Mithril Thread/Cloth

[SirNibbles]

I was reading a manga in which one of the characters makes mithril thread from the following process:
1. Sprinkle Mithril dust into the soil in which White Mulberry grows
2. Silkworms feed on the leaves
3. Gather the silk from the worms' coccoons
4. Scald and dry the silk to make easily workable thread

The end result is clothing infused with mithril which is as soft as normal clothing. However, there is no mention of the viability of such clothing against physical attacks- it simply states that it 'enhances magical defenses' to the point where a Fireball is completely nullified by someone wearing the clothing.

For obvious reasons, this makes no realistic sense. The White Mulberry surely wouldn't benefit from the presence of mithril in the soil, nor could the silkworms somehow pass it on to their silk, and the fact that it provides such significant magical resistance is insane.

__

On to the main point: is there any mention of any similar technique in any D&D literature? If mithril is sufficiently ductile (whether on its own or as part of an alloy), it should be possible to make thread from it and weave that into armour similarly to kevlar.

[Thurbane]

Note sure if it will be much help, but this thread lists a lot of special materials used for cloth in 3.5, which you may be able to use as a comparison point: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?292848-Special-Materials-for-Cloth

[Jay R]

And while it's not in D&D literature, the gold equivalent actually existed. Cloth of gold (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloth_of_gold) is a real thing that existed from Biblical times through the Roman empire, the Middle Ages, and the Renaissance. So much of it was worn at a 1520 English & French tournament that the event has come to be known as the Field of the Cloth of Gold (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_of_the_Cloth_of_Gold).

Make yarn out of silk wrapped with gold thread, and then weave with that yarn. Mithril is much harder than gold, and would be significantly harder to treat this way, but it should be possible.

[D+1]

Any metal that can be worked without just breaking from brittleness should be able to be made into wire/thread and then at least woven WITH cloth, if not woven AS cloth. But the time and expense required are going to be significant factors. Gold is great for making molecule-thick foil and thread. Mithril, however you define its physical properties, should probably at least be able to pulled through dies to make thread that can be woven WITH cloth.

[el minster]

In Complete Arcane it has something sort of similar called Dyrr's Impervious Vestment(page 148)

[Jay R]

Mithril, however you define its physical properties, ...

The relevant physical properties are already defined: it is harder than steel. The same properties that make it superior for weapons and armor would also make it very difficult to work into this form.

Cloth of gold works well because gold is very soft and malleable.

If I introduce cloth of mithril into a game of mine, making it will be extremely difficult. It will require either dwarven craftsmanship or a specific spell to draw the extremely hard metal into thin wires.

[It will also be resistant to piercing and slashing resistant. Having been made into a flexible cloth, however, it would not protect against bludgeoning damage.]

[SirNibbles]

In Complete Arcane it has something sort of similar called Dyrr's Impervious Vestment(page 148)

Thanks, that is very useful! It seems like this establishes at least some precedent within the D&D world for weaving metal into clothes in order to make 'unarmoured armour'.

"Dyrr’s Impervious Vestment: This black silk robe is embroidered with adamantine thread in an elegant waterfall pattern. It confers a +9 armor bonus to its wearer...
Strong abjuration; CL 18th; Craft Wondrous Item, blade barrier, mage armor; Price 123,000 gp; Weight 3 lb. - Complete Arcane, page 148

Assuming the robe gets +4 from Mage Armor, that means the cloth itself would be granting +5, which is impressive for something that weighs less than 1/8th what a regular chain shirt would weigh.

If we can extrapolate the production of Dyrr's Impervious Vestment for non-magical (or less-magical) metal-threaded clothing, it could be interesting.

__


The relevant physical properties are already defined: it is harder than steel. The same properties that make it superior for weapons and armor would also make it very difficult to work into this form.

Cloth of gold works well because gold is very soft and malleable.

If I introduce cloth of mithril into a game of mine, making it will be extremely difficult. It will require either dwarven craftsmanship or a specific spell to draw the extremely hard metal into thin wires.

[It will also be resistant to piercing and slashing resistant. Having been made into a flexible cloth, however, it would not protect against bludgeoning damage.]

A material can be hard/strong and still be flexible. Stiffness and hardness aren't always linked.

https://www.fictiv.com/hwg/design/engineering-fundamentals-refresh-strength-vs-stiffness-vs-hardness

[Estradus]

This is third party, but Quintessential Fighter II has an armor called "Spun Mithral." Could be useful if you want stats for it.

"Through non-magical alchemical processes, elves found a way to spin mithral into thin, weave-like strands that can be woven into clothing of surprising hardness. Garments made from spun mithral are incredibly expensive, but they can be worn as regular clothing. Nevertheless, they do not stack with any other armor worn."

