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Josh the Aspie
2007-10-22, 06:17 PM
I have a friend online who has specifically requested that I run a campaign for her where she plays a white mage like out of Final Fantasy (she didn't specify which version).

On the crunch side, I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for classes.
"Healer" is an obvious possibility due to the low combat high healing abilities, but other than that, anything else?

On the flavor side, I'm debating between using a D&D world (Dragonlance, Ferun, Eberron, Greyhawk, or even one I know called Arcanis), stealing one from one of the Final Fantasy games, or making one up, inspired by the theme (Thus, there would have to be air ships, moogles, and a prominent guy named Cid).

If other people in the group want to continue the theme, any class suggestions for Black Mages, and the like?

She's played Faerun before. If I know her, she'll likely want the game to get... mature... in nature. And she has... exotic... tastes.

Kantolin
2007-10-22, 06:21 PM
White Mage - Healer's probably your best bet. Cloistered Cleric could work in a pinch.

Black Mage - Warmage's probably your best bet. Sorceror could work in a pinch.

Fighter - Fighter's actually a good enough fit. Possibly Knight.

Thief - This one's actually kind of tricky; thieves in the original final fantasy were basically agility-focused fighters over sneak attackers. Still, the rogue class is probably your best bet to grab the flavor and the skills thieves had in other games. Perhaps clap on the elven 'detect secret doors' for a nod to FFV.

Black Belt - This is another tricky one - FF1 Black Belts were glass cannons, not much like the monk class. Picking the D&D monk means you don't have to homebrew, but I really don't think it fits as well... perhaps something to give them added damage at the expense of their AC? (Rage?)

Red Mage - A red mage pretty much is a bard.

Xuincherguixe
2007-10-22, 06:24 PM
There's about a billion final fantasy rule sets people have come up with. But that being said
The Cloistered Cleric from Arcana Unearthered (and also here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric)) covers white mages rather nicely.
Wizard covers Black Mage.

Since Final Fantasy itself has it's origins in dungeons and dragons, the classes really shouldn't be that distant.

goat
2007-10-22, 06:26 PM
Really, for the wizard types, you'd be better off designing a default "caster" class, and then building a custom spell list for each of them. Run it with a spell-point system (it's just like MP!) and you'll be most of the way there.

Josh the Aspie
2007-10-22, 06:28 PM
Well first of all, I'm not just talking about the original final fantasy, but the series as a whole.

Human Paragon 3
2007-10-22, 07:29 PM
The spellcaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#spellcaster)generic class can be anything you want it to be. Leave it up to the player what constitutes a white mage or a black mage.

Sucrose
2007-10-22, 07:34 PM
From what I know of it, the Factotum from Dungeonscape strikes me as a good class for Red Mage; both combat-capable and possessed of decent spellcasting abilities, if he's so inclined.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-22, 07:40 PM
I'd actually worry more about the problem of playing a mature game than the spellcasting system now that you have good examples from which to build up. A mature game requires very mature players, and games of seduction and treason, pacts and loyalty are not for everyone. As Paranoia would say: "Be Alert! Trust No One! Keep Your Laser Handy!"

Karma Guard
2007-10-23, 01:27 AM
I actually just slapped a modified cleric spell list to the Healer (and if they don't already have 1/2 BAB I slapped that on there; I can't exactly remember at this moment). Healers seemed really underpowered to me, so this works out better to me.

The Spellist I'm using:
Overall changes: Few direct damage spells, no Inflicts, basically no Evil spells; pick one of Lawful or Chaotic. Debuffs like Bane are a-ok. No summoning spells.

0-
CMW (Cure Minor Wounds)
Detect
-Disease
-Magic
-Poison
Guidance
Mending
Purify Food and Drink
Read Magic
Resistance
Virtue

Change: I don't remember. :|

1-
Animal Friendship
Alarm
Attraction
Bane/Bless
Bless/Curse Water
Calm Animals
CLW (Light Wounds)
Deathwatch
Detect Alignment
Detect Undead
Doom
Endure Elements
Entropic Shield
Invisibility to Undead
Obscuring Must
Protection from Alignment
Shield of Faith
Speak with Animals
Trance
Weapon Bless

Change: Remove all evil spells.

