Castlevania Season 3 (the Netflix show)

[Ramza00]

So the new season of Castlevania came out today. 10 Episodes so a little more than 4 hours of video.

Does anyone have thoughts or opinions? Oh there are some background references to other properties if you are into that. :smalltongue:


Edit: I forgot...

I do not know if there is a Season 2 thread, but here is the Season 1 thread.

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?525443-Castlevania-Netflix

[Olinser]

So the new season of Castlevania came out today. 10 Episodes so a little more than 4 hours of video.

Does anyone have thoughts or opinions? Oh there are some background references to other properties if you are into that. :smalltongue:


Edit: I forgot...

I do not know if there is a Season 2 thread, but here is the Season 1 thread.

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?525443-Castlevania-Netflix

Oh **** I missed that it was coming out!

https://memecrunch.com/meme/BJRWK/hurry-up/image.gif?w=480&c=1

Must binge watch and report back.

[Wraith]

I completely missed that it was coming out this week - I thought it wasn't due until the end of April. Must have remembered 04/03 as 30/04 while skim-reading, or something :smalltongue:

I thought that season 1 was excellent, and while comparatively a little flabby in the middle I really enjoyed season 2 as well.
I will definitely start my binge of season 3 tonight, and I'm really looking forward to it - my knowledge of the Castlevania plot (such as it is) ended with the death of Dracula, and while I know the current antagonists are important I don't know why, so I'm looking forward to finding out more.

[Lemmy]

Watched 5 episodes... Will watch the rest today.

So far, it's been a really slow season. Completely focused on character development. Which is fine... But the forte of the series has always been its action scenes. And there pnly 2 so far, one of which was rather short... Hopefully the 2nd half of fhe season is more exciting.

[Lemmy]

Finished watching it... By far the weakest season. We spend a bunch of time with a bunch of new characters, and yet... I couldn't care less about any of them or about what's going on.

Alucard is completely wastes. Trevor and Sypha are better... They at least so things, but by the end of the season, I was rolling my eyes.

A few good action scenes here and there, but overall, it felt very slow, pretentious and pointless.
This season really should have 4~6 episodes long. And could have used a better writer too.

[JadedDM]

This season really should have 4~6 episodes long. And could have used a better writer too.

The writer for every episode this season, last season and the first season is the same person--Warren Ellis.

[Lemmy]

The writer for every episode this season, last season and the first season is the same person--Warren Ellis.
Well... Then he should go back to doing whatever he was doing before.

[khadgar567]

Well entire season is kinda hog as not much reason to use meteor hammer. But good thing is in future plot gonna speed up a quite a bit as forge masters gonna clash( here is a obscure part of games plot) and our lovely duo gonna be cleaning their mess.

[Ortho]

Well, this is certainly different. Not bad different - it never felt like it was jumping the shark or anything - but it did get a lot more sci-fi than I was expecting. Seems like they got a budget bump, too, judging by the large amount of CG set pieces.

The only things that really bugged me were Sypha using her fire spells as rocket propulsion (am I the only one who thinks it would make more sense for her to fly using, I don't know, the air?) and the gratuitous vampire sex. Minor nitpicks, though. Aside from those, pretty good season. I appreciate the slower pace; it made the world feel less hectic and more grounded, and snuck in some character development.

[BisectedBrioche]

I've watched Episode 3.01 and just starting 3.02. First impressions:


Ship (on wheels) confirmed, ship confirmed and SHIP CONFIRMED!
Sucks to be Hector
Isaac somehow managing to be chill and completely extra. I love it!
EDIT: Not so chill



Further EDIT: Most of the dialogue seems to be everyone snarking each other. This is what I signed up for!

[Olinser]

It was pretty good and I'll definitely watch Season 4 when it comes out.

But my main knock this season is that it quite frankly ISN'T a complete season. There's a lot of setup and a lot of movement and character/world building, but no resolution to the main plot threads for Hector/Isaac.

It's basically just the first half of a season.

[Ramza00]

It was pretty good and I'll definitely watch Season 4 when it comes out.

But my main knock this season is that it quite frankly ISN'T a complete season. There's a lot of setup and a lot of movement and character/world building, but no resolution to the main plot threads for Hector/Isaac.

It's basically just the first half of a season.

Why do we "need" resolution?

While I am not talking spoilers in the spoiler blocks. I am still putting it in the spoiler blocks for some people are only 1 or 2 episodes into this 10 episode 4+ hour season.



The story is not over and ending each season with a resolution creates expectation of a specific form.
While ending a season without a resolution creates a different form of expectation.

Let's view this from another perspective. The traditional 3 act structure for storytelling is good for certain types of stories like we are telling an action story and we want cathartic relief at the end of the story. I will argue Castlevania Season 3 is trying to trigger a different genre and that one is more similar to horror, and thus denying cathartic relief at the end of the season was precisely the point, it was precisely the expectation the writers, creator, producers, directors, etc wanted to leave the audience with.

Remember there are different types of horror relief at the end of the Season. For example in She Ra Season 4 the Antagonists seem to have all the cards in their hands and thus the Protagonists future is uncertain. This is one type of horror but there are many forms of horrible tension to leave the audience with. Well Castlevania is arguing from a nightmare framework where the idea of certainty about the future is inherently uncertain, you can't trust anything after the events of Season 3 of Castlevania, betrayal may happen from the people you trust the most.

The Season 3 nightmare ending is meant to disavow and rebut the Season 2 ending where the protagonists are triumphant at the end of Season 2. After a triumph we forsee, as most human instinct is, a resolution with the resolution being positive and optimistic. Put another way Season 3 is deconstructing Season 2's tropes.

If Castlevania never gets a 4th season it would be like a horror short story / novella where the ending is meant to create dread and uncertainty like it is a twilight zone episode. If Castlevania does get a 4th season then we just saw Act 1, 2, and 3 of a 5 act story structure with Season 4 providing Act 4 and 5. Cramming 5 acts in a single season is sometimes counterproductive, many works of fiction purposefully ad a break of weeks, months, years, to create a sense of time where your thoughts linger, explore, and forget so you grapple with your emotions during that time.


------

So what I am saying, how is a positive or negative "Knock" it is just a different taste, a different expectation. Some people expected sweet and we got sour plus some spicy. A legitimate taste in its own right.

[BisectedBrioche]

Up to episode 4


More corrupt monks, but at least they're openly corrupt instead?
I like how they're contrasting Alucard and his new students with Hector. Unless they wind up thinking he's crazy because of the dolls or something. :smallamused:
Isaac continues to be both an awful person and living the dream
The apple metaphor is pretty on the nose (I mean, the judge looks pretty untrustworthy, so I'm guessing he's in on the conspiracy somehow?).

[druid91]

So, just finished.

Splitting this up by general plot thread.

Alucard: Somehow more dull than the Hector plot. Important Character development in ruining his prior commitment to humanity with two flatly misanthropic twins. 4th place.

Hector & the Carmilla Crew: Honestly, pretty darn dull. I know a lot of people had a pretty strong reaction to Lenore and her shenanigans, but it was only just barely above Alucard's plot in that it actually had some solid jokes in the earliest bits, and has some potential interest going forward. A weak 3rd.

Isaac: So. I'd already liked Isaac from Season 2. And Season 3 Isaac did not disappoint. His entire storyline here was one of the two better ones though pretty simplistic. It was a bad*** Necromancer Army Building Romp with a side of re-discovering himself. An unlikely second place because I enjoyed it a lot, but...

Belmont & Belnades: So, this whole plot was a lot. And it was just amazing. I didn't think they'd be able to best Isaac's rampage across the desert. But honestly? The entire plot with the Dracula cult was amazing, and the fights were just as crazy as before. Definite 1st place.

Points I still don't get:

*What's with the 'Judge' and his pit?

*Who is the Pirate of the Roads and will we ever see him?

*Where did Saint Germain go?

[Ramza00]

So, just finished.

Splitting this up by general plot thread.

Alucard: Somehow more dull than the Hector plot. Important Character development in ruining his prior commitment to humanity with two flatly misanthropic twins. 4th place.

Hector & the Carmilla Crew: Honestly, pretty darn dull. I know a lot of people had a pretty strong reaction to Lenore and her shenanigans, but it was only just barely above Alucard's plot in that it actually had some solid jokes in the earliest bits, and has some potential interest going forward. A weak 3rd.

Isaac: So. I'd already liked Isaac from Season 2. And Season 3 Isaac did not disappoint. His entire storyline here was one of the two better ones though pretty simplistic. It was a bad*** Necromancer Army Building Romp with a side of re-discovering himself. An unlikely second place because I enjoyed it a lot, but...

Belmont & Belnades: So, this whole plot was a lot. And it was just amazing. I didn't think they'd be able to best Isaac's rampage across the desert. But honestly? The entire plot with the Dracula cult was amazing, and the fights were just as crazy as before. Definite 1st place.

Points I still don't get:

*What's with the 'Judge' and his pit?

*Who is the Pirate of the Roads and will we ever see him?

*Where did Saint Germain go?





