conquest paladin MC thoughts

[Taebyn]

I'm going to be playing in a short (6 monthish) campaign soon. I know I want to try out paladin and have ended up on conquest as it fits my backstory best. The interesting part is that the dm is testing gestalt 3 on this short campaign. Which means as your main class levels your gestalt class levels as well, up to 3 in this instance. It's incredibly powerful but the DM has done a lot of house ruling on healing etc to keep us in check. We shall see how much I can milk out of this. That's where I need your help! I'm torn on which class to gestalt. So many good options and hopefully someone else's point of view can give me more insight.

Battle Master 3: fighting style, second wind, action surge, Maneuvers! (specifically Menacing to queue fear for paladin 7 aura) This is what I'm thinking of going with because the free chances at frightening opponents with a save queued off of my STR. This would allow me to use STR more efficiently than solely rely on wrathful smite or the menacing feat.

Sorcerer 3: It could be almost any of the sorcerer's, I'd be in it for meta magic. Twinning green flame blade at early levels seems pretty strong. As well as careful spell web etc.

Hexblade 3: all the normal hexblade SAD goodness. I'm honestly leaning against this one due to the conflict of paladin/warlock. Yeah I get that its legal but feels like a conflict of interest in my character.

Which would you choose? Or am I missing something better? Thanks

[Lord Vukodlak]

I'm going to be playing in a short (6 monthish) campaign soon. I know I want to try out paladin and have ended up on conquest as it fits my backstory best. The interesting part is that the dm is testing gestalt 3 on this short campaign. Which means as your main class levels your gestalt class levels as well, up to 3 in this instance. It's incredibly powerful but the DM has done a lot of house ruling on healing etc to keep us in check. We shall see how much I can milk out of this. That's where I need your help! I'm torn on which class to gestalt. So many good options and hopefully someone else's point of view can give me more insight.

Battle Master 3: fighting style, second wind, action surge, Maneuvers! (specifically Menacing to queue fear for paladin 7 aura) This is what I'm thinking of going with because the free chances at frightening opponents with a save queued off of my STR. This would allow me to use STR more efficiently than solely rely on wrathful smite or the menacing feat.

Sorcerer 3: It could be almost any of the sorcerer's, I'd be in it for meta magic. Twinning green flame blade at early levels seems pretty strong. As well as careful spell web etc.

Hexblade 3: all the normal hexblade SAD goodness. I'm honestly leaning against this one due to the conflict of paladin/warlock. Yeah I get that its legal but feels like a conflict of interest in my character.

Which would you choose? Or am I missing something better? Thanks
Sorcerer has its perks, but you can't twin green flame blade because it can target more then one creature. You can twin booming blade, or quicken green-flame blade. Also keep in mind their is some debate as to how careful spell actually works. Many people rule that it only functions when you cast the spell and won't effect saving throws made at other times.

I do question how do the spell slots work.... say your a 7th level conquest paladin with 3 gestated sorcerer. Are they simply tracked separately? Are they added together in some hybrid multi-class mix. In normal multiclass you'd take your sorcerer levels and add half your paladin levels to determine your spell slots. But that doesn't quite work in this case.
In short say your a Conquest Paladin 7 with a Gestalt of 3 in Sorcerer how many spell slots do you have?

My best guess would be to treat the first 3 levels as sorcerer and the following levels as a multiclass into paladin.
So 3+(4 divided by 2)=5

But given the limited levels I'd do Hexblade, you can always roleplay the Hexblade powers are simply an extension of your Conquest powers. For the evocation I suggest Devil's Sight, lots of options for the second one, Beguiling Influence for some extra skill proficiency, Mask of Many faces gives at will disguise self which can offer a lot of opportunities.

For the pact, I'd go pact of the chain, with only 3 levels in warlock, a tiny scout with thumbs that can cast invisibility at will is going to give you the most milage.

[CTurbo]

Just 3 levels of the second class huh? Nothing is going to give you more in 3 levels than Warlock. Patron, Pact, short rest spells, and invocations! Everybody is going to go straight to Hexblade, but I think Fiend would fit the Conquest feel better. But there is an even better option. Archfey has a built in short rest FEAR ability which would be crazy strong for a Conquest Paladin so to me that makes Archfey a no-brainer pick. As far as Pacts go, either get you an intelligent familiar, or get more cantrips and all the rituals. Either would be great. I wouldn't even consider blade.

