Help with a Homebrew setting - Magical Wilderness and Why - Hypersmith stay out.

[TheAxeman]

So I'm a VERY new DM. I need advice for a campaign that I'm running with my friends, two of which are my normal DM's. They've had fun playing so far ( maybe 5 sessions or so ). Now I need help though, with the continuity of the world. Normally I'd turn to them to help me but they're playing characters and i want the world to be a surprise to them ( and for them to be impressed with my skillz)

So anyway, I truly need help with what and why. Some background on my world is there is only one known kingdom (the one all the PC's are from) and south of this kingdom is an enormous forest of redwood trees that was demon infested until recently because of certain events. Now that it's assumedly safe they are exploring what it is and what it has to offer.
Here are my notes on my world ( I know they are messy).

I'm essentially asking for someone who's willing to help me come up with ideas, bounce ideas off of and assist me in building my world. I have a bit more than I've posted here ( maps and such). You can contact me on discord @axeman6199 if the forums are too slow of contact

What do you have to lose? After the victory by the First adventurers the redwood is no longer demon infested. You have elected to be a part of a small team of people to be the first to explore it's mystery. Many a legend talk of what the redwood has to hold. You are colonists, with limitless opportunity ahead of you. Here you stand at the edge of the redwood, surrounded by nature. As you take the first step into the complete unknown.





Underground River,
There is a river that cuts through (diagonally) majority of the redwood but at some point it goes underground into a lake, which leads to a flooded ruin. The lake is rich with mineral deposits and crystals. The underground lake is the lair of the Blue Dragon

The Green Dragon lives in a network of caves between two large hills

The red dragon lives in the abandoned mountain fortress.


The ruins
An ancient civilization did once inhabit these redwoods, a society of people that lived in the woods and were driven out. The only place in the woods that tells the full story is in the mountain fortress.

The animals
This is a living thriving forest, birds in the sky and beats on and in the land. Fish in the water and each one has a variety of dangerous and non dangerous.
There will be sections of the forest that are inhabited by different kinds of creatures, and also monsters. I need to think about the effect that a demon infestation would have had on this forest. We're the demons just the creatures of the forest and now they're back to normal?

The demons
They are banished, the four adventurers literally gave their lives to end the violence caused by the demon horde. It was done by taking the power that they were taunted with and using it against the demons. The wizard, the paladin, the cleric and the monk went into the ruins to discover a horde of demons that was insurmountable. The demon Lorde offered them great power to join the horde, these adventures were happy to accept such power. Then once it was granted to them they used it to slay the horde and entrap the demon Lorde by sacrificing their own bodies. Unbeknownst to them they trapped the demon Lorde because of circumstances I have not yet decided. There is a cave on the far side of the mountain range that will only be revealed once something has been decided or the PC completed the quest that unlocks it. Inside the cave there are drawings on the walls


Why does the forest exist
It's growth, while seeming natural, is enhanced. The forest existed, but the red wood trees, the giant pillars that fill the forest and sky, they are not. The birds and beats that have come around as a result are more or less a product of the same thing.

What brought it about
There exists something powerful in the middle of all of this. Something at the core of the redwood that brings it to life. Isaac or the Lost God. He was fleeing the persecution of his mother. He crashed down onto this planet into the forest. Or the forbidden child of two gods (the blue baby). Something that makes the forest magical beyond bounds.

Why did the demons invade
This is a tricky one. There was something about the forest, or maybe the kingdom, maybe it was the gods. Whatever it is, it had to do with the adventuring party stopping them, so I need to find out.

Why were the adventures sent

What's the goddamn timeline

Why was history erased
Everyone used to live in the forest, in four societies that were fairly spread out. In different communities that were riped with magic and technology. When the demons invaded (or when the god crashed) they were driven out by the amount of creatures coming in and the increase growth in nature. When they settled outside the forest on the river they were building and army together to reinvade and reclaim their homes. There were some people that thought they should stay were they settled. People were closer together and easier to control, there was a coup and power was taken from the original leaders. For awhile there was a militaristic state in place, holding power away from the people and some people fled back into the forest. After some years they were successful in brainwashing the new generations and convincing people that's where they had always lived.