I am going to keep this real basic for the rules of the forum. Trying to keep it basic will make some of my post cryptic and I am sorry for that. That said if you are curious for more I figure it will be enough you can use google and wikipedia to answer your questions if you still have them.

The Judge part with the Apple Tree, and his serial killer pit around the apple tree is about the Garden of Eden and the nature of choice. Furthermore why an apple tree? Well in later christian writings the idea of the tree with eden in art became an apple tree due to a latin pun. Borrowing from wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_(symbolism)


The classical Greek word μήλον (mēlon), or dialectal μᾶλον (mālon), now a loanword in English as melon, meant tree fruit in general,
but was borrowed into Latin as mālum, meaning 'apple'.
The similarity of this word to Latin mălum, meaning 'evil', may also have influenced the apple's becoming interpreted as the biblical "forbidden fruit" in the commonly used Latin translation called "Vulgate".


Aka how you stress the a in mălum (evil / wicked) vs mālum (apple) signifies to the reader / listener which word you are talking about. The a in mălum sounds like the a in the word malice (which also descends from Latin) while the a in mălum (apple) is more like an a in the word about.

[Sidenote a similar pun is used with the word utopia. eutopia means "The Good Place" in Greek, while "outopia" means "No Place" and thus Sir Thomas More in the 1500s when he coined the term utopia he was signify this place does not exist in the material world, only in the world of our mind / imaginations.]

-----

The nature of good and evil in religion with the garden of eden I can't really talk about in this forum. That said if we have an incomplete view in the show of someone's perspective of the nature of good and evil. Incomplete for it is not elaborated upon.

The speakers believe that man can cooperate and perfect this material world. What this means, and how you would do it is not elaborated on, it was a single line drop by Sypha (Something about the speakers are against god for something something tower of babel that is not clearly laid out in the show, and I can't speculate more on it due to forum rules.)

The whole point though with the Judge character is to challenge Sypha and Trevor's view on the nature of humanity, but Sypha more for she was the optimist of this couple, while Trevor has seen depravity of humanity but through his relationship with Sypha and Alucard...Trevor is remembering humans can be good, worth saving, and that bonds with other humans is what makes life worth living. [Not just Beer.]

-----








St. Germain is a character in the Castlevania Curse of Darkness where he is a time traveler. This is the same game with Hector and Issac. I haven't played this game and we know Warren Ellis via interviews do not play the games either though he does read summaries of games and borrows ideas from them.

But St Germain in myth is also a thing if I were to put money down Warren Ellis is also familiar with based off his previous writings. Count of St. Germain was a real life person who rubbed shoulders with the famous people in the 1700s in England, France, and the Netherlands / Dutch Republic. He claimed many outrageous things and would not divulge his true origins, when he was pressed he claimed to be 500 years old and from Transylvania where at his birth he was a prince. Well many people of the time did not take him seriously but he did rub shoulders with the upper classes of the 1700s where lots of people found him interesting.

Supposedly St Germain was interested in Alchemy, Philosophy, Mysticism, Medicine, Art, Secret Societies etc.

Well after his death his myth grew and he was supposed to be the secret prophet who know many things such as being a key figure in the occult traditions of Helena Blavatsky's Theosophy. Some Theosophist believed this immortal was incarnated in previous lifetimes as people such as Plato, Hesiod who wrote the Greek Chronology of the Gods, Merlin, Christopher Columbus, Francis Bacon (and Bacon also wrote Shakespeare's plays) etc, etc with a dozen other people.

Other traditions said Saint Germain was somehow connected to Jesus. [Skips sharing more due to forum rules.] You can figure it out from here with google and wikipedia if you are still curious for more.

-----

So what I am saying who is St Germain in this Castlevania season is a moment of question. All we know is time and space is weird now in Castlevania Season 3 for those Gateways allow you to revive the dead but also go to different worlds, different universes, and different times and space.

[Eldan]

I knew about the real St. Germain before, and he is quite fascinating.

[Eldan]

So, just finished.

Splitting this up by general plot thread.

Alucard: Somehow more dull than the Hector plot. Important Character development in ruining his prior commitment to humanity with two flatly misanthropic twins. 4th place.

Hector & the Carmilla Crew: Honestly, pretty darn dull. I know a lot of people had a pretty strong reaction to Lenore and her shenanigans, but it was only just barely above Alucard's plot in that it actually had some solid jokes in the earliest bits, and has some potential interest going forward. A weak 3rd.

Isaac: So. I'd already liked Isaac from Season 2. And Season 3 Isaac did not disappoint. His entire storyline here was one of the two better ones though pretty simplistic. It was a bad*** Necromancer Army Building Romp with a side of re-discovering himself. An unlikely second place because I enjoyed it a lot, but...

Belmont & Belnades: So, this whole plot was a lot. And it was just amazing. I didn't think they'd be able to best Isaac's rampage across the desert. But honestly? The entire plot with the Dracula cult was amazing, and the fights were just as crazy as before. Definite 1st place.

Points I still don't get:

*What's with the 'Judge' and his pit?

*Who is the Pirate of the Roads and will we ever see him?

*Where did Saint Germain go?

"Alucard adupts two human puppies" was definitely the weakest part of the season. I enjoyed it otherwise.

[Wraith]

Binged the last 7 episodes. I have to say that I was disappointed, not because it was bad but because it wasn't what I was hoping for. I recognise that there is a difference between the two things.

As has been pointed out, Season 3 is a lot of setup for Season 4, which is always a very brave move - let's say that fans don't get the 'long term plan' for the show and think that Season 3 is just a bit dull, so the show is cancelled - Castlevania is forever remembered as being the show that had a boring last season, which isn't strictly true and I'm sure there are examples in other shows to whom exactly that happened.

The problem I have is that the main characters all go through an arc and basically go right back to where they started in some recognisable fashion, just in different physical locations and having killed a whole bunch of secondary characters that we hadn't met before and really didn't care about.

I really like the dynamic between Sypher and Trevor, who is fast becoming one of my favourite heroes across many forms of media. Together they have a great dynamic, I enjoy the choreography that goes into their different fighting styles, and I never feel that what they're doing is dull. They just don't achieve anything in series 3, though; they come into a random town, spend a long time arguing with mad monks, then go and fight a big monster at the end when everyone is already dead.
The monster has no name, no voice, no goals or motivations other than "do monstery stuff" - I wouldn't call it a "token" fight scene to end the show with some action because I enjoyed the action a lot, but it could have been just some Monster Of The Week and it left me wanting something more... significant? It's a very good example of how insignificant the life of an adventurer really is, compared to the machinations of warlords and powerful wizards, but I'm not sure that's the lesson I should be taking away from a show about the heir to the Belmont family, of all things.
Either way, over 10 episodes Trevor and Sypher end up back on the road having earned nothing or really learnt anything, except now Sypher is sad and Trevor is jaded again. This could have been condensed by quite a bit, I feel.

I grew to like Isaac a lot more during this season. He explored his motivations and heard some differing opinions and I'm really interested in seeing what he chooses to do next, because at the minute he *technically* opposes the vampires but only insofar as they have something he wants. Even so, he ends the series very similar to how he began - alone with just his monsters, wandering a strange place and looking for a way to bring back Dracula while deciding if he should kill everyone first or do it later. Again, it could have been condensed and we could have ended the season on a more substantial note where the various factions are actually ready to start their campaigns, not just on the verge of beginning to prepare for them.

I like Hector. He's a more-or-less sympathetic character and not the monster that his profession might suggest, but goddamn it I was hoping for some growth! Having been manipulated by a vampire and betrayed, he ends the season by... being betrayed by another vampire who manipulated him. Inside I was screaming how little it takes to gain his trust and how little he has learned while literally standing there with a leash around his neck.
I realise that I am probably projecting - I *want* Hector to unleash what he can do, because he's the quietest of the characters so far and it would be so cathartic to see him tear everything down. The show, however, makes him look stupidly gullible and his suffering is bordering on self-inflicted. Of all the plots, his is the one I want to see more of, if only to hear him justify why he is like he is and what he's going to do about it. Meanwhile it's just slightly infuriating.

Alucard is... tricky. On the one hand, I get what the writers were trying to portray - that he is lonely and craves company, but if he lets down his guard then the world itself will suffer as others plunder his father's knowledge. That he realises this and becomes more jaded like his father - he even points out at the very end what he's doing is what Dracula did - is logical character progression. On the other, it just takes forever and by the end of it he hasn't interacted with anyone or done anything beyond exist and grow slightly more callous. Again, I think it needed condensing and to push him into a position of doing or achieving something of significance at the end of the season, because at present he's so utterly remote from the rest of the plot and characters that he might as well not exist. If anything, I wanted to see more of him talking to his dolls of Sypher and Trevor, so that we could see that he had even SOME connection to them, vague as it might be.

Oh yes, and I also didn't like the overlapping of the sex/fight scenes in the penultimate episode. I get what they writers were going for - various puns on the word 'climax' will be involved somewhere, I'm sure - and I get the importance of showing the converging events that define the characters' efforts in the season so far.
Yet, there were 4 different plots all going on at the same time, two of which big pitched battles with very beautiful imagery and very intricate direction, and I think I would have preferred them to take place at different times - it would have been easier to watch without the sudden 4-way cuts, and each were impressive enough that they deserved some time being dedicated to them alone and sharing screen-time did slightly spoil the overall effect.

