OOTS #1194 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[HUMVEE Driver]

Hell yeah! I bet that's the first time Belkar heard that!

[Ruck]

I did think we were going to continue to get more of Roy and Julia, but I really enjoy the Minrah and Belkar pairing. She seems like a pretty good team motivator!

[Schroeswald]

I love Minrah so much (also, time to add another comic to my list of ones that say Belkar’s getting redeemed).

[Keltest]

Huh, talking to people helps sort out your thoughts. Go figure.

Also, go Belkar. Embrace that character development!

[The Black Cat]

As someone who transitioned last year, this one really spoke to me. :)

[Afghanistan]

That definitely speaks to me. I've been trying to go through some changes lately and it's really reassuring to know that after these changes are done, anyone else I know from this point on will only know the new me unless I show them the old me. Something I aspire to never do.

It's hard to be a new you.

[Peelee]

I always loved the MBA/Fighter College jokes, so Belkar turning it right back around was amazing.

There's still a whole book left, so I can't say with absolute certainty, but so far the setup and punchline in panel 2 makes for my favorite joke in the series so far.

As someone who transitioned last year, this one really spoke to me. :)
I didn't even think of it like that, but it's fantastic how well that applies!

[tcrudisi]

Everyone who meets you after you've changed only knows the new version of you.

I legit never thought about that before. It's deep.

And this character development by Belkar is amazing. He's always been one of my favorite characters, but to see him (presumably) being set up high before his fall/death is a bit sad to me.

[faustin]

Minrah reminding players that multiclassing should mean something for characters, besides min-maxing features.

[declinator]

Beautiful comic, lovely description of change and new friends.

But I don't get Minrah's final sentence. Maybe a second-language thing, but I'd really appreciate it if someone could enlighten me. Why keep eyes down at eye level?

Also, shouldn't it be "It'd be nice..." rather than "It's be nice" - or is that intentional?

[Peelee]

Everyone who meets you after you've changed only knows the new version of you.

I legit never thought about that before. It's deep.

And this character development by Belkar is amazing. He's always been one of my favorite characters, but to see him (presumably) being set up high before his fall/death is a bit sad to me.
If Belkar wasn't, then people like me would just go "finally!" when he died. Now I almost certainly won't.

Beautiful comic, lovely description of change and new friends.

But I don't get Minrah's final sentence. Maybe a second-language thing, but I'd really appreciate it if someone could enlighten me. Why keep eyes down at eye level?

Also, shouldn't it be "It'd be nice..." rather than "It's be nice" - or is that intentional?

Theyre super short. Eye level for them is like 1 meter up, instead on almost 2.

[Friv]

Beautiful comic, lovely description of change and new friends.

But I don't get Minrah's final sentence. Maybe a second-language thing, but I'd really appreciate it if someone could enlighten me. Why keep eyes down at eye level?

Also, shouldn't it be "It'd be nice..." rather than "It's be nice" - or is that intentional?

It's because Minrah is a dwarf, and Belkar is a halfling. All the tall people around them keep their eyes at human eye level, i.e. looking right over Minrah's head.

[Keltest]

Beautiful comic, lovely description of change and new friends.

But I don't get Minrah's final sentence. Maybe a second-language thing, but I'd really appreciate it if someone could enlighten me. Why keep eyes down at eye level?

Also, shouldn't it be "It'd be nice..." rather than "It's be nice" - or is that intentional?

Its a short joke. Possibly also a reference to certain notorious female comic characters breaking the fourth wall to direct the reader to look them in the eye instead of at their cleavage. But definitely a short joke.

[Rollin]

Minrah at her most impressive yet... and she has no idea what she may have just accomplished. And if Belkar strictly follows her advice, she never will.

[Akkristor]

Beautiful comic, lovely description of change and new friends.

But I don't get Minrah's final sentence. Maybe a second-language thing, but I'd really appreciate it if someone could enlighten me. Why keep eyes down at eye level?

Also, shouldn't it be "It'd be nice..." rather than "It's be nice" - or is that intentional?


Since Minrah is a dwarf, 'eye level' for her is much lower than for most other races, so to look them in the eye, she has to look up.

[Rollin]

Also, shouldn't it be "It'd be nice..." rather than "It's be nice" - or is that intentional?
Definitely a mistake for "It'd".

[D.One]

Beautiful comic, lovely description of change and new friends.

But I don't get Minrah's final sentence. Maybe a second-language thing, but I'd really appreciate it if someone could enlighten me. Why keep eyes down at eye level?

Also, shouldn't it be "It'd be nice..." rather than "It's be nice" - or is that intentional?

The eye level part has already been explained.

I believe, given the proximity of "s" and "d" in regular keyboards, that the "It's" is a typo.




Also. That's why I love Minrah. She's nice, enthusiastic, and has this tendency to overexplain that is just gold (this last one I firmly relate to).

[PontificatusRex]

Up til now, I was thinking that Belkar's best afterlife option would be reveling in the eternal chaos of Limbo. With Minrah's help, he might just make it to the big party in Valhalla.

[Angrith]

Minrah and Belkar are adorable, bonding over short jokes like that. She also seems to be following Durkon's tactic of "super-ultimating" character growth for Belkar, and he's responding! Woot!

[DaOldeWolf]

I find the message here to be absolutely beautiful. I wish more people would give it a try more frequently. :smallsmile:

[137beth]

Minrah must have a very different view of the Order, given that she hasn't scene what they were like in DCF.
And IIRC The Giant's commentary said something to that effect already, but now we're getting to see it for ourselves.

[Lexible]

I laughed out loud at "I already am because I'm a cleric!"

:smallbiggrin:

[NerdyKris]

Its a short joke. Possibly also a reference to certain notorious female comic characters breaking the fourth wall to direct the reader to look them in the eye instead of at their cleavage. But definitely a short joke.

I don't think that reference works, since she'd still be saying to keep their eyes up in that instance instead of down.

[BisectedBrioche]

As someone who transitioned last year, this one really spoke to me. :)

As someone who came out 4 odd years ago, it spoke to me. Especially since I'm living in spaces where a lot of people knew me before and spaces where people didn't (the contrast is pretty obvious).

Even the joke in the last panel spoke to me (I have to remind some people to look me in the eye* when I didn't before).

I guess that's what Tolkien called "applicability".

*not that I'm great with eye contact. :smallwink:

[Fyraltari]

Jokes and character interactions. Nice.


I didn't even think of it like that, but it's fantastic how well that applies!
Ain't applicability the best thing?
EDIT: Ninja'd. Also the the previous thread is still pinned somehow.

Minrah and Belkar are adorable, bonding over short jokes like that. She also seems to be following Durkon's tactic of "super-ultimating" character growth for Belkar, and he's responding! Woot!
Not even, she's just met him remember? She doesn't know he has anything to reedeem, as far a she knows he's just a tough cool-looking ranger/barbarian who is confused by his feelings for other people (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1115.html) but still willing to fight a bunch of vampires for them. She probably assumes he was raised away from human (halfling, elvish, dwarfish, ...) contact. Hell she probably has him pegged as CN or even CG.

[ref]

Oooh, Minrah. You don't know what you're doing! She's a great addition to the team.

[Jay R]

I looks like Belkar is about to give Belkar permission to be better. Who'da thought it?

[Celticbear]

That little Belkar smile in the bottom left is so wholesome

Belkar, wholesome, same sentence... dang, we really are close to the edge...

[allenw]

Belkar is *so* doomed (physically, anyway).

I mean, he's technically been doomed ever since Roy's last visit to the Oracle, but now he's rush-order *extra* doomed.

[Zherog]

I needed that pep talk more than I ever knew I did, with some stuff going on in my life. Thanks, Rich.

[ByzantiumBhuka]

That little Belkar smile in the bottom left is so wholesome

How many times has Belkar actually smiled like that in this whole webcomic before now?

Great comic, as always.

[BisectedBrioche]

Belkar is *so* doomed (physically, anyway).

I mean, he's technically been doomed ever since Roy's last visit to the Oracle, but now he's rush-order *extra* doomed.

Don't be hasty. He's not shown anyone a photo of Mr. Scruffy yet.

[Personification]

Minrah must have a very different view of the Order, given that she hasn't scene what they were like in DCF.
And IIRC The Giant's commentary said something to that effect already, but now we're getting to see it for ourselves.

The implications of this sentence blew my mind. She must think they are good at planning. She must think they know what they are doing!:smalleek:

[Psychronia]

Aaaah. I love Minrah. Mangled speeches and all. She's got a great attitude, and that alone makes her a great contribution to the team.

[Keltest]

How many times has Belkar actually smiled like that in this whole webcomic before now?

Great comic, as always.

He used to do it rather frequently. His disposition has soured somewhat as the comic has gone on and he's come to terms with the fact that the party doesn't like him and he gets no satisfaction from being the token gratuitously evil member of the party anymore.

[CriticalFailure]

Minrah's overexplaining is the best.

It's fun to see so many different combinations of characters talking to each other. I wonder if we will get a conversation between Haley and V.

[Gluteus_Maximus]

Flags for "Belkar's death being super sad" being flown straight ahead, Captain Bandana.

Love Minrah's character so much. She's simpler than most but she has wisdom like nothing else.

[Cicciograna]

And suddenly I like Minrah much more.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I don't think that reference works, since she'd still be saying to keep their eyes up in that instance instead of down.

I took it to be an inversion of the original joke, which is a type of reference. Sure, here it is a complain about people looking past her head instead of at her breasts, but the feeling behind it is the same: being overlooked because of a physical characteristic she has no control over, and a feeling she'd prefer if others took a bit of care to look at her eyes when she's talking rather than anywhere else. While at the same time being a feeling she can share with Belkar, which the original reference does not.

Frogs, jokes, dissection, you know the drill.

Grey Wolf

[Linneris]

As someone who went through the kind of experience Minrah is talking about, and didn't regret it one bit, I approve of this message.

[Calavera]

I don't think that reference works, since she'd still be saying to keep their eyes up in that instance instead of down.

The inversion of the trope is what makes it funny. If there wasn't the trope of the buxom heroine upset people are staring at her boobs Minrah's line wouldn't be funny, it would just be a random "I wish people would look me in the eyes" moan.

[gatemansgc]

Definitely a mistake for "It'd".

agreed. the giant will probably have that fixed by the end of the day and then people reading this comic days or weeks or years later will be like O_o

also yay for forums return! i kind of liked using the OOTS subreddit while it was gone. seems like we got some fancy new modern code for the sidebar!

[KorvinStarmast]

Frogs, jokes, dissection, you know the drill.
Nice to see a return of the Lupine to the comic discourse. (Or perhaps I never drop into the threads that you like about MiTD?)

As to the strip.
Minrah?
I think she Minrocks! :smallsmile:

(Hmm, my attempted jest on Return of the Native, on second thought, really doesn't scan worth a hoot)

[gatemansgc]

How many times has Belkar actually smiled like that in this whole webcomic before now?

Great comic, as always.

genuine happy smile? quite rare.

evil and i love it smile? those were more common.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Nice to see a return of the Lupine to the comic discourse. (Or perhaps I never drop into the threads that you like about MiTD?)

Nah, I've been practically gone for some time, and only now starting to come back. I put myself in the naughty box after one too many red cards from the mods, for my and their mental health.

Grey Wolf

[KorvinStarmast]

Nah, I've been practically gone for some time, and only now starting to come back. I put myself in the naughty box after one too many red cards from the mods, for my and their mental health. Welcome back! :smallbiggrin: Glad to "see" you again.

[Rogar Demonblud]

And just like that Minrah is in the running for Awesomest Character of the Book.

[Fyraltari]

Nah, I've been practically gone for some time, and only now starting to come back. I put myself in the naughty box after one too many red cards from the mods, for my and their mental health.

Grey Wolf

Ah, I had wondered what happened.
Glad, that you’re back.

Maybe I should try the naughty box technique as well.

[bunsen_h]

Seeing a very young spellcaster analyzing what she can do got me wondering: is the OotS world still entirely based on 3.5E (not counting house rules idiosyncratic modifications for story purposes)? Or have things switched over to 5E at some point? Or: anyone born / anything newly created after some point gets to be 5E-based, while older people/things are stuck at 3.5E?

Considering that the entire story began with the characters being updated to 3.5E. :smallyuk: I just received my book shipment a couple of weeks ago, and have been going through the story from the beginning.

[gatemansgc]

Nah, I've been practically gone for some time, and only now starting to come back. I put myself in the naughty box after one too many red cards from the mods, for my and their mental health.

Grey Wolf

you don't seem the type to get in trouble with the mods O_o

[Rogar Demonblud]

The story is 3.5 based, in that Rich has no interest in changing it at this point. I'm we'll shortly have our first Banana Summoning of the new forums to provide the appropriate quote.

