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Catch
2007-10-22, 05:31 PM
I'm kind of livid right now. Seriously. Maybe this should go in the Depression Thread but I'd rather get this typed out first. Your forgiveness, please, if my rant is misplaced.

TL;DR Summary: My car's broke and I'm pissed.

Sit down kids, it's Story Time!

I've had this car for two years, give or take. It's a '99 model and had been running relatively well up until the last couple of months. While driving recently, my car began to act unusually if intermittently. The RPMs would jump way up then drop down, sometimes multiple times in succession, causing the car to lurch forward and producing several uncomfortable thuds. Since the problem persisted, I hypothesized that my vehicle had a transmission problem and after conferring with my parents, I took my car to a local mechanic. Said mechanic was happy to work on my car and take trade dollars, so in it went. Something like a week later, I'm told they replaced the torn motor mounts--supposedly the cause of the problem--and my brakes, to the tune of fifteen hundred dollars. It's a chunk out of the wallet, but we were glad to have it fixed.

I get my car back, I'm happy to have it working again. Or so I expected. I drove it for less than a week before the car started acting up again. Grudgingly I take it back to the mechanic to have it fixed. After I explain the problem, the mechanic tells me that no, it's not the same issue at all; what they fixed had nothing to do with the current problem. He suggests I take one of the mechanics out for a test drive and the car refuses to act up until the last mile. He tells me that it's clearly a transmission problem and no, they don't do that. I'm given a phone number for a somewhat-local mechanic that services transmissions and waved off the lot. Fine. A new trans would set me back twenty-four hundred dollars more but I hope for the best and head to the suggested shop. They gladly take my vehicle and a week later I'm handed a three-hundred dollar bill for the replacement of a mass airflow sensor, whatever that is. Apparently it was malfunctioning and throwing the car out of gear. Again, I'm glad to have my car back without another four-digit bill.

Or so I expected. Heading to school from an early morning of picking my car up, there's a bit of a hiccup on the way home. I shrug it off, figuring it was just my imagination. Wrong! The damn thing goes right back to the same old problem. Le sigh. A day or so later, I take it back to the mechanic and explain that it's still doing the same thing. They take the car, I shrug and figure that this time they'll get it right. No! I get a call a few days later and I'm told that the car's not doing anything. Nothing's wrong so they can't fix it. Great. I take it back, assuming the problem worked itself out. No, of course not. The car goes back. After week of it "not doing anything," the mechanic finally tells me that they fixed a short in the engine and that it should be just fine now. He says they even drove it around an extra day just to make sure. Hooray, car's fixed! Except not. I get barely a mile from the lot and, of course, the stupid car is still doing the same damn thing. The mechanic won't take it because they can't find anything wrong with it, so I'm stuck driving it for a while.

Since the first mechanic I visited is closer, I decide to go to them and see if they can spot the problem. I take it in one day when it's malfunctioning and as soon as a mechanic steps in the car, it purrs like a kitten and I feel like a jackass. He even takes it out by himself just to make sure. No, it's shifting just fine. I wait a week or so and take it back. After being brushed off for lack of time, I finally get another chance to prove that there's something really wrong with my car. Oddly, the mechanic who drives it this time is the very same one who originally told me it was a transmission problem. We get barely a block away from the shop and the car makes its series of awkward thuds; the mechanic tells me that it's still the transmission he doesn't know why the other shop didn't look at it. The shop which specializes in transmission work didn't bother to check the part they service most. The mechanic gives me a business card with his name and says to have the other shop call him.

This brings me to today. I borrow my dad's van to go to class, he drives my crapmobile to his shop where he'll take it to the trans mechanic since I'm busy. Or so I expected. My date falls through so I have plenty of free time to spend with my crappy car. I trek out to my dad's shop and drive my car over to the trans place. I park it, take my house key off the ring and stride in, ready to have this thing finally settled. After explaining my tale and handing over the business card from the other shop, I'm asked by the owner if my car is acting up right now. Well, no. He tells me to come back when it is because they consistently haven't found anything wrong with it. But the other guy said it's the transmission. I have a business card. Right here in my hand. Take it. Call him. Fix my damn car. No. I'm told that his mechanic has to see the problem before he can fix it. I'm to come back later when the car is actually acting up and then he'll take a look at it. I nod politely and walk out with my keys in my white-knuckled fist.

The damn thing bucked like a bronco all the way home.

Brickwall
2007-10-22, 05:37 PM
You have obviously offended the little god of your car. Attempt to get back in its good graces in other ways than having it being manhandled by greasy men. Offer sacrifices. Burn some meat. I hear brisket works wonders. Certainly not as expensive as all that work you've had done.

StickMan
2007-10-22, 05:57 PM
How much did you buy this car for?

And by any chance did you desecrate a graveyard haunted by a mechanic?

Midnight Son
2007-10-22, 08:06 PM
I learned this lesson years ago.

Never take your car to a local mechanic unless you know them personally and trust them completely. They will screw you faster than you can say bad lube job. It is always worth the slight extra cost to take your car to the dealer for repairs.

