[3.5] How to wield weapons as a shapeshift variant (PHBII) druid

[ciopo]

Greetings giants.

I've asked this in the simple Q/A thread, I got a answer pointing me to the necklace of natural attacks, which is adjacient but doesn't fit my needs, and rather than pollute the simple Q/A thread, I'm asking the more elaborate question here.

background info : i'm a shapeshift variant druid doing the War of the burning sky campaign, without doing heavy spoiler, a good while ago ( like, half a year of weekly sessions, 2 or 3 levels ago (currently level 6)) I obtained an artifact weapon that gets better as I level, this weapon went to me for plot reason, despite me not being the most optimal recipient for it since my in combat playstyle is based on fighting while shapeshifted as per the variant. Fluffwise I am considered bonded to the weapon, and I paid some lip service to my GM about me "deepening the bond with the weapon" over subsequent sessions

we as the party do not wish to sell the weapon, the idea of giving it away to the party warlock gish fae patron to refluff it as "we'll gift this artifact weapon to my patron, she'll give us some boon in exchange" was floated around.

That said, while I'm not opposed to get rid of something I objectively do not ( and probably almost never will ) use, I strongly dislike doing so in any form of homebrew justification, with my reasoning being "if you homebrew the artifact away in exchange for some nebolous fae boon, you can just as well homebrew it that I've bonded to the weapon enough that it gives me bonus while in predator form, or any other of our party member, really.

So, given all that, is anybody able to point me to some 1st or 3rd party 3.p RAW or RAI <something> that let's me either wield the weapon while in a predator form, or have the bonuses of the weapon be applied to my natural attacks? Currently it's +1 with a caveat flaming. Preference would be for a feat, tho I have room for dipping 1 or 2 levels, since I'm already not going for full caster on purpose (probably irrilevant, but the tentative build is druid11/warshaper4/nature's warrior 5 , no infinite tentacles cheese). it is relevant to comment that the GM told us to use PF feat progression, so we get one feat every odd level and not every 3 level, so I have more feat that I know what ot use them for, retraining rules apply.

Shapeshift variant details :

You can shapeshift at will into powerful animal
or nature-oriented forms. Each time you use this ability, you
can choose the exact look that your shapeshifted form takes.
Druids pick animals from the terrain and climate they’re most
familiar with. For example, a druid from a jungle might adopt
the form of a black panther when in predator form, while one
from the taiga might shapeshift into a white wolf. The two
forms look different, but functionally they’re identical. This
is a supernatural ability.
It requires only a swift action to shapeshift. If you are
capable of taking more than one form, you can shapeshift
directly between two forms without returning to your normal
form. There’s no limit to the number of times per day you
can change forms, nor to the amount of time you can spend
in a shapeshifted form.
You retain your normal Hit Dice, hit points, base attack
bonus, base saving throw bonuses, and skill ranks regardless
of your form. You also retain your normal ability scores,
though each form grants a bonus to your Strength score.
You keep all extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like
special attacks and qualities of your normal form, except for
those requiring a body part your new form does not have.
All your held, carried, or worn gear melds into your new
form and becomes nonfunctional until you return to your
normal form. You cannot speak in shapeshifted form, and
your limbs lack the precision required to wield a weapon or
perform tasks requiring fine manipulation. You can’t cast
spells or activate magic items while in shapeshifted form,
even if you have the Natural Spell feat or other ability that
would allow you to cast spells while wild shaped.

I've bolded the part that stumps the first idea I had, which is going gorilla and just wield the weapon as a gorilla or any other predator form with opposable thumbs.

if only there was a "wild" weapon enhancement.

Thanks put forward

[Silly Name]

You could put the Mouthpick enchantment (Lords of Madness) on the weapon. It counts only as a +1 and, as the name says, allows you to use the weapon by wielding it with your mouth.

If your DM has hinted that the weapon will gain abilities along as you level up, you could even suggest this to be one of them since the weapon is supposed to be bonded to you.

[ciopo]

ohhh , that's one interesting +1.

The artifact is from the campaign book however, so it doesn't sits well with me asking to houserule the item differently than as statted on the book, otherwise might as well go full houserule with it, which I would prefer to avoid.

I've asked the GM if I can pay someone to enchant it separatedly with it's own advancement, but she noped it stating that the item is an artifact and grows in power on its own, which is the answer I was expecting

Thanks for the input anyway

[Rebel7284]

Get more limbs? Totemist comes to mind.
Edit: Doesn't Warshaper also give you morphic weapons? Take it early?

