 ft, which could work well with Scent to find enemies, moving next to them, and this feat to attack them without penalty. The second is from Masters of the Wild, and gives permanent blindsight out to an absurd 120 ft, but requires you to be able to Wildshape into a Dire Bat. Could Predator Ranger (the variant w/ Fast Movement and Wildshape instead of a combat style) do that at level 5?

[Zonugal]

There was a recent thread on making a blind swordsman; in a similar vein, Daredevil could be cool. Probably Dreamsight Shifter as the race, maybe pick up Wild Hunt via Extra Shifter Trait, but Warblade for the Scent stance that's name I forget is probably a better idea there.

There are two feats called Blindsight worth noting. The first is from Sword & Fist, and grants a radius of just 5 ft, which could work well with Scent to find enemies, moving next to them, and this feat to attack them without penalty. The second is from Masters of the Wild, and gives permanent blindsight out to an absurd 120 ft, but requires you to be able to Wildshape into a Dire Bat. Could Predator Ranger (the variant w/ Fast Movement and Wildshape instead of a combat style) do that at level 5?

Daredevil is a good challenge!

For permanent blindsight, I think using the variant Ranger to grab that feat would be the only way.

The other path is to pick up Blind-Fight and the other feat to minor blind-sight out to five feet. Then have our Daredevil procure a Blindfold Of True Darkness. The advantage of this build is it leaves the classes wide open for something like Swordsage.

[liquidformat]

There was a recent thread on making a blind swordsman; in a similar vein, Daredevil could be cool. Probably Dreamsight Shifter as the race, maybe pick up Wild Hunt via Extra Shifter Trait, but Warblade for the Scent stance that's name I forget is probably a better idea there.

There are two feats called Blindsight worth noting. The first is from Sword & Fist, and grants a radius of just 5 ft, which could work well with Scent to find enemies, moving next to them, and this feat to attack them without penalty. The second is from Masters of the Wild, and gives permanent blindsight out to an absurd 120 ft, but requires you to be able to Wildshape into a Dire Bat. Could Predator Ranger (the variant w/ Fast Movement and Wildshape instead of a combat style) do that at level 5?

Daredevil is a challenging but interesting choice! Dreamsight elite is interesting since it gives you the ability to see invisible creatures and things as an EX ability but I would think Wildhunt would be more important since Wildhunt Elite gives you blindsight out to 30'. The issue with going for a shifter is the time frame you can see is limited to while you are shifting. Though that would thematically make it interesting. Predator Ranger can only transform into small or medium forms so dire bat won't work but desmodu hunting bat would.

Other superheros that could be fun o make: wolverine, sabertooth, mystic, cyclops, captain america, black panther, batman, spiderman.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Wildhunt Elite only gives you blindsense 30ft, so I think just getting Scent and enough ranks in Spot/Listen to find the direction so you can approach for your 5ft Blindsight is a better deal (or getting your hands on the wildshape Blindsight feat, natch). That said, this is E6, so getting both Dreamsight Elite and Wildhunt Elite is totally on the table.

[Zonugal]

For Daredevil I'm currently thinking something like:

Human Unarmed Variant Swordsage 4/Ranger 1/Shadow Sun Ninja 1

[liquidformat]

Wildhunt Elite only gives you blindsense 30ft, so I think just getting Scent and enough ranks in Spot/Listen to find the direction so you can approach for your 5ft Blindsight is a better deal (or getting your hands on the wildshape Blindsight feat, natch). That said, this is E6, so getting both Dreamsight Elite and Wildhunt Elite is totally on the table.

Blind guy with high spot skill actually doesn't violate any rules, that makes me laugh. I think there are a number of ways to go about the blindsight and should be a cool build.

[liquidformat]

Here is my first crack at Daredevil using shifter as base, the idea is he has to put some effort in if he wants to maximize his extra ordinary sense and it will be a tiring experience but is also quite powerful:

So reading through some info on Daredevil I think going ranger makes a lot of sense because he is very skilled in tracking, also Nemesis feat gives us an extra source of blindsight.