Catch
2007-10-22, 08:10 PM
I learned this lesson years ago.

Never take your car to a local mechanic unless you know them personally and trust them completely. They will screw you faster than you can say bad lube job. It is always worth the slight extra cost to take your car to the dealer for repairs.

See, I find this funny. Not five minutes ago someone told me to never go to the dealership mechanic.

Anyway, the reason I didn't in the first place was so I could get the repairs done on trade dollars. Unfortunately, I didn't get the right repairs done. :smallannoyed:

Syka
2007-10-22, 08:27 PM
How much is your car worth? I kid you not in saying at this point, it might be cheaper to just get another car. We eventually traded our van in because the repairs going in to keeping it running were more than the dang thing itself. oO

Cheers,
Syka

StickMan
2007-10-22, 08:48 PM
trade dollars.

Trade what now?

Catch
2007-10-22, 08:55 PM
Trade what now?

Trade dollars are a kind of barter system. Small business owners can get together to buy and sell their goods and services on trade instead of passing money around.

Example: My stepmom owns a card and gift shop and takes trade dollars. Let's say that a plumber's wife decides to order invitations for his daughter's wedding from my stepmom and wants to pay on trade. My stepmom accepts 50% trade, so if his bill was $500, he could pay $250 in cash and the rest in trade. My stepmom would have $250 added to her trade account which she could spend at any business that takes trade dollars. If a pipe burst in our house, she could have that same plumber fix our pipes on trade instead of paying all in cash.


How much is your car worth? I kid you not in saying at this point, it might be cheaper to just get another car. We eventually traded our van in because the repairs going in to keeping it running were more than the dang thing itself. oO

Cheers,
Syka

No idea. Considering that last winter we had about $5000 worth of body work done (I crashed it ><), I'm comfortable saying that we've easily bought a whole new car with the money that's been spent on it, though.

StickMan
2007-10-22, 09:19 PM
Trade dollars are a kind of barter system. Small business owners can get together to buy and sell their goods and services on trade instead of passing money around.

Example: My stepmom owns a card and gift shop and takes trade dollars. Let's say that a plumber's wife decides to order invitations for his daughter's wedding from my stepmom and wants to pay on trade. My stepmom accepts 50% trade, so if his bill was $500, he could pay $250 in cash and the rest in trade. My stepmom would have $250 added to her trade account which she could spend at any business that takes trade dollars. If a pipe burst in our house, she could have that same plumber fix our pipes on trade instead of paying all in cash.


Ah I've herd about that, think that is about all that can be said about that with out it being political so I will not ask anymore questions.

Zeb The Troll
2007-10-23, 06:27 AM
I learned this lesson years ago.

Never take your car to a local mechanic unless you know them personally and trust them completely. They will screw you faster than you can say bad lube job. It is always worth the slight extra cost to take your car to the dealer for repairs.See, I find this funny. Not five minutes ago someone told me to never go to the dealership mechanic.

Anyway, the reason I didn't in the first place was so I could get the repairs done on trade dollars. Unfortunately, I didn't get the right repairs done. :smallannoyed:I haven't found dealer mechanics to be any more competent than any other shop mechanic. They just charge more. They also tend to not delve into problems for the sake of turn around.

What I mean by that is that if a sub-system is showing symptoms of being problematic, rather than fixing the sytem, they'll replace it. As an example, they will rarely fix a transmission instead of replacing it.

On the other hand, dealer mechanics tend to "find" fewer problems that don't really exist. You won't hear any stories about your blinker fluid being low from a dealer.

Finding a reputable, qualified, mechanic is like striking oil.

Supagoof
2007-10-23, 12:03 PM
Hear hear Zeb.

As a home mechanic (no professinal training, just what I learned from dad in the garage) I myself find trusting anyone with my car an issue. But I will say this.

Dealerships don't make a lot of their money in car sales. Seriously - the percentage they get is little compared to their overall profits.

They make their money by offering the repair services for cars and financing. Since it's a big portion of their income, they won't mess around with turning you into an angry customer.

Also, the mechanics that work in the dealerships - they work on very similar cars over and over again. Cars of the same make and model tend to have the same issues. So not only do you have a shop mechanic who only works on your type of car, you also have one that has probably seen that issue before. Where non-dealership mechanics deal with a variety of cars, so the group the problems by root cause. They tend to be cheaper since they deal in more quantity (by accepting more various types of cars) and also because they can avoid some of the higher fixed wages a dealership has to charge (there is a national set per hour charge for time mechanics spend on a car) by charging a little more for parts to make up the difference. They use that wiggle room to price themselves lower overall. But if you ever have done any economics study, you know that quantity is usually inverse of quality. So the more cars they can get in = more cars not getting the detail needed to fix the whole problem, not just part.