I liked it. I am glad that I watched it, and I enjoyed the studies of the different characters, their motivations and I will definitely enjoy speculating on where they're going to go with it next. I really wish that more time had been spent on character achieving some goals and arriving at a cliffhanger before they engaged in conflict, because right now everyone is still far away from direct conflict and that makes me feel less confident about the beginning of season 4; I feel like it will start with more manoeuvring and more exposition, when what I want is pacing more like Season 1 where we get into the meat of the story quickly and have milestone events to keep piquing my interest every so often rather than save it all up for the end.

[Eldan]

I just remembered one scene that unreasonably annoyed me.

So, Episode 9, the Men at Arms of the city march up to the monastery in a spear/halberd formation, with armour. They face monks, mostly armed with daggers. Should be a very quick massacre, especially since they also have Belmont and Belnades.

Except... just seconds later, most of the Men at Arms don't have polearms anymore, they have swords. As do the monks.

[druid91]

Binged the last 7 episodes. I have to say that I was disappointed, not because it was bad but because it wasn't what I was hoping for. I recognise that there is a difference between the two things.

As has been pointed out, Season 3 is a lot of setup for Season 4, which is always a very brave move - let's say that fans don't get the 'long term plan' for the show and think that Season 3 is just a bit dull, so the show is cancelled - Castlevania is forever remembered as being the show that had a boring last season, which isn't strictly true and I'm sure there are examples in other shows to whom exactly that happened.

The problem I have is that the main characters all go through an arc and basically go right back to where they started in some recognisable fashion, just in different physical locations and having killed a whole bunch of secondary characters that we hadn't met before and really didn't care about.

I really like the dynamic between Sypher and Trevor, who is fast becoming one of my favourite heroes across many forms of media. Together they have a great dynamic, I enjoy the choreography that goes into their different fighting styles, and I never feel that what they're doing is dull. They just don't achieve anything in series 3, though; they come into a random town, spend a long time arguing with mad monks, then go and fight a big monster at the end when everyone is already dead.
The monster has no name, no voice, no goals or motivations other than "do monstery stuff" - I wouldn't call it a "token" fight scene to end the show with some action because I enjoyed the action a lot, but it could have been just some Monster Of The Week and it left me wanting something more... significant? It's a very good example of how insignificant the life of an adventurer really is, compared to the machinations of warlords and powerful wizards, but I'm not sure that's the lesson I should be taking away from a show about the heir to the Belmont family, of all things.
Either way, over 10 episodes Trevor and Sypher end up back on the road having earned nothing or really learnt anything, except now Sypher is sad and Trevor is jaded again. This could have been condensed by quite a bit, I feel.

I grew to like Isaac a lot more during this season. He explored his motivations and heard some differing opinions and I'm really interested in seeing what he chooses to do next, because at the minute he *technically* opposes the vampires but only insofar as they have something he wants. Even so, he ends the series very similar to how he began - alone with just his monsters, wandering a strange place and looking for a way to bring back Dracula while deciding if he should kill everyone first or do it later. Again, it could have been condensed and we could have ended the season on a more substantial note where the various factions are actually ready to start their campaigns, not just on the verge of beginning to prepare for them.

I like Hector. He's a more-or-less sympathetic character and not the monster that his profession might suggest, but goddamn it I was hoping for some growth! Having been manipulated by a vampire and betrayed, he ends the season by... being betrayed by another vampire who manipulated him. Inside I was screaming how little it takes to gain his trust and how little he has learned while literally standing there with a leash around his neck.
I realise that I am probably projecting - I *want* Hector to unleash what he can do, because he's the quietest of the characters so far and it would be so cathartic to see him tear everything down. The show, however, makes him look stupidly gullible and his suffering is bordering on self-inflicted. Of all the plots, his is the one I want to see more of, if only to hear him justify why he is like he is and what he's going to do about it. Meanwhile it's just slightly infuriating.

Alucard is... tricky. On the one hand, I get what the writers were trying to portray - that he is lonely and craves company, but if he lets down his guard then the world itself will suffer as others plunder his father's knowledge. That he realises this and becomes more jaded like his father - he even points out at the very end what he's doing is what Dracula did - is logical character progression. On the other, it just takes forever and by the end of it he hasn't interacted with anyone or done anything beyond exist and grow slightly more callous. Again, I think it needed condensing and to push him into a position of doing or achieving something of significance at the end of the season, because at present he's so utterly remote from the rest of the plot and characters that he might as well not exist. If anything, I wanted to see more of him talking to his dolls of Sypher and Trevor, so that we could see that he had even SOME connection to them, vague as it might be.

Oh yes, and I also didn't like the overlapping of the sex/fight scenes in the penultimate episode. I get what they writers were going for - various puns on the word 'climax' will be involved somewhere, I'm sure - and I get the importance of showing the converging events that define the characters' efforts in the season so far.
Yet, there were 4 different plots all going on at the same time, two of which big pitched battles with very beautiful imagery and very intricate direction, and I think I would have preferred them to take place at different times - it would have been easier to watch without the sudden 4-way cuts, and each were impressive enough that they deserved some time being dedicated to them alone and sharing screen-time did slightly spoil the overall effect.

I liked it. I am glad that I watched it, and I enjoyed the studies of the different characters, their motivations and I will definitely enjoy speculating on where they're going to go with it next. I really wish that more time had been spent on character achieving some goals and arriving at a cliffhanger before they engaged in conflict, because right now everyone is still far away from direct conflict and that makes me feel less confident about the beginning of season 4; I feel like it will start with more manoeuvring and more exposition, when what I want is pacing more like Season 1 where we get into the meat of the story quickly and have milestone events to keep piquing my interest every so often rather than save it all up for the end.

I feel like, in large part the Night Creature trying, and nearly succeeding, at resurrecting Dracula was supposed to be sort of foreshadowing. If ONE night creature did that, what could Isaac achieve with his army? And so, it's a setup to show that Isaac really could realistically resurrect Dracula.

And thinking about it. Isaac pulls his Night creatures from Hell. And intends to empty it entirely, so the chances of him raising the Judge, or Priory head cult guy are fairly good.

[Ramza00]

I will write more later, but here is a short quippy answer about Hector, responding to Wraith.




I like Hector. He's a more-or-less sympathetic character and not the monster that his profession might suggest, but goddamn it I was hoping for some growth! Having been manipulated by a vampire and betrayed, he ends the season by... being betrayed by another vampire who manipulated him. Inside I was screaming how little it takes to gain his trust and how little he has learned while literally standing there with a leash around his neck.
I realise that I am probably projecting - I *want* Hector to unleash what he can do, because he's the quietest of the characters so far and it would be so cathartic to see him tear everything down. The show, however, makes him look stupidly gullible and his suffering is bordering on self-inflicted. Of all the plots, his is the one I want to see more of, if only to hear him justify why he is like he is and what he's going to do about it. Meanwhile it's just slightly infuriating.
Hector's core desire, the one underneath everything is he is allowed to take up space, and the space he takes up mattered, and he created a positive difference.

Hector hates conflict, but he longs to hear your presence matters. Note this desire is so fundamental, so raw, and so basic he is not aware of it for it is layered under many layers of defenses like a suit of armor, or like an onion has layers ... layered on top of the core. Put another way see Hector as a person who thinks he is Luke Skywalker.

I can write more later, but this is a short reply. Pretty much Hector is never going to get what he wants with his vampire friend group, for his core desire is not compatible around toxic people. Around non-toxic people people can validate him, but also create requests of Hector can you help me with this for it will make the world a better place. Thus to be Hector is to suffer in Castlevania.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Overall, I quite liked this season, it wasn't as action packed as the first two but that's not a bad thing. It could stand to take some time to build up to a truly epic confrontation further down the line because after the first season, I felt the second one really rushed the whole 'we're going to kill Dracula!' plot point to leave the show with a trio of undeveloped villains.

Now? Now there have some development! Issac I went from being ambivalent about to quite enjoying as both a badass and a character, Carmilla's council of vampires got some development that gave more depth to Carmilla herself (and Lenore is great in general), and Hector can go die in a fire for being a stupid prat. But hey, at least the dumb prat has something smarter looking out for him!

I do feel as if the reveal with the Judge wasn't necessary, it was a dark moment sure but..it didn't really serve a purpose that the mad monks themselves didn't already. More importantly, I think they detracted from the story being told by turning the Judge's story about like that.

That said..I quite enjoyed the monks themselves and their entire plot line.

Just about the only story I didn't fancy was Alucard's...largely because it was drawn out over the course of an entire season. If it had just been a one and done (which it easily could have been) I think I would have enjoyed it more. Also the earlier fights didn't feel as..smooth as in the other seasons, noticeably so, but it looks like they had been saving up for the fights in episode 8 onward so I can't really complain considering how good they were.

[Spacewolf]

I seems like the seasons are planned to be split across two seasons each.