Matthew Murdock (Daredevil)
Wildhunt Shifter Ranger 4( trade ride for tumble, handle animal for gather information, Champion of the Wild to pick up Weapon Finesse, Favored Enemy (Human), Two Weapon Combat Style)/Unarmed Swordsage 2
Abilities: Wis(19+)>Dex>Con>Str>Int>Cha
Skills: Concentration, max spot/listen, Sense Motive(once you get it at level 5), Survival, and Tumble, rest of the points going into , 5 in jump, 8 climb, 1 or 2 in swim, maybe hide and move silently if we have extra points to use...
Skill Tricks: Nimble Stand
Feats: Wildhunt Elite[L1], Two-Weapon Fighting [R2], Blind-Fighting[L3], Weapon Finesse[R4], Weapon Focus (Shadow Hand)[SS1], Blindsight, 5-foot Radius[L6], Nemesis(Human)[Bo1], Shifter Ferocity[Bo2], Extra Shifter Trait (Dreamsight)[Bo3], Dreamsight Elite[Bo4], Extra Favored Enemy (Mutant)[Bo5], Nemesis (Mutant)[Bo6], Shadow Blade[Bo7], Ability Training (Con)[Bo8], Ability Advancement (Dex)[Bo9],Ability Training (Wis)[Bo10], Ability Training (Dex)[Bo11],Ability Advancement (Wis)[Bo12],Ability Advancement (Con)[Bo13], Adaptive Style[Bo14], Hear The Unseen[Bo15]
Maneuvers: Burning Brand, Flashing Sun, Sapphire Nightmare Blade, Emerald Razor, Cloak of Deception, Mighty Throw, Baffling Defense, Mountain Hammer
Stances: Child of Shadow, Island of Blades

Iconic Equipment: Rod of Ropes

[Zonugal]

That looks like a good build!

In terms of characters to focus on next?

I think Captain America is really too easy, so I'm going to suggest we look at Cyclops.

I think the easiest approach to him is some mixture of Ardent and Warlock.

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Cyclops would be a fun one, I am thinking Dragonfire Adept.

[Zonugal]

Why Dragonfire Adept?

I'm currently thinking of him as a lesser planetouched race (as to replicate being a Mutant) Ardent 1/Warlock 3/Warblade 1/Ardent 1

That gets you consistent eldritch blasts (with some invocations to increase its range and to let Scott see through invisibility), gets him White Raven maneuvers so he can perform leadership on the battlefield, and psionic powers for more powerful blasts.

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For me Dragonfire Adept’s Breath weapon flavorfully modified to be ocular blasts just seems more like Cyclop’s ocular blasts than warlock’s eldritch blasts. Cyclop’s ocular blasts function more similarly to line and cone-like breath weapons than balls of energy being shot by warlocks.

Scott Summers (Cyclops)
Human Dragonfire Adept 5/Warblade 1
Abilities: Con(19+)>Str>Dex>Int>Cha>Wis
Skills: Concentration, max spot/listen, Sense Motive(once you get it at level 5), Survival, and Tumble, rest of the points going into , 5 in jump, 8 climb, 1 or 2 in swim, maybe hide and move silently if we have extra points to use...
Skill Tricks: Nimble Stand
Feats: Power Surge (Breath Weapon) [HB], Shape Breath[L1], Lingering Breath[L3], Enlarge Breath[R4], Quicken Breath[L6], Clinging Breath[Bo1], Maximize Breath[Bo2], Recover Breath[Bo3], Entangling Exhalation[Bo4], Adaptive Style[Bo5], Knowledge Devotion[Bo6], Ability Training (Con)[Bo7], Ability Advancement (Con)[Bo8], Ability Training (Dex)[Bo9], Ability Advancement (Dex)[Bo10], Ability Training (Int)[Bo11], Ability Advancement (Int)[Bo12], Improved Unarmed Strike[Bo13], Superior Unarmed Strike[Bo14], Exhaled Barrier[Bo15]
Breath Effects: Cold Breath, Slow Breath
Though sicken, slow, and weaken don’t fit Cyclop’s ocular blasts as thematically; they still are powerful choices. Cyclops is described as having great skill using his ocular blasts so shaped breath seems to be a great representation of that, however, it is also a feat so probably better to choose something else here.
Invocations: Beguiling Influence (Scott is supposed to be a leader after all), See the Unseen (Endure Exposure is also a good choice here)
Maneuvers3: Leading the Attack, Mountain Hammer, Wall of Blades
Stances: Leading the Charge or Punishing Stance

you could also add in a couple martial study feats for some extra maneuvers...

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Anyone else with builds for Cyclops?

I will vote for nightcrawler next he seems like a fun challenge!

[Zonugal]

Anyone else with builds for Cyclops?

I will vote for nightcrawler next he seems like a fun challenge!

I think the easiest path with Nightcrawler might be using the Blink Shirt soulmeld.

So maybe something like a Tiefling Totemist 4/Swordsage 2???

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I have been milling over something like Conjurer (Abrupt Jaunt immediate action ACF)1/Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage 2 with Shape Soulmeld (Blink Shirt) feat