I wouldn't completely discount the Bard. Base class features are great. (Inspiration dice, Jack of all Trades, Song of Rest, Expertise)
Lore's Cutting Words fits the Conquest theme very well.
Sword's Blade Flourishes and second fighting style would be great.
Valor is not best option, but Combat Inspiration is still good to have.
Glamour doesn't really fit, but could be interesting.
Whispers is the best choice though. Psychic Blades is good, but Words or Terror is perfect for a Conquest!

If you can meet the 13 Dex prereq, Swashbuckler would be a fun addition. Admittedly it would work better for Devotion or Vengeance, but it could still work for a Conquest. Cunning Action, Expertise, Extra damage per turn, and half the Mobile feat.

Don't forget about Barbarian. Raging fits the Conquest theme well. Unarmored Defense is nice if you have the stats for it, but it's not necessary. You just can't wear heavy armor. Reckless Attack is awesome. Zealot is probably best, but Totem is always great too.

[Quoz]

A few oddballs that might pair well:

3 levels for a wizard school could be an interesting choice. Divination for a master tactician (and the possibility of guaranteed failure on a fear save) or war mage for improved defenses are both good choices. If you get insane stats a bladesinger could be fun but probably not going to be feasible.

Zealot barbarian gives an entirely different feel for a fear based character. You can still use smite and channel divinity while raging, so plenty of options there.

If you are going dexterity based, rogue can offer some versatility and a bit of extra action. Swashbuckler is probably your best option, giving both a great bonus to initiative and letting you move through the battlefield for optimal positioning.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Just 3 levels of the second class huh? Nothing is going to give you more in 3 levels than Warlock. Patron, Pact, short rest spells, and invocations! Everybody is going to go straight to Hexblade, but I think Fiend would fit the Conquest feel better. But there is an even better option. Archfey has a built in short rest FEAR ability which would be crazy strong for a Conquest Paladin so to me that makes Archfey a no-brainer pick. As far as Pacts go, either get you an intelligent familiar, or get more cantrips and all the rituals.

He can't get all rituals, first and most importantly the book of ancients secrets is limited by his warlock level so he can only get up to second level rituals. Secondly its arguable he can't take the invocation at all. A warlock gains two invocations at level 2 and a third one at level 5. But can't take "Tome of Ancients Secrets" until after he gets his pact at level 3.

You are however correct about the Archfey the short rest fear could be quite useful, but its not a clear winner over Hexblade, the Hexblade's Curse is still a very nice ability especially when combined with a paladin's smite.

[Keravath]

He can't get all rituals, first and most importantly the book of ancients secrets is limited by his warlock level so he can only get up to second level rituals. Secondly its arguable he can't take the invocation at all. A warlock gains two invocations at level 2 and a third one at level 5. But can't take "Tome of Ancients Secrets" until after he gets his pact at level 3.

You are however correct about the Archfey the short rest fear could be quite useful, but its not a clear winner over Hexblade, the Hexblade's Curse is still a very nice ability especially when combined with a paladin's smite.

"Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the invocations you know and replace it with another invocation that you could learn at that level"

A warlock can change invocations every time they level up in the class so there is no issue getting "Tome of Ancient Secrets" at 3rd level if they want it.

[Zeikin]

I do question how do the spell slots work.... say your a 7th level conquest paladin with 3 gestated sorcerer. Are they simply tracked separately? Are they added together in some hybrid multi-class mix. In normal multiclass you'd take your sorcerer levels and add half your paladin levels to determine your spell slots. But that doesn't quite work in this case.
In short say your a Conquest Paladin 7 with a Gestalt of 3 in Sorcerer how many spell slots do you have?

My best guess would be to treat the first 3 levels as sorcerer and the following levels as a multiclass into paladin.
So 3+(4 divided by 2)=5.
Nah- the DM is crazy. He rules them as separate classes, spell slots equal to whatever Pally’s get plus the slots from sorcerer.

[da newt]

I'd be tempted to 'keep it simple stupid' and stick to Bear Totem Barbarian. It may not be optimized, but you sure would be tough to kill.

Another option would be to combine YuanTi and Hexblade for SAD and all the saves. I also really like the Chain Pact and an IMP.

Shadow Blade would be lots of fun for a Pali too.

[Lord Vukodlak]

"Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the invocations you know and replace it with another invocation that you could learn at that level"

A warlock can change invocations every time they level up in the class so there is no issue getting "Tome of Ancient Secrets" at 3rd level if they want it.

Doesn't change the fact that
"On your Adventures, you can add other ritual Spells to your Book of Shadows. When you find such a spell, you can add it to the book if the spell’s level is equal to or less than half your Warlock level (rounded up)"
So he's limited to 2nd level rituals.