But yea Alucard story line was ok but took to long to get to the point. Judge was obviously abit evil but it didn't serve the story by having him actually be evil in that way. Issacs story was actually just good and drove the story forward. Camillas castle storyline was pretty good as well, Camilla has clearly fallen into not as smart as she thinks territory.

The visitor was a cool monster although Belmont and Cypher seem to have gotten weaker since they fought Vlad, unless demons are supposed to be generally stronger than normal nightspawn.

I do wonder if Vlad is going to come back at the end of this series since Issacs apparently has monsters all over trying to bring him back. I'd actually like Vlad to come back save Issacs from getting killed at the last second and Vlad, his wife and Issacs all go off into the sunset if this season is the last.

[Olinser]

I seems like the seasons are planned to be split across two seasons each.

But yea Alucard story line was ok but took to long to get to the point. Judge was obviously abit evil but it didn't serve the story by having him actually be evil in that way. Issacs story was actually just good and drove the story forward. Camillas castle storyline was pretty good as well, Camilla has clearly fallen into not as smart as she thinks territory.

The visitor was a cool monster although Belmont and Cypher seem to have gotten weaker since they fought Vlad, unless demons are supposed to be generally stronger than normal nightspawn.

I do wonder if Vlad is going to come back at the end of this series since Issacs apparently has monsters all over trying to bring him back. I'd actually like Vlad to come back save Issacs from getting killed at the last second and Vlad, his wife and Issacs all go off into the sunset if this season is the last.

Disagree on the ending.

TBH I don't think Dracula DESERVES a happy ending. Lisa does, but he doesn't. He's a completely unrepentant mass murdering monster that doesn't care about any human not named Lisa. While she was alive he acted better not because he actually cared, but because SHE wanted him to.

What I'd like to THINK they're working themselves up to doing, is having Alucard mirror Dracula's path.

This season was a significant blow to his normally idealistic view of humans.

I think they're working themselves up to resurrecting Dracula, having Alucard join him this time, then introducing Maria as a parallel to Lisa to snap Alucard back to humanity's side, leading to a final confrontation between Alucard and Dracula a la Symphony of the Night. Isaac is a great parallel for Shaft from that game as well.

[Eldan]

Judge was obviously abit evil but it didn't serve the story by having him actually be evil in that wa


Yeaaah... I actually started coming around a bit on the judge after a while. I mean, when he first came on screen, I was all "Oh hello, evil authority figure", but then I started to think "maybe they aren't actually going there and he's just coldly competent like a budget Vetinari", which I would have preferred. And then of course, he had to send a little kid out to the forbidden apple tree.


The visitor was a cool monster

Eh? A cool looking monster, but it didn't do enough for my taste. I'd love to have at least seen it speak to the monks before it unleased the giant ritual of firey souls. Hear it corrupt people.

[Rakaydos]

Yeaaah... I actually started coming around a bit on the judge after a while. I mean, when he first came on screen, I was all "Oh hello, evil authority figure", but then I started to think "maybe they aren't actually going there and he's just coldly competent like a budget Vetinari", which I would have preferred. And then of course, he had to send a little kid out to the forbidden apple tree.



Eh? A cool looking monster, but it didn't do enough for my taste. I'd love to have at least seen it speak to the monks before it unleased the giant ritual of firey souls. Hear it corrupt people.

Sometimes a lawful evil authority figure, is the lesser of the evils you have to deal with.

[DigoDragon]

I'm going to mirror Callos_DeTerran's post. Season three was pretty good. Not season two good, but hey, it is rather hard to top killing Dracula in an epic battle.

Sypha and Trevor's bantering was fun.


Judge man... why you did that?!

[Anyr]

I do feel as if the reveal with the Judge wasn't necessary, it was a dark moment sure but..it didn't really serve a purpose that the mad monks themselves didn't already. More importantly, I think they detracted from the story being told by turning the Judge's story about like that.

I think its purpose was to reinforce a theme of this season: The dilemma of whether to trust a stranger. Trevor, Sypha, Isaac, Alucard and Hector are all confronted by it. They live in a cruel world. Everyone is a potential enemy. When someone extends a hand of friendship, does their other hand conceal a dagger? Is the risk worth taking? In this season, all the main characters choose to trust; And all but one of them get betrayed. The Judge was a power hungry serial killer. The apprentices were awaiting their chance to strike. Lenore was just as terrible as her sisters.

Ironically, Isaac is the only exception. He keeps expecting deception from humanity. But everyone he meets has honest intentions: Whether as friend or foe. The shopkeeper, captain and old woman all keep their word to him. The guards and wizard are straightforwardly open in their hostility. I enjoyed that.

[Ramza00]

I think its purpose was to reinforce a theme of this season: The dilemma of whether to trust a stranger. Trevor, Sypha, Isaac, Alucard and Hector are all confronted by it. They live in a cruel world. Everyone is a potential enemy. When someone extends a hand of friendship, does their other hand conceal a dagger? Is the risk worth taking? In this season, all the main characters choose to trust; And all but one of them get betrayed. The Judge was a power hungry serial killer. The apprentices were awaiting their chance to strike. Lenore was just as terrible as her sisters.

Ironically, Isaac is the only exception. He keeps expecting deception from humanity. But everyone he meets has honest intentions: Whether as friend or foe. The shopkeeper, captain and old woman all keep their word to him. The guards and wizard are straightforwardly open in their hostility. I enjoyed that.

Agrees and let circle it back to the Season 1 and Season 2 themes of Superstition. English Superstition comes from Latin "superstō +‎ -tiō", superstō means 1) I stand upon, 2) I stand over, 3) I survive and the tiō suffix modifes the root so A) "the result of (a verb) or B) "the action of (a verb)." Put another way the tiō / tion is the "consequence" and the result of the choice made with the prefix, cause and effect.

All of these decisions in Season 1, Season 2, Season 3 whether you trust or not. And Season 3 introduces the idea of a golden mean where you need to trust but also to be skeptical at the same time. Castlevania's Lisa / Risa wanted to teach the people the true sciences so they will be less superstitious and thus they will live better lives and longer lives. The Speakers and one of the 3 protagonists Sypha think it is culture, language, stories that are actively practiced and shared that will drive out Superstition.

How do you handle the Stranger? What do you Stand upon during uncertainty? That is the nature of the questions Castlevania is exploring. After all the Priests and the Bishops thought they could banish the stranger by burning them and via doing so you can make the world pure again. Is this any different than Issac or Dracula? Are they not just mirror images of each other?

The only difference I see is why they want to Banish the Stranger.


Dracula is Immortal and thus does not need to fear his mortal life from a Stranger, instead only fearing pain and loss, things that attack ones heart / soul and leaves indelible marks. Dracula does not fear like everyone else, he may grieve, he may have hot anger, but it is different.
Issac does not care if he lives or dies for he has only faced a life of pain before becoming a forgemaster. He is fine with dying, only living to be a zealot and create a better world and to remove the people in this world that will prevent it.
Bishop / Priests / Various other People such as Villagers. These people are mortal and when they are afraid they want to banish or slay the stranger. It is not methodical, it is not precise, instead it is emotional like fear unleashed. Mob violence, running directly in front of a person and stabbing them if Trevor Belmont scapegoats them (sure it was a valid point, but how that person died was not a duel or a trial but instead an emotional afraid person running up and stabbing them.)


Lastly there is a 4th person who is different than those above 3 who want to eliminate specific humans or humanity and that is Carmella and the 4 Women Vampire coven. They are crafty, they are schemers, they want a sense of control over the stranger. By restricting the options of others the stranger is no longer scarry of something to be afraid of.

[Spacewolf]

Disagree on the ending.

TBH I don't think Dracula DESERVES a happy ending. Lisa does, but he doesn't. He's a completely unrepentant mass murdering monster that doesn't care about any human not named Lisa. While she was alive he acted better not because he actually cared, but because SHE wanted him to.

What I'd like to THINK they're working themselves up to doing, is having Alucard mirror Dracula's path.

This season was a significant blow to his normally idealistic view of humans.

I think they're working themselves up to resurrecting Dracula, having Alucard join him this time, then introducing Maria as a parallel to Lisa to snap Alucard back to humanity's side, leading to a final confrontation between Alucard and Dracula a la Symphony of the Night. Isaac is a great parallel for Shaft from that game as well.

By off into the sunset I don't mean it as an unambiguously happy ending but more of a continuation of Draculas wanderings of the world. With the implication being Humanity gets a new chance to prove itself but potentially getting destroyed if they fail.

[LaZodiac]

Just finished the season with my girlfriend. Basically incredible, I loved it. Love how it's setting up for things, excited to see how it goes from here.

Still following the theory that Isaac is going to become Death at some point. If he manages to ressurect Dracula next season it's important to note that the ritual says it combines two souls, so he'll probably be bringing Dracula AND Lisa back, and this fusion (plus his Forgemaster powers) will make Dracula... come back wrong, and with his classic demon-y form. I'm still kinda hessitant to bring back Drac because of how powerful his ending actually WAS, so bringing him back as some horrid monster mixture of him and his wife so as to ensure Vlad, the character, is dead but Dracula, the monster, remains, would be a good idea.