2-
Aid
Align Weapon
Ancestral Vengence
Animal Messenger
Augury
Bear's CON booster.
Calm Emotions
Commune with Lesser Spirit
Create Spring
CMW
Delay Poison
Eagle's Splendor
Enthrall
Ghoul Touch
Hold Person
Invisibility to Spirits
Know Motivation
Lesser Restoration
Owl's Wisdom
Protection from Spirits
Rebuke
Remove Paralysis
Speak with Plants
Warning

Change: Remove all Evil spells, Remove Bull STR add Bear CON

3-
Bestow Curse
Blind/Deaf
Castigate
Contagion
CSW
Detect Curse
Dispel Magic
Invisibility to Enemies
Levitate
Locate Object
Magic Circle against Alignment
Magic Vestment
Mental Strength/Weakness
Posess Animal
Prayer
Protection from Elements
Remove
-Blind/Deaf
-Curse
-Disease
Substitution

Change: Remove Speak w/dead

4-
Air Walk
Chaos Hammer
CCW
Discern Lies
Discern Shapechanger
Dismissal
Divination
Dream Sight
Fatigue
Holy Smite
Lesser Spirit Ally
Neutralize Poison
Order's Wrath
Polymorph Self
Reanimation
Reincarnate
Remove Fatigue
Restoration
Snake Barrier
Spell Immunity
Sustain
Unholy Blight

Change: Remove Evil spells,

5-
Advice
Atonement
Blood of Fire
Break Enchantment
Circle of Doom
Commune with Greater Spirit
Control Winds
Dispel Alignment
Disrupting Weapon
Dream
Ethereal Jaunt
Healing Circle
Nightmare
Possess
Raise Dead
Scrying
Symbol of Sleep
True Seeing


6-
Animate Objects
Antilife Shell
Bear's Con spell, Mass
CMW, Mass
Eagle's Splendor, Mass
Etherealness
Find the Path
Force Shapechange
Geas/Quest
Greater Dispelling
Harm
Heal
Owl's Wisdom, Mass
Planeshift
Spirit Ally
Stoneskin
Symbol of Persuasion
Undeath to Death
Vulnerability
Wind Walk

Change:

7-
Blasphemy
Control Weather
CSW, Mass
Dictum
Greater Restoration
Holy Word
Refuge
Regenerate
Repulsion
Resurrection
Sunbeam
Symbol of Stunning
Word of Chaos

Change:

8-
Antimagic Field
Cloak of Chaos
Compel
CCW, Mass
Dimensional Lock
Discern Location
Earthquake
Greater Spirit Ally
Holy Aura
Mass Heal
Shield of Law
Spell Immunity, Greater
Summon Nature's Ally VIII

9-
Astral Projection
Gate
Miracle
Soul Bind
True Resurrection

Warmage with the Eclectic Learning variant's a good idea for the black mage, I'm using the Duskblade as a Red Mage, Bards are the same (with Dancers just being the Harbringer Bard variant), Knights work for, well, the Knights. I actually made a Dragoon class! :smallbiggrin:, and I'm slowly working on making a FF10 setting. I've got a Blitzballer class in the wings (I'm stalled out on the last ability and some scaling of other abilities), and a FF-style monk is also vaguely being worked on. I might scrap it and go more FFT/FF6 style one, but whatever.

For the 'Mature' ideas, there's always the Book of Erotic Fantasy >:V. I actually have it, and where it's not being very silly and somewhat dumb about the, er, the more exotic things and the racial ideals on sex (especially the orcs and stuff) it's not a terrible book. You're not really going to get any better than it, anyway. I hope that's what you meant by Mature. I really hope that's what you meant.

Josh the Aspie
2007-10-23, 04:55 AM
I've determined that I'll go with healer, or a variation there of to represent an order of "White Mages".

Cloistered Cleric strikes me as a bit to focused on knowledge, and not quite enough on healing / positive energy for an order of white mages.

If I was trying to be reminiscent specifically of a game like FFX, where casters eventually learned both types of casting, and could access everything, I might use the generic spell casting class, but the flexibility to pick any spell doesn't lend it to white, black, red, or blue magic very well.

