Party of 3

[Mikaleus]

Level 1 party consisting of a Forge cleric and a ranger.

What class would be of most benefit to this party?

My thoughts are

Paladin - charisma, tank

Wizard - arcana, control

Sorcerer /Divine Soul- Arcana, cleric spell access and charisma

Artificer - Arcana, magic items

Rolled stats. 8, 13, 14, 15, 16, 16
I’m going with Hill dwarf for story reasons (the cleric is my wife both in game and RL).

I’d prob spend my attributes

Paladin Str 16, Dex 8, Con 17(+2 racial) Int 14 Wis 14 (+1) Cha 16

Wizard/ Artificer S 8 D 16 Con 17 In 16 Wis 14 Cha 14

Sorcerer S 8 D 16 Con 17 int 14 Wis 14 Ch 16

I’ve played Paladin in my first d&d campaign. Enjoyed the class, and I mostly chose it to fill in gaps of the party I was playing with.

My biggest issue is playing optimally to benefit the small group or play what I want next (leaning to a caster). I still want to benefit the party , but don’t want to be selfish.

I should also mention this campaign will probably feature a lot of undead, and possibly fiends.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Level 1 party consisting of a Forge cleric and a ranger.

What class would be of most benefit to this party?

My thoughts are

Paladin - charisma, tank

Artificer - Battlesmith, Arcana skills, tanky, pet

Sorcerer - Divine Soul, Arcana and charisma

Rolled stats. 8, 13, 14, 15, 16, 16
I’m going with Hill dwarf for story reasons (the cleric is my wife both in game and RL).

I’d prob spend my attributes

Paladin Str 16, Dex 8, Con 17(+2 racial) Int 14 Wis 14 (+1) Cha 16

Artificer S 8 D 16 Con 17 In 16 Wis 14 Cha 14

Sorcerer S 8 D 16 Con 17 int 14 Wis 14 Ch 16


I should also mention this campaign will probably feature a lot of undead, and possibly fiends.

Doesn't matter.

The DM's job is to craft a story and challenge players. The player's job is to bring a character. Pick anything you want and let the DM do their job.

I find the Rogue to be a fun class. You can set it up with moderate ability scores, a lot of expertise, and be awesome at a bunch of things whole still being a great support character on combat, social, and exploration.

[XmonkTad]

I should also mention this campaign will probably feature a lot of undead, and possibly fiends.
Paladin seems like it would have the best synergy of the three. Not a lot in the casting department, but charisma and tanking are quite important things. You'll also bring a bit of backup healing, which the cleric will appreciate, and you'll make the best use of their armor enhancements.
The synergy with the types of enemies you'll face in the campaign is the cherry on top.

[Mikaleus]

Updated original post

[Mikaleus]

Paladin seems like it would have the best synergy of the three. Not a lot in the casting department, but charisma and tanking are quite important things. You'll also bring a bit of backup healing, which the cleric will appreciate, and you'll make the best use of their armor enhancements.
The synergy with the types of enemies you'll face in the campaign is the cherry on top.
I’ve played Paladin before and totally agree it’s a strong contender for this group for all the reasons you listed. Thanks for the reply

[Man_Over_Game]

Both already have, at least, medium armor (Cleric might have heavy armor) and shields.
Both already have decent Hit Dice, at 1d8 and 1d10.

Both are magically-inclined.

As long as your third character doesn't use Wisdom, it's pretty hard to go wrong. You'll probably want something with Strength, to cover all of your bases. Eldritch Knight is my suggestion, as it would allow the other two casters to maintain their Concentration spells for longer.

[JumboWheat01]

((Yes, I'm going to use 4e terms.))

Forge Cleric is definitely a Leader with a side of Defender, Ranger is a Striker with a strong side of out-of-combat Support/Utility. Both can also supplement their martial prowess with spells.

Both classes generally have a good single-target focus, I would suggest something that can focus on multiple targets at once and Control them. In your list, Wizard is definitely a Controller par-excellence, and going with an Enchanter in particular will let you put that higher Charisma to work, coupled with your Enchantment spells, to be a decent enough Face for the party. This also brings into play a Wizard's wide range of AoE capability for extra Striker power, and your huge list of rituals to use for some out-of-combat Utility.

Sorcerer is a fair second choice, going with Subtle Spell to be an even better Face with Enchantments, though the limited spell options may be a problem as situations happen. Though there is that idea with going as a Divine Soul to provide more support, allowing the Cleric to take a more aggressive and at-the-fore roll in the party, which would put you in a more Leader roll.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

((Yes, I'm going to use 4e terms.))



A random person after my own heart ❤️

[Mikaleus]

((Yes, I'm going to use 4e terms.))

Forge Cleric is definitely a Leader with a side of Defender, Ranger is a Striker with a strong side of out-of-combat Support/Utility. Both can also supplement their martial prowess with spells.