Hector's adventure in becoming a dog was great fun, I love the banter of Carmilla and her friends. They're all horribly great and super excited to do her nonsense scheme with a scheme of their own. Gonna be a little sad to see it all crumble down save for Carmilla herself and then wait a thousand years for COTM to roll around so the slowest boy in the world can power-walk her to death. Also looking forward to Hector getting liberated so we can set up for his confrontation with Isaac, assuming they go that route (which given Germain and the Infinite Corridor, they probably will). I'm also looking forward to more of everyone's favorite time bastard.

Trevor and Sypha's part was fantastic, this somber adventure full of excitement and wonder right up until the rug gets pulled out from under Sypha and she's forced to see that sometimes, you're not the hero fighting against the age ole super vampire to save the world. Sometimes you step in **** and have to deal with the mess. I don't necessarily like this part of it, you could have had it still turn out this way with the Judge being good and it'd still hit the same, and that's a flaw. That said, Trevor's final words of "now we're living my world" is... stark and powerful, in a lot of ways, and I look forward to the recovery the two will go through to get from this. Not that this is advised in real life, but maybe kids will help her out...

And Alucard... I can't actually discuss Alucard because it's just one wordless, mournful cry. My poor poor baby. Alucard no. I'm so sorry this happened to you. That was actually kinda genuinely disturbing and really sad. ****. Poor Alucard. (exaggerations aside I feel like this bit could have been improved a touch. Better build up to The Thing That Happens, a bit faster paced, but it was emotionally effective still, especially the ending).

Only other thing I have to say about this is; WHERE GRANT? GIVE GRANT?! CAN HAVE... GRANT?

[druid91]

Just finished the season with my girlfriend. Basically incredible, I loved it. Love how it's setting up for things, excited to see how it goes from here.

Still following the theory that Isaac is going to become Death at some point. If he manages to ressurect Dracula next season it's important to note that the ritual says it combines two souls, so he'll probably be bringing Dracula AND Lisa back, and this fusion (plus his Forgemaster powers) will make Dracula... come back wrong, and with his classic demon-y form. I'm still kinda hessitant to bring back Drac because of how powerful his ending actually WAS, so bringing him back as some horrid monster mixture of him and his wife so as to ensure Vlad, the character, is dead but Dracula, the monster, remains, would be a good idea.

Hector's adventure in becoming a dog was great fun, I love the banter of Carmilla and her friends. They're all horribly great and super excited to do her nonsense scheme with a scheme of their own. Gonna be a little sad to see it all crumble down save for Carmilla herself and then wait a thousand years for COTM to roll around so the slowest boy in the world can power-walk her to death. Also looking forward to Hector getting liberated so we can set up for his confrontation with Isaac, assuming they go that route (which given Germain and the Infinite Corridor, they probably will). I'm also looking forward to more of everyone's favorite time bastard.

Trevor and Sypha's part was fantastic, this somber adventure full of excitement and wonder right up until the rug gets pulled out from under Sypha and she's forced to see that sometimes, you're not the hero fighting against the age ole super vampire to save the world. Sometimes you step in **** and have to deal with the mess. I don't necessarily like this part of it, you could have had it still turn out this way with the Judge being good and it'd still hit the same, and that's a flaw. That said, Trevor's final words of "now we're living my world" is... stark and powerful, in a lot of ways, and I look forward to the recovery the two will go through to get from this. Not that this is advised in real life, but maybe kids will help her out...

And Alucard... I can't actually discuss Alucard because it's just one wordless, mournful cry. My poor poor baby. Alucard no. I'm so sorry this happened to you. That was actually kinda genuinely disturbing and really sad. ****. Poor Alucard. (exaggerations aside I feel like this bit could have been improved a touch. Better build up to The Thing That Happens, a bit faster paced, but it was emotionally effective still, especially the ending).

Only other thing I have to say about this is; WHERE GRANT? GIVE GRANT?! CAN HAVE... GRANT?

He's mentioned in the beginning. Pirate of the Roads.

[LaZodiac]

He's mentioned in the beginning. Pirate of the Roads.

I don't think that's Grant but I hope it's Grant.

[BisectedBrioche]

So, crackpot theory time: Season 4 will be Symphony of the Night and the one with Hector and Isaac at the same time:

St. Germain and The Infinite Corridor (which sounds like a Harry Potter spinoff, incidentally) means that Time Travel can be a thing. Which would allow the events of SOTN to take place in the future, while still keeping all of the S1 and 2 cast relevant (and let the plot threads intersect a bit).
Alucard's good and disillusioned with humanity, but in a way that hasn't put him on bad terms with Team Belmont, which is basically where he was when he decided to take a nap before SOTN (which, in the good ending, had him reconnect with humanity and become the person who stealth mentored Soma). It could be that he winds up travelling to the future rather than waiting around in a coffin to get there the slow way.
SOTN had allusions to the events of III (such as Alucard fighting zombie versions of the rest of Team Belmont).
Hector and Lenore's relationship right now is clearly eff'd up, but Hector could easily have enough Stokholm syndrome to avenge her if Isaac leads a revolt against the castle and puts an end to her nonsense (for his own ends). Avenging her was basically the conflict Hector and Isaac had in the game itself.
Hector fought both Germain and Trevor as bosses.

[LaZodiac]

So, crackpot theory time: Season 4 will be Symphony of the Night and the one with Hector and Isaac at the same time:

St. Germain and The Infinite Corridor (which sounds like a Harry Potter spinoff, incidentally) means that Time Travel can be a thing. Which would allow the events of SOTN to take place in the future, while still keeping all of the S1 and 2 cast relevant (and let the plot threads intersect a bit).
Alucard's good and disillusioned with humanity, but in a way that hasn't put him on bad terms with Team Belmont, which is basically where he was when he decided to take a nap before SOTN (which, in the good ending, had him reconnect with humanity and become the person who stealth mentored Soma). It could be that he winds up travelling to the future rather than waiting around in a coffin to get there the slow way.
SOTN had allusions to the events of III (such as Alucard fighting zombie versions of the rest of Team Belmont).
Hector and Lenore's relationship right now is clearly eff'd up, but Hector could easily have enough Stokholm syndrome to avenge her if Isaac leads a revolt against the castle and puts an end to her nonsense (for his own ends). Avenging her was basically the conflict Hector and Isaac had in the game itself.
Hector fought both Germain and Trevor as bosses.


Well, like Alucard said. He has completely lost track of time. For all we know he is in the future right now. We know that at least a couple seasons have passed due to the environment, whereas it's more static for everyone else?

Also did everyone just forget Hector's wife and savior is called Rosaly and not Lenore? Lenore is not his love and I fully suspect Rosaly to be made a bit more badass (and probably a good aligned witch of the church) who'll save him.

That being said I quite like your theory. My only issue would be how one would actually plot it...

[DigoDragon]

Ironically, Isaac is the only exception. He keeps expecting deception from humanity. But everyone he meets has honest intentions: Whether as friend or foe. The shopkeeper, captain and old woman all keep their word to him. The guards and wizard are straightforwardly open in their hostility. I enjoyed that.

At least St. Germain got his happy ending. He chose his strangers wisely. I think. ^^;



He's mentioned in the beginning. Pirate of the Roads.

I was hoping to see an encounter with him. Maybe next season? It just sounds too crazy to not have happen.

[khadgar567]

well season 4 is kinda already set in stone for the isaac hector fight and all that entails in respective game but around the time i say belmond duo gonna be settling in close by to alucards home and next generation belmont gonna be born though the ending of isaac hector fight kinda be the last recurring element for long term plots continuation. we kinda still have couple more items of importance for story to continue as the whip of alchemy and dark pain kinda still waits to be introduced and i think alucard's sword still dont named which means alucard gonna change weapons few times until series can be end for good.

[Kid Jake]

Is it just me or is it silly how everybody just keeps crapping on Hector?

It doesn't matter what safeguards you've got in place, constantly pissing off the single most important cog in your grand plan for no other reason than the 'lulz' just seems idiotic. Especially since he's so easy to manipulate that a simple pat on the back every few months; keeping bad influences away from him and just not taking time out of your day to torture him seems to be enough to earn his loyalty.

I know they're supposed to evil; but it's like they just want to be betrayed by an endless horde of hell monsters at an inopportune moment.

[Olinser]

Is it just me or is it silly how everybody just keeps crapping on Hector?

It doesn't matter what safeguards you've got in place, constantly pissing off the single most important cog in your grand plan for no other reason than the 'lulz' just seems idiotic. Especially since he's so easy to manipulate that a simple pat on the back every few months; keeping bad influences away from him and just not taking time out of your day to torture him seems to be enough to earn his loyalty.

I know they're supposed to evil; but it's like they just want to be betrayed by an endless horde of hell monsters at an inopportune moment.

I actually feel like that's the POINT of this.

The vampires all act like they're so superior and smarter and stronger. Yet we are consistently shown that they are not only not smarter, they're SHOCKINGLY stupid. They can't see beyond their petty desires and impulses to do anything meaningful with their power and longevity.