Oh. That reminds me. The spell theif class probably winds up being a good 'blue mage' class, especially if there is a feat, or variant out there that lets you steal supernatural abilities. Any ideas from the crowd?

As for Dragoons, something from the book of 9 swords, with all the jumping and weird maneuvers should fit just fine.

For red mage I'd probably point one of my players at Bard, or maybe at Mystic Theurge if they want to play up the two sides of magic angle. I'm not familiar with Dungeon Scape.

If I manage to gather any players, I won't force them into any of the FF roles. At this point I think I'd wind up making my own campaign world. None of the existing campaign worlds except Eberron fit the feel of Magi-Punk quite right, and that one's more Magical Pulp than Magi-punk, not epic enough, far to bleak.

As for the mature game angle... paraphrased quotes from her already include "Wiggles the white mage ass" and "I want to adventure into a village where healers are rare. Maybe because the orc hord carries them all off."

For her getting carried off by the orc hord would not necessarily be a bad thing, as long as she remained among the living, but 'useful' captives. *sigh*

I have other players who would definitely fit into a game where we actually give serious treatment to villain motivation and they aren't assured of winning, and betrayal is an option that I could count on or convince to join.

I'm still not sure just what she wants to get out of the campaign, but I am not going to run a D&D campaign where someone plays "to loose", or invite other players to it... and there's no way a white mage could really make it on their own.

Kurald Galain
2007-10-23, 06:36 AM
Fighter - Fighter's actually a good enough fit. Possibly Knight.

Plus you need some kind of prestige class for the ability to wield swordchucks.

Drglenn
2007-10-23, 07:31 AM
there is a black mage base class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54636) homebrew, made by deshrimp
Useful for characters similar to Vivi (ff9) or black mage (8-bit theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/index.php))

Also: making sword-chucks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3397888&posted=1#post3397888) (as well as other combination weapons)

Fishy
2007-10-23, 07:56 AM
The spell theif class probably winds up being a good 'blue mage' class, especially if there is a feat, or variant out there that lets you steal supernatural abilities. Any ideas from the crowd?

Something like the "Steal Spell Like Ability" class feature they get at level 5? :P

Anyway, I think that Final Fantasy magic works most like Domains or Mantles: either from the domain wizard variant, or obscure splatbook gods, or etc. White Mages get something like Healing and Protection; Black Mages get Fire, Thunder and Ice, Time Mages get Celerity and Trickery, etc, etc.

EDIT: For style points, name each domain after an Esper, and make once per day domain abilities accordingly. Old-School Magicite, yo.

However, it sounds like your friend isn't overly concerned about the mechanics of this game. Maybe you two should just do something freeform- or you could just turn her down if you're not comfortable with that kind of game.

Nowhere Girl
2007-10-23, 02:59 PM
Okay, so she's basically wanting to play with a rape fantasy, is what I'm reading into that. Maybe you should suggest something set in Gor as an alternative possibility. :smalltongue:

Josh the Aspie
2007-10-23, 04:10 PM
Yes Fishy.

:P I'm not exactly familiar with Spell Theives okay? I know they exist, they steal magic, and work kind of sort of like rogues in other areas... and that a guy I know has wanted to play one for a while.

Josh the Aspie
2007-10-23, 07:55 PM
Okay, it looks like I've got my second player, who is playing a spell theif, but I'm looking at the possibility of giving him skirmish instead of sneak attack, since he likes skirmish a lot better. We're dropping the AC bonus, and using the skirmish damage from Scout, at the same rate he would have gained sneak attack.

Any implications of this people can think of?

Also, I just read the class and there is no ability to steal supernatural abilities (rather than spell like abilities). Are there any feats out there that would let one do this?

Human Paragon 3
2007-10-23, 09:26 PM
Skirmish instead of sneak shouldn't unbalance anything. As for the feat, just make one up. Spellthief level 6 should make a decent prerequisite for the feat. Here's an example of the wording:

A spellthief with this feat can use her steal spell ability to steal supernatural or spell-like abilities. The target of this feat must have hit dice equal to or less than the spellthief's character level.

You might want to drop that last, but I think it helps to prevent cheese (like stealing a great wyrm's breath weapon, for instance).

