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Xuincherguixe
2007-10-22, 04:03 PM
I'm thinking about allowing Gestalts in an upcoming campaign. I'm wondering what would be a good gestalt choice for a stupid jerk Barbarian. Due to low mental scores, he's not really suited to magic.

Rogue seems as though it's likely the best choice. He's not supposed to be sneaky, but he doesn't need to have to take sneaking skills.

Bard doesn't seem like a very good choice either. It combines magic, deceit, sneakiness, and inspiration. None of which are good for a thug. And frankly it would be stupid beyond words. It'd get really old really fast.

Fighter for the bonus feets might work.

Any suggestions?


As a side note, this says something about the playability of the "bully" archetype.

The Glyphstone
2007-10-22, 04:04 PM
Well, if it's got low mental stats, than Fighter or Rogue might be the best options - though Gestalt is usually meant to cover weaknesses/get extra bonuses - Fighter and Barbarian are somewhat redundant in that role.

And of course, Bardbarian is just fun to say...

NEO|Phyte
2007-10-22, 04:05 PM
If Tome of Battle is allowed, a Martial Adept could add some fun. a fair amount of overlap for most things, but Manouvers are always handy, and can be used in a Rage.

Dhavaer
2007-10-22, 04:08 PM
Swordsage would give all good saves, as well as a lot of shiny Tiger Claw maneuvers.

Ponce
2007-10-22, 04:09 PM
I like bardbarians. Both barbs and bards are unlawful, mechanically, so that works out nicely. I picture a bardbarian blasting a warhorn, inspiring his comrades before charging into battle. Perhaps a tribe shaman or warlord? The charisma required for bard fills both these roles. This combo will net you perfect saves, full bab, and some pretty nice skills, plus bard spellcasting.

Ranger is almost always a great class for gestalt. Less so in this particular instance, but still pretty strong. Fits well thematically too.

Human Paragon 3
2007-10-22, 05:22 PM
The shapeshift druid variant from the PHB2 teams well with the barbarian. The rage bonuses stack neatly with the animal form bonuses to create a potent combination, plus druid spellcasting (just not while you rage, unfortunately).

One thing the above poster missed about the bardbarian: you can still use bardic music while in a rage. Why not throw in the whirling frenzy variant while you're at it to get the Dex synergy with the bard's skill set?

Xuincherguixe
2007-10-22, 05:39 PM
plus druid spellcasting (just not while you rage, unfortunately).
That might work well, if the guy had enough wisdom to cast spells. Which he does not.

Toliudar
2007-10-22, 05:44 PM
Actually, druid might be a useful place to go, even without the spellcasting. Wildshape, animal companion, a few other nice perks, and a better will save. Find him a magic item that pumps his wisdom to allow him to cast at least low-level spells, and you're off and running!

brian c
2007-10-22, 05:50 PM
That might work well, if the guy had enough wisdom to cast spells. Which he does not.

well, it might help to let us know what the stats are that you're working with (and if they can be rearranged at all), along with what books you can use.

Barbarian is a good gestalt class for a couple reasons
1) good HD
2) different abilities (ie, very little overlap with your other class, except uncanny dodge with rogues)

Also, what kind of party role are you going for? If you want to be a melee guy, Rogue works very nicely, but you could try more of a gish role and be Barbarian//Battle Sorc, and still be dumb since Sorc spellcasting is based on Cha. Barbarian//Ranger would be nice for free TWF feats and tracking, or Urban Ranger for more of a Thug feel.

Xuincherguixe
2007-10-22, 05:57 PM
... Oh right. Magic Items. The game has those doesn't it?

As far as stats go. The guy playing him low mental stats all around. The character is supposed to have no real redeeming features. They could be rearranged (I'm setting things as point buy), but it goes against the concept a bit.

If it wasn't for that, I'd have figured out something on my own.

As far as books go, if neccesary I'll go get a few. Right now I'm just trying to figure out options.

It might be fine to just go with straight Barbarian.