Many of them are hundreds, even thousands of years old. The ONLY one that has done anything special is Dracula. He has chemistry, electricity, advanced mechanical constructions, and a freaking teleporting castle. It's functionally the dark ages and his wife has a freaking electric CENTRIFUGE (something that wasn't invented until the mid-19th century here).

THE ONLY one with any kind of vision was Dracula. The ONLY ONE that was able to make them a cohesive force was Dracula. And yet every single vampire went along with his plan to exterminate the humans. Literally the only one that actually voiced concerns about Dracula's end goal was the self-admitted moron Godbrand.

Despite the fact that they all knew of them, none of the vampires ever thought to band together and get rid of the Belmonts, despite, as Carmilla put it, 'hunting them for ****ing centuries'. The Belmont clan fell not because monsters finally got their act together and did it but because they were so good at getting rid of them that humanity didn't see the need to keep them around anymore.

That seems to be the theme of the show. Evil is powerful and ambitious, but also stupid, petty, backstabbing, shortsighted, and incapable of executing any kind of actual long-term plan. If they actually got their act together humanity would be doomed. But they can't get their act together. They can't stop themselves from indulging in petty cruelty that is not only not useful, but actively hurts their alleged plans. Carmilla and her gurl gang, despite their BS about being better than males, can't help themselves from indulging in pointless torture of a human that is the single most essential component of their alleged plan.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Is it just me or is it silly how everybody just keeps crapping on Hector?

It doesn't matter what safeguards you've got in place, constantly pissing off the single most important cog in your grand plan for no other reason than the 'lulz' just seems idiotic. Especially since he's so easy to manipulate that a simple pat on the back every few months; keeping bad influences away from him and just not taking time out of your day to torture him seems to be enough to earn his loyalty.

I know they're supposed to evil; but it's like they just want to be betrayed by an endless horde of hell monsters at an inopportune moment.

Its worth pointing out that Hector is actually getting pretty much exactly what he thought he was going to get from Dracula and what he told Lenore he thought his reward was going to be.

He's just realizing that this is not something it was cracked up to be because he's a stupid prat. And unless he figures out how to get that ring off, he's not going to be betraying anyone with a horde of hell monsters, he's going to keep living his life like how he thought he was going to end up after Dracula's xenocide.

Cause again, Hector is an idiot and at this point actively courts people to exploit him. Cause right now, he's not even the most important cog anymore, he's just a useful one.

[Kid Jake]

Its worth pointing out that Hector is actually getting pretty much exactly what he thought he was going to get from Dracula and what he told Lenore he thought his reward was going to be.

He's just realizing that this is not something it was cracked up to be because he's a stupid prat. And unless he figures out how to get that ring off, he's not going to be betraying anyone with a horde of hell monsters, he's going to keep living his life like how he thought he was going to end up after Dracula's xenocide.

Cause again, Hector is an idiot and at this point actively courts people to exploit him. Cause right now, he's not even the most important cog anymore, he's just a useful one.


Exactly though, they're giving him exactly what he wants at literally no cost to themselves. If they'd stop poking him in the eye whispering "What'choo gonna do about it?" they wouldn't need the safeguards at all. I mean removing the ring might be painful but at a certain point it's going be worth it to just lop off the finger, or even the whole damned hand, just to see the look on their faces as your monster legion tears their castle down around their ears in the middle of the day.

Also, I'm not convinced that they've replaced him in the plan. Mercenaries might could do the job they want, but nowhere near as effectively and the sort willing to help enslave humanity as livestock are going to be both expensive and opportunistic; neither of which make for good long term minions.



I actually feel like that's the POINT of this.

SNIP



This actually makes a lot of sense and I hope it all is intentional.

I can actually hear Godbrand's voice scoffing "I'm the only one here smart enough to realize he's an idiot."

[Eldan]

I mean removing the ring might be painful but at a certain point it's going be worth it to just lop off the finger, or even the whole damned hand, just to see the look on their faces as your monster legion tears their castle down around their ears in the middle of the day

Exactly what I thought when I saw the ring. Actually, I'm taking bets this is going to happen at some point.

[Ramza00]

Is it just me or is it silly how everybody just keeps crapping on Hector?

It doesn't matter what safeguards you've got in place, constantly pissing off the single most important cog in your grand plan for no other reason than the 'lulz' just seems idiotic. Especially since he's so easy to manipulate that a simple pat on the back every few months; keeping bad influences away from him and just not taking time out of your day to torture him seems to be enough to earn his loyalty.

I know they're supposed to evil; but it's like they just want to be betrayed by an endless horde of hell monsters at an inopportune moment.

Yes it is not rational but it is entirely human, and the human instinct of people who rule by force. Such people take great delight in the power to dominate and the fear of being dominated themselves. These dual instincts (actually opposing sides of the same instinct) often lead to irrational ends, non steady state ends where you are trying to control the impossible to control. It works until it suddenly it does not. It is foreseeable if you mediate and think in a Promethean matter of thought.

———

Evil / Wickedness is often not rational, it must be tempered, one must realize ones limits or it destroys itself by creating the seeds of its own destruction. People rise up and slay Evil / Wickedness for they do not feel safe in said relationship. Yet this whole mindset, the mindset of temperance is antithetical to a domination mindset. Virtue / Virtu / Golden Mean is alien to feeling absolute control and absolute power, the rush one gets in domination, you can not do both at once, one can only feel said feelings in comparison between different moments of time inside ones mind.

———

A reminder Carmella hates pets for they remind her of her younger years where an Old Man Vampire Turned Her and kept her as a pet. Lenore instead adopts strays and delights in the dominating act of controlling them. Regardless these two both see the world through the same framework even if they have different opinions on how to operate said framework. One wants Humanity to be Cattle, the other as Pets.

[LaZodiac]

I feel like it's worth noting that Godbrand was the first vampire who realized what Dracula was really up to. And that he's a viking. In THIS time period.

He may seem stupid. He may even BE stupid. But he's actually pretty damn smart. He just confronted the wrong dog.

[Olinser]

I feel like it's worth noting that Godbrand was the first vampire who realized what Dracula was really up to. And that he's a viking. In THIS time period.

He may seem stupid. He may even BE stupid. But he's actually pretty damn smart. He just confronted the wrong dog.

He's not smart. He's a moron, he admits it himself.

He's also very SAVVY. He's a moron with common sense who understands his own limitations and that lets him recognize things that others either refuse to see, or are too arrogant to even think about.

His savvy meant he instinctively grasped that Dracula's plan was crazy and that Dracula was much weaker than normal because he wasn't drinking blood.

And that coupled with his lack of intelligence also got him killed because he was too dumb to keep that intuition to himself.

[LaZodiac]

He's not smart. He's a moron, he admits it himself.

He's also very SAVVY. He's a moron with common sense who understands his own limitations and that lets him recognize things that others either refuse to see, or are too arrogant to even think about.

His savvy meant he instinctively grasped that Dracula's plan was crazy and that Dracula was much weaker than normal because he wasn't drinking blood.

And that coupled with his lack of intelligence also got him killed because he was too dumb to keep that intuition to himself.

I don't know but aside from the fact that he spoke to Isaac instead of Hector, this all seems pretty smart to me. Ultimately it's just semantics.

[Kid Jake]

The difference between dumping Intelligence and Wisdom.

[Rakaydos]

...I just made the connection between godbrand and the viking undead creatures, Dragur or whatever.

[Olinser]

The difference between dumping Intelligence and Wisdom.

That's probably the best description.

Intelligence was Godbrand's dump stat, but he has high Wisdom and reasonable Charisma. None of the others were willing to participate in Carmilla's scheme (despite her being obviously much more intelligent), but Godbrand was the one that convinced them to go out and throw a slaughter party contrary to Dracula's explicit orders.

[druid91]

The difference between dumping Intelligence and Wisdom.

I think it's less that and more a matter of culture and education. Godbrand is a viking.

He knows fighting, raiding, and war. Does he know how to prosecute an entirely landlocked campaign? probably not. But he's familiar with the general shape of war.

Now let's compare that to the only two other Vampires we really have much backstory on besides Dracula himself.

Carmilla, not all that much brighter than Godbrand himself, only where Godbrand's education focused on fighting, Carmilla's is scheming and socializing. By the time she even came onto the scene, she could piggyback off of Godbrand's realization that something wasn't up, and from there was entirely driven by her seeming distaste for men.

And the Japanese Vampire, who from what we can tell more or less sat in the mountains for centuries playing at being a boogieman. Boogie-woman. No real education or goals, just.... basically the ancient sadistic vampire version of being an eccentric hermit.

As for why he spouted off his mouth to Isaac, he couldn't seem to comprehend the idea that Isaac could hate all of humanity. Sign on with Dracula to wreck some people he doesn't know a world away from his home? Sure. But try to wipe them all off the face of the earth? From the start it's apparent that Godbrand thinks they still have sympathies with humanity.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Exactly though, they're giving him exactly what he wants at literally no cost to themselves. If they'd stop poking him in the eye whispering "What'choo gonna do about it?" they wouldn't need the safeguards at all. I mean removing the ring might be painful but at a certain point it's going be worth it to just lop off the finger, or even the whole damned hand, just to see the look on their faces as your monster legion tears their castle down around their ears in the middle of the day.

