Build Help

[Gullintanni]

Greetings playgrounders!

I'm joining a 5e game after years and years in 3.5. I've decided to build a Moon Druid, but it's a fairly low OP group, so I've been considering hamming it up a bit. I'm thinking of going Moon Druid 2/Bear Totem Barbarian 3/Paladin 7/Druid 8. The idea is to be an angry bear during the early game, and scale damage late game using Divine Smite. I'm limiting myself to PHB/Core only, and I'm wondering if what I'm building is viable.

I do not want spellcasting to be the focus of this build, but I want to be able to scale. I don't expect that the game will go beyond level 10, so I'm wondering if the I've set myself up for a painful experience during the awkward levels.

We're starting L1, I'm leaning toward half-elf (Variant Human might be better but I don't really like the feel of it), and my stats after racial adjustments are:

14
16
18
10
14
15

Any advice for a newcomer?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Greetings playgrounders!

I'm joining a 5e game after years and years in 3.5. I've decided to build a Moon Druid, but it's a fairly low OP group, so I've been considering hamming it up a bit. I'm thinking of going Moon Druid 2/Bear Totem Barbarian 3/Paladin 7/Druid 8. The idea is to be an angry bear during the early game, and scale damage late game using Divine Smite. I'm limiting myself to PHB/Core only, and I'm wondering if what I'm building is viable.

I do not want spellcasting to be the focus of this build, but I want to be able to scale. I don't expect that the game will go beyond level 10, so I'm wondering if the I've set myself up for a painful experience during the awkward levels.

We're starting L1, I'm leaning toward half-elf (Variant Human might be better but I don't really like the feel of it), and my stats after racial adjustments are:

14
16
18
10
14
15

Any advice for a newcomer?


Your stats are pretty good and I don't think you'll find too many moon druids non-livable. Is there any race you can think of that would help you ham it up? A Tiefling who would rather hide in place sight as a puppy? A dwarf who wants to be a large angry bear? 1/2 Elves and V Humans can be plenty funny. I'm not sure if their

[Gullintanni]

Being an angry bear is hammy enough for my group. I've decided to play as a fairly short half-elf. I like the idea of being a better negotiator in bear form ;)

I read that multi-classing in 5e could be a bit of a trap, and I remember playing a sorcadin in 3.5 could be pretty rough at level 5 when you're still really far behind the party wizard.

[nickl_2000]

Here is the problem with your intended design. Your wild shape will be as a bear until level 12 or so, the bears to hit is still only going to have a +6 to hit at level 8 and the attacks will be non-magical. Add onto it that you only have an AC of 13 with an effective HP of 68 while raging. When getting into tier 2 you are going to get hit by pretty much every attack and that HP will drop in a very big hurry.

Don't get me wrong, you can make this build work. However, don't be surprised if you are being knocked out of your wildshape fairly often and need to fight in melee in your caster form and just plan for that.

[Gullintanni]

Here is the problem with your intended design. Your wild shape will be as a bear until level 12 or so, the bears to hit is still only going to have a +6 to hit at level 8 and the attacks will be non-magical. Add onto it that you only have an AC of 13 with an effective HP of 68 while raging. When getting into tier 2 you are going to get hit by pretty much every attack and that HP will drop in a very big hurry.

Don't get me wrong, you can make this build work. However, don't be surprised if you are being knocked out of your wildshape fairly often and need to fight in melee in your caster form and just plan for that.

That's good to know. I had a feeling that might be the case. Bear Totem halves all incoming damage while raging so that should help a bit.

That's why I opted for better physical stats despite being wildshape focused though. I didn't want to be feeble outside of wildshape.

[nickl_2000]

That's good to know. I had a feeling that might be the case. Bear Totem halves all incoming damage while raging so that should help a bit.

That's why I opted for better physical stats despite being wildshape focused though. I didn't want to be feeble outside of wildshape.

The total of 68 HP is based on raging. The CR 1 bear has 34 HP and 11 AC as a base. I put in 68 HP and 13 AC due to barbarian rage and barbarian unarmored defense. A druid melee character can certain be viable though. I've played one and it was a blast.