[Fyraltari]

Seeing a very young spellcaster analyzing what she can do got me wondering: is the OotS world still entirely based on 3.5E (not counting house rules idiosyncratic modifications for story purposes)? Or have things switched over to 5E at some point? Or: anyone born / anything newly created after some point gets to be 5E-based, while older people/things are stuck at 3.5E?

Considering that the entire story began with the characters being updated to 3.5E. :smallyuk: I just received my book shipment a couple of weeks ago, and have been going through the story from the beginning.
OOTS will never by word of the author ugrade to any other rules because it would be a hassle and much (like myself) of the readership isn’t familiar with D&D to not get lost every time that happened by word of the author.

Also the comic has veered away from strict adherence to and reliance on D&D rules anyway.

[Ronan]

I can't curse, right? I wish I could, we Brazilians curse people in order to tell people we like them (heavy stuff as well, including mothers and such^^)

And I was a Belkar in my teens... got into fights often, ended up with very few friends indeed. So I really like his change. Seems like an angry teen player that annoyed people every game until people got fed up with him, threatened to kick him out and he started to be a team player because of his friends, but they didn't notice...

I really don't want a classic redemption arc for him, He'll die, but he could be recognized still alive, even as a good warrior for the team...

[Dragonus45]

Her story reminds me a lot of something J Mike Straczynski talked about in his biography, The Tyranny of Reasonable Voices. Where even well meaning and concerned people can dissuade you from taking that risk and changes classes or making some other big risky life choice. Then she turns that advice around and in pure ignorance of what a literal monster Belkar has been misinterprets his "not the do my best type" line to turn around and give him the most meaning full life advice I think anyone could have given him even though the context is so far off. It's somehow hilarious and devastatingly heartwarming and funny at the same time.

[Jasdoif]

Seeing a very young spellcaster analyzing what she can do got me wondering: is the OotS world still entirely based on 3.5E (not counting house rules idiosyncratic modifications for story purposes)? Or have things switched over to 5E at some point? Or: anyone born / anything newly created after some point gets to be 5E-based, while older people/things are stuck at 3.5E?The answer you're looking for is buried in the site news (http://www.giantitp.com/index2.html):


1/12/2012

So, Wizards of the Coast announced on Monday (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20120109) that they are working on a new edition of D&D which will almost certainly not be titled "5th Edition," but is functionally 5th Edition. (Actually, I guess it's really like 9th or 10th Edition, if you count the original boxed set and the "basic" line and 3.5 and Essentials and...) And almost immediately, I started getting emails asking me whether I was going to switch the OOTS story to this new edition when it comes out. Just so I can get ahead of this thing and not be dodging this question for a year and a half like I did when 4th Edition was announced: No, I won't.

The reason I can say that with confidence is that my decision has nothing to do with the content of that still-unwritten ruleset. Everything I said about my decision (http://www.giantitp.com/index4.html#v99jlZZ8IxKfDCwHZwU) not to make a wholesale switch to 4th Edition still stands: It would be an enormous amount of exposition for very little benefit, and it would likely change some of the characters in ways that would be difficult to reconcile with the story I've been planning. Further, this story is now three and a half years closer to its conclusion than it was when 4E was released, and it will be yet another year and a half before these new rules are widely available. The halfway point of OOTS is in the rearview mirror, and at a certain point, it just becomes an issue of not changing horses midstream (or at the very least, dancing with who brought you).

Plus I barely even reference the 3.5 rules anymore, using them just to determine what sort of spells or class abilities a character might have and then ignoring them the rest of the time. I'm certainly not looking to drive this narrative backwards to a point where I'm more chained to a ruleset over which I have no control. No, as an author, I'm more interested in deciding what happens in my world than I am in ceding that power to others.

Of course, the issue of whether or not I use any new rules in the comic is wholly separate from the issue of whether or not I use any new rules at the gaming table. If anything, I am encouraged by a lot of the language in the press release. Trying to bring gamers together again after the divisions of the last few years is a worthy goal, one I hope they can accomplish (but is fraught with certain pitfalls (https://xkcd.com/927/)). Listening to their fans is probably a good start, though if I've learned anything here on my site, it's that there are always fans who have diametrically opposed views from each other. Their best bet would be to forge some sort of consensus on what all D&D must be, and then build a simple well-designed game that allows that core experience but can then be seasoned to taste by each gaming group. What they shouldn't do is attempt to craft One Game to Rule Them All in the hopes of co-opting/exterminating all previous editions. Because if you make that game, and the fans throw it in the volcano anyway, where do you go next?



Considering that the entire story began with the characters being updated to 3.5E. :smallyuk:Interestingly enough....



OK, a lot of folks are asking about regrets and do-overs and what I would change, so I'm going to basically answer this all at once.

Generally speaking, I do not spend a lot of time stressing out about my past work. It is what it is, and I prefer to spend my time moving forward. As a result, I don't devote a lot of mental energy to thinking about what I don't like in the existing strips. To be totally honest, I don't spend a lot of time thinking about the existing strips at all. Once they're done, they're done. I get one more chance to consider them when I compile the book, since I can tweak a scene by adding new material, but once that happens I barely ever think about them as individual strips ever again. I think in terms of plot points and character arcs. I'll go reference a point of continuity when I need it, but I don't really reread my old stuff in bulk. If I did, I would probably be plagued by a constant desire to revise—which is why I don't do it.

That said, I have four basic regrets:

1.) That cold open with an in media res joke about D&D 3.5. Ugh. Hate it. Fixed it in the book.

2.) The overly crappy art style at the start of the comic (as previously addressed on this thread). Have made many upgrades since then.

3.) Unintentional sexism and/or insensitivity to gender issues. Doing my best to fix it going forward.

4.) Representation issues. Doing my best to fix it going forward.

That's it. I'm not going to go back and analyze one joke or plot point that didn't work as well as I would have liked it to. Those happen. There's always something to learn from them. The things that bother me are the things that could substantially damage how people engage with my work as a whole, such as the people who think I'm the guy who can't draw at all or the people who think I'm a closet misogynist. Those are the things that get under my skin, because I know I can do better than that. (Bold emphasis mine)

[Schroeswald]

Just realized this strip is the 25th one posted since I started (and finished) reading OOTS for the first time, so it’s nice to find that it’s a really amazing one with one of my favorite characters.

[Peelee]

you don't seem the type to get in trouble with the mods O_o

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: I recommend switching to a new topic of discussion.

[Rollin]

Minrah and Belkar are adorable, bonding over short jokes like that. She also seems to be following Durkon's tactic of "super-ultimating" character growth for Belkar, and he's responding! Woot!
I like the expression "super-ultimating", and I'm trying to figure out which of several ideas it represents. Is Minrah (and has Durkon been) modeling character growth for Belkar? Unlocking it for him? Accelerating it? Glorifying it? Or something else that I've missed?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

This is definitely my favorite strip with Minrah in it so far. I think as a character this distills a lot of her essence and I’d love to see more of it. Also, glad to see more introspective Belkar.

And the jokes in this strip killed me, especially the last panel.

[KorvinStarmast]

new topic of discussion. Sorry, I was so happy to see the Lupine one back that I got us off topic. I'll spend a two minute minor in the penalty box.

Now, about the strip- How 'bout that Minrah? Ain't she a great Cleric?

Let's look at her Pastoral Counselling skills: she must have many ranks!
She's getting through to Belkar. She takes someone with a negative attitude and begins to turn him around.

Go Clerics!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I like the expression "super-ultimating", and I'm trying to figure out which of several ideas it represents.

Probably this one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1151.html).

Grey Wolf

[PracticalM]

In the realm of life advice from fictional characters, Minrah's advice goes well with Miles Vorkosigan's
"You are what you do. Choose again, and change."

[King of Nowhere]

minrah is trying too hard there. i respect her life choices, but she comes across as one of those forcefully cheerful people who end up annoying everyone.

Also, there are a lot of problems with her speech. I won't comment on them, because they have too many real life implications for this forum, but I'll just point out the glaring inconsistency
Panel 9: "screw the haters!"
Panel 6: "don't say that! that's loser talk!"
so, it's all right for her to police someone else's attitude because it's not positive enough. Accepting one's limitations is not allowed. Seems judgmental and, basically, a hater.

Now, of course we're talking of belkar, so of course he should not be accepted as he is - if he ever went to trial for all his crimes, it would take a full hearing just to list them all. but minrah does not know that :smallbiggrin:

[gatemansgc]

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: I recommend switching to a new topic of discussion.

oof my first time being redtexted.

of course, getting redtexted means always listen to the redtext no matter what.

[Frozenstep]

Everyone you meet only knows the new version of you...

Kinda like Minrah only knowing the order that didn't accidentally ready attack themselves or forget Durkon while he was knocked out in a dungeon or talk obsessively about magical superiority. Hm, wonder what the reaction would be if she learned some of the more interesting tidbits.

"You made a deal with 3 fiends?"

[ReyMonoArdilla]

"Roy needed to go to college to figure out what to do with a sword" may be my new favourite joke.

[Verappo]

I love how Minrah's words are given immediate recognition since, for Belkar, she's exactly the kind of new friend who doesn't know the type he was before they met.

It's kind of sad that this may be the last time he gets to experience that.

[Fyraltari]

"Roy needed to go to college to figure out what to do with a sword" may be my new favourite joke.

To be honest swordfighting is pretty complex.

[Hurkyl]

New pet theory: the twist on the prophecy is that Belkar Bitterleaf will draw his last breath, because he becomes a completely new person!

But now that I've had that thought... the twist could also be giving me that hope just so that it hurts all that more when Belkar dies....

Darn you Giant!

[Truffles]

I think i found a spelling error in the last panel with minrah it's=it'd

[Rollin]

Probably this one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1151.html).
Thanks. Glorifying, then.

By which I don't intend a correction of "super-ultimating," which is nicely expressive.

[Schroeswald]

New pet theory: the twist on the prophecy is that Belkar Bitterleaf will draw his last breath, because he becomes a completely new person!

But now that I've had that thought... the twist could also be giving me that hope just so that it hurts all that more when Belkar dies....

Darn you Giant!

This is of course a theory no one has ever held before, I have never argued against this ever (and I am feeling too lazy to do it again, calling Peelee if he feels like it).

[Phhase]

New pet theory: the twist on the prophecy is that Belkar Bitterleaf will draw his last breath, because he becomes a completely new person!


Honestly? It still surprising to me that people give SO MUCH credence to the idea that the Oracle's prophecy will just straight up be Belkar dying, no loopholes, no cowpoop. Every other prophecy he's given has been twisty. I don't see why this one should be any different. I wouldn't be surprised to know that Belkar's death in Girard's illusion satisfied the prophecy. Or that he becomes an undead. Or that he gets Reincarnated. Or that he changes his name. Or that he draws a picture he titles "His Last Breath Ever, Before The End Of The Year."

Of course, the Giant may have confirmed that the prophecy has not yet been fulfilled, or that it will be a straight interpretation, and I am just crazy.

For a straight interpretation, I think it is most likely that Belkar will be annihilated by the Snarl in a heroic sacrifice to save the world, in a mirror of Kraagor's sacrifice. It's got symmetry, it's very redeeming, and is very awesome sounding.


This is of course a theory no one has ever held before, I have never argued against this ever (and I am feeling too lazy to do it again, calling Peelee if he feels like it).

Please note the above (MY above, not yours) was written without the knowledge that there was any significant argument between straight/twisted prophecy interpretation. :smalleek:

[The MunchKING]

To be honest swordfighting is pretty complex.

and he also learned a lot of other stuff like AoO and Bullrushes. And the tactical advantages of surprise (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0855.html).

[Fyraltari]

New pet theory: the twist on the prophecy is that Belkar Bitterleaf will draw his last breath, because he becomes a completely new person!

But now that I've had that thought... the twist could also be giving me that hope just so that it hurts all that more when Belkar dies....

Darn you Giant!
Seriously, again? Why would "new Belkar" not eat anymore cake? And why would the Oracle find that satisfying?

Honestly? It still surprising to me that people give SO MUCH credence to the idea that the Oracle's prophecy will just straight up be Belkar dying, no loopholes, no cowpoop. Every other prophecy he's given has been twisty. I don't see why this one should be any different. I wouldn't be surprised to know that Belkar's death in Girard's illusion satisfied the prophecy. Or that he becomes an undead. Or that he gets Reincarnated. Or that he changes his name. Or that he draws a picture he titles "His Last Breath Ever, Before The End Of The Year."
No, the Oracle's prophecy have never rested on twisting words, they've been vague or unhelpful at times but always straightforward and often useful.
Xykon's name really is Xykon. He was in his throne room. His was in the general area the Oracle (eventually) told Roy. Haley got her speech back when she stopped questionning something going her way. Belkar killed the Oracle. Durkon came back home after dying. Xykon attacked Girard's Gate before Kraagor's. V did gain supreme arcane power by saying four words to the right people for terrible reasons. V was where the Oracle told the ABD.

Also none of your guesses expalins how he wouldn't be long for this world.