[Troacctid]

If you can't add the mouthpick property, then your only option AFAIK is to either gain an extra hand that functions while shapeshifted, e.g. the crawling hand warlock invocation; or to somehow gain a telekinetic ability that lets you wield weapons without holding them, e.g. master of the unseen hand (CW).

[Thurbane]

Expensive, but the Arms of the Naga (56,000gp) or Gloves of Man (42,000gp) items from Savage Species should work, if donned after shapeshifting.

[ciopo]

Get more limbs? Totemist comes to mind.
Edit: Doesn't Warshaper also give you morphic weapons? Take it early?
I am in fact taking my first level of warshaper my next level, which is the earliest I could qualify for it, I doubt the GM is going to okay growing a "manipulator" instead of a natural attack fleshthing, but I'll ask.
if I were to adjudicate it myself, I'd say maybe because shapeshift variant specifically calls out the predator form as not having the finesse for object using, but morphic weapon could well bypass that being a more advanced option, uhmm. I'll get back to you about this :D
I know very little of Magic of Incarnum, where it comes from is about all I know about totemist :D would these extra hands be there while in the equivalent of a wild shape? I guess I know what I will be googling about tomorrow, thank you!


If you can't add the mouthpick property, then your only option AFAIK is to either gain an extra hand that functions while shapeshifted, e.g. the crawling hand warlock invocation; or to somehow gain a telekinetic ability that lets you wield weapons without holding them, e.g. master of the unseen hand (CW).
I'm not finding this crawling hand invocation, what's the sourcebook? I admit I've only checked complete arcane because warlock is not something on my usual repertoire,I've done a quick search in the handbook in your sic, but "crawling" only finds the eye, not a hand. But I do have some level allowance for a dip, so that's a concrete possibility if you can point me to where that invocation is (web content is fine, wizards archives being down notwithstanding), thank you!
master of the unseen hand would be cool but I don't see how I could qualify :\ , not without an heavier level investment in arcane spellcasters than I can afford


Expensive, but the Arms of the Naga (56,000gp) or Gloves of Man (42,000gp) items from Savage Species should work, if donned after shapeshifting.
that's interesting, but GM vetoed 3.0 feats that weren't updated to 3.5 before, so I suspect Savage species content is a no go :(, I'm going to check if these items are on the MiC , or if I'll be allowed to craft a custom item with a similar effect since I took crafting wondrous items to make myself wilding clasps for later on when it's affordable to do so, at this point I'm considering making something like a "wondrous item of animate weapon 3/day", but the weapon "BAB" is going to be terrible in comparison so that's a meh solution.
Thank you all the same, maybe I can get some Gloves of Man equivalent approved, that would fit neatly my "needs"

[Troacctid]

I am in fact taking my first level of warshaper my next level, which is the earliest I could qualify for it, I doubt the GM is going to okay growing a "manipulator" instead of a natural attack fleshthing, but I'll ask.
if I were to adjudicate it myself, I'd say maybe because shapehisft variant specifically calls out the predator form as not having the finesse for object using, but morphic weapon could well bypass that being a more advanced option, uhmm. I'll get back to you about this :D
I know very little of Maigc of Incarnum, where it comes form is about all I know about totemist :D would these extra hands be there while in the equivalent of a wild shape? I guess I know what I will be googling about tomorrow, thank you!
The girallon arms soulmeld gives you two extra arms when bound to your totem chakra (requires 2 levels of totemist) and functions normally while shapeshifted; however, while the extra arms count as arms for things that care about the number of arms you have, like the Multitasking feat, they're not useful for wielding weapons.


I'm not finding this crawling hand invocation, what's the sourcebook? I admit I've only checked complete arcane because warlock is not something on my usual repertoire, but I do have some level allowance for a dip, so that's a concrete possibility, thank you!
Complete Mage.


master of the unseen hand would be cool but I don't see how I could qualify :\ , not without an heavier level investment in arcane spellcasters than I can afford
Technically, it doesn't require any arcane spellcasting, only the ability to cast telekinesis.

[ciopo]

The girallon arms soulmeld gives you two extra arms when bound to your totem chakra (requires 2 levels of totemist) and functions normally while shapeshifted; however, while the extra arms count as arms for things that care about the number of arms you have, like the Multitasking feat, they're not useful for wielding weapons.
I'll check that tomorrow, I'm kind of falling asleep and trying to ignore the "there are things that needs RESEARCH!" itch at this lateish hour

Complete Mage.
thank you, as a side note you do not have it listed on your warlockpedia handbook , I assume you mean Disembodied hand which I am reading about right now?
Unless I'm misremembering how warlocks works, since it's a lesser invocation I would need at least 6 levels of warlock ( or of PrC that grants/advance invocations , which I have no idea if some exists at all, I'll have to read your handy handbook TOMORROW),right?

