Racial Emulation Undead?

[Gruftzwerg]

I am a bit confused about how Racial Emulation really works. It alters the Changelings "Minor Shape Change" ability, which is based on Disguise Self.
With Disguise Self you can appear to look like an Undead (e.g. Zombie/Skeleton).
And now comes Racial Emulation:

When you use your minor change shape ability to assume the form of a humanoid creature, you can also emulate any of that humanoid's subtypes. Though you do not gain any of the humanoid's traits, you are considered to be a member of that race for all other purposes (allowing you to use magic items or spells keyed to race, for example). You can also ignore the normal penalty on Disguise checks when disguising yourself as a different race (see the Disguise skill description, page 72 of the Player's Handbook). You can only emulate one race at a time, and you always retain the shapechanger subtype.

Since I may look like an Undead (a humanoid shaped creature), may I also count as Undead type in regards to effects (e.g. negative energy)?

[Troacctid]

No, you can only emulate humanoids (www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#humanoidType), not undead (www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType).

[Jack_Simth]

I am a bit confused about how Racial Emulation really works. It alters the Changelings "Minor Shape Change" ability, which is based on Disguise Self.
With Disguise Self you can appear to look like an Undead (e.g. Zombie/Skeleton).
And now comes Racial Emulation:


Since I may look like an Undead (a humanoid shaped creature), may I also count as Undead type in regards to effects (e.g. negative energy)?
Humanoid is a game defined term, a type. So no.

[Gruftzwerg]

Humanoid is a game defined term, a type. So no.

Imho you are thinking of "humanoid type" which is the defined term, not sole humanoid. see the link Troacctid posted. The definition of "Humanoid" is IIRC not altered in any kind.


@ Troacctid
I am aware that Undead (type) are not of "Humanoid Type" in terms of rules, that is not the question here.

The question is: Does Racial Emulation limit me to "Humanoid Type"? I don't see any valid indicator for that. And since the "Minor Shape Change" ability allows for humanoid shapes and not sole humanoid type, one could assume that Racial Emulation is also only referring to humanoid shape and not type. The ability only mentions "humanoid creatures" as possible targets and not "humanoid type". That's my point.

[Daefos]

It says you gain the emulated creature’s subtypes. “Undead” is a type, not a subtype. If you used your shapeshifting to turn into a zombie elf, then your type would be Humanoid (elf, shapechanger). At no point would you actually count as undead.

[JNAProductions]

Imho you are thinking of "humanoid type" which is the defined term, not sole humanoid. see the link Troacctid posted. The definition of "Humanoid" is IIRC not altered in any kind.

@ Troacctid
I am aware that Undead (type) are not of "Humanoid Type" in terms of rules, that is not the question here.

The question is: Does Racial Emulation limit me to "Humanoid Type"? I don't see any valid indicator for that. And since the "Minor Shape Change" ability allows for humanoid shapes and not sole humanoid type, one could assume that Racial Emulation is also only referring to humanoid shape and not type. The ability only mentions "humanoid creatures" as possible targets and not "humanoid type". That's my point.

You could potentially parse the RAW that way, but I think we can be pretty sure that's not the intent.

[Ashtagon]

If you need to make yourself go cross-eyed in order to see a particular interpretation of the rules text, that's probably not the interpretation the writer had in mind.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

There's at least one place in the rules that means "humanoid" by the Merriam-Webster meaning, (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlBody.htm) but you won't find that often elsewhere.

[Gruftzwerg]

It says you gain the emulated creature’s subtypes. “Undead” is a type, not a subtype. If you used your shapeshifting to turn into a zombie elf, then your type would be Humanoid (elf, shapechanger). At no point would you actually count as undead.
That's a good point..^^


You could potentially parse the RAW that way, but I think we can be pretty sure that's not the intent.
So the intent is that emulating Incorporeal subtype is ok, but emulating undead is not intended? Weird assumption if you ask me.


If you need to make yourself go cross-eyed in order to see a particular interpretation of the rules text, that's probably not the interpretation the writer had in mind.
Only if you read humanoid types into it. RAW it is not the same, and humanoid creature and form are terms often used in ways not related/limited to type.

Imho RAW doesn't demand it, but the results are odd as Daefos pointed out. And going RAI and taking it as humanoid type doesn't make much sense either if you think about the incorporeal/undead argument.

I'm more confused than ever..^^