Why does this world exist

What happened to Rock

Why are there golems in the forest

What does this have to do with the gods

Regions of the redwood
Eight regions
Five caves
Two underground caves
Three ruins one underwater
Sword in the Stone
One abandoned fortress
Signs of civilization scattered around
Latent demon items and presence

The eight Regions
The Dried Savannah
The Living Wood
The Cracked Roots
The Rainbow River
The Rolling Hills
The Mountain Fortress
The Frozen Forest
The Green Grasses



Pantheon (yes these names are stolen from BOI)
The Forgotten God
The Blue God- Sea and Storms
The Keeper- Lies, Greed, Guardians and Knowledge
The Lost God
Maggy - Love, Healing, disease and secrecy
Azazel- Death, Wisdom
Lazarus- Undead, Blood and Trust
Judas- Power, Smithing and Demons
Lilith- Animals and the Sea
Eve- Night, Hatred, Meditation and Order
Eden- Good and Evil Magic
Samson - Vengeance, Fire, Honor and War
Isaac

[Keravath]

Hi!

You have an interesting world concept but I think the problem you are having is that you haven't made it big enough. You have these cool ideas (kingdom and vast forest) that you want to include but you have a lot of questions why because you haven't made the context big enough or fleshed out the history. If you fill in these details then the rest should fall into place more easily.

For example - back the history up to before there was a forest. What was the world like.


Perhaps there were four large kingdoms occupying most of the area where the forest currently lies (assuming you make it big enough). These kingdoms were perhaps involved in conflicts. One was focused more on nature, another befriended dragons as allies, a third worked with demons while the remaining kingdom could have tried to enlist magic on their side.

The four nations had several border skirmishes and an uneasy peace perhaps for centuries until eventually they developed secret weapons they thought sufficient to overcome their neighbours. These were slowly deployed. Bands of demon marauders, dragon attackers, magical weapons, even awakened plants and trees.

Perhaps this all developed to one climactic battle, perhaps more enlightened people among the population could only see this conflict resulting in the destruction of the world. No one really knows what happened but somehow a cataclysmic event occurred as a result of the interaction of all these forces. Nature and magic caused a cataclysmic transformation. Starting from some center point and working outward a wave of magic engulfed part of the world. Nature went wild, plants, trees and animals grew and spread at an incredible rate, perhaps humanoids caught in the expansion either died or were transformed. The cataclysm spread with most of the regular people fleeing before it. Most books, knowledge and at least 90% of the inhabitants were lost. Those fleeing the cataclysm were more interested in survival than conflict. Mixed groups from each kingdom fled in every direction but areas closest to each kingdom were dominated by people and races from that kingdom.

These survivors formed widely scattered enclaves which are at the edges of the vast, perhaps continent sized, forest. There is little or no trade around the periphery of the forest since the distances are so great. Since most of those who survived were uneducated, little of this history is known.

While the wave of magic and nature created this forest the creatures controlled by the other factions broke free. The demons occupied the forest with a demon lord in charge. They owned the forest but were open to make deals with creatures on the periphery for travel at the edge in exchange for goods and services. No one was permitted to enter the wood. On the other hand, the dragons took what they wanted from the ruins that remained after the expansion of the forests. The dragons were far more powerful than the more numerous demons but after some time became bored and simply started to hibernate, waking every century or so to accumulate a bit more treasure before getting bored and going back to sleep again. There may be as many as 100 dragons of various kinds in the forest.

The center of the forest where the cataclysm originated contains a stone where the magic of the forest is bound. This would need to be "dealt" with in order to free the forest and its creatures from the ancient magic and permanently banish the demons. This would also possibly free these dragons from this plane and area though they might also choose to stay. The dragons could be both good and evil types but the magic of the stone perhaps makes them more aggressive or territorial.

The forest itself is full of ruins, deserted or buried cities, treasures and wealth of the original empires/kingdoms. Perhaps it is time for the continent to heal from the grievous wound inflicted by this ancient conflict whose effects are still being felt today.

The sacrifice of the last group of heroes has temporarily suppressed the demon horde in the forest. This makes it possible to explore deeper into the forest than ever before but perhaps the adventurers will find that unless the residue of the ancient magic is destroyed the demons will just return after a time. The stone draws them to this plane and holds them here. With the stone destroyed or deactivated the world will be safe from the demons and the existence of the humanoid races won't continue to hang by a thread on the periphery of the huge forest. (Perhaps the heroes will learn in their travels that the population and knowledge of the peripheral enclaves is still in decline and if something doesn't change they will likely die off within the next 5 to 10 generations leaving the world to the forest and the demons).

---

Anyway, perhaps some useful ideas there. You can work in your pantheon as you wish but I find god driven storylines to be less interesting usually since it is hard for mortals to oppose gods. However, you could have the gods influencing the heroes to work toward the survival of the humanoid races since perhaps they don't want their creation to die out and the nature of the magic employed makes it more difficult for them to manifest on and affect this plane.