[magwaaf]

oh good someone to tell belkar "{scrubbed} WHAT EVERYONE THINKS YOU BE YOU!" this is going to be awesome!

any idea on minrah's level or does she just just have 1 cleric level and a few fighter levels?

[Schroeswald]

https://i.stack.imgur.com/5O6gx.png Minrah Elle Shaleshoe
Lawful good (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1148.html), Dwarf female, Fighter 5+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1180.html) / Cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1099.html) 5+ (cast Searing Light in TD, after Raise Dead).
Str 15-19 (prerequisite for Knockdown, and can fail to pierce a vampire spawn's DR (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1102.html)).
Con ~12 (racial).
Int 13+ (required for Combat Expertise).
Wis 16+ (based on spells per day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1123.html)).
Cha 6+ (can return as a ghost (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1148.html)).
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Knockdown (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1167.html), Power Attack (to get through vampire DR after having all buffs dispelled), Improved Unarmed Strike.
Skills: Knowledge: Planes 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1138.html), Knowledge: Religion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1148.html), Spellcraft (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1109.html).
Abilities: Dwarf racial abilities.
Items: Holy symbol, non-silvered warhammer (based on vampire spawn DR), armor, helmet (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1109.html).

This is what we have on her, I don't entirely agree with how many fighter levels she has, but she has at least one and 5 is almost certainly her cleric level.

[The MunchKING]

oh good someone to tell belkar "{scrub the post, scrub the quote} WHAT EVERYONE THINKS YOU BE YOU!" this is going to be awesome!

any idea on minrah's level or does she just just have 1 cleric level and a few fighter levels?

Cure Serious (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1123.html) is a 3rd level Cleric spell, IIRC. So that would mean at least 5 levels of Cleric.

[skim172]

Seriously, again? Why would "new Belkar" not eat anymore cake? And why would the Oracle find that satisfying?


That's easily explainable - due to a combination of their small size, voracious appetites, and rapid metabolism, halflings are prone to developing rapid-onset diabetes. Like, extremely rapid-onset. As in Belkar will be walking along, feeling fine, and then suddenly, he'll hiccup violently and his pancreas will come shooting out of his mouth. Then it's no more cakes for that halfling - it's keto diet-only from there.

Which is good for his redemption, because the pancreas is where evil is stored in a halfling's body.



The Oracle is satisfied because he invested his life savings in Eli Bilby and Frodo Frordisk, the two biggest halfling-insulin manufacturers in the world.

[Peelee]

This is of course a theory no one has ever held before, I have never argued against this ever (and I am feeling too lazy to do it again, calling Peelee if he feels like it).

I was sentenced to life in prison, but then I changed my name so they had to let me go.

[Jasdoif]

That's easily explainable - due to a combination of their small size, voracious appetites, and rapid metabolism, halflings are prone to developing rapid-onset diabetes. Like, extremely rapid-onset. As in Belkar will be walking along, feeling fine, and then suddenly, he'll hiccup violently and his pancreas will come shooting out of his mouth. Then it's no more cakes for that halfling - it's keto diet-only from there.

Which is good for his redemption, because the pancreas is where evil is stored in a halfling's body.And then it transitions to "redemption equals death", due to ketoacidosis.

[AstralFire]

I never thought I'd see the day when I thought a strip focused on Belkar was *cute*.

I will actually miss him when he's dead, huh.

Minrah's advice is easier said than done but that doesn't mean it's not good advice. Been reorienting my brain to think more like that for the past few years. It's been good for me.

[Coventry]

Its a short joke. Possibly also a reference to certain notorious female comic characters breaking the fourth wall to direct the reader to look them in the eye instead of at their cleavage. But definitely a short joke.

There is another short joke hidden in here. From Minrah's perspective, she may not appreciate the normal view she is getting.

(My dad was in a wheelchair, several times I heard him lament having to look at people's rear ends while waiting in the cashier's line.)

"Perspective" pun most definitely intended.

[gerryq]

To be honest, I looked down on Minrah just to check if she was in fact female...

As in RL, it's not always about lust.

[Swiftbow]

Well, I hadn't thought of shipping Belkar and Minrah. But I am now!

[Canisius]

Nice little bit of philosophy there, Giant. When people first meet you, they don't know who you used to be. That was awesome.

I'm team "Belkar Will not Die Because of a Loophole in the Prophecy", but if he does, you've given him a nice redemption arc.

God, I love this comic.

[Drake Halfmoon]

Just wondering if Durkon's profile is going to be updated. I've only recently noticed that all the main characters now have cool posters, identifying their skill or personality. Roy cleaving through zombies with his sword, Haley leaping through traps, Elan scaring away Harpies, Vaarsuvius studying a monster trapped in a Forecage, Belkar stabbing a monster from the inside, and even Minrah blinding some ghouls. All except for Durkon.

Just curious about what kind of image he might get.

[Elanasaurus]

Just wondering if Durkon's profile is going to be updated. I've only recently noticed that all the main characters now have cool posters, identifying their skill or personality. Roy cleaving through zombies with his sword, Haley leaping through traps, Elan scaring away Harpies, Vaarsuvius studying a monster trapped in a Forecage, Belkar stabbing a monster from the inside, and even Minrah blinding some ghouls. All except for Durkon.

Just curious about what kind of image he might get. Their wiki profile pictures come from the 2019 calendar, AFAIK. The pictures are very cool and I almost wish that I used calendars.

[Peelee]

Just wondering if Durkon's profile is going to be updated. I've only recently noticed that all the main characters now have cool posters, identifying their skill or personality. Roy cleaving through zombies with his sword, Haley leaping through traps, Elan scaring away Harpies, Vaarsuvius studying a monster trapped in a Forecage, Belkar stabbing a monster from the inside, and even Minrah blinding some ghouls. All except for Durkon.

Just curious about what kind of image he might get.

Had to dig a little to figure out what you're talking about. I assume it's the Oots wiki? If so, that can be edited by anyone and is not, to the best of my knowledge, worked on by any of the forum staff.

ETA:
Their wiki profile pictures come from the 2019 calendar, AFAIK. The pictures are very cool and I almost wish that I used calendars.
I don't use calendars. Still get the digital versions for the art, because the pictures are indeed very cool!:smallwink:

[Anansiil]

Being different is really the best advice one can receive. Just do it, but better :)
She is already pulling her weight!

[The_Weirdo]

Wow. A Lawful character being awesome about change, Who would have thought? :)

[CriticalFailure]

I wonder how all the members of the Order's experiences with changing and stuff will help or not if/when they get to trying to dialogue with Redcloak.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Ok, this was easily one of my favorite comics in the past few hundred. Just everything about it, and how funny it was while also being a great message and insightful.
Would love if the whole "not listening to people" who say you can't be something turns into Belkar cheating death and ruining the prophecy somehow. While she didn't specifically go into "screw destiny!" type material, it was...basically adjacent to that.

Also...

"I don't think Roy really knows what to do with me yet."
:belkar: "Yeah, but Roy needed to go to college to figure out what to do with a sword."

Has got to be one of my favorite burns of the entire OotS! :smallbiggrin:

[Andric]

miss read nevermind

[woweedd]

A. Minrah, you have chosen the right career path. That was some DURKON level psychological counseling.
B. I never thought the day would come i'd describe Belkar as "cute". There's a first time for everything, I guess.
C. Short people problems.

[Hemoparty]

I really was not expecting a wholesome Belkar and Minrah scene, ever. Funny how little it took to almost completely turn my opinion of the halfling around...

[Seward]

The implications of this sentence blew my mind. She must think they are good at planning. She must think they know what they are doing!:smalleek:


There is a scene in the Dresden Files where the protagonist realizes the Council is treating him as a major physical threat even though each member is individually more powerful than him. Then he thinks about all the things they've seen him do (eg, ride a zombie T-Rex to take down the apprentices of a necromancer so badass it took two world wars to deeat him...and that was early in his career), not knowing the context, the allies, the close calls, the sheer luck involved.

To Minrah, even after the briefing from Elan the OOTS is a powerful high level party who has faced foes of a lethality she can only imagine in her nightmares and has had only a couple deaths in that run, while leaving most of their antagonists dead or in disarray (Linear Guild, Greysky Thieves Guild + leaders and Crystal, Tarquin and most lately Hel's Vampire priests). Xykon is another matter but Roy has in fact beaten him once, the second encounter involved getting ambushed while fighting an army twice the sie of their allies, the third they'd already beaten Xykon to the objective and were deep in battle with both the Linear Guild and Tarquin, so yeah, they were lucky they got a mulligan there.

What they're trying to do is hard, but would seem possible. Back when I played Living Greyhawk sometimes a lower level person would find themselves at a high level table. I've been both that high level party trying to work out a way to make that Minra-type character contribute and that lowbie trying to find something useful to do while watching the party mage do something he called a "whisper chipper" (imagine time stop, prismatic wall and the rest of the time stop used to conjure stuff to move enemies through the wall - earth elementals, bigby's hands, TK etc).

No matter what kind of screwups the party might see themselves as, they earned those levels the hard way and have a reservoir of competence and power that will be impressive to lower level characters - and it's kind of nice to have a Minrah in the story to remind the audience how badass a 15th level D&D party is in comparison to just about anything except, unfortunately, an epic level lich and an epic or near-epic cleric.

[danielxcutter]

There is a scene in the Dresden Files where the protagonist realizes the Council is treating him as a major physical threat even though each member is individually more powerful than him. Then he thinks about all the things they've seen him do (eg, ride a zombie T-Rex to take down the apprentices of a necromancer so badass it took two world wars to deeat him...and that was early in his career), not knowing the context, the allies, the close calls, the sheer luck involved.

To Minrah, even after the briefing from Elan the OOTS is a powerful high level party who has faced foes of a lethality she can only imagine in her nightmares and has had only a couple deaths in that run, while leaving most of their antagonists dead or in disarray (Linear Guild, Greysky Thieves Guild + leaders and Crystal, Tarquin and most lately Hel's Vampire priests). Xykon is another matter but Roy has in fact beaten him once, the second encounter involved getting ambushed while fighting an army twice the sie of their allies, the third they'd already beaten Xykon to the objective and were deep in battle with both the Linear Guild and Tarquin, so yeah, they were lucky they got a mulligan there.

What they're trying to do is hard, but would seem possible. Back when I played Living Greyhawk sometimes a lower level person would find themselves at a high level table. I've been both that high level party trying to work out a way to make that Minra-type character contribute and that lowbie trying to find something useful to do while watching the party mage do something he called a "whisper chipper" (imagine time stop, prismatic wall and the rest of the time stop used to conjure stuff to move enemies through the wall - earth elementals, bigby's hands, TK etc).

No matter what kind of screwups the party might see themselves as, they earned those levels the hard way and have a reservoir of competence and power that will be impressive to lower level characters - and it's kind of nice to have a Minrah in the story to remind the audience how badass a 15th level D&D party is in comparison to just about anything except, unfortunately, an epic level lich and an epic or near-epic cleric.

To be honest, Minrah having some spellcasting honestly helps a lot. Underpowered martials boil down to "pack mule" and "flanking bonus".

[Lkctgo]

I didn't know Minrah took a level in Rogue, seeing as how she's helping Belkar sneak into neutral.

[StarStorm]

This has to be one of the most straight up uplifting comics I've ever read. Damn.

Minrah's showing what that Wis and Good.

[Particle_Man]

This is making me want to play a warlock/enlightened spirit who joins a party after becoming the latter. So the character was evil, became lawful good, and the party know the character only as that (unless they find out about the dark past . . .).

[Shoelessgdowar]

As someone who transitioned last year, this one really spoke to me. :)
So... were you a dog? Or have you become a dog and just haven't updated your screen name?

And halfway through I realized my joke could be taken as euphemisms for an actual transition... Please, just treat it as the joke... unless you want to share, which, by all means do (as long as mods do not see it as rule breaking political talk, no need to get strikes).


Seriously, again? Why would "new Belkar" not eat anymore cake? And why would the Oracle find that satisfying?

No, the Oracle's prophecy have never rested on twisting words, they've been vague or unhelpful at times but always straightforward and often useful.
Xykon's name really is Xykon. He was in his throne room. His was in the general area the Oracle (eventually) told Roy. Haley got her speech back when she stopped questionning something going her way. Belkar killed the Oracle. Durkon came back home after dying. Xykon attacked Girard's Gate before Kraagor's. V did gain supreme arcane power by saying four words to the right people for terrible reasons. V was where the Oracle told the ABD.

Also none of your guesses expalins how he wouldn't be long for this world.

1) The Oracle said Birthday cake, not cake in general. Which a) means Belkar will have to have said Birthday Cake before the prophecy can be considered and b) it could have to do with the birthday cake, (see: McArthur Park Lyrics) and could be some really exceptional cake that should be savored.

2) EVERY Prophecy the Oracle has made has been has been twisted, skewed, interpretation based, or as only true as Obi-Wan said "from a certain point of view", meaning he never does straightforward, ever.