[Chugger]

If you go BM, they are very handy - but the most overwhelming use of BM is to make gwm or ss feats work. You only ever use Precision and convert misses into hits (this mitigates the -5 penalty for great weapon master pretty well).

A conqu pal who can wield a 2-hander and land +10 damage per blow would be pretty hard hitting.

[Lord Vukodlak]

If you go BM, they are very handy - but the most overwhelming use of BM is to make gwm or ss feats work. You only ever use Precision and convert misses into hits (this mitigates the -5 penalty for great weapon master pretty well).

A conqu pal who can wield a 2-hander and land +10 damage per blow would be pretty hard hitting.
Another big factor is with the 7th level aura reducing frightened creature's speed to zero. If you trip them they have no movement with which to stand up.

[Taebyn]

Thanks for the replies

[RogueJK]

Either Sorcerer or Bard are likely to be your best options.

Both get you higher level spell slots for extra Smiting, and some more spells known.

Sorcerer gets you Metamagic, so is likely the stronger option. Divine Soul gets you a wider array of spell options, especially buffs. They could make good use of Twinned or Quickened buff spells as well Booming Blade.

Bard gets you some more out of combat utility, and a few uses of Bardic Inspiration per day. Whispers fits well thematically, plus gets you additional psychic damage a few times per day.

[Avonar]

I've had a lot of fun with a Zealot Barb 3/Conqest Paladin X. It's a very hard to kill class, hard to keep dead class, and things like Armor of Agathys + Rage can have surprisingly nasty synergies.

[RogueJK]

Also, no matter what multiclass you choose, consider going Dragonborn. It not only has handy stat boosts for a Paladin, but also allows you to take the Dragon Fear half feat at 4th/8th, to give you yet another potential AoE source for the Frightened condition.

[CTurbo]

3 levels of Sorcerer only gets you 3 Sorcery points and IMO is not enough to bother with. Nice to have sure, but you can more from other classes from a free 3 level dip.

[Sception]

Hexblade Warlock is the strongest option. 3 levels gets you hex warrior, fixing your twinned attack stat ASI problems (you'll still need str 15 for plate armor, but it frees up your later asis), hexblades curse for a damage boost to use against frighten immune or resistant foes, a pair of level two spell slots that recharge on short rest to use on shield, cause fear, wrathful smite, divine smite, spiritual weapon, etc. You also grab a bunch of useful spells known - particularly booming blade, eldritch blast, shield, and cause fear. And a pact boon - imo chain is the best choice for you, as you don't need the blade invocations and tome's main benefits rely on taking more levels of warlock than you probably want to. Chain gets you a fantastic flying invisible familiar with hands to manipulate objects and a voice to speak, and it gets you access to the invocation 'gift of the ever living ones' that maximizes healing abilities and spells used on you, which is fantastic for a tank.

Sorcerer is a decent alternative choice - heighten spell in particular is a major get for conquerors, helping them land their all important frighten effects when they need to.

[CTurbo]

Are you rolling for stats or using point buy? And do you have to meet the "multiclass" requirements for the Gestalt build or even for your main class?

I'm really liking the idea of 3 levels of Zealot Barb. It would be hard to be effective using point buy. With Half-Elf, you could start 16 Str, 14 Dex, 14 Con, 8 Int, 9 Wis, and 15 Cha.

If point buy, I would probably go 3 levels of Archfey Warlock.... probably Chain pact. You could dump Str(or just start with 13 and leave it per multiclass rules) and concentrate on Dex and Cha.

[MrStabby]

So it think that a lot of the standard multiclass options have been covered.

Things get a bit more interesting if it side steps the multiclass requirements. Rogue adds a huge amount with three levels - consider a sword and board paladin with shield master, expertise in athletics, sneak attack on floored enemies, that advantage boosting crit chances, cunning action speeding you about the place, and a subclass on top.

Ranger is also potentially huge. For nova damage think about what a gloomstalker can pull off in round 1 of combat with that extra attack and hunters mark and the extra spell slots you will get.

Bard let's you take lore bard for epic lockdown. Wrathful smite is a skill check to escape. At disadvantage (because fear) and with a penalty from cutting words this is not trivial to shrug off.

Would you be amenable to swapping class priority? Consider swords bard with three levels of paladin. You will still get two attacks, you will get max smiting capability much earlier, still get the channel divinity, get your heavy armour and shield proficiency, and be able to use your inspiration to up your martial badassness. Dueling AND defence fighting styles.

[bendking]

Hexblade will definitely be the best bang for your buck if you're looking to optimize. Otherwise, pick whatever flavor you like.