[Gullintanni]

The total of 68 HP is based on raging. The CR 1 bear has 34 HP and 11 AC as a base. I put in 68 HP and 13 AC due to barbarian rage and barbarian unarmored defense. A druid melee character can certain be viable though. I've played one and it was a blast.

Ah, okay, thanks.

Correct me if I'm wrong but... Unarmored defense adds 3 points of AC from the bear's 16 Con, and the bear has 1 point of Natural armor. Shouldn't that be 14AC?

I appreciate the responses!

[nickl_2000]

Ah, okay, thanks.

Correct me if I'm wrong but... Unarmored defense adds 3 points of AC from the bear's 16 Con, and the bear has 1 point of Natural armor. Shouldn't that be 14AC?

I appreciate the responses!

No it doesn't. Unarmored Defense gives you a new calculation for AC. So you can
1) Use 10 + Dex + Unarmored defense = 11
2) Used 10 + Dex + Con = 13 (from barbarian)

You are not allowed to combine 1 and 2

[Deathtongue]

I do not want spellcasting to be the focus of this build, but I want to be able to scale. I don't expect that the game will go beyond level 10, so I'm wondering if the I've set myself up for a painful experience during the awkward levels.What books are you using? If you're using more than just the PHB: why not just take all ten levels of Moon Druid and, if the game goes past that point, then take Paladin levels?

I know you're worried about durability, but the way you gain durability as a Moon Druid is through your additional wildshape forms. For example, at level 6 you can Wildshape into an Allosaurus for 54 hp. Level 9 you can Wildshape into an Ankylosaurus, which has 68 hp. If you make it to level 10, you can transform into an Earth Elemental(!). And heck, at level 7 you always have the option of just layering on some Stoneskin action.

Read more here for Wildshape's potential. https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?583036

[Gullintanni]

What books are you using? If you're using more than just the PHB: why not just take all ten levels of Moon Druid and, if the game goes past that point, then take Paladin levels?

I know you're worried about durability, but the way you gain durability as a Moon Druid is through your additional wildshape forms. For example, at level 6 you can Wildshape into an Allosaurus for 54 hp. Level 9 you can Wildshape into an Ankylosaurus, which has 68 hp. If you make it to level 10, you can transform into an Earth Elemental(!). And heck, at level 7 you always have the option of just layering on some Stoneskin action.

Read more here for Wildshape's potential. https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?583036

Durability isn't my concern. On hitting Paladin 2, I can trade spell slots to smite in bear form. That's how I was planning to scale damage, and that's what I'm really concerned about beyond initial levels.

PHB is the only sourcebook I'm using, and I'm trying to do things with my spell slots other than cast spells. The point is to be tanky, hit hard, and be the best bear I can be! Being a dinosaur kind of deflates the flavor of the build.

[Man_Over_Game]

I wouldn't plan 20 levels in advance. When starting at level 1, don't plan to make it to level 6, as most tables would have ended their campaign by that point.

Most tables that make it to higher levels either started out already really high, or they've already accidentally gotten to high levels through regularly consistent gameplay. If it's a new table, expect a 6 month lifetime.

Even if you level up every session and play once a week, you'd hit your 20th session by month 4, and 20 sessions is pretty dang successful for a new table.

[Gullintanni]

I wouldn't plan 20 levels in advance. When starting at level 1, don't plan to make it to level 6, as most tables would have ended their campaign by that point.

Most tables that make it to higher levels either started out already really high, or they've already accidentally gotten to high levels through regularly consistent gameplay. If it's a new table, expect a 6 month lifetime.

Even if you level up every session and play once a week, you'd hit your 20th session by month 4, and 20 sessions is pretty dang successful for a new table.

I'm planning for about level 8. It's why I'm also considering Druid 1-2/Barb 1/Paladin 1-2/Druid3-4 as my level order.

Building that way progresses spellcasting more, gets me into Divine Smite more quickly, unlocks wildshape+rage+smite early enough to be playable, and if I'm reading the multi-classing tables correctly, nets me 3rd level spell slots to power divine smite by level 7.

I think this is better than trying to get into bear totem earlier, since rage already reduces conventional weapon damage by 50%, but I'm not sure.