Karma Guard
2007-10-23, 09:39 PM
I As for Dragoons, something from the book of 9 swords, with all the jumping and weird maneuvers should fit just fine.

I've got a Dragoon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58445) class I homebrewed up just a week or so ago; have you seen it?

I ask mostly because I'd love to see it used and playtested.

raichi
2007-10-24, 12:50 PM
k i just have to say BARD IS NOT RED MAGE red mage was a rapier wielder with light armor and a slowly advanced version of both blasting and healing and don't say sublime chord, also in comparison to black mage / white mage they got the 2 biggest things of there spell lists fire,bliz,lightning and cure / double cast but none of the bigger things like flare,holy,life and such so yeah BARD doesn't = redmage nor does duskblade for that matter.... yeah!!!!!:smalltongue:

Duke Malagigi
2007-10-24, 01:22 PM
k i just have to say BARD IS NOT RED MAGE red mage was a rapier wielder with light armor and a slowly advanced version of both blasting and healing and don't say sublime chord, also in comparison to black mage / white mage they got the 2 biggest things of there spell lists fire,bliz,lightning and cure / double cast but none of the bigger things like flare,holy,life and such so yeah BARD doesn't = redmage nor does duskblade for that matter.... yeah!!!!!:smalltongue:

How about chameleon or even Jaerom Darkwind's red mage (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=778804) prestige class? Would that work?

Runolfr
2007-10-24, 01:25 PM
I have a friend online who has specifically requested that I run a campaign for her where she plays a white mage like out of Final Fantasy (she didn't specify which version).

My first reaction is to recommend a cleric with the Good and Healing domains.

For the Black Mage, I would suggest a blaster sorcerer.

Starsinger
2007-10-24, 02:04 PM
My first reaction is to recommend a cleric with the Good and Healing domains.

For the Black Mage, I would suggest a blaster sorcerer.

Spontaneous Cloistered Cleric (both variants found in the SRD and/or unearthed arcana) with the domain of Protection and Healing, if you ask me.

Josh the Aspie
2007-10-25, 12:08 AM
Thanks for all the input guys.

We've currently got a Healer (white mage), a spell theif (blue mage), a bard (red mage), a barbarian, and a psion.

The Psion is an Elan (I know, I know) and the bard is based on the anthropomorphic species from the Monster manual. He's somewhere between the cat and the weasel. I basically used the weasel stats, but evened out the mental stats (all +0), took away the weasel's ability to hold on with a bite, and in it's place gave him a +4 racial bonus to hide, which matches the +4 racial bonus to move silently.

I'm using a variation on the training rules from the DMG. People can start training ahead, and you don't necessarily need a trainer... but working without a trainer doubles the training time (but it does save you some money at least). To "train" a skill you either need to use it extensively (like if you were going to add points to search, disable device, and open lock after going through a kobold warren), or specifically spend time training it.

Further, certain feats are "Regional" in that you need to travel to that region to reliably find a trainer. This will lead to sort of a circuit of the campaign world for the healer to find various temples, the barbarian to find training if he wants exotic techniques, and for the psion to find and study new powers and supernatural abilities. The spell theif will probably need to go someplace in particular to find someone to train them in how to steal supernatural abilities (once I finish fleshing out that feat).

We're starting in a city by the sea, and I've determined that it will be hobgoblins that capture the white mage. They're better at strategy, but have less raw physical power. This will let me play smart and still play them at APL without necessarily killing the party off.

There's going to be 4-5 of them at a time facing the challenge of the hobgoblins.

And I've let them either roll for gold (the local currency is the Gilder), or take a default package.

Haborimasu
2008-03-27, 02:30 AM
Actually, I'm glad I found this thread because I've been wondering if there are any legitimate classes in D&D resembling the Time Mage from FF?

Nothing homebrew though, thanks, since those are often way too overpowered.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-03-27, 02:34 AM
5 months. Really now. 5 months! Does noone read the rules anymore? Does noone care? Why? Why is our world like this? What is happening to us all?
*curls up into a huddled ball*

Tengu
2008-03-27, 05:44 AM
Wizard. Prepare Slow, Haste and other Batman spells. Also...