3) "Not Long for this World" is a meta joke. They are sticks, two dimensional, the are measured in length, ergo not long for this world is a height insult. He is calling Belkar short, which is extra insulting due to the Oracle being the same size category.

4) The Oracle is always wrong, unless he is seeing the present. Despite people's attempts to twist facts to support his prophecies, he has been inaccurate or totally wrong every time.

[diplomancer]

Ok, this was easily one of my favorite comics in the past few hundred. Just everything about it, and how funny it was while also being a great message and insightful.
Would love if the whole "not listening to people" who say you can't be something turns into Belkar cheating death and ruining the prophecy somehow. While she didn't specifically go into "screw destiny!" type material, it was...basically adjacent to that.

Also...

"I don't think Roy really knows what to do with me yet."
:belkar: "Yeah, but Roy needed to go to college to figure out what to do with a sword."

Has got to be one of my favorite burns of the entire OotS! :smallbiggrin:

The best thing about this burn is Belkar's face, though. He is not just roasting Roy, he is also reassuring Minrah. Talk about character progress.

[Feruk]

1) The Oracle said Birthday cake, not cake in general. Which a) means Belkar will have to have said Birthday Cake before the prophecy can be considered and b) it could have to do with the birthday cake, (see: McArthur Park Lyrics) and could be some really exceptional cake that should be savored.

2) EVERY Prophecy the Oracle has made has been has been twisted, skewed, interpretation based, or as only true as Obi-Wan said "from a certain point of view", meaning he never does straightforward, ever.

3) "Not Long for this World" is a meta joke. They are sticks, two dimensional, the are measured in length, ergo not long for this world is a height insult. He is calling Belkar short, which is extra insulting due to the Oracle being the same size category.

4) The Oracle is always wrong, unless he is seeing the present. Despite people's attempts to twist facts to support his prophecies, he has been inaccurate or totally wrong every time.

I'm curious, how was Xykon close to Kraagor's gate before Girard's? How does 'trapped in my own head after death but before resurrection' not count as posthumous? Neither of those were the present, and, given that the scribblers knew rift locations, Kraagor's ain't sleight of handed down south...

[Fyraltari]

I'm curious, how was Xykon close to Girard's gate before Kraagor's? How does 'trapped in my own head after death but before resurrection' not count as posthumous? Neither of those were the present, and, given that the scribblers knew rift locations, Kraagor's ain't sleight of handed down south...

Xykon’s teleported literal meters away from Girard’s pyramid, so yes he got close to Girard’s Gate before Kraagor’s I really don’t see how you can contest that.

Durkon died before coming home and did not come home alive. That his soul was denied its proper afterlife does not detract from that.

[Feruk]

Xykon’s teleported literal meters away from Girard’s pyramid, so yes he got close to Girard’s Gate before Kraagor’s I really don’t see how you can contest that.

Durkon died before coming home and did not come home alive. That his soul was denied its proper afterlife does not detract from that.

Heh, messed up the order of gates - meant to ask how he was at Kraagor's before Girard's. Just can't see how that one was supposedly a wrong prediction, and, honestly, any basis of the others being wrong are basically things like parsing V as four words, not three, when there was q nontrivial pause, word of giant, and the like. I'm in total agreement with you on these :-)

[Shoelessgdowar]

I'm curious, how was Xykon close to Girard's gate before Kraagor's? How does 'trapped in my own head after death but before resurrection' not count as posthumous? Neither of those were the present, and, given that the scribblers knew rift locations, Kraagor's ain't sleight of handed down south...


Xykon’s teleported literal meters away from Girard’s pyramid, so yes he got close to Girard’s Gate before Kraagor’s I really don’t see how you can contest that.

Durkon died before coming home and did not come home alive. That his soul was denied its proper afterlife does not detract from that.

Your question is invalid, and like the Oracle should have done, I ignore it and give the proper response, The answer is "Neither, Xykon was with 1000 feet of Soon's gate". To be accurate, he has to be accurate, not half-accurate.

Durkon was not buried, Posthumously is not Post-Mortem, it is after you are Dead AND Buried. Durkon returned prehumously, and unmortem.

In addition, if the Oracle was accurate, either the answer to Belkar should have been "No!", "No, despite all your efforts, you will fail to actually cause any of those deaths, though convoluted arguments could be made to stretch events so you can pretend to take the most infinitesimal amount of minor credit", otherwise there was no point for the Oracle to make excuses when Haley and Belkar returned, because those excuses to avoid his death would not have mattered.

The Oracle's attempt to avoid dying shows he knows his prophecies are bunk. Also, he was wrong when he predicted Ghost Roy would forget. He alleged the Memory charm is so no one gets freebies, but the truth is so no one remembers his numerous off-handed comments that aren't as easily able to be spun to be 'true'.

The Oracle is great at scrying, but lousy at actual prophecy.


Heh, messed up the order of gates - meant to ask how he was at Kraagor's before Girard's. Just can't see how that one was supposedly a wrong prediction, and, honestly, any basis of the others being wrong are basically things like parsing V as four words, not three, when there was q nontrivial pause, word of giant, and the like. I'm in total agreement with you on these :-)

The Oracle's Prophecy for V has multiple faults:

Four Words- Stuttering is a single word. Even if not stuttering, the phrase "I must succeed" was the phrase, the previous I was not needed.

Said to the Right Person- The Trio are not people, not right, and not singular. If we presume it is V, then the statement was literally made to nobody, which is literally the absence of a person.

At the right time- When you are rest deprived and under stress is never the right time to make big decisions.

For All the Wrong Reasons- Saving hir family, saving the world are both not wrong reasons, but were reasons V said it. Assisting Xykon, Slaughtering all the survivors of the Azure Guard are both wrong reasons that V didn't want to do. So the reasons were neither all wrong nor all the wrong reasons.

[factotum]

{scrubbed,} The prophecy says his favourite character is going to die, ergo, the prophecy is wrong, and every other prophecy must be wrong as well.

[Schroeswald]

Your question is invalid, and like the Oracle should have done, I ignore it and give the proper response, The answer is "Neither, Xykon was with 1000 feet of Soon's gate". To be accurate, he has to be accurate, not half-accurate.
But he couldn’t answer that! Roy specifically made it so that Soon’s Gate couldn’t be an answer to that! That was the whole point, you would be incorrectly answering the question “ There are two magical gates that Xykon might try to control next: Girard's Gate, on the western continent, or Kraagor's Gate, near the northern polar cap. If the lich sorcerer commonly referred to as "Xykon" will ever be, at some future point in time, within a 1000-foot radius of one of these two magical gates, of which of those locations will he be within said radius first, chronologically?”, because Soon’s Gate is just not a possible answer to it, the two options are Girard’s and Kraagor’s.


Durkon was not buried, Posthumously is not Post-Mortem, it is after you are Dead AND Buried. Durkon returned prehumously, and unmortem.
No, it doesn’t. It means “arising, occurring, or continuing after one's death (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/posthumous)“, so he returned to dwarven lands after his death.


In addition, if the Oracle was accurate, either the answer to Belkar should have been "No!", "No, despite all your efforts, you will fail to actually cause any of those deaths, though convoluted arguments could be made to stretch events so you can pretend to take the most infinitesimal amount of minor credit", otherwise there was no point for the Oracle to make excuses when Haley and Belkar returned, because those excuses to avoid his death would not have mattered.
He tried to avoid his death, but he knew he was gonna die, and thus the correct answer to “Do I get to cause the death of any of the following: Miko, Miko's stupid horse, Roy, Vaarsuvius, or you?” is Yes.


The Oracle's attempt to avoid dying shows he knows his prophecies are bunk. Also, he was wrong when he predicted Ghost Roy would forget. He alleged the Memory charm is so no one gets freebies, but the truth is so no one remembers his numerous off-handed comments that aren't as easily able to be spun to be 'true'.

The Oracle is great at scrying, but lousy at actual prophecy.
He still knew he was going to die though! And his off the cuff comments have been true, Roy and Elan were up for a pair of family ruinions, he just didn’t bother to look into the future to check if Roy wouldn’t remember everything.

Oh wait, you edited your post to include V’s prophecy, I’m not responding to that except to say, that’s not what right meant!

And factotum, you’re right, I already wrote all this by the time I saw your post so I’m still posting it, but I’m not debating whether every single prophecy is wrong, not again.

[Feruk]

Your question is invalid, and like the Oracle should have done, I ignore it and give the proper response, The answer is "Neither, Xykon was with 1000 feet of Soon's gate". To be accurate, he has to be accurate, not half-accurate.

Durkon was not buried, Posthumously is not Post-Mortem, it is after you are Dead AND Buried. Durkon returned prehumously, and unmortem.

In addition, if the Oracle was accurate, either the answer to Belkar should have been "No!", "No, despite all your efforts, you will fail to actually cause any of those deaths, though convoluted arguments could be made to stretch events so you can pretend to take the most infinitesimal amount of minor credit", otherwise there was no point for the Oracle to make excuses when Haley and Belkar returned, because those excuses to avoid his death would not have mattered.

The Oracle's attempt to avoid dying shows he knows his prophecies are bunk. Also, he was wrong when he predicted Ghost Roy would forget. He alleged the Memory charm is so no one gets freebies, but the truth is so no one remembers his numerous off-handed comments that aren't as easily able to be spun to be 'true'.

The Oracle is great at scrying, but lousy at actual prophecy.



The Oracle's Prophecy for V has multiple faults:

Four Words- Stuttering is a single word. Even if not stuttering, the phrase "I must succeed" was the phrase, the previous I was not needed.

Said to the Right Person- The Trio are not people, not right, and not singular. If we presume it is V, then the statement was literally made to nobody, which is literally the absence of a person.

At the right time- When you are rest deprived and under stress is never the right time to make big decisions.

For All the Wrong Reasons- Saving hir family, saving the world are both not wrong reasons, but were reasons V said it. Assisting Xykon, Slaughtering all the survivors of the Azure Guard are both wrong reasons that V didn't want to do. So the reasons were neither all wrong nor all the wrong reasons.

I'm curious, where do you get your definition of the word posthumous from? Every definition I can find is just after death; whilst the linguistic root is after ground (I think? May be related to being after the father's death), words change meanings, particularly when changing languages, and the commonly used one is after death. It's not like we're actually speaking latin; even if after ground was a valid reading of the phrase, it doesn't stop that 'after death' is a valid meaning. Not incorrect. Also, weaselly, if we're talking linguistic root of after ground, then surely being underground in the pyramid - or even the dungeon of Dorukan - counts.

Also, when the question asked is literally: "If the lich sorcerer commonly referred to as "Xykon" will ever be, at some future point in time, within a 1000-foot radius of one of these two magical gates, of which of those locations will he be within said radius first, chronologically?", after determining that the two gates are Girard's and Kraagor's, saying Girard's is right. The usage of 'may try to control next' was only in reference to identifying the gates, not the query itself, and thus does not invalidate the query - not that it would, as it's a 'may try to', not a 'will try to control either of these next'. 'He may try to control X or Y next, which will he next be within 1000 feet of' is valid even if there's target Z that he'll go for first.

On V, I can see that it can be viewed your way, so I'm not going to argue that when others have done it and failed to convince you.

[Roderick_BR]

I feel she'll fit right in with the party.

M: "Shield of Faith"
B: "Will it work?"
M: "The name is just for marketing purposes"

M: "Punch them in the face, no wait, that's an overreaction"

B: "Preach it, sister"
M "I already am, I'm a cleric!"

She needs to be careful to be too friendly with Belkar tough... you guys remember all Vaarsuvius's work to stay at his bad side, right?
Altough since Belkar got his cat he may have developed an "appreciation" level for his mood.

[hroþila]

Durkon was not buried, Posthumously is not Post-Mortem, it is after you are Dead AND Buried. Durkon returned prehumously, and unmortem.
As Feruk noted, this is not how semantics works. But even then, posthumously is not actually derived from Latin humus - it is a superlative of posterus (cf. posterity) and has nothing to do with burial. The <h> is due to folk etymology.

[Fyraltari]

{scrub the post, scrub the quote}

I should have payed attention to the username, I didn't realize who I was replying to.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I don't use calendars. Still get the digital versions for the art, because the pictures are indeed very cool!:smallwink:

I also don’t use the calendar, but I still buy it and hang it up cause it’s just that awesome.


I’m always grateful for strips with Belkar in them because they mean I never need to ever reread the parts with the Oracle in them since we cover them so meticulously here. :smallamused:

[happycrow]

That definitely speaks to me. I've been trying to go through some changes lately and it's really reassuring to know that after these changes are done, anyone else I know from this point on will only know the new me unless I show them the old me. Something I aspire to never do.

It's hard to be a new you.

The problem with change is that you can't change and stay the same. But the great part is that once you do, you don't want to.