Both classes generally have a good single-target focus, I would suggest something that can focus on multiple targets at once and Control them. In your list, Wizard is definitely a Controller par-excellence, and going with an Enchanter in particular will let you put that higher Charisma to work, coupled with your Enchantment spells, to be a decent enough Face for the party. This also brings into play a Wizard's wide range of AoE capability for extra Striker power, and your huge list of rituals to use for some out-of-combat Utility.

Sorcerer is a fair second choice, going with Subtle Spell to be an even better Face with Enchantments, though the limited spell options may be a problem as situations happen. Though there is that idea with going as a Divine Soul to provide more support, allowing the Cleric to take a more aggressive and at-the-fore roll in the party, which would put you in a more Leader roll.

Use those terms friend , I wasn’t able to play 4e, and I really really wanted to try Druid, Fey pact hexblade, Sorcerer and Warden classes a go.


I’m almost tempted to play a Druid in this .....but I’m trying to break my habits haha

[Cheesegear]

I used to regularly play in a party of 3. We found that the best combo was:

Paladin, Ranger, Bard.

Everyone, more or less, can heal themselves. With the Paladin having access to Lay on Hands for powerful burst heals.
Every Short Rest, Bard hands out Song of Rest, boosting the party ever-so-slightly more.

Ideally, your DM has given you some idea of what your campaign actually is, so the Ranger can pick Favoured Terrain and a Favoured Enemy that doesn't suck.
Inside an urban area, your (Lore) Bard had a ****-ton of skills at their disposal.

At least one of your party should have Criminal, or Urchin, for proficiency in Thieves' Tools.
Outlander Background solves a lot of wilderness problems, if the Ranger isn't in their Favoured Terrain.
With a Herbalism Kit, and a Ranger/Outlander/Survival, you should be able to make a ****-ton of Healing Potions if your DM isn't bad. Just in case your Spell slots run out.

That being said, judicious use of spell selection is really important.

[CTurbo]

I'd go Paladin all the way. The party needs a face, and Paladins make any party better. From an RP standpoint, a husband/wife Paladin/Cleric combo sounds fun.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

You don't really need to look for a way to fill in anything. As a DM to 4 wis characters party I have no problem to challenge them and bounded accuracy make them able to compete in non wis skills.


I'd go Paladin all the way. The party needs a face, and Paladins make any party better. From an RP standpoint, a husband/wife Paladin/Cleric combo sounds fun.

+1

I had gone this way and it worked great for me.

[MrStabby]

I would go with Wizard.

You are missing an int based character

Your party should be relatively tough already

Your party has broad healing options already

Your party is a bit weak on control and your party may need to pull out a bit more damage in certain circumstances so access to fireball is nice (not often I would cite damage as an upside to a wizard, but the spell IS that good and fills a niche (especially with forge cleric resistance)).



If all classes are open, consider bard as well. You can take the spells that your party needs, be a good party face, your inspiration will go further spread between only two other players and your downside of not being able to switch out spells is covered by the supreme flexibility of your party cleric. Also, can tie in to the cleric as a choir master of the same church if you wish.

[Mikaleus]

Yeah Paladin is such a strong option for this party.

Bard is an interesting option too.

I’m almost tempted to run a Druid , shepherd, and allow the party to play the summons.

[Cheesegear]

You are missing an int based character

So?
I can count on one hand the number of times I've used Knowledge skills. The only Int skill that really matters, is Investigation. But, ~two thirds of the time an Investigation check is called for, you can Take 20.

I've played several campaigns and one-shots where nobody's character at the table has an Int higher than 12, and we've never suffered for it. Not even against Illusions.

[MrStabby]

So?
I can count on one hand the number of times I've used Knowledge skills. The only Int skill that really matters, is Investigation. But, ~two thirds of the time an Investigation check is called for, you can Take 20.

I've played several campaigns and one-shots where nobody's character at the table has an Int higher than 12, and we've never suffered for it. Not even against Illusions.

I suppose I would also answer with... So?

Just because your DM doesn't use about a third of the skills in the game will not mean the the DM of the OP won't. I will grant that int skills, just like any other skills (with the exception of athletics on a grapple build) are situational. In my current campaign failed int checks have resulted directly in one dead PC and at least two falling unconscious.

[Cheesegear]

I will grant that int skills, just like any other skills (with the exception of athletics on a grapple build) are situational.

Of course every skill is 'situational'. But how often do those situations arise?

The more of these your party has - especially in a 3-person party - the more of the common situations you'll be able to resolve, especially if your DM hasn't elaborated on the kind of campaign they're running, 'cause it's a surprise:

Athletics
Acrobatics
Stealth
Investigation (At least one character in every party should be Proficient, but not necessarily an Int-based character, though)
Knowledge (Arcana) ...And only Knowledge Arcana.
Insight
Perception (Arguably the most important skill in the game)
Survival
Deception/Intimidation/Persuasion - Most players at my table are usually Proficient in one, regardless of campaign.