Thread Necromancy
http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/courses/nes275/studentproj/fall05/coj3/necromancy.jpg

Haborimasu
2008-03-28, 11:25 PM
For Time Mage, what about Chronomancy? Is a chronomancer even available for PCs?

Zincorium
2008-03-28, 11:47 PM
For Time Mage, what about Chronomancy? Is a chronomancer even available for PCs?

Check out the time domain for clerics in regards to appropriate spells, alternately look at things like haste and time stop. Given the dramatic effect any manipulation of time and thus the combat system has, these spells are already viewed as extremely powerful.

Also, make a new thread. It's not that much to ask.

Cainen
2008-03-29, 12:35 AM
For the record, did you make any house rules to the Healer? It's a very, very bad class by its default.

Jayngfet
2008-03-29, 12:48 AM
hang on, does this meas theres no final fantsy d20?, huh, it seems like sutch a natural fit too, they're super popular and have one medium, we have a whole new medium and a bunch of guys who'd homebrew any faults witch can be adapted into "1.5".

Thoughtbot360
2008-03-29, 01:36 AM
Try this system. (http://www14.brinkster.com/zodiacrpg/) Its the Zodiac Final Fantasy RPG. It lacks a lot of out-of-combat stuff, relying on the GM to dictate what happens (But hey, theres no chance of diplomancers becoming close friends with the BBEG in the first six seconds of meeting him) but it gives plenty of tools to the GM (and the players, of course) to design just how the things in their fantasy world work. Its a very balanced system. However, there is no established content.

Anyway, you want to make a White mage? Then you will generally gravitate towards Magical Stats and Gears, rather then their physical counterparts (Thats the "Mage" in White Mage, but you could even make your healer tougher. Just as tough as you'd like.) and then you pick out your healing techs. You could even make a starter version of the Holy Spell right at character creation by picking the "Attack Magic" Primary and pairing it with the "Holy Elemental" Secondary, or perhaps have the Primary be the "Power Attack" effect and deal physical damage instead of magical, but still leave in as holy. Whatever the "Primary" called however, you get to name the Tech. The "Attack Magic" Spell could be called "Dia 1" or "Smite" or even "Ride the Lightning".

Also, its unique in that it is one of the few systems where GMs have rules and guildelines for making their own monsters. (You could dismiss or fudge the rules, however, to make monsters with really unusual abilities..)

black dragoon
2008-03-29, 09:25 AM
I could have sworn that I've seen a homebrew FF D20 setting somewhere. The suggeastions so far would work out pretty well if there is no such thing though.

Tengu
2008-03-29, 12:07 PM
Final Fantasy and D20 do not mesh well together. If you want to play a FF-style game, go for Exalted (and probably modify it a lot, but it's the best bet), Returners' FFRPG (http://www.returnergames.com/) (which I found to have too many limitations, personally) or my FFRPG (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44150) (which is not 100% complete yet, especially the GM part).

Bleen
2008-03-29, 01:28 PM
I would echo the above. D20 + FF = ??? Giant Mess ???, unless you're going for the much earlier titles by exclusivity. Most things that do things in FF work way, way differently in DnD, and a lot of the "traditional" stuff on either end can conflict (White Mages vs. Clerics, for instance).

(If you do Exalted, I would heavily recommend the "Form of Many Belts" and "Nonfunctional Zipper Technique" to best emulate some of the more recent works.)

Cainen
2008-03-29, 02:54 PM
Final Fantasy and D20 do not mesh well together. If you want to play a FF-style game, go for Exalted (and probably modify it a lot, but it's the best bet), Returners' FFRPG (http://www.returnergames.com/) (which I found to have too many limitations, personally) or my FFRPG (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44150) (which is not 100% complete yet, especially the GM part).

The Returners' FFRPG is literally the worst actually workable system I've tried. Many, MANY things are broken or poorly designed, and to get the game working you have to start play past level 1 or be lucky.

Tengu
2008-03-29, 04:38 PM
True, The Returners are poorly designed, easy to break, have a lot of class imbalance, and all members of the same class look almost the same mechanically. But it's still a better idea than playing a Final Fantasy D20 game.