[happycrow]

In the realm of life advice from fictional characters, Minrah's advice goes well with Miles Vorkosigan's
"You are what you do. Choose again, and change."

Also, the Masao.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

As Feruk noted, this is not how semantics works. But even then, posthumously is not actually derived from Latin humus - it is a superlative of posterus (cf. posterity) and has nothing to do with burial. The <h> is due to folk etymology.

Historically, it is the post-cognomen* a Roman child would get if he was born after the death of their father - the most famous case I can think of this would be the not-quite-Emperor Postumus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postumus), who ruled the "Gallic Empire" (i.e. Gaul, Britania and the Western Germanic provinces) for about a decade during the crisis of the third century.

It seems a logical step to go from "born after the death of X" to the more general meaning of "happened after the death of X". Burial was never a requirement for any of this.

I am also required to mention that, no, Julius Caesar was NOT postumus. His mom was alive during his lifetime and "Caesar", like most cognomens, was inherited - it might be one of his ancestors was born via cesarean section, but the famous Julius certainly was not. And yes, today women can survive a cesarean procedure, but that's only thanks to modern medicine, and in Roman times it was exclusively performed on dead women - the first live cesarean we know of was done in the 1500s, IIRC.

Grey Wolf

*I'm sure there is an actual name for the nicknames that got added after the cognomen, but I can't find what it is. I'm calling "post-cognomen" to all the names someone would add after their three basic names of prenomen, nomen and cognomen (aka Tria Nomina).

[Ganonphile]

Minrah's advice is great. It also has made me realize that should happen in more games... and that I've had some absolutely terrible GMs in the past. Ooof.

[fwiffo]

My favorite line of this one is "Usually, all you have to do around here to get into the top half of party effectiveness is not be an active obstacle to progress." I've been on teams like that.

Belkar gets the best lines.

[Peelee]

the most famous case I can think of this would be the not-quite-Emperor Postumus

Dangit, I should have made my mod name "The Not-Quite-Emperor."

[Keltest]

Dangit, I should have made my mod name "The Not-Quite-Emperor."

Isnt that what a Dragon is anyway? Like Darth Vader is the Dragon to the Emperor.

[KorvinStarmast]

(aka Tria Nomina). Sounds like a great PC name for a 5e bard (college of whispers) with the Charlatan background, but I am straying from the topic of arguing about Belkar's prophecy, so I'll step back.

[Fyraltari]

*I'm sure there is an actual name for the nicknames that got added after the cognomen, but I can't find what it is. I'm calling "post-cognomen" to all the names someone would add after their three basic names of prenomen, nomen and cognomen (aka Tria Nomina).

Apparently these would agnomen for the fourth one (personnal nickname likely to become the descendants cognomen) and supernomina beyond that.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Sounds like a great PC name for a 5e bard (college of whispers) with the Charlatan background, but I am straying from the topic of arguing about Belkar's prophecy, so I'll step back.

But... but... that's the whole point of my historical digressions: to get us away from a well-worn topic that is just going to get us into trouble.

Sure, talking about a guy best known because of some sweet Hercules commemorative coins he once had minted (or cool nicknames for bards) is not as interesting as OotS, but it is far less likely to get us carded as two entrenched ideas of how prophecies work clash.

Heck, at this point I'm kinda hoping we will start a pun cascade. And that's not something I would ever think of actually hoping for.

Grey "saying the quiet part out loud" Wolf

[hroþila]

If you ask me, "Because it might lead to a discussion about Roman naming conventions" is a fantastic answer to the question "Why engage this or that forumer?".

[Fyraltari]

If you ask me, "Because it might lead to a discussion about Roman naming conventions" is a fantastic answer to the question "Why engage this or that forumer?".

I think you might be biased, though.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I think you might be biased, though.

Aren't we all? If anything, I'm surprised hroþila (should I be capitalizing that, btw? I can never tell) is not pushing for more etymology talk (which I'd be completely down for), rather than being nice to me by suggesting my regurgitation of The History of Rome podcast content constitutes a fantastic topic of conversation (thanks for that, though, much appreciated).

Grey (parenthetical asides) Wolf

[Schroeswald]

Aren't we all? If anything, I'm surprised hroþila (should I be capitalizing that, btw? I can never tell) is not pushing for more etymology talk (which I'd be completely down for), rather than being nice to me by suggesting my regurgitation of The History of Rome podcast content constitutes a fantastic topic of conversation (thanks for that, though, much appreciated).

Grey Wolf

Talking about The History of Rome podcast is always fantastic, it's just we never manage to shove the topic off of Star Wars to do it (I mean, that's what happens when we are on a Star Wars forum, we always talk about Star Wars).

[Fyraltari]

Aren't we all?

Definitely.

If anything, I'm surprised hroþila is not pushing for more etymology talk (which I'd be completely down for), rather than being nice to me by suggesting my regurgitation of The History of Rome podcast content constitutes a fantastic topic of conversation (thanks for that, though, much appreciated).
hroþila is nice.

(should I be capitalizing that, btw? I can never tell)
Since he didn't capitalize it when he typed that username my guess is no.

Talking about The History of Rome podcast is always fantastic, it's just we never manage to shove the topic off of Star Wars to do it (I mean, that's what happens when we are on a Star Wars forum, we always talk about Star Wars).
Just question the parallels between the Prequels and the end of the Republic. That ought to do it.

I mean Yoda is one weird Mark Antony stand-in.

[pendell]

I have to say I found today's strip insightful. I can't imagine Minra as being anything but a cleric, because I never knew her as a town guard. No preconceptions.

Thought provoking. Thank you, Giant.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Since he didn't capitalize it when he typed that username my guess is no.
I've had enough cases on both sides ("enough" being defined here as >1) where either it was a typo they're stuck with because it's not important to go through the hassle of changing it or an actual choice, that I'd rather ask Justin Case.


Just question the parallels between the Prequels and the end of the Republic. That ought to do it.

Mike Duncan (of History of Rome podcast fame) once did a marvelous twitter thread where he rewrote the prequels into an extended parallel of the French Revolution that was a sight to behold.

Unfortunately, since Twitter is a blemish on humanity, I cannot for the life of me find it - only references to it with dead links.

Grey Wolf

[Fyraltari]

I've had enough cases on both sides ("enough" being defined here as >1) where either it was a typo they're stuck with because it's not important to go through the hassle of changing it or an actual choice, that I'd rather ask Justin Case.



Mike Duncan (of History of Rome podcast fame) once did a marvelous twitter thread where he rewrote the prequels into an extended parallel of the French Revolution that was a sight to behold.

Unfortunately, since Twitter is a blemish on humanity, I cannot for the life of me find it - only references to it with dead links.

Grey Wolf

That sounds incredible.

[Peelee]

hroþila (should I be capitalizing that, btw? I can never tell)

What, like "hroÞila"?:smalltongue:

[Schroeswald]

That sounds incredible.

Another incredible creation, albeit one that Mike can’t take credit for, is the Flight of Emperor Palpatine (https://www.revolutionspodcast.com/2014/11/the-flight-of-emperor-palpatine.html).

[mjasghar]

Just reading the patreon q and a
. Especially now; there are very, very few new characters slated to appear in this final book—even the ones that are appearing “on panel” for the first time have been referenced obliquely before.
Unless this was a misstep doesn’t that mean the voices that took o-chul and lien away have been mentioned previously?
Which suggests to me something from the Crayons strips

[mjasghar]

Beautiful comic, lovely description of change and new friends.

But I don't get Minrah's final sentence. Maybe a second-language thing, but I'd really appreciate it if someone could enlighten me. Why keep eyes down at eye level?

Also, shouldn't it be "It'd be nice..." rather than "It's be nice" - or is that intentional?

Minrah is used to just dwarves so they tend to be at the same eye level
With so many humans they are always looking down with their heads bent
There’s also a joke about how in the comic Belkar always has his head angled upwards- especially when talking to Roy who is the tallest

[Fyraltari]

Just reading the patreon q and a
. Especially now; there are very, very few new characters slated to appear in this final book—even the ones that are appearing “on panel” for the first time have been referenced obliquely before.
Unless this was a misstep doesn’t that mean the voices that took o-chul and lien away have been mentioned previously?
Which suggests to me something from the Crayons strips
Pretty sure that them attacking Lien and O-Chul and talking counts as appearing.

[Quizatzhaderac]

To be honest swordfighting is pretty complex.He also learned (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0136.html) how to use a Bohemian earspoon and the difference between a glaive-guisarme and a guisarme-glaive. Also, he knows how to herd goats, which I'm sure was foreshadowing of an important goat herding event.

[Peelee]

He also learned (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0136.html) how to use a Bohemian earspoon and the difference between a glaive-guisarme and a guisarme-glaive. Also, he knows how to herd goats, which I'm sure was foreshadowing of an important goat herding event.

A.) That's actually a really good point.
2.) Now I'm wishing I'd done the Backer's Choice on the kickstarter so I could have requested more goat herding.

[Rogar Demonblud]

If only he'd known about this group, he could've learned about herding cats.

[StreamOfTheSky]

The best thing about this burn is Belkar's face, though. He is not just roasting Roy, he is also reassuring Minrah. Talk about character progress.

True. If Belkar had just randomly told Roy that some day, in order to mock him, it wouldn't have been nearly as hilarious in that context.

[hroþila]

Aren't we all? If anything, I'm surprised hroþila (should I be capitalizing that, btw? I can never tell) is not pushing for more etymology talk (which I'd be completely down for), rather than being nice to me by suggesting my regurgitation of The History of Rome podcast content constitutes a fantastic topic of conversation (thanks for that, though, much appreciated).
Cheers. I'm not particularly concerned about the capitalization, either option is fine and I use both. Although the non-capitalized version does make it look like I'm presenting myself as a pretentious indie pop band with a stylized name, I suppose.
Obviously, the way forward would be to talk exclusively about the etymology of Latin words for different cultural, religious and political concepts from ancient Rome.


hroþila is nice.
:smallredface:

[Peelee]

Obviously, the way forward would be to talk exclusively about the etymology of Latin words for different cultural concepts from ancient Rome.
Hooray!

Obviously, the way forward would be to talk exclusively about the etymology of Latin words for different religious and political concepts from ancient Rome.
Boo!

[PontificatusRex]

Wow. A Lawful character being awesome about change, Who would have thought? :)

She seems pretty Chaotic Good to me. Why not? Thor is, in old rules versions anyway, and in his portrayal in the comic he seems far less concerned about rules and regulations than, say, Durkon. Like Malack said, deities and clerics don't have to have the same alignment...

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Cheers. I'm not particularly concerned about the capitalization, either option is fine and I use both. Although the non-capitalized version does make it look like I'm presenting myself as a pretentious indie pop band with a stylized name, I suppose.

My interest in capitalization stems primarily from ease of reading - it just makes it easier for me to scan a sentence that is properly capitalized as per English rules than when it is not. For such a small thing, it makes a surprising difference to my reading speed.


Obviously, the way forward would be to talk exclusively about the etymology of Latin words for different cultural, religious and political concepts from ancient Rome.

Err... cultural would be fine, but the other two... might not be the best subjects for this forum. Let's not.

ETA: Peelee, that's just cheating.

ETA the second:

She seems pretty Chaotic Good to me. Why not? Thor is, in old rules versions anyway, and in his portrayal in the comic he seems far less concerned about rules and regulations than, say, Durkon. Like Malack said, deities and clerics don't have to have the same alignment...

FWIW, Thor is quite clearly CG himself.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

She seems pretty Chaotic Good to me. Why not? Thor is, in old rules versions anyway, and in his portrayal in the comic he seems far less concerned about rules and regulations than, say, Durkon. Like Malack said, deities and clerics don't have to have the same alignment...

Dwarves do heavily skew Lawful in Stickworld, it seems, but that's not to say all are. If we play the odds, it's just safer to assume a dwarf is Lawful until there's reason to believe otherwise.

ETA:

ETA: Peelee, that's just cheating.

Grey Wolf
:smalltongue:

[PontificatusRex]

Dwarves do heavily skew Lawful in Stickworld, it seems, but that's not to say all are. If we play the odds, it's just safer to assume a dwarf is Lawful until there's reason to believe otherwise.

ETA:
:smalltongue:

Well, given that "Screw what other people think, I'm going to do what I want/think is right" is one of the foundational philosophies of being Chaotic, I think there is good evidence she is not in the majority.

[Emanick]

Another incredible creation, albeit one that Mike can’t take credit for, is the Flight of Emperor Palpatine (https://www.revolutionspodcast.com/2014/11/the-flight-of-emperor-palpatine.html).

This is hilarious.

While we're on the subject of the History of Rome podcast, I'd like to thank Grey Wolf for getting me interested in it. It has enormously enlivened my commutes. On my way to D&D the other day, I finally got to the episode where Caesar was assassinated and I was so engrossed in listening that I almost missed my exit. :smalltongue:


She seems pretty Chaotic Good to me. Why not? Thor is, in old rules versions anyway, and in his portrayal in the comic he seems far less concerned about rules and regulations than, say, Durkon. Like Malack said, deities and clerics don't have to have the same alignment...