Sounds like the mechanics looked at common root causes for your cars issues. The MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor reads the amount of air being brought into the car to adjust for gas mixture. When one of these goes out, a simple test can tell the mechanic it's toast (because it's an electrical part.) And symptoms such as the car lurching is common with one of them being out. As the car is expected a certain gas-air ratio, and getting something different due to the MAF sensor being out, it's more likely to misfire.

You mentioned later that the car had a wiring short. One thing I would have them check is to see if the short may have caused that MAF senser to break again. The short may have caused it to break in the first place, and if it wasn't repaired until the second time, may have broken it again.

Also, you should know that a transmission shop doesn't do much work with the fuel system (which includes the MAF sensor.) or electric system (again with the MAF sensor) Transmission shops usually open up the transmission, check to see if the gears are in place and the clutches aren't too worn. The check the transmission pan to see if there are any filings or debree which is caused by a transmission going bad. Since they are transmission specialist and most transmissions are similar - they can tell really quick if a transmission is not behaving properly. If it's a system outside of the transmission that is the cause, they are going to have a really hard time figuring that one out, as they don't work with the other systems much.

So, now that I've done a lot of explaining, here's what you should do.
Take the car again back to your original mechanic. Have him test the MAF sensor. If that check comes up bad, take the car back to where you got the original MAF sensor replaced and have them replace it again under warrenty. If it does come up good, then take it into a dealership. You'll find they will be very fast in finding and resolving the problem. (Because they've seen it before and also because they have the parts they need on hand.)

I hope this helps. Send me a PM if you need any more advice.

Catch
2007-10-23, 12:14 PM
Thanks Supagoof, I appreciate the advice and I'll mention that when I take it in again.

Considering what I've been told, though, I'm not sure what to believe. The first mechanic--who has seen the car act up more than once--tells me that it's the transmission and that if the problem had been the MAF, he'd have replaced it himself. He explained that the RPMs were unusually high at certain points, especially coming out of a stop, and that the clunking & lurching was the car falling out of gear. Since he doesn't stand to make any money off me with that assessment, I'm inclined to believe him. On top of that, no one's actually looked at the trans yet, as far as I've been told, though the second mechanic told me that the car's computer hadn't listed anything wrong with the transmission.

Thoughts? Once again, I appreciate all the help.

Syka
2007-10-23, 01:04 PM
I still stand by you're probably better off just getting another car than putting more money into this one. At a certain point, it just isn't worth it.

Cheers,
Syka

Supagoof
2007-10-24, 12:54 PM
Thanks Supagoof, I appreciate the advice and I'll mention that when I take it in again.

Considering what I've been told, though, I'm not sure what to believe. The first mechanic--who has seen the car act up more than once--tells me that it's the transmission and that if the problem had been the MAF, he'd have replaced it himself. He explained that the RPMs were unusually high at certain points, especially coming out of a stop, and that the clunking & lurching was the car falling out of gear. Since he doesn't stand to make any money off me with that assessment, I'm inclined to believe him. On top of that, no one's actually looked at the trans yet, as far as I've been told, though the second mechanic told me that the car's computer hadn't listed anything wrong with the transmission.

Thoughts? Once again, I appreciate all the help. Well the RPMs could be high at those points to compensate for the mixture of fuel - MAF controls this. Tranmissions have little control on RPMs, so a transmission problem would not lead to the higher RPMs. The falling out of gear puts me at a bit of a loss, as even with a MAF not functioning properly, it still shouldn't kick the car out of gear.

Can I ask what kind of car it is? Might help me figure out a bit more with it. You mentioned a 99 above, so 16 years is a bit of wear and is a good indicator that the car is reaching the end of it's lifespan. And how many miles does it have?

I had a 91 lincoln continental that had tranny problems. The transmission kept on eating up gears due to odd shifting patterns. It threw the transmission shop I took it too for a loop - they kept blaming it on something outside of the tranny, yet it's the tranny that kept having the problem. Turns out, an electrical control for the transmission was shorting out because the plastic housing around it was cracked. This in turn made the transmission shift incorrectly and caused the gears to litterally turn against themselves (like throwing your car into reverse when your drinving down the street). A little bit of silicon to seal up the crack and the tranny worked as smooth as the day it rolled off the line. Though I'm glad I bought the lifetime warrenty for that transmission job.

I wonder if your car is having a similar issue. If it's electrical, most transmission places don't cover electrical under their types of transmission repair (probably because electrical has to deal with the cars PC - which controls a lot more then just the tranny). I can probably find out more if I knew the type of car (even though I'm a weekend mechanic, I do have friends that are shop certified.)

I agree with Syka though - if it's getting to be too much a money pit to keep investing more into parts and labor on the car, you might consider getting another one. That lincoln mentioned above I had to let go because shortly after I got the transmission fixed, the engine blew a header gasket. Once I repaired that, the alternator went. It was at the point where I was spending monthly in repairs on that car an amount I could have been spending on a new car payment. Also, if you don't drive a manual, I suggest learning. Not only do manuals last longer (the transmission in manuals have no where near the repair costs and maintenance as automatics), but cars that have them are cheaper. Just a thought.