Also, I'm not convinced that they've replaced him in the plan. Mercenaries might could do the job they want, but nowhere near as effectively and the sort willing to help enslave humanity as livestock are going to be both expensive and opportunistic; neither of which make for good long term minions.

Except that would be stupid because, as Carmilla knows well, that's just asking for Hector to grow a brain eventually or start thinking on his own. And if the safeguard is already on, there's really no reason for them not to have their fun with him however it may be. The point remains though that Lenore, by the end of the season, is NOT treating Hector poorly and stands up for him to the rest of her cadre, she just doesn't view him as an independent person either. And if that ring is as easy to circumvent as just lopping off the finger, that is a truly awful safeguard. Like legitimately they'd have been better off with pretty much any other safeguard. So I'm betting that if Hector does get rebellious, he can't jsut remove his finger to be free of it. Hell, he might not be ABLE to remove his finger.

And the other two vampires were convinced they could accomplish Carmilla's mad scheme with the mercenaries when they were positively certain that Lenore was going to fail. Hector is, obviously, the more efficient choice and definitely makes the plan better, but they wouldn't have mentioned the mercenaries and such without a reason and I believe its to tell the viewer that even if Issac wasn't coming for Hector, the daft fool will have a lot of other problems on his hands if he tries rebellion. Problems with pointy metal sticks.

[LaZodiac]

...I just made the connection between godbrand and the viking undead creatures, Dragur or whatever.

Somewhat ironically, Godbrand was probably right about knowing if water would kill him or not.

also, regarding the mercenaries Striga and Morana hired; not only are they a good fighting force, any that die get shipped off to Hector now that he IS their loyal demon making machine. It's a double success! Exactly as Carmilla planned. Which she will gladly take almost all the credit for while her friends roll their eyes but accept it because aaah, that's just Carmilla for you. Crazy weirdo.

I really like the new vampire characters. Dracula is all well and cool but Castlevania the game series has really only had ONE other vampire (and he is also really cool) so it's nice to see all these good good vampire friends.

[Ramza00]

Godbrand is both high Int and low Int simultaneously in the D&D context. Godbrand problem is theory of mind issues, but he was actually quite intelligent and savvy at solving for problems with the goals he understood, the values he understood, the rewards he understood, etc.

Godbrand problem is he is not intelligent or savvy to things he did not understand (theory of mind issues), and thus he lacked the skills set to play a game of "masquerade" where one must be duplicitous and not duplicitous where one feels each other out. Godbrand is both high int and low int in the D&D sense for D&D is reductive in how it describes Int, Wis, Cha to single numbers.

-----

Note for everything that Godbrand had problems with Dracula excelled. Dracula naturally understood people had different motivations, goals, point of view on how one sees the world. This allowed Dracula to lie to each of his 7 generals and his 2 forgemasters, weaving a different lie for each of them of what the goals are.

Dracula just found those things tiring by year 1 of his revenge, but he was not instantly drained using those same skill set in year 0 of his revenge when he was preparing for his goal. Pretty much Dracula feel into a deep depression due to the trauma he experienced.

[Velaryon]

Finished the season yesterday. I liked it, but didn't love it. Really feels like this season is the fallout from last season and realignment before the next big story arc.

Best part for me is Trevor & Sypha's story. Everything about that is good with me.

Isaac's story feels disconnected to everything else going on, like he's halfway to being in a completely different series at this point. He got some nice development but really needs to be woven back into the same story as the other characters.

Hector/Carmilla/etc. is interesting, but a mixed bag. I like Lenore, don't care about Striga or the other one, and Carmilla felt seriously diminished as a character this season. I'm interested to see how this plays out, but I have some reservations.

Alucard's story was a complete waste, as far as I'm concerned. Would have been better to leave him out entirely if this is all they could come up with for him.

[Kato]

I'm fine with the season. Of course there were faults with it but I don't regret watching it.

Alucard's arc was probably the weakest, mostly because it had no point unless it's a first step for him turning evil. But also I feel like the siblings could have been done better. They were not terrible but there was definitely room for improvement.

Sypha (I'll never get used to that spelling) and Trevor's was most fun. Mostly because the two joke around even in life threatening situations. I wish it felt more impactful than a random demon trying to ressurect Vlad and I didn't care too much for Germain but overall it was what I usually enjoy.

Hector's new home was fine, too. It was pretty clear how it would end and I give 9 to 1 odds he'll get his revenge in the end but we'll see. It was much more the sisters' arc than his.
I was somewhat expecting Lenore to betray her sisters and enslave them, too, but I guess not.

Hector's arc... Didn't really have anything amazing in it but I enjoyed him making the journey / experiences anyway. I wish we'd seen more growth and not just short and rather shallow 'debates' but it wasn't bad.
But Captain, if you steal from Pratchett, steal properly! (and I'm sure someone will tell me Pratchett isn't the only one to use such a phrasing but I don't care :smalltongue: )


So yeah, maybe they could have made some cuts and changes but I enjoyed it.

[Ramza00]

Vampires and sisters, I have a scheme!
Vampires and sisters, WE have a scheme!

[DigoDragon]

Alucard's arc was probably the weakest, mostly because it had no point unless it's a first step for him turning evil. But also I feel like the siblings could have been done better. They were not terrible but there was definitely room for improvement.

I'm still disappointed we're not gonna see Alucard go curb-stomp some Japanese ninja vampires. Missed opportunity! :smalltongue:

[Ramza00]

I'm still disappointed we're not gonna see Alucard go curb-stomp some Japanese ninja vampires. Missed opportunity! :smalltongue:

While that would be fun, the whole point of the Alucard arc is to establish Alucard as The Fisher King, and how he is betrayed by others while doing his duty / obligation. Alucard really needs to adopt some Seekers. Alucard is fine with being immortal and guard his two locations but he need to be connected to the world, connected to people...Not just for social interaction to maintain his soul but also to share his knowledge, intellect, culture, lore, etc.

If the traveling castle could still travel then perhaps Alucard could hide the castle after moving all the Belmont treasures to the castle. But Alucard can not. He is stuck between both worlds of his father and mother, immortal and mortal, part of society yet separate from it...and thus to be Alucard is to suffer in this liminal place, to suffer in Purgatory while his father and mother are now part of Hell.

[HolyDraconus]

If I was to hazard some guesses, the castle will be fixed soon. After the mess of the twins and with Al's connections to humanity fleeing, I think it's enough of a push to get him started on that plot point. And didn't Hector have a wife named Lenore in the games? My bad, it was Rosaly.

[khadgar567]

and season 4 is announced looks like hector and isaac plot gets the green light for next season.

[JadedDM]

Finally got around to finishing it myself. Looking forward to the next one. Although I am amused by how many people interpret that scene about the 'land pirate' as meaning Grant is coming. I took it as a kind of shot at those who keep demanding the character be introduced, even though Ellis has gone on record (https://collider.com/castlevania-season-3-warren-ellis-kevin-kolde-interview/) that he has no interest in introducing him.


You previously said of this character, “What use is a pirate in a landlocked country, anyway?”

Warren Ellis: Well, yes.

But in Season 3 we get some teases of both a character they call the Pirate of the Roads, I believe. And it also features an unnamed sailor who simply goes by The Captain. So are we reading too much into, maybe, some Grant lore in there?

Warren Ellis: You’re reading too much into The Captain. The Captain is simply the Captain, I’m afraid. However, The Pirate of the Roads, he stuck wheels on his boat, because he’s a pirate in a landlocked country. That’s my little nod to all the people still furious that we didn’t use all the two dimensional sprites from the early games.

[LaZodiac]

Warren Ellis continues to say sensible stuff in as mean a way as possible.

Like **** man at least for me it is not that I want you to use this small little sprite guy, I just wanna see what you CAN do with Grant Denasty, man who climbs up walls and throws knives everywhere. I just think he'd be cool.

But I get it. There's no real room for him and he doesn't really make much sense all things considered. Still would like grubby pirate man who climbs sheer walls and doesn't afraid of anything, least of all Draculas.

[Ramza00]

Just a reminder that Warren Ellis (writer and producer of Castlevania) has not played the Castlevania games per interviews with him. Instead he is reading summaries and wikis. I am fine with this personally. I also agree with LaZodiac how he says things can be mean / insensitive at times. Then again this probably explains Warren Ellis's writting style for Ellis has a lot of ******* characters in his works.

-----

Sidenote and this may be too much for this forum. I am fine with Warren Ellis not playing the video games instead reading summaries and wikis and using these things to harvest for lore and recreate these things as his own thing. That is the nature of adaptation, what works in one medium does not work in another medium.

I am now venting about the unfairness of the world. If a new comic writer said that, or a female comic writer who is established, or a writer of another race or sexual orientation, etc with examples. If another person wrote this who was not a white man. Well a certain type of fan would be doing all forms of harassment* such as massive twitter hate campaigns, so on and so on. Saying you are trying to ruin my childhood and I am not okay with that says this toxic part of the fandom.