Technically, it doesn't require any arcane spellcasting, only the ability to cast telekinesis. Yeah but with telekinesis being a 5th level arcane at the least, I don't see how I could obtain it, my GM doesn't allow for "temporary" fullfilling of requirements, I can't take feats that improve natural attacks for example, so I very much doubt she would allow me to qualify for unseen hand just because I get my paws on a telekinesis 1/day object of some kind

[Thurbane]

This was brought to my attention in another thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?607945-3-5-Items-for-Nonhumanoid-Creatures), but the Opposable weapon quality might help:


Opposable (Masters of the Wild, pg 28 according to the internet) -- This is a huge one; a +1 weapon enhancement that allows you to wield the weapon with a natural weapon instead of a hand. +1 bonus.
...main issue is that as a 3.0 source, your DM may not like it. Also, you already mentioned adding enhancements to the existing artifact may be questionable.

[ciopo]

Hey there =) I was gearing up some feedback, but didn't want to doublepost and editing my latest post again when this thread was slipping away made me think it wouldn't be seen by those that have tried to help me so far.

I've done some due diligence in researching up what you winsome forum dwellers have brought to my attention, a dip of 2 on totemism for 4 extra claws attack are right now appealing to me, since that would frontload a lot of attacks on the flyby dive with "full attack-on-charge" shenanigans assuming the first round of combat (or of preparation) would be standard action lion's charge, swift morphing to aerial form, move up and slighty away to have the range to do the dive on round 2 ( 1st level of nature's warrior is to bring my manouvrability to perfect, on top of the sweet extra 30 feet of flight speed beside doing the unlock on the flyby)

That is however, beside the original point :( , I'm left stumped about using the artifact weapon, I find the disembodied hand cool, but 6 levels of warlock is too big an investment when the reason I want to be able to use the weapon in the first place is mostly flavour anyway :D

likewise the Master of the unseen hand, I've tried to see if a tattoomancy(from the campaign book) tattoo of "1/day telekinesis" would qualify me since the GM previously ruled that since the tattoos are less transient than items, they count for fullfilling prerequisites / daily resources ( an amulet of wis+2 does not grant an extra spell slot to cleric/druids, a tattoo of wis+2 does ) , but she vetoed the telekinesis item on the basis of "telekinesis isn't on the druid list, in this case a tattoo doesn't qualify just like a scroll wouldn't, I'm reading the prerequisite as "have telekinesis(or equivalent) on the spell knowns and have a high enough slot", I'm paraphrasing some since I'm translating form our native language .

I've considered asking the GM if she would allow crafting a wondrous item "of the disembodied hand" , but I decided not to because the "at will" nature and "continous" duration are irky, on principle it could be equivalent to a 4th level spell item, so that'd be 4*6*2000/5 for a 1/day , activation "take one glove off, but not the other", but I feel uncomfortable reducing a warlock ability to a 1/day, so the 100 charges needed for making an at will item puts that too far away in the future to be relevant

the various items suggested are out of budget for the levels where weapons are still relevant, besides the problem of being 3.0



in the end, I think I'll switch the weapon back to being a composite bow ( it has an artifact power of changing the kind of weapon it is, once per level) and get the profiency feat to better sell the lie that I'm just a mundane hunter, no caster to see here mister inquisitor.

thanks everybody for the feedback

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The warforged mighty arms graft is a pair of cybernetic arms that can be grafted to your body, which shouldn't change when you shapeshift -- at least, not enough to make any difference in how it functions. And it's only 1,000 gp for the set. So wield the weapon using the hands you get. Much cheaper than the gloves of man and naga arms.

You could add morphing to the weapon and turn it into the aforementioned necklace of natural weapons. Even better if the necklace affects your unarmed strikes and claw attacks, and you take the Beast Strike feat from Dragon #355, which adds your claw damage to your unarmed damage so you can make iteratives using your claweapon damage.

Maybe a (spiked?) gauntlet that adds its goodies to your unarmed strikes, which anything with limbs can use? Gauntlets are a weapon type, and you don't need Improved Unarmed Strike to use them, so long as you're proficient.

You could even use more than one of the above.

You have options, here, is what I'm saying.