The number of encounters these following Skills solve, are rare. Now, that's not to say that there doesn't exist a situation in which these skills are useful - that's not what I'm saying at all. Maybe throughout a campaign they might get used once, maybe twice, and if you don't have those skills...**** gets really real for an encounter:

Sleight of Hand
All Knowledge Skills that aren't Arcana.
Animal Handling
Medicine
Performance

...Now, if your DM explicitly tells you that your campaign is going to take place around a travelling circus; Yeah, Performance will be kind of important on at least one character - if not all of them.

Who hasn't used Sleight of Hand once? Who uses Sleight of Hand all the time?


In my current campaign failed int checks have resulted directly in one dead PC and at least two falling unconscious.

...There it is. Was that one encounter? Or did it happen multiple times?
Did multiple characters have to pass? In which case one character passing, doesn't actually help the others? Those situations happen all the time. One character passes the check. Except it's a group check, so one person passing doesn't mean anything, they may as well have not passed at all - 'cause they didn't.

Were there no other ways to resolve the encounter? Int checks were the only way to save you? Was taking 20 an option? Should I eat these yellow berries? Well, I don't have Knowledge (Nature), but I'll take 20 and ideally that passes and now I don't die to poison berries.

In any case, you'll have to elaborate. Because that situation seems incredibly rare, and now I need to know if that situation could/would happen to me, and whether or not I'm wrong. Like I said, it's not that the situation doesn't exist. It's...How often does it matter, insofar that you would actually go out of your way to be bad at the skills that you would use all the time?

Once all our PCs were on horses and we had to constantly make Animal Handling checks in order to fight. Our party found that encounter really difficult. Did it make one encounter really, really difficult? Yes. Has it happened again? Nope. Is lack of Animal Handling a significant obstacle that our party needs to face? Nope.

[Quietus]

I say Lore bard. A "keeper of the scrolls" type, the sort who can recite clan lineage and history without a moment's hesitation. Someone who inspires other dwarves by reminding them of some story from their clan's past where their great-great-great-grandpappy faced a similar situation and overcame it with stoicism and a strong sense of duty.

This covers the crowd control aspect. Brings some of the arcane, a little usefulness in every skill. Come level 6 you can pick up much-needed spells like Counterspell and Fireball to cover more holes in the party. And you can serve as the party face, when the need arises.

Stat wise, I'd be looking at Str 8, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 15, Wis 14, Cha 16, after racials. Alternatively you can play around with the Dex/Con/Int to taste. Flavor the low Str how you like - damage from glorious battle, a childhood sickness, or simply being older. Lots of ways to play it off.

[MrStabby]

I think it is worth distinguishing between something being "Rare" and something just being a thing that you personally have not seen that often.

To give some examples of int checks seen in my campaign:

Arcana Check to realise things are glyphs that will set off traps.

Arcana checks to deduce golems damage immunities and vulnerabilities

Arcana check to deduce which living spells a wizard had been creating by the reagents purchased

Religion check to know how to lift a curse and save a trip into town. Party ambushed before it could be lifted, screwed the party.

Religion check to know the likely spell list of the cult set up in the city and therefore what to prepare for.

History check to identify how a particular demon prince had been defeated in the past to showcase vulnerabilities.

History check to know folktales of where a particular magical halberd was to be found

History check to identify topics of family honour to bring up and to avoid to smooth diplomacy

Nature check every time someone want to harvest a venom or a toxin from a defeated enemy.

Investigation - for most conventional traps, quite a lot of these

Int - codebreaking, although to be fair the party got the same result with finger breaking for information gathering.

And of course int checks for illusion spells, maze and so on.

For a check where you just need one person to get something right it is usually really useful to have someone in the party good at it. Now you can engineer a campaign such that a party can do it without a high int - absolutely possible, but Can doesn't mean Will.

[Mikaleus]

I asked my DM what skills would be appropriate for his game. He did mention investigation, history and definitely Arcana would be helpful.

As such, I think that sums up my class choice.
I’ll do a bit of research on the wizard, bard (cause I can’t help but think of varric tethras if dragon age after suggestions of bard) and maybe sorcerer.
Don’t be surprised if there’s a topic on X class in the future.

A massive Thankyou to everyone who offered me their advice and opinions in this thread. Always appreciated.

[CTurbo]

I'd choose Lore Bard over Wizard. A Bard in general is going to be good at every check and also provides the much need face skills.

[Eldariel]

Wizard seems to add most of what you're missing, especially with the versatile ritual casting and ability to learn all its spells. You have two fighter types already (Wizard can generate more as necessary) but you're kinda missing some control spells and such. Wizard, Druid, Bard; one of those three would give the most of what the party is missing right now with different emphases (best casting out of Wizard, best skills out of Bard, best all-round out of Druid). Given you've been thinking about Wizard, go with that. Skill-wise you'll be fine (though putting tertiary stats in Charisma as non-Bard would be sensible in this group).