I had her pegged as Neutral Good, personally. She has a mixture of mildly Lawful and mildly Chaotic traits.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

This is hilarious.

While we're on the subject of the History of Rome podcast, I'd like to thank Grey Wolf for getting me interested in it. It has enormously enlivened my commutes. On my way to D&D the other day, I finally got to the episode where Caesar was assassinated and I was so engrossed in listening that I almost missed my exit. :smalltongue:

You are most welcome. The more the merrier.

Grey Wolf

[bunsen_h]

As Feruk noted, this is not how semantics works. But even then, posthumously is not actually derived from Latin humus - it is a superlative of posterus (cf. posterity) and has nothing to do with burial. The <h> is due to folk etymology.

For most dwarves, "you will return home after you go into the ground" is kind of a given, assuming that they get to go home at all.

[Fyraltari]

You are most welcome. The more the merrier.

Grey Wolf

Which, fun fact, is exactly what Cassius told Brutus. And Cimber. And Trebonius...

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Which, fun fact, is exactly what Cassius told Brutus. And Cimber. And Trebonius...

Let me be perfectly clear that I will not condone a course of action that will lead us to war.
Thor, if only the film had been as good as the trailer
Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

Thor, if only the film had been as good as the trailer

Your comment made me rewatch the trailer, and while it starts off really strong, it kinda of loses itself in the middle and never really finds its footing by the end.

And yet your comment is still accurate.:smallcool:

[The_Weirdo]

Which, fun fact, is exactly what Cassius told Brutus. And Cimber. And Trebonius...

"Put that knife away or you'll end up hurting yourself." - Julius Caesar, in: La Zizanie. ;)

[Fyraltari]

Let me be perfectly clear that I will not condone a course of action that will lead us to war.
Thor, if only the film had been as good as the trailer
Grey Wolf

Are you saying that Carthago is NOT to be destroyed?!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Are you saying that Carthago is NOT to be destroyed?!

I could make a very good argument that it would've been better for Rome if it had not. Scipio, not Cato, knew better. In no small part because he was there.

On the other hand, I suspect Rome's fate had already been sealed at Trebia, Trasimene and Cannae.

Grey Wolf

[The_Weirdo]

Are you saying that Carthago is NOT to be destroyed?!

"Wh... What the... Delenda Carthago? But I was going to..." - Asterix's lawyer, Laurel Wreath. ;)

Sorry, had read one of the latest albums the day before yesterday. :smalltongue:

[Fyraltari]

"Put that knife away or you'll end up hurting yourself." - Julius Caesar, in: La Zizanie. ;)
Speaking of, how did they translate Brutus thought just after? Because if I remember correctly that’s an example of a purely French very odd grammar thingy.

[The MunchKING]

EDIT: Oh, every one's moved on from this. Whoops.



Y
The Oracle's Prophecy for V has multiple faults:

Four Words- Stuttering is a single word. Even if not stuttering, the phrase "I must succeed" was the phrase, the previous I was not needed.

It's not stuttering, it's reiteration. the ellipses is to show a pause in between the two Is.



Said to the Right Person- The Trio are not people, not right, and not singular. If we presume it is V, then the statement was literally made to nobody, which is literally the absence of a person.

V said it to herself to reassure herself of the righteousness of her cause in spite of the fiends' frankly silly alternate contingency plans.



At the right time- When you are rest deprived and under stress is never the right time to make big decisions.

It was the time she HAD to make the decision. So literally no other time would have done.

[The_Weirdo]

Speaking of, how did they translate Brutus thought just after? Because if I remember correctly that’s an example of a purely French very odd grammar thingy.

You mean Brutus annoyed at how Caesar said "You too, Brutus"? In Portuguese, it went sorta like: "I can't stand these allusions. Someday I'll lose my temper..."

Can you explain the pun in French?

[CriticalFailure]

{scrubbed}

[The_Weirdo]

{scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Just to make it absolutely and completely clear, I am talking only about Astérix. If someone wants to ban me or the matter for it being historical and/or politics, I'll demand a sample of the Magic Potion from them. :smalltongue:

[Ionathus]

"If you want to be different, do different stuff!"

It's so cool to see this comic find a new way to deliver "folksy wisdom" in a way that's fresh and fun to hear, but still simple and heartfelt.

Minrah was such a great addition to the team.

[KorvinStarmast]

Talking about The History of Rome podcast is always fantastic, it's just we never manage to shove the topic off of Star Wars to do it (I mean, that's what happens when we are on a Star Wars forum, we always talk about Star Wars). Rome and Star Wars have Emperors after being republics. They always fit together, even in absentia. (wait, did I use Latin correctly there?)

I have to say I found today's strip insightful. I can't imagine Minra as being anything but a cleric, because I never knew her as a town guard. What she says is hard as heck to do. Trying to fit in is a natural human urge (good thing she's a dwarf, eh?). You might say that we are hard wired to that instinct based on evolution, tribes, clans, etc, but I am wandering from topic there. What Minrah is encouraging Belkar to do is easy to say and hard to do. And I heartily endorse her taking that line! :smallcool: Hey, if being a hero, or a member of OoTS was easy, anyone could do it. Take up the gauntlet, Belkar!
Unfortunately, since Twitter is a blemish on humanity I may need to do some searching this weekend, the prospects of success are tantalizing.
If only he'd known about this group, he could've learned about herding cats. Pelee already knows about that. :smallcool:
She seems pretty Chaotic Good to me. Why not? Thor is Yep. And that's as far as I want to delve into an alignment discussion.

[CriticalFailure]

Just to make it absolutely and completely clear, I am talking only about Astérix. If someone wants to ban me or the matter for it being historical and/or politics, I'll demand a sample of the Magic Potion from them. :smalltongue:

{scrubbed}

[Rogar Demonblud]

{scrubbed}

[CriticalFailure]

{scrub the post, scrub the quote}

{scrubbed}

[flat_footed]

The Fullmetal Mod: Let's move on to an appropriate topic.

[Jasdoif]

But even then, posthumously is not actually derived from Latin humus - it is a superlative of posterus (cf. posterity) and has nothing to do with burial.Hmm...what about "exhumation"?

[Aaron L]

A genuine, meaningful friendship between the LG Minrah and the C? Belkar, which happened without any kind of plot contrivance but rather out of the natural development of the characters and story? I absolutely love it.

"Preach it sister!"

"I already am because I am a Cleric!"

What Minrah said about meeting new people applies to Belkar equally well, seeing as how she never met him back when he was a murderous, actively antagonistic jackass, but she seems to actually like the current Belkar who is just snarky.

[Deathhappens]

:belkar: Preach it, sister!
:smallsigh: I already am, because I'm a cleric!


You win this one, Giant. I actually care about our new cast member now.
...Not enough to remember her name out of hand, though. :biggrin:

[Fyraltari]

You mean Brutus annoyed at how Caesar said "You too, Brutus"? In Portuguese, it went sorta like: "I can't stand these allusions. Someday I'll lose my temper..."

Can you explain the pun in French?

It's not a pun. The "I'll lose my temper..." is originally "Je vais te me le..." Everyone familiar with the expression knows that the missing verb is "faire" (although it could be another like "farcir", "défoncer" or ruder ones). This is based on the expression "je vais me le faire" (litterally I will make him for me) meaning "I will hurt him and enjoy it". the thing that is odd is the added "te" (you/for you) which is something that sometimes added to slang to add some sort of emphasis, I would say, I'm not exactly sure what it does but it feels natural. I have no idea what it is linguistically speaking.

[The_Weirdo]

It's not a pun. The "I'll lose my temper..." is originally "Je vais te me le..." Everyone familiar with the expression knows that the missing verb is "faire" (although it could be another like "farcir", "défoncer" or ruder ones). This is based on the expression "je vais me le faire" (litterally I will make him for me) meaning "I will hurt him and enjoy it". the thing that is odd is the added "te" (you/for you) which is something that sometimes added to slang to add some sort of emphasis, I would say, I'm not exactly sure what it does but it feels natural. I have no idea what it is linguistically speaking.

Likely just an emphasis thing. If I had to guess. I'd guess that it's both a single syllable, which makes it attractive for emphasis, and began when interacting with another person - and then stuck, partly because doing this kind of stuff in front of someone else makes more of an impression...

What is more interesting about French as far as I'm concerned is how you guys use "faire" to mean "beat with sadistic pleasure", "tuer" (the etymology of which is "take care of", same source as "tutor") to mean "kill" and so on. I mean, it's my kind of language, really, even though I don't know nearly anything about it. :smallbiggrin:

[zinycor]

aaahhh!! such a cool and refreshing episode! and as always, the best episodes involve Belkar, the best character in the oots.

[Fyraltari]

Likely just an emphasis thing. If I had to guess. I'd guess that it's both a single syllable, which makes it attractive for emphasis, and began when interacting with another person - and then stuck.

What is more interesting about French as far as I'm concerned is how you guys use "faire" to mean "beat with sadistic pleasure", "tuer" (the etymology of which is "take care of") to mean "kill" and so on. I mean, it's my kind of language, really, even though I don't know nearly anything about it. :smallbiggrin:

"Faire" can mean anything depending on context really. Building, preparing, moving, being, killing, ****ing, just doing in general.

"Mettre" is very much the same.

[The_Weirdo]

"Faire" can mean anything depending on context really. Building, preparing, moving, being, killing, ****ing, just doing in general.

"Mettre" is very much the same.

Much like "do" in English, I would guess, yes.

That said, I'm still focused on "tuer". I mean, really, what is more awesome than going "In my native language, we substituted "take care of" for "kill"? :smallbiggrin:

[Fyraltari]

Much like "do" in English, I would guess, yes.

That said, I'm still focused on "tuer". I mean, really, what is more awesome than going "In my native language, we substituted "take care of" for "kill"? :smallbiggrin:

I'm not sure where you got that from, as far as I can tell (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tuer), it used to mean "extinguish" in Vulgar latin (tutare) from the proper latin "tutari" (protect).

[The_Weirdo]

I'm not sure where you got that from, as far as I can tell (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tuer), it used to mean "extinguish" in Vulgar latin (tutare) from the proper latin "tutari" (protect).

Sure, it came in the current meaning from Vulgar Latin. As for "tutari", it comes, I believe, from tueor, which, from Wikitionary as well (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tueor), it means "look", "care for" and "preserve/protect", no?

Welp, I may be wrong, though. I won't let my ego get in the way of my astounding humility. :smallbiggrin:

[Fyraltari]

Sure, it came in the current meaning from Vulgar Latin. As for "tutari", it comes, I believe, from tueor, which, from Wikitionary as well (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tueor), it means "look", "care for" and "preserve/protect", no?

Welp, I may be wrong, though. I won't let my ego get in the way of my astounding humility. :smallbiggrin:

True, true.

And in Portuguese, "kill" is "matar" (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/matar#Portuguese), yes? from latin macto (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/macto#Latin) "I reward"!

[hroþila]

What I'm hearing here is that tueur and tuteur are pretty much the same word.

Hmm...what about "exhumation"?
That one does derive from humus and refers to burial. Unlike hummus.

[Fyraltari]

What I'm hearing here is that tueur and tuteur are pretty much the same word.
I both hate and love this.


That one does derive from humus and refers to burial. Unlike hummus.
Which of course refers to deliciousness.

[The_Weirdo]

True, true.

And in Portuguese, "kill" is "matar" (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/matar#Portuguese), yes? from latin macto (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/macto#Latin) "I reward"!

I never said we were nice either. :smallbiggrin:

[Sniccups]

Rome and Star Wars have Emperors after being republics. They always fit together, even in absentia. (wait, did I use Latin correctly there?)

Looks fine to me.

[bunsen_h]

:belkar: Preach it, sister!
:smallsigh: I already am, because I'm a cleric!

Mods/admins: may we please have an OOTS Smilie to represent Minrah?

[Fyraltari]

Mods/admins: may we please have an OOTS Smilie to represent Minrah?

I believe anyone is free to make smilies and to propose them to be added into the thread that exists for that exact purpose.

[Anarion]

Love Belkar being confronted that way. He would never want to be a loser!

[LadyEowyn]

Rome and Star Wars have Emperors after being republics. They always fit together, even in absentia. (wait, did I use Latin correctly there?)
So did France, on no less than two occasions.

[Emanick]

That said, I'm still focused on "tuer". I mean, really, what is more awesome than going "In my native language, we substituted "take care of" for "kill"? :smallbiggrin:

I feel it would be remiss not to point out that "take care of" can mean "kill" in English, too. Granted, it's more of a mob boss-style euphemism than a literal statement, but it's surprisingly common nonetheless.

[The_Weirdo]

I feel it would be remiss not to point out that "take care of" can mean "kill" in English, too. Granted, it's more of a mob boss-style euphemism than a literal statement, but it's surprisingly common nonetheless.

