Does Prismatic Wall + Reverse Gravity actually work?

[OgataiKhan]

The combo is a classic: you cast Prismatic Wall above an enemy, then you cast Reverse Gravity to make them fall up through the wall, then you drop concentration on Reverse Gravity to make them fall through again. It usually one-shots the target.

But, does it work?
Prismatic Wall says "When a creature attempts to reach into or pass through the wall, it does so one layer at a time through all the wall's layers. As it passes or reaches through each layer, the creature must make a Dexterity saving throw or be affected by that layer's properties".

Does forced movement, like in the case of Reverse Gravity, trigger the wall's effects or would they just pass through unharmed? RAW it seems they'll be unharmed, but logically it makes little sense.

[MaxWilson]

Does forced movement, like in the case of Reverse Gravity, trigger the wall's effects or would they just pass through unharmed? RAW it seems they'll be unharmed, but logically it makes little sense.

Congratulations, you've just discovered why "RAW" is not a compliment. It's best used to highlight deficiencies in the written rules. As in, "By RAW they'll be unharmed, but that's stupid and no sane DM would run it that way."

[ThePolarBear]

Congratulations, you've just discovered why "RAW" is not a compliment. It's best used to highlight deficiencies in the written rules. As in, "By RAW they'll be unharmed, but that's stupid and no sane DM would run it that way."

Or: Prismatic Wall is meant to be a wall that is difficult to pass when one wants to, and impossible otherwise. Or that has no effect on those that do not want to pass. Who knows?

[Xenken]

Congratulations, you've just discovered why "RAW" is not a compliment. It's best used to highlight deficiencies in the written rules. As in, "By RAW they'll be unharmed, but that's stupid and no sane DM would run it that way."

So we discovered that a one hit instant kill move that forum users like doesn't actually work.

That's a bad thing...why?

[Warlush]

This is the same problem people run into with booming blade, or anything that requires the creature to use it's own movement. At the end of a session you feel like little kids playing cops and robbers. "I shot you!"
"No you didn't!" And the player everyone hates opens the PHB or DMG and says "Actually..." And then we all grown and wonder to ourselves why we're spending our precious little free time playing with a bunch of NERDS.

[TIPOT]

The combo is a classic: you cast Prismatic Wall above an enemy, then you cast Reverse Gravity to make them fall up through the wall, then you drop concentration on Reverse Gravity to make them fall through again. It usually one-shots the target.

But, does it work?
Prismatic Wall says "When a creature attempts to reach into or pass through the wall, it does so one layer at a time through all the wall's layers. As it passes or reaches through each layer, the creature must make a Dexterity saving throw or be affected by that layer's properties".

Does forced movement, like in the case of Reverse Gravity, trigger the wall's effects or would they just pass through unharmed? RAW it seems they'll be unharmed, but logically it makes little sense.

Isn't the attempts in that sentence referring to the fact they might fail and die? Like you can attempt to go through a windmill in minigolf but you use the term attempt because of the chance of failure. If you fall into the wall you're stiff attempting to pass through it. You roll to see if you suceed.

[Deathtongue]

Prismatic Wall says "When a creature attempts to reach into or pass through the wall, it does so one layer at a time through all the wall's layers. As it passes or reaches through each layer, the creature must make a Dexterity saving throw or be affected by that layer's properties".

Depends on whether you read 'attempts' as an action of uncertain completion (with my limited computer skills, I attempted to delete the virus) or 'attempts' as in willful agency (by my will, I attempted to delete the virus).

[Battlebooze]

If forced movement prevents the damage of a Prismatic Wall, then a Prismatic wall is nearly useless against more that a single opponent. (The Blindness effect might have some small use, but that's not much for a 9th level spell.)

"I cast Prismatic wall! Ha! We are safe!"

"The first Barbed devil pushes the second through the prismatic wall with a shove. They form a conga line doing this, leaving one behind. None of the Barbed devils passing through the wall take damage."

"Damn RAW!"

[Deathtongue]

If forced movement prevents the damage of a Prismatic Wall, then a Prismatic wall is nearly useless against more that a single opponent. (The Blindness effect might have some small use, but that's not much for a 9th level spell.)Even if Prismatic Wall did not work on forced movement, it'd still be a top-tier spell. For example, your Devil Conga Line Example: you can make it so that your party can just dart to the other side of the wall, forcing the Devils to do the same thing all over again.

That said, I do think that RAW and RAI works on forced movement.

RAW: Attempt could mean 'willful intent', as in, I want to go through this wall. It could also mean attempt as in 'undertake a venture of uncertain success', as in, I may be going through this wall but I also need to make a buttload of saves so ATTEMPT is what I'm trying to do. In absence of additional information, it's hard to say which interpretation they meant.
RAI: If I put a Prismatic Wall at the midway point of a well and then threw my enemies into said well, I think few people would claim these people wouldn't be making a buttload of saves even if the only reason they interacted with the Prismatic Wall was by force of gravity.

[Battlebooze]

Even if Prismatic Wall did not work on forced movement, it'd still be a top-tier spell. For example, your Devil Conga Line Example: you can make it so that your party can just dart to the other side of the wall, forcing the Devils to do the same thing all over again.

Heh, shall we dub the spell, the Prismatic Hokey Pokey then?

I agree, forced movement really should trigger the effect of a Prismatic Wall and saying otherwise just leads to mass silly behavior.

[MaxWilson]

So we discovered that a one hit instant kill move that forum users like doesn't actually work.

That's a bad thing...why?

Because the failure mode is incoherent and unphysical. "You fall through the wall, twice, but it doesn't hurt you because you didn't want to pass through it."

It also leads to cheesy exploits like NPCs bypassing the wall by just Shoving each other through the wall instead of attempting to walk through it.

Nothing about the game improves if you stick to the RAW alone. If you as DM dislike the combo, there are plenty of better ways to neuter it anyway, starting with flying bad guys and Counterspell. Don't break your gameworld's physics because you're afraid of a "one-hit instant kill" (which isn't even a one-hit instant kill, since plenty of things can survive 2x Prismatic Wall).

[ThePolarBear]

Depends on whether you read 'attempts' as an action of uncertain completion (with my limited computer skills, I attempted to delete the virus) or 'attempts' as in willful agency (by my will, I attempted to delete the virus).

The first meaning is one for the attempt, noun, not attempt, verb. The first example you made in fact implicitly tells us that it is something that you did, not that you suffered. You acted upon it.

At least, that's how i always seen it. "an attempt", an action, not "to attempt", to try to.