Pathfinder: How to balance a CR 8 Fight for a 2 person level 5 party?

[MonkeySage]

Due to recent circumstances the current party consists of a kobold bard (CG) and a gnoll alchemist (NG), both level 5. They used to have a Warlock (Homebrewed native outsider that physically resembles an emperor penguin) Their enemy for this scenario is a unique CR 8 demon with high resistances and acid skin + abilities. She's actually a human who transforms directly into a demonic embodiment of sloth.

My players might have temporary access to an elderly knight, a level 9 cavalier who, should he become a gmpc for them, he would not be able to bring his horse to the fight. The demon in human form is posing as a servant in the local lord's (The Count Who Never Sleeps, he's a paragon of diligence- a temple builder, etc.) court.

I don't just wanna make the demon weaker, but i also don't want my players to get slaughtered by this monster.

[Madsamurai]

Depends on how well optimized the party and the demon are. And how much the demon's abilities rely on save-or-lose effects. By the numbers you're party has a "Cr" of 7, which means that all else being equal, they are more likely to lose them win. The cav is elderly and lacking a Mount so it's hard to tell how much he will help, but it should make the fight winnable. Especially if the bard and alch can focus on supporting him while he tanks the demon.

That being said... If the demon has an aura with a strong debuff, you run a major chance that it will disable half the party in the first round and change the fight from "hard but winnable" to "run! Run now!" Likewise if the demon gets the drop on them or is otherwise able to invalidate their planning it might go bad. Point is that with only 2 people the margins for error are slim.

On the other hand, of your characters are focused combat monsters and the demon is not tricksy they will just stomp them. Ultimately CR is an imperfect measure of power and we'd need to know more to guess how the fight would go.

[MonkeySage]

The demon has the typical resistances and damage resistance, and her skin produces an acidic slime (similar to a more common demonic race) that has a chance to damage weapons used against her. Her breath weapon is a line of acid that allows for a reflex save and deals 4d8 damage (iirc), and her slam attack also deals acid damage. She physically resembles a slug, and she's not very agile.

[Kurald Galain]

The demon has the typical resistances and damage resistance, and her skin produces an acidic slime (similar to a more common demonic race) that has a chance to damage weapons used against her. Her breath weapon is a line of acid that allows for a reflex save and deals 4d8 damage (iirc), and her slam attack also deals acid damage. She physically resembles a slug, and she's not very agile.

With an enemy like that, one way to keep your party from getting slaughtered is the Resist Energy spell. It's on the alchemist list, or you could give some potions as loot.

[Madsamurai]

Ya, the demon sounds like a pretty straightforward beater. They probably have good odds if the Cavalier is with them and/or if they know what her powers are and can prepare for the fight.

With a small party luck has more of an impact, so check that the demon's AC and DR is not so high that they have no chance of hitting or harming her, but otherwise go for it!

Plus if the demon is a slug, they probably have a good chance of actually running away if it all goes to the Abyss.

[Ken Murikumo]

Madsamurai makes a great point about AC/DR. If i ran the encounter, i would:

-give the enemy a low AC to ensure the players are doing constant damage, but a reasonable low-mid DR to ensure the fight isn't over in 2 rounds.

-avoid any spell or effect that removes a player for the round, like grappling/black tentacles/hold person etc; i use debuffs instead because it still gives them actions and options each round without forcing them to sit on their hands until they make the right save.

-& give them things they can use in the environment to their advantage. For instance if the fight took place in a temple, i'd point out weak or crumbling columns they could push onto the enemy, oils and other ceremonial liquids they could use to catalyze fire attacks (like alchemists fire) to make them stronger or longer lasting. I'd also make sure the temple was full of pews or some kind of seating arrangement that would give them a mobility benefit vs the slow slug woman.

With everything above i, personally, wouldn't even give them an NPC to help them; but that's just me.

[Psyren]

Due to recent circumstances the current party consists of a kobold bard (CG) and a gnoll alchemist (NG), both level 5. They used to have a Warlock (Homebrewed native outsider that physically resembles an emperor penguin) Their enemy for this scenario is a unique CR 8 demon with high resistances and acid skin + abilities. She's actually a human who transforms directly into a demonic embodiment of sloth.

My players might have temporary access to an elderly knight, a level 9 cavalier who, should he become a gmpc for them, he would not be able to bring his horse to the fight. The demon in human form is posing as a servant in the local lord's (The Count Who Never Sleeps, he's a paragon of diligence- a temple builder, etc.) court.

I don't just wanna make the demon weaker, but i also don't want my players to get slaughtered by this monster.

I would make the demon weaker but give it henchmen of some kind, like a couple of dretch or quasit underlings. Single-monster boss fights tend to be too swingy for my tastes, even with only 2 PCs.

[Gnaeus]

Presumably the bard would care most about SR and saves. Unless he’s a fighter type.

For the alchemist, it depends more on his build than the demon. He doesn’t likely care about SR or DR. What he cares about is that all demons are ER 10 vs fire and cold. And this one is immune to Acid and electric. If he HAS bombs that can hurt or disable it he could be good. But he may be shut out from start.

[W3bDragon]

Seems like everyone has given enough advice regarding this fight. So, speaking from experience of playing several campaigns with only 2 PCs, I'll give some general pointers.

* With a low number of PCs, it makes a huge difference if the PCs go first. Losing initiative is rough for a low number of players since they don't have enough warm bodies to soak up the openers of the enemies without getting into trouble. Losing initiative AND giving the enemy a surprise round is devastating. As such, be very careful with ultra high initiative monsters, and consider taking 10 for all initiative checks to reduce some of the variance for the PCs.

* In a similar vein, as much as possible, allow the PCs to engage in battle on their own terms. If they get to choose the time and place of an engagement, they can deploy their buffs and use positioning to great effect.

* If you want to avoid TPKs, always give the PCs a way out. When designing every single encounter, give some thought to what would happen if the PCs fail. Is there an escape route? Will the enemies chase them? Can you find a reason for the enemies to take them alive? These considerations will make you much less nervous when running the encounter.

* If you find after applying all of these that the fights are still too dangerous, consider giving them henchmen. These henchmen should most definitely be lower level than the PCs. I generally keep henchmen at 1 level lower than the PCs, with about 1/3 or 1/2 the PCs WBL for items. I also choose one player and give them control over the henchmen, so I can avoid using my own knowledge while controlling them. Even if it appears to you that the henchmen are not very effective, being able to soak up attacks, block flanking, waste enemy rounds, and provide buffs are all worthwhile additions to a two person party.

[stack]

Running away should be easy. Its a sloth demon. Not like it will chase you far. :smallbiggrin:

Really, one wonders why you need to fight an embodiment of sloth. Not like it will get around to executing its plans anytime soon.

Seriously though, I second the minion suggestion. With a few extra bodies, it is less likely to go dramatically in one way or another on a lucky crit (especially with a cavalier using challenge).