Sure, the curious thing is it didn't literally become the main word for it in English. Of course, in Portuguese, it comes from reward, so... I don't know, Romance languages have something deeply awesome and unique about how they discuss death, maybe? :smallbiggrin:

Oh, and by the way, the Sphinx Pox got settled. You lost the bet. Pilgrim won. I will proceed to hire myself out as a quatloo repo man for a cut. :smalltongue:

[Emanick]

Sure, the curious thing is it didn't literally become the main word for it in English. Of course, in Portuguese, it comes from reward, so... I don't know, Romance languages have something deeply awesome and unique about how they discuss death, maybe? :smallbiggrin:

Oh, and by the way, the Sphinx Pox got settled. You lost the bet. Pilgrim won. I will proceed to hire myself out as a quatloo repo man for a cut. :smalltongue:

See, we disagree about that. I made the bet because I couldn't imagine the sphinx pox not being deliberately dealt with on-panel. "Directly addressing it" counts as a story role in my book; it's certainly a step or two up from "passing commentary." I didn't necessarily expect it to be important - I just didn't expect it to be ignored going forward. Which it wasn't.

That said, I admit that I did a bad job wording the bet. I should have anticipated the need for a more specific articulation of what I was talking about. Now I must deal with the shame of being pelted with jibes from passing forumites, forumites who are contemptuous of me for holding an attitude that fails to match any I ever held - all because I failed to be sufficiently precise in an idle gamble! Such is my tragic, all-too-well-deserved fate.

Ah well. With any luck, I'll be the next curator of the Number of Character Appearances thread, and I'll have something else to put in my signature instead. :smalltongue:

[danielxcutter]

Re: exhumation - I believe this is why the Discworld Assassin's Guild refers to their assassinations as "inhuming".

[Peelee]

See, we disagree about that. I made the bet because I couldn't imagine the sphinx pox not being deliberately dealt with on-panel. "Directly addressing it" counts as a story role in my book; it's certainly a step or two up from "passing commentary." I didn't necessarily expect it to be important - I just didn't expect it to be ignored going forward. Which it wasn't.
What would you accept as "passing commentary"? It was an incredibly brief mention, a small step up from a throwaway joke, solely in place to address the previous throwaway joke. I would call that resolution practically the definition of passing commentary.


Ah well. With any luck, I'll be the next curator of the Number of Character Appearances thread, and I'll have something else to put in my signature instead. :smalltongue:
You could also always curate my brilliance and wit, if you wish.:smallwink:

P.S. I am incredibly amused that the wikipedia entry on throwaway jokes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throwaway_line) references the best non-Futurama show there is, Better Call Saul.

[The_Weirdo]

See, we disagree about that. I made the bet because I couldn't imagine the sphinx pox not being deliberately dealt with on-panel. "Directly addressing it" counts as a story role in my book; it's certainly a step or two up from "passing commentary." I didn't necessarily expect it to be important - I just didn't expect it to be ignored going forward. Which it wasn't.

That said, I admit that I did a bad job wording the bet. I should have anticipated the need for a more specific articulation of what I was talking about. Now I must deal with the shame of being pelted with jibes from passing forumites, forumites who are contemptuous of me for holding an attitude that fails to match any I ever held - all because I failed to be sufficiently precise in an idle gamble! Such is my tragic, all-too-well-deserved fate.

Ah well. With any luck, I'll be the next curator of the Number of Character Appearances thread, and I'll have something else to put in my signature instead. :smalltongue:

So THAT'S why your clothes have a red SP on them?

[The Aboleth]

Aren't we all? If anything, I'm surprised hroþila (should I be capitalizing that, btw? I can never tell) is not pushing for more etymology talk (which I'd be completely down for), rather than being nice to me by suggesting my regurgitation of The History of Rome podcast content constitutes a fantastic topic of conversation (thanks for that, though, much appreciated).

Grey (parenthetical asides) Wolf


Talking about The History of Rome podcast is always fantastic, it's just we never manage to shove the topic off of Star Wars to do it (I mean, that's what happens when we are on a Star Wars forum, we always talk about Star Wars).

Oh, great to see other fans of The History of Rome podcast!

OOTS-related: I'm glad that Minrah is already contributing to the Party in her own, unique way. Can't help but think of that old quote from The Giant about regretting not adding another woman to the group originally and see a line from that to Minrah here. I wonder if Minrah was always a planned character or if the concept for her only came along partway through the story?

[Schroeswald]

Oh, great to see other fans of The History of Rome podcast!

OOTS-related: I'm glad that Minrah is already contributing to the Party in her own, unique way. Can't help but think of that old quote from The Giant about regretting not adding another woman to the group originally and see a line from that to Minrah here. I wonder if Minrah was always a planned character or if the concept for her only came along partway through the story?

The History of Rome podcast rules, the only people who aren’t fans are those who haven’t heard it.

On Minrah’s planning, Rich (I hate autocorrect so much, why did that need to be all-caps?) has said that he had no plans until about strip 100, and that he didn’t have the whole thing planned out until the end of Book 2, so that’s what from the beginning would mean, from strip 100-301. However based on Rich, I imagine he didn’t have anything for her except maybe thinking that they meet Hilgya and maybe low-level dwarf clerics in Book 6 at that point, at the earliest he probably started developing a seventh party member in Book 4, but I’d bet he didn’t come up with Minrah until somewhere in BRitF (remember I’m completely making this up, except for the first part this is complete speculation).

[The Aboleth]

The History of Rome podcast rules, the only people who aren’t fans are those who haven’t heard it.

On Minrah’s planning, Rich (I hate autocorrect so much, why did that need to be all-caps?) has said that he had no plans until about strip 100, and that he didn’t have the whole thing planned out until the end of Book 2, so that’s what from the beginning would mean, from strip 100-301. However based on Rich, I imagine he didn’t have anything for her except maybe thinking that they meet Hilgya and maybe low-level dwarf clerics in Book 6 at that point, at the earliest he probably started developing a seventh party member in Book 4, but I’d bet he didn’t come up with Minrah until somewhere in BRitF (remember I’m completely making this up, except for the first part this is complete speculation).

That makes sense. I'm also reminded of how he had a much more prominent role for Kilkil originally in mind for BRitF but the narrative ended up not having room for him...wonder if maybe the reverse happened here with Minrah (originally didn't think she'd have a big role until she really got fleshed out in the planning stage of UD)?

A question for the Patreon post, perhaps.

[Emanick]

What would you accept as "passing commentary"? It was an incredibly brief mention, a small step up from a throwaway joke, solely in place to address the previous throwaway joke. I would call that resolution practically the definition of passing commentary.

Basically, a joke that didn't directly solve the problem but merely referenced it. My hangup was less "this is serious and must be an ongoing storyline" and more "Rich doesn't just introduce obvious threats without following up anymore." I was defining "commentary" in opposition to "direct resolution/serious consequences."

Of course, it ended up being directly addressed without receiving any more panel space than "passing commentary" would, so I suppose I can't blame anyone for interpreting it differently than I did.


You could also always curate my brilliance and wit, if you wish.:smallwink:
I would love to. :smalltongue:


So THAT'S why your clothes have a red SP on them?

You got me. I wear a badge of shame around my neck every day as a reminder to myself that I must be Sufficiently Precise. At least it beats the scarlet "B+" I wore around my neck during our classroom discussions of The Scarlet Letter in eleventh grade.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

You could also always curate my brilliance and wit, if you wish.:smallwink

Seems like a job that wouldn’t require much work. :smallbiggrin:

(I am, of course, just kidding. We here are all in awe of your wit. And I am not contractually obligated to say this as your lotsey.)

[Ruck]

P.S. I am incredibly amused that the wikipedia entry on throwaway jokes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throwaway_line) references the best non-Futurama show there is, Better Call Saul.

I'm working on my big article about my favorite TV shows of the 2010s. Better Call Saul is in the top 30!

[The_Weirdo]

I'm working on my big article about my favorite TV shows of the 2010s. Better Call Saul is in the top 30!

I mean, isn't 30 a rather high number for this kind of thing?

Mind you, I love Better Call Saul.

[Ruck]

I mean, isn't 30 a rather high number for this kind of thing?

Mind you, I love Better Call Saul.

For the list overall? I have 85 shows on it, so 30 isn't a bad position.

Or is it a high number in relation to Peelee's sentiment? Because that's definitely true. I like the show, but I'm razzing him a little. :smalltongue:

[The_Weirdo]

For the list overall? I have 85 shows on it, so 30 isn't a bad position.

Or is it a high number in relation to Peelee's sentiment? Because that's definitely true. I like the show, but I'm razzing him a little. :smalltongue:

I mean for a "Top number of recent X"... Sounds like 5 or 10 might be a better number? I don't know. :smalltongue:

[Peelee]

Seems like a job that wouldn’t require much work. :smallbiggrin:
Ya know, I really did set myself up for that one.:smallamused:

I'm working on my big article about my favorite TV shows of the 2010s. Better Call Saul is in the top 30!
I assume numbers 1-29 are Futurama.

The Office is also acceptable.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I mean for a "Top number of recent X"... Sounds like 5 or 10 might be a better number? I don't know. :smalltongue:

To Be Serious: There were a lot of shows in the 2010s, especially once all the streaming services followed Netflix and started making their own content.

To Be Frivolous, maybe Ruck just isn't decisive enough to cut the list down?

[OneSpartan]

New comic is up.

This one is awesome. Thanks, Rich.

"Every passing minute is another chance to turn it all around"


.

[Quizatzhaderac]

And in Portuguese, "kill" is "matar" (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/matar#Portuguese), yes? from latin macto (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/macto#Latin) "I reward"!That's very evil overlord-ish. In, fact.... yep, Rich has done it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0824.html).

[Ruck]

Ya know, I really did set myself up for that one.:smallamused:

I assume numbers 1-29 are Futurama.

The Office is also acceptable.

If we're talking solely the 2010s? I'm afraid not.

Same with The Office. Now, if The Office ended after season 3, it'd be near the top of my entire list of shows of the 21st century. But the second half of season 6 to the end? That leaves out nearly all of the good parts of the show.
I mean for a "Top number of recent X"... Sounds like 5 or 10 might be a better number? I don't know. :smalltongue:

Ten years is a long time.


To Be Serious: There were a lot of shows in the 2010s, especially once all the streaming services followed Netflix and started making their own content.

To Be Frivolous, maybe Ruck just isn't decisive enough to cut the list down?

Well, I was at least decisive enough to put the list in order in the first place. :smalltongue:

But there is a lot of TV out there, and I wanted to recognize, in particular, a lot of the shows I really liked but had short runs or were cancelled before their time. A whole lot of shows fall into this category, from Benched to Enlisted to Great News to Trial and Error to American Vandal to Terriers to Ben and Kate to Party Down to Detroiters to Don't Trust the B---- in Apt. 23... (and more!)

[Peelee]

If we're talking solely the 2010s? I'm afraid not.
Eh, you're allowed to be wrong.:smalltongue:

Same with The Office. Now, if The Office ended after season 3, it'd be near the top of my entire list of shows of the 21st century. But the second half of season 6 to the end? That leaves out nearly all of the good parts of the show.
I rather like Andy, and thought he held his own as manager. Sure, he was no Michael, and he could never hold a plotline like Scott's Tots, but it was stills solidly good. Plus, the other characters came even more into the forefront. The culmination of Dwight and Jim's relationship is one of the best arcs in the series, and all of that was post-Michael Scott.

At least, until they completely changed his character and made him an unlikeable ass.

Ten years is a long time.
Indeed. Also, it's a top-30, which means it could still well be number 1! I say, ignoring that you could use a smaller number if that had any chance of being true.

But there is a lot of TV out there, and I wanted to recognize, in particular, a lot of the shows I really liked but had short runs or were cancelled before their time. A whole lot of shows fall into this category, from Benched to Enlisted to Great News to Trial and Error to American Vandal to Terriers to Ben and Kate to Party Down to Detroiters to Don't Trust the B---- in Apt. 23... (and more!)
No love for A. P. Bio or Barry? OK, Barry isn't cancelled, but I'm waiting too dang long for Season 3! I WANT MY NOHO HANK FIX, HBO!

For reals, though, any chance you can throw up the list? I'm interested!

[Ruck]

Eh, you're allowed to be wrong.:smalltongue:
A handful of episodes aside, I didn't find the revival as good as the original. Still, it does deserve mention on the list.


I rather like Andy, and thought he held his own as manager. Sure, he was no Michael, and he could never hold a plotline like Scott's Tots, but it was stills solidly good. Plus, the other characters came even more into the forefront. The culmination of Dwight and Jim's relationship is one of the best arcs in the series, and all of that was post-Michael Scott.

At least, until they completely changed his character and made him an unlikeable ass.