*Can I prove this, no for it is a hypothetical but I am based this comment off many similar examples from 2014 to 2020.

[Olinser]

Just a reminder that Warren Ellis (writer and producer of Castlevania) has not played the Castlevania games per interviews with him. Instead he is reading summaries and wikis. I am fine with this personally. I also agree with LaZodiac how he says things can be mean / insensitive at times. Then again this probably explains Warren Ellis's writting style for Ellis has a lot of ******* characters in his works.

-----

Sidenote and this may be too much for this forum. I am fine with Warren Ellis not playing the video games instead reading summaries and wikis and using these things to harvest for lore and recreate these things as his own thing. That is the nature of adaptation, what works in one medium does not work in another medium.

I am now venting about the unfairness of the world. If a new comic writer said that, or a female comic writer who is established, or a writer of another race or sexual orientation, etc with examples. If another person wrote this who was not a white man. Well a certain type of fan would be doing all forms of harassment* such as massive twitter hate campaigns, so on and so on. Saying you are trying to ruin my childhood and I am not okay with that says this toxic part of the fandom.


*Can I prove this, no for it is a hypothetical but I am based this comment off many similar examples from 2014 to 2020.


/eyeroll yeah he's totally getting a pass because he's white. That's the ONLY possible reason. Not because the bulk of the games have a 'story' that is less text than the average forum post here and basically boils down to 'Dracula evil Vampire, Belmont hunt Dracula', and the entire NES game of Castlevania 3 is a 1 hour long playthrough by a reasonably skilled player (speedruns are 25-30 min). You could acquire all of the lore necessary to understand Castlevania in a single day from youtube Let's Play videos and the wiki, playing the game itself is frankly irrelevant.

That's a far cry from taking over a comic that has run for decades and has hundreds or THOUSANDS of issues, many varied plotlines, other characters, relationships, and confrontations, and say you don't care enough to read ANY of it.

That says a whole lot more about you and your personal prejudices than anything else.

[LaZodiac]

Just a reminder that Warren Ellis (writer and producer of Castlevania) has not played the Castlevania games per interviews with him. Instead he is reading summaries and wikis. I am fine with this personally. I also agree with LaZodiac how he says things can be mean / insensitive at times. Then again this probably explains Warren Ellis's writting style for Ellis has a lot of ******* characters in his works.

-----

Sidenote and this may be too much for this forum. I am fine with Warren Ellis not playing the video games instead reading summaries and wikis and using these things to harvest for lore and recreate these things as his own thing. That is the nature of adaptation, what works in one medium does not work in another medium.


I'm totally okay with him having not played the games. Much of them are bad, and we don't want him to translate the game to screen so much as translate how the games made us FEEL, and the use of Bloody Tears where they used it was how you feel when you're kicking ass in Castlevania.

As to the subject of "should you read/play everything that you're going into the media for". Absolutely not. Comics especially are nonsense, half the time they aren't actually connected so reading it will be contradictory and the other half, while good, is spread out over 30 issues. No one should be expected to read Spider-man's entire backlog just to write for him. I'd also note that "watching an LP" won't necessarily get you... ANY information about Castlevania, considering some of the games.

[BisectedBrioche]

/eyeroll yeah he's totally getting a pass because he's white. That's the ONLY possible reason. Not because the bulk of the games have a 'story' that is less text than the average forum post here and basically boils down to 'Dracula evil Vampire, Belmont hunt Dracula', and the entire NES game of Castlevania 3 is a 1 hour long playthrough by a reasonably skilled player (speedruns are 25-30 min). You could acquire all of the lore necessary to understand Castlevania in a single day from youtube Let's Play videos and the wiki, playing the game itself is frankly irrelevant.

That's a far cry from taking over a comic that has run for decades and has hundreds or THOUSANDS of issues, many varied plotlines, other characters, relationships, and confrontations, and say you don't care enough to read ANY of it.

That says a whole lot more about you and your personal prejudices than anything else.

I'm inclined to agree with Ramza.

A great deal of the aforementioned type of harassment comes from people barely familiar with the work in question anyway (I mean...comics aren't my area of expertise, but I was under the impression that comic continuity is pretty elastic anyway).

[Ramza00]

/eyeroll yeah he's totally getting a pass because he's white. That's the ONLY possible reason. Not because the bulk of the games have a 'story' that is less text than the average forum post here and basically boils down to 'Dracula evil Vampire, Belmont hunt Dracula', and the entire NES game of Castlevania 3 is a 1 hour long playthrough by a reasonably skilled player (speedruns are 25-30 min). You could acquire all of the lore necessary to understand Castlevania in a single day from youtube Let's Play videos and the wiki, playing the game itself is frankly irrelevant.

That's a far cry from taking over a comic that has run for decades and has hundreds or THOUSANDS of issues, many varied plotlines, other characters, relationships, and confrontations, and say you don't care enough to read ANY of it.
You are assuming the people who harass are rational beings who do things in moderation and understand concepts like ratios on what to be angry about. I would argue the harassers are nothing like that and they are emotional reactive individuals who spend a whole lot of time harassing due to identity reasons. Harassers have more in common with stalkers than people who enjoy a property due to being fans.


That says a whole lot more about you and your personal prejudices than anything else.

You say it is my prejudices. I say it is my life experiences.

[lord_khaine]

Except that would be stupid because, as Carmilla knows well, that's just asking for Hector to grow a brain eventually or start thinking on his own. And if the safeguard is already on, there's really no reason for them not to have their fun with him however it may be. The point remains though that Lenore, by the end of the season, is NOT treating Hector poorly and stands up for him to the rest of her cadre, she just doesn't view him as an independent person either. And if that ring is as easy to circumvent as just lopping off the finger, that is a truly awful safeguard. Like legitimately they'd have been better off with pretty much any other safeguard. So I'm betting that if Hector does get rebellious, he can't jsut remove his finger to be free of it. Hell, he might not be ABLE to remove his finger.

Clearly Lenore's safeguard is to ensure Hector doesnt get so misserable he decides &%¤% it, goodbye finger.
Since at the end of the day, Hector isnt that smart. Or at least not that mature/independent.
Honestly, the only thing that annoyed me more than Lenore wasting time with magic rings, instead of Stockholming the poor guy into loving her..

Is the Judge's secret. Dam that was dumb.
It also really annoyed me he could not just have been a regular Lawful Evil judge they had to deal with.

[Ramza00]

Why do people assume that if you remove the ring or the finger the curse will go away?

[The Fury]

Why do people assume that if you remove the ring or the finger the curse will go away?

Knowing Hector's luck, if he did remove his finger to get the ring off, it probably wouldn't get rid of the curse.

I can just imagine Lenore chiding him afterward, "What? Were you trying to undo the spell? ...Oh... Darling, it doesn't work like that."

[Ramza00]

Knowing Hector's luck, if he did remove his finger to get the ring off, it probably wouldn't get rid of the curse.

I can just imagine Lenore chiding him afterward, "What? Were you trying to undo the spell? ...Oh... Darling, it doesn't work like that."

Yeah from memory when the curse took into effect we see it spread all over his body to his heart if I recall correctly.

———

Perhaps Hector will need to renounce his humanity and become a monster to escape the curse.

[The Fury]

Perhaps Hector will need to renounce his humanity and become a monster to escape the curse.

Maybe. Though if Isaac can be taken at his word, that would suggest that Hector would lose his Forgemaster abilities if he did. Poor dude can't catch a break, can he?

[druid91]

Yeah from memory when the curse took into effect we see it spread all over his body to his heart if I recall correctly.

———

Perhaps Hector will need to renounce his humanity and become a monster to escape the curse.

To be fair, it seems like forgemasters have some ability to break curses, as evidenced by Isaac himself.

[lord_khaine]

Why do people assume that if you remove the ring or the finger the curse will go away?

Because we were told that trying to take the ring off would hurt so bad it was impossible.

[Giggling Ghast]

I finished Season 3 tonight. I actually enjoyed it a fair bit. I mean, it was bittersweet as hell, but that goes well with the whole Gothic Horror vibe.

I was a bit apprehensive going into it, seeing as Season 2 amounted to “Vampires argue about politics while Trevor, Sypha and Alucard go to a library. Also, Dracula is a sad old man aaaaaaaaaand now he’s dead.” That was a little disappointing.

This season had some scale to it, and even a few surprises. Also, I think we can all agree that Trevor dual-wielding whips was hella cool.

I imagine Season 4 will have Camilla’s forces and Hector’s army battling it out, with Trevor, Sypha and Alucard getting dragged into the conflict. (Whoever wins, it would certainly be bad for everyone.)

[darkdragoon]

It's kind of a running joke with Warren that he's brought in specifically to do his take on a given thing not necessarily interested in the original. And with the occasional weird tangent, like how Iron Man is a modern version of mushrooms.

Grant is mostly supposed to be a thief/rogue and has some pretty simple reasoning His family was killed by Dracula, and his status in III as a result of a failed attempt to defeat Drac. Judgement also throws in that he also falls for Sypha.