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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next What level should this spell be?



The Cats
2020-03-06, 10:31 PM
Conjuration
Casting time of 1 action
Range of touch
V, S, M (insignificant) components
Duration of 1 hour

You place an arcane mark on an object or creature you can touch. For the duration of the spell you can use an action to touch another creature within 1,000 feet of the mark. They must succeed on a charisma saving throw or be teleported to a space adjacent to the marked object or creature.

EDIT: oh whoops. It's also concentration. An alternate idea is it lasting 1 minute, then higher spell levels allow longer duration.

MrStabby
2020-03-07, 03:55 PM
So Cha save or die for most enemies? Adamantine coin tossed into a Volcano? I would say you are looking at level 9 considering it is better than gate.

It isn't even like using it ends the spell. How many enemies can you touch in an hour?

The Cats
2020-03-07, 05:29 PM
Sure? If you're fighting within 1,000 feet of the caldera? And brought an adamantine coin with you? And your enemy has low CHA and isn't fire immune? That would be an clever use of the spell?

Yes, I was thinking the 7-9 range since it is pretty powerful. Thanks for the input. Despite the snide dismisiveness it was almost helpful.

EDIT: Sorry, my dog got chased into the woods and I had just gotten home after looking for him for a couple hours when I wrote this. Your response annoyed the crap out of me but there was no reason to try to escalate it besides me feeling pissy.

Damon_Tor
2020-03-07, 07:56 PM
Sure? If you're fighting within 1,000 feet of the caldera? And brought an adamantine coin with you? And your enemy has low CHA and isn't fire immune? That would be an clever use of the spell?

That was just one example. A teleport you can use against an unwilling creature is a powerful tool, and not only when you're fighting near an explicit hazard. Cast it on your owl familiar and have it fly 200 feet up. You now deal 20d6 damage+prone with a touch on a failed cha save for the next hour, or two if you're a sorcerer with the duration increasing metamagic.

Or, set up a prison room. There are a bunch of ways to do this, but here's one: cast Passwall to access an area 20 feet into a solid rock face, then use Transmute Rock to turn a 40-foot cube of stone into a mud pit. Toward the end of Passwall's duration (1 hour, a good time for a short rest) toss in a coin with your spell cast on it and continue on your adventure. The Passwall closes up, leaving a 40/40/40 cube of mud, and no air, sitting surrounded by 20 feet of stone. At this point you spend you next hour (or two, again, if you have the right metamagic) teleporting anyone you feel like into your mud pocket, where they will remain... hell, probably forever. Most of the things you put in there will suffocate, others will just become perma-restrained: freeing yourself costs an action, and then the restraining kicks in again at the end of the turn. Spellcasters will be unable to see through the mud (which eliminates "passwall" and many other spells as a means of escape) and a poor guess as to what's happening resulting in any sort of dispelling or anti-magic process simply turning the mud back into stone and making their situation much much worse. Some will be able to teleport away with dimension door or other teleportation spells that don't rely on sight, but the vast majority will simply be stuck there and die with lungs full of liquid granite. As a bonus, on your way back out of the dungeon you're free to use Passwall to access the chamber again so you can fish out all the loot from the dead guys.

So I guess you've got to ask yourself how often in an adventuring day should a wizard be able to do this, or something like it? A level 9 spell can be cast once per day, a level 8 spell can be cast twice per day, level 7 four times, level 6 six times.

I would think level 8 would be appropriate.

The Cats
2020-03-07, 08:34 PM
Yes, I understand that with creative use this can be very powerful. Thank you, 8th level sounds right to me as well.

But where are you getting those cats-per-day from? Wizards only get one 8th, two 7th level, and two 6th slots at level 20 and Arcane Recovery doesn't work for slots higher than 5th level.

Damon_Tor
2020-03-07, 08:49 PM
Yes, I understand that with creative use this can be very powerful. Thank you, 8th level sounds right to me as well.

But where are you getting those cats-per-day from? Wizards only get one 8th, two 7th level, and two 6th slots at level 20 and Arcane Recovery doesn't work for slots higher than 5th level.

A sixth level spell can be cast with a sixth, seventh eighth or ninth level slot.

The Cats
2020-03-07, 09:20 PM
... I have been playing 5E for two years and never once considered you could do that with spells that didn't specify it in the description. Thanks.

Damon_Tor
2020-03-07, 11:56 PM
... I have been playing 5E for two years and never once considered you could do that with spells that didn't specify it in the description. Thanks.

As such, I find the best way to determine where a spell is balanced is to think of it in exactly those terms. If you made this a 7th level spell, for example, but had run out of 7th level slots, would you more-often-than-not cast this using an 8th level slot rather than one of your 8th level spells? If so, the spell is probably a better fit at 8th level. 8th level has a bunch of spells that reasonably reliably take a single enemy out of the fight for a while, this one let's you do it again and again and again and again, and once a guy fails that one save he doesn't get another chance, he's wherever else you wanted him to be. Even if you aren't pulling any tricks, just leaving that mark someplace behind a door sealed with a humble Arcane Lock spell will take any monster you hit with it out of that one fight, and this lets you do it again and again and again for an hours worth of adventuring.

It is at least level 8, but it would be ranked highly in that tier.

To bring it somewhere in line with balance at 8th level I would implement at least one of the following:

Add a provision where a creature who makes the save against it is immune to the spell for 24 hours, so you can't just repeat it over and over again until you tag the guy.
The creature can use try to use its action to return by touching the object and making an arcana check against your spell save DC.
Require two failed saves to be teleported, the first is a dex save to avoid being touched in the first place. The second is the cha save against unwanted teleportation.
Require the "destination item" you touch be a moderately expensive (~200 gp) spell component, limiting some shenanigans. It isn't consumed, but you have to be able to go back and get it if you don't want to buy another. This also serves to limit the ability use a familiar or an adamantine object, and therefore limits shenanigans in that way as well.

MrStabby
2020-03-08, 07:50 AM
Sure? If you're fighting within 1,000 feet of the caldera? And brought an adamantine coin with you? And your enemy has low CHA and isn't fire immune? That would be an clever use of the spell?

Yes, I was thinking the 7-9 range since it is pretty powerful. Thanks for the input. Despite the snide dismisiveness it was almost helpful.

EDIT: Sorry, my dog got chased into the woods and I had just gotten home after looking for him for a couple hours when I wrote this. Your response annoyed the crap out of me but there was no reason to try to escalate it besides me feeling pissy.

Sorry, wasn't intended to be snide dismissiveness just illustrating why I would say it is an exceptionally powerful spell written quickly.

Wrath Of Grapes
2020-03-08, 08:45 AM
It is a powerful spell that hides it's power in it's simplicity, but the indirect result stays the same; you can kill a creature by failing a charisma save, as it stands I feel it breaks the design principles of 5th edition. There is no spell that can achieve the same result as it stands. A wish could, arguably do this in a more direct fashion but would more likely call for a wisdom save and the caster would suffer the consequences of casting a non-standard wish.