I stopped watching the show regularly around the turn of the decade, and when I did check in, I found a couple of pretty-good episodes but some just awful ones as well. I don't think the show ever came close after that point to the highlights and consistency of seasons 2 and 3.


Indeed. Also, it's a top-30, which means it could still well be number 1! I say, ignoring that you could use a smaller number if that had any chance of being true.
You are technically correct, the best kind of correct! You are also more specifically correct.


No love for A. P. Bio or Barry? OK, Barry isn't cancelled, but I'm waiting too dang long for Season 3! I WANT MY NOHO HANK FIX, HBO!

For reals, though, any chance you can throw up the list? I'm interested!

A.P. Bio isn't cancelled either! Season 3 is going to air on Peacock, NBC's digital streaming service. (Apparently the show's 100-day streaming numbers massively outpace its actual live-TV ratings.) I'm surprised we haven't gotten a Barry season 3 premiere date announced yet; the last two seasons premiered at the end of March, so maybe it will premiere when Curb Your Enthusiasm and Avenue 5 finish their seasons.

Also, both A.P. Bio and Barry are also in my top 30!

I'm finishing up the capsule writeups for each show so I can publish the entire list on a site I write for next week, but I could post just the list here, no problem. (I mean, I don't know if the discussion thread for the latest comic strip is appropriate for that, but I'll just blame you if it's not. :smalltongue:)

[Schroeswald]

Nothing we ever talk about is appropriate for this thread and we continue to do it, thread derailment is fun.
also I’d definitely be interested in seeing your list, I doubt I’ve seen any shows on it but it’s be interesting.

[Ruck]

Nothing we ever talk about is appropriate for this thread

Signature-worthy!

OK, OK, when I have a few minutes to take a break and compile the list, I'll do it.

[Quizatzhaderac]

Well, if anyone feels the comic hasn't bee over-analysed enough, we can speculate on why Belkar removed his hood; he's in the arctic in a headwind. Maybe he acquired a protection from cold item? He'll stop breathing/eating cake because he's turning into a ice construct?

[ebarde]

Him taking out the hood is a symbolic gesture, notice how he does so at the moment he begins opening up. It's meant to represent him being vulnerable, and also cause from a stylistic point of view I assume Rich might have figured out that his facial expressions would be more effective if the hood was down, as it covers quite a bit of his face.

Also what are those little cloud things? I thought they were supposed to represent the ship being damaged, but they clearly appear to be in front of the characters and change position often. Is it like a piece of something that is floating about?

[Peelee]

Also what are those little cloud things? I thought they were supposed to represent the ship being damaged, but they clearly appear to be in front of the characters and change position often. Is it like a piece of something that is floating about?
Their breath.

[Frozenstep]

Also what are those little cloud things? I thought they were supposed to represent the ship being damaged, but they clearly appear to be in front of the characters and change position often. Is it like a piece of something that is floating about?

It's their breath. Misting up in the cold.

Edit: Dang ninja'd.

[Peelee]

A handful of episodes aside, I didn't find the revival as good as the original.
Same, and yet it still ranks as number 1 for me. What can I say, the show is magical.:smallwink:

I stopped watching the show regularly around the turn of the decade, and when I did check in, I found a couple of pretty-good episodes but some just awful ones as well. I don't think the show ever came close after that point to the highlights and consistency of seasons 2 and 3.
I think the consistency lasted considerably longer (though i hate the Pam/Jim wedding episode), but I understand.

A.P. Bio isn't cancelled either! Season 3 is going to air on Peacock, NBC's digital streaming service. (Apparently the show's 100-day streaming numbers massively outpace its actual live-TV ratings.) I'm surprised we haven't gotten a Barry season 3 premiere date announced yet; the last two seasons premiered at the end of March, so maybe it will premiere when Curb Your Enthusiasm and Avenue 5 finish their seasons.
On the one hand, yay for A.P. Bio! As much as I love Glenn Howerton, the kids are doing one helluva job keeping up with and occasionally outshining him. Always Sunny is still going strong as ever, of course.

On the other hand, dangit, I really want to support individual networks' streaming services as little as possible!

I'm finishing up the capsule writeups for each show so I can publish the entire list on a site I write for next week, but I could post just the list here, no problem. (I mean, I don't know if the discussion thread for the latest comic strip is appropriate for that, but I'll just blame you if it's not. :smalltongue:)
Having its own thread in the Media Discussions forum would probably get a lot more discussion.

[Rogar Demonblud]

It's their breath. Misting up in the cold.

Edit: Dang ninja'd.

Worse. The NinjaGuy got outninja'd by a dragon.

[Ruck]

Having its own thread in the Media Discussions forum would probably get a lot more discussion.

Request granted. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?608261-Ruck-presents-My-favorite-TV-shows-of-the-2010s)

[Emanick]

Well, if anyone feels the comic hasn't bee over-analysed enough, we can speculate on why Belkar removed his hood; he's in the arctic in a headwind. Maybe he acquired a protection from cold item? He'll stop breathing/eating cake because he's turning into a ice construct?

At this point, I kind of assume all the protagonists have some magical protection from cold active. They're high-level adventurers at the North Pole, and they had time to shop for magic items before they headed up there. Even if it's only a spell from Durkon (and hopefully it isn't, since he needs all the spell slots he can get before the team goes up against Xykon), there's probably something protecting Belkar.

[The_Weirdo]

That's very evil overlord-ish. In, fact.... yep, Rich has done it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0824.html).

Fun fact: Shelby is actually from Grândola (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%A2ndola), a delightful (and, if Zeca Afonso is to be believed, tan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaLWqy4e7ls)) village in Portugal, and his actual name is Sandro Arantes Benevides Guimarães de Pádua. :smalltongue:

[Peelee]

At this point, I kind of assume all the protagonists have some magical protection from cold active. They're high-level adventurers at the North Pole, and they had time to shop for magic items before they headed up there. Even if it's only a spell from Durkon (and hopefully it isn't, since he needs all the spell slots he can get before the team goes up against Xykon), there's probably something protecting Belkar.

They do have protection. Coats.:smallwink:

[Quizatzhaderac]

They do have protection. Coats.:smallwink:I don't see "coats" in the 3.5 PHB. What splatbook are they from? Or are they one of those 4e things?

[Peelee]

I don't see "coats" in the 3.5 PHB.

Did you look in the "Goods and Services" section, specifically page 131?:smallamused:

Cold Weather Outfit
A cold weather outfit includes a wool coat, linen shirt, wool cap, heavy cloak, thick pants or skirt, and boots. This outfit grants a +5 circumstance bonus on Fortitude saving throws against exposure to cold weather.

[Quizatzhaderac]

Sorry, I was trying to be a sarcastic-*** by pretending to not know what a coat was, but I should have checked if coats where actually stated.

[Peelee]

Sorry, I was trying to be a sarcastic-*** by pretending to not know what a coat was
I noticed. Unfortunately for you, I also noticed the second part as well.:smalltongue:

[Jasdoif]

Did you look in the "Goods and Services" section, specifically page 131?:smallamused:Arms and Equipment Guide, admittedly a 3.0 book, also has pricing for mundane coats by material.

[MossyMeow]

Arms and Equipment Guide, admittedly a 3.0 book, also has pricing for mundane coats by material.

Wait, they made a splatbook about mundane equipment? I love this game.

[Peelee]

Wait, they made a splatbook about mundane equipment? I love this game.

It was a pretty good one too, IMO. Didn't realize it wasn't updated to 3.5.

[Jasdoif]

Wait, they made a splatbook about mundane equipment?Well, the book kind of goes all over the place; but there is indeed a chapter on mundane adventuring gear (with a few pages of not-technically-magical alchemical items), that can answer questions like "how much does a silk sash (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0742.html) cost?", or "how many pounds of pineapples (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0515.html) can 300gp buy?" And with prices for basil, garlic, oregano, onions, (sun?) dried tomatoes and olive oil; you could conceivably introduce marinara sauce to the world o_o

[Grey_Wolf_c]

"how many pounds of pineapples (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0515.html) can 300gp buy?" And with prices for basil, garlic, oregano, onions, (sun?) dried tomatoes and olive oil; you could conceivably introduce marinara sauce to the world o_o

Even better: sounds to me like you have all necessary ingredients to make a Hawaiian pizza, and collapse any attempt to play into a discussion about pineapple on pizza.

Grey Wolf

[Doug Lampert]

Even better: sounds to me like you have all necessary ingredients to make a Hawaiian pizza, and collapse any attempt to play into a discussion about pineapple on pizza.

Grey Wolf

The virtue of Hawaiian pizza is that I can use it to distract my wife from whatever I'm eating.

Otherwise it's a waste of ingredients.

[Jasdoif]

Even better: sounds to me like you have all necessary ingredients to make a Hawaiian pizza, and collapse any attempt to play into a discussion about pineapple on pizza.Sugar and ham and bacon are all priced too, so yes...although the etymology of "Canadian bacon" makes for an interesting discussion.

[Peelee]

Sugar and ham and bacon are all priced too, so yes...although the etymology of "Canadian bacon" makes for an interesting discussion.

Given that Hawaiian pizza is a Canadian invention, I don't mind wonky etymology much.:smalltongue:

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Given that Hawaiian pizza is a Canadian invention, I don't mind wonky etymology much.:smalltongue:

Greek-born, too. And the pizza was named after the brand of pineapple he happened to have on hand.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

Greek-born, too. And the pizza was named after the brand of pineapple he happened to have on hand.

Grey Wolf

A Greek-born Canadian inventing a Italian-based food variation named after an American island. Truly, this is a pizza that should bring people together, not tear them apart!

[Fyraltari]

A Greek-born Canadian inventing a Italian-based food variation named after an American island. Truly, this is a pizza that should bring people together, not tear them apart!

With fruits from South America!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

With fruits from South America!

Sure, but that's true of all pizzas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato#History).
Ok, except white pizzas. But the classic ones all use tomatoes.
Grey Wolf

[Fyraltari]

Sure, but that's true of all pizzas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato#History).
Ok, except white pizzas. But the classic ones all use tomatoes.
Grey Wolf

I did write fruits.

Yes I am going to pretend this was intentional. You can't prove otherwise.

[Schroeswald]

I did write fruits.

Yes I am going to pretend this was intentional. You can't prove otherwise.
Last I checked tomatos were fruits.

[Fyraltari]

Last I checked tomatos were fruits.

I did not state or imply otherwise.

[Peelee]

Last I checked tomatos were fruits.

Most pizzas are made with one fruit, tomato. Hawaiian is made with two fruits, tomato and pineapple.

Which is not ananas.

[Jasdoif]

Sure, but that's true of all pizzas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato#History).It's at least contestable whether focaccia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focaccia) counts as pizza; but the pizza effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza_effect) is more interesting digression.

At least as interesting as the story (https://www.kitchenproject.com/history/CanadianBacon/) that the first "canadian bacon" was back bacon imported from Canada and smoked in England, making "canadian bacon" sort of an idiom (especially since in both the US and Canada, "bacon" typically means "side bacon").

[Pampukin]

Most pizzas are made with one fruit, tomato. Hawaiian is made with two fruits, tomato and pineapple.

Which is not ananas.

You know? To this day I had never noticed that Anana is just Banana without the B, and I live in a spanish speaking country. God I missed this forums.

Offtopic(on the pizza/fruit/bacon topic) We know Minrah can cast 3rd level spells right? She is a spell level short on getting Divine Power then, and being able to put those fighter feats to good use. Do we know what domains are within Thors area? Im trying to think what spells can she bring to the table that would be usefull agains the high level enemies, although I assume there will be lower level mooks to fight aswell.

[Fyraltari]

Which is not ananas.

https://s2.qwant.com/thumbr/0x380/5/2/a7ca18912cb32120c52ca4c232aa8abadc7c28dda59598d583 3d557b7cc0f8/according-to-this-youre-a-heretic-19285579.png?u=https%3A%2F%2Fpics.me.me%2Faccordin g-to-this-youre-a-heretic-19285579.png&q=0&b=1&p=0&a=1

[Quizatzhaderac]

You know? To this day I had never noticed that Anana is just Banana without the B, and I live in a spanish speaking country. God I missed this forums.I dream of one day creating a hybrid banana-pineapple just to force latinae to say "bananaanana".

[Fyraltari]

I dream of one day creating a hybrid banana-pineapple just to force latinae to say "bananaanana".

We'd just call it ananabanana.

[Peelee]

I dream of one day creating a hybrid banana-pineapple just to force latinae to say "bananaanana".


We'd just call it ananabanana.

Pinebanana.:smallamused:

Also I'm like 80% sure the non-latin-speaking latin folk say piña

[D.One]

Which is not ananas.

We also call it "abacaxi" here in Brazil, and I must say that what it definitely is not is and apple that grows on a pine tree... :smalltongue::smalltongue::smalltongue:

[Jasdoif]

Pinebanana.:smallamused:I think that's a musafolk with the woodling template, actually.