Reel On, Love
2007-10-22, 06:21 PM
Swordsage is a good option. Or Crusader, just for the unkillability (pick up Diamond Mind maneuvers to cover your saves through multiclassing, feats, or items).

Ponce
2007-10-22, 09:22 PM
One thing the above poster missed about the bardbarian: you can still use bardic music while in a rage. Why not throw in the whirling frenzy variant while you're at it to get the Dex synergy with the bard's skill set?

Whirling frenzy is not assisted by a high dexterity any more than a normal rage (a bardbarian with high dex would have extreme MAD anyway), nor can you use dexterity, intelligence, or charisma based skills while in a rage regardless. As far as I know, this includes many of the bard's key skills, including the perform checks where necessary for his bardic music. Those bardic music uses that don't explicitly say they require a check still require that the bard produce music, which if you don't want to count as a charisma-based skill, would then fall under using "patience or concentration," another thing a barbarian can't do while in a rage. You would have to produce the music before entering the rage, and could not use it until after the rage is over. The Lingering Song feat (CAdv) might help in this respect.

Dode
2007-10-22, 09:40 PM
Totemist uses Constitution as a primary stat and unlocks various monster abilities/attacks to go with your Barbarian sheer power.

RTGoodman
2007-10-22, 09:47 PM
I think Rogue does seem like a pretty good choice. It'll net you Evasion, a bunch of skill points (even if you've got a low Int) that you can use for basically anything, and a good Reflex save.

And let's not forget, if you can get another party member to flank with you, that's a whole lot of damage from a two-handed leaping sneak attack.

BardicDuelist
2007-10-22, 09:56 PM
If you go Spirit Lion Totem, or whatever it is called, Scout can be a good choice. You can be a really fast bully who hits really hard when you charge at somone to cleave them in two with your giant weapon. It also helps to make up for a lower armor class (rage and charge tend to hurt that for you).

MaxMahem
2007-10-22, 11:48 PM
If you go Spirit Lion Totem, or whatever it is called, Scout can be a good choice. You can be a really fast bully who hits really hard when you charge at somone to cleave them in two with your giant weapon. It also helps to make up for a lower armor class (rage and charge tend to hurt that for you).

Even without Spirit Lion Totem cheese, scout is a good choice. It will net you another good save, LOTS of skill points (8+int level!), and additional speed and skirmish. The two synergise quite well in my opinion. A barbarian tends to be a very mobile fighter in light armor, which skirmish only assists, and can offset your raging AC penalty somewhat.

Ironicly I'm making a gestalt barbarian//scout for a gestalt game as well. Playing a longstrider shifter I can move something like 50ft/move at 1st level when shifted, which is pretty good. Lots of good PrCs I can move into later as well (warshaper, weretouched master, reachrunner, animal lord, ect...). So far my only problem is a low will save, which rage compensates for somewhat, but not enough.

--

Ranger//Barbarian is good as well, especially if you are planning on going the two weapon route. Rogue//Barbarian is good as well, though note that you can't use hide/move silently when raged, as that may cut down on your ambush options a bit. However if you play shifter you could go reachrunner and get the ambush/pounce thing. Rage as you come out of hiding, charge and pounce for massive damage. Really all three of these builds work well as a light fighter/expert character, even with a barbarian traditionally low intelligence. Properly built you can handle the scouting/sneaking duties, tanking/melee, skirmishing, and trapfinding to some extent.

Fishy
2007-10-23, 02:26 AM
Have you considered psionics? The way the augmentation mechanic works, you can actually be a reasonably competent manifester with only an 11 in your manifesting stat. Yes, you won't be stopping time and bringing back the dead, but you can smack people with leveld6 of damage and use the nifty psionic buffs. A Wilder//Barbarian using Wild Surged Vigor has about as much HP as it is physically possible to have, and themey, too. Plus, you can take the Psionic Weapon feats, which add more to the Barbarian's 'explode in your face' capacity.

Failing that, Ranger is the traditional 'I don't know or care what the other half of this gestalt is doing' class, and that lets you dip into Horizon Walker to get fatigue immunity before Barbarian does. Blah.