Stats: a spun mithral shirt is 3300g, +2 armor bonus, +8 max dex, 0 acp and arcane spell failure, 6 lbs. A spun mithral suit or dress is +3 armor, +7 max dex, 5% spell failure, and 8 pounds. Both are light armor.

[Falontani]

You are able to shrink one nonmagical item (if it is within the size limit) to 1/16 of its normal size in each dimension (to about 1/4,000 the original volume and mass). This change effectively reduces the object’s size by four categories. Optionally, you can also change its now shrunken composition to a clothlike one.

A traditional robe requires 3 yards or 9 feet of cloth material. So for completely mithril you could either get 144 feet of mithril coil to sew the robe normally, or sew the robe in its miniature form (sized for a fine creature, probably through fabricate).

Sewing in miniature and returning to size loses its clothlike composition, so may not be flexible afterwards, while using the larger amount of mithril definitely keeps it's composition although will need to be permanently shrunk and thus be vulnerable to targeted dispels.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Thanks, that is very useful! It seems like this establishes at least some precedent within the D&D world for weaving metal into clothes in order to make 'unarmoured armour'.

"Dyrr’s Impervious Vestment: This black silk robe is embroidered with adamantine thread in an elegant waterfall pattern. It confers a +9 armor bonus to its wearer...
Strong abjuration; CL 18th; Craft Wondrous Item, blade barrier, mage armor; Price 123,000 gp; Weight 3 lb. - Complete Arcane, page 148

Assuming the robe gets +4 from Mage Armor, that means the cloth itself would be granting +5, which is impressive for something that weighs less than 1/8th what a regular chain shirt would weigh.

If we can extrapolate the production of Dyrr's Impervious Vestment for non-magical (or less-magical) metal-threaded clothing, it could be interesting.
No, it definitely gets +9 from the enchantment, and nothing from the adamantine thread. You need mage armour to craft it, but it doesn't produce the spell effect directly, only something like it (that happens to be much more powerful, also because of its high CL). For the second spell, I think the idea is that the adamantine threads are analogous to the blades in blade barrier or something? I don't know...

[SirNibbles]

No, it definitely gets +9 from the enchantment, and nothing from the adamantine thread. You need mage armour to craft it, but it doesn't produce the spell effect directly, only something like it (that happens to be much more powerful, also because of its high CL). For the second spell, I think the idea is that the adamantine threads are analogous to the blades in blade barrier or something? I don't know...

Price breakdown, assuming I'm not messing this up:

Command word spell effect, 6th level spell, CL 18, 1 charge per day

6 x 18 x 1,000 / 5 = 38,880 gp

Armor bonus +9

92 x 1,000 = 81,000 gp

That's 119,880 gp. The robe is 123,000 gp which means the base robe is 3,120 gp. That seems a bit expensive if it doesn't grant any bonus at all. Considering the weight is 3x that of most other robes, some of that price likely comes from the adamantine woven into it, especially considering base robes are pretty much free.

The cost of making a 25 lb chainshirt from adamantine is +5,000 gp. Thus, 2.5 lbs of adamantine for the robe should be around 500 gp. Where does the other 2,620 come from, especially considering the cost of robes is pretty much zero? Is it just a case of them rounding off the number for no reason?

Is the adamantine thread in any way useful?

[Telonius]

This came up in a thread a couple weeks ago - there are two versions of the item: Dyrr's (in Complete Arcane), and just plain "Impervious Vestment" from MiC. They have different specific effects and different prices. (The original question was about what body slot it occupies; thread here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?607466-Dyrr-s-Impervious-Vestments)).

[SirNibbles]

This came up in a thread a couple weeks ago - there are two versions of the item: Dyrr's (in Complete Arcane), and just plain "Impervious Vestment" from MiC. They have different specific effects and different prices. (The original question was about what body slot it occupies; thread here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?607466-Dyrr-s-Impervious-Vestments)).

The MIC version is even more confusing due to the cost for the 1/day Blade Barrier effect alone being more than the cost of the whole +5 AC robe with the 1/day Blade Barrier effect. Sadly though, it seems like the intent was just to have the adamantine thread as decoration. It's a shame.

[Powerdork]

The MIC version is even more confusing due to the cost for the 1/day Blade Barrier effect alone being more than the cost of the whole +5 AC robe with the 1/day Blade Barrier effect.

Worth noting that Magic Item Compendium says prices aren't necessarily to DMG spec.
Check pg. 233, "BEHIND THE CURTAIN: PRICING MAGIC ITEMS"