Keep in mind that your players don't know ANY of this. This is all DM back story and you only reveal the smallest pieces to the players as they collect suitable information. From a player perspective they just grew up in some town and have been recruited to explore the forest since the demons appear to be gone due to the efforts of a group of adventurers. Perhaps the town they grew up in has some empty buildings though it is a busy town. Throw in a few signs of longer term decay. Perhaps the forest is somewhat larger than when their grand parents were around with the forest encroaching on a few new farmsteads every few years. Perhaps families tend to be smaller nearer the forest? Lots of little hints that can be added to the world that something larger scale might be going on but perhaps the players won't really be able to see it until they travel a bit and see more of the world.

[TheAxeman]

Keep in mind that your players don't know ANY of this. This is all DM back story and you only reveal the smallest pieces to the players as they collect suitable information.

Wow thank you so much! This is incredible. The idea of the four kingdoms enlisting some kind of magics is amazing. The cataclysmic event I keep going back to is a demi God fleeing to the plane and essentially crashing into it. Sending wild magic surging into the forest. As far as size the forest is huge. At least half of the continent it is on. I think I did the math for how long it is and ended up with 500 miles long and 280 miles wide. There is the mountain range and the rivers on either side. The ideas about the dragons and demons are incredible and I thank you so much for your help. As far as the Stone goes I like the idea of one think binding the entire forest together but I can't figure out what I want it to be. I have a hard time just coming up with backstory for the world and I don't know why. Thank you so much for your help, it's really amazing stuff and you hit marks that I'm already going to incorporate!!! Thanks again

[GreyBlack]

I'd like to take a step in the opposite direction and say that you're thinking too big. You're a self-admitted new DM (welcome to the fold!) and one of the biggest impulses for being a DM is to invent this grand, archnarrative for the players to explore and poke around in. That said, there's a risk of missing the forest for the trees here and focusing on stuff that your players might not be too interested in.

There is some interesting stuff in here, no doubt. That said... if I were you, I might focus on the lore that's important to the story you're going to tell right now and build from there.

And don't be afraid to not flesh everything out, too! Remember, Tolkien didn't know what Tom Bombadil's role in the world of Middle Earth was, and even some modern stories like Dark Souls just give little snippets of lore to the players and let them figure it out for themselves. Maybe they'll come up with something cooler than you had planned!

[Keravath]

I'd like to take a step in the opposite direction and say that you're thinking too big. You're a self-admitted new DM (welcome to the fold!) and one of the biggest impulses for being a DM is to invent this grand, archnarrative for the players to explore and poke around in. That said, there's a risk of missing the forest for the trees here and focusing on stuff that your players might not be too interested in.

There is some interesting stuff in here, no doubt. That said... if I were you, I might focus on the lore that's important to the story you're going to tell right now and build from there.

And don't be afraid to not flesh everything out, too! Remember, Tolkien didn't know what Tom Bombadil's role in the world of Middle Earth was, and even some modern stories like Dark Souls just give little snippets of lore to the players and let them figure it out for themselves. Maybe they'll come up with something cooler than you had planned!

I agree to some extent. The important part is the adventure that the players see right now. They don't know or care about the over-arching story of the world when the game starts.

There is one important reason though, in my experience, for the DM to understand their world at least at a rudimentary level. Consistency and continuity. I find that both my players and I as a DM LIKE to play in a world that is consistent and makes logical sense.

I don't need every encounter, every dungeon, every aspect of the world that the players encounter to be a part of some grand story. The world doesn't work like that usually. Most of the time, little events are little events. However, I've run campaigns where I created the pieces on the fly without having a structure to set them in. They were fun, players had a good time up to a point, but by the time they reached a higher level and were looking for more world significant story lines, I had a bunch of modules that they had played through that weren't consistent with anything. There were no narrative story elements baked into the content they had played that suddenly made sense when the greater scope of the story came into play at higher levels.

Perhaps your game will never get that far. It might be fine just to go with the little stories that are a lot of fun. The basic storyline the OP presented in the first post is fine. It needs to be fleshed out a bit with some of the world elements and encounters to support it but it doesn't really require more understanding of the world unless the game will progress to the point where that will matter.

As a beginning DM, it is important to focus on the encounters that the players are having now since that is why they are having fun. They don't know or care (and may never know or care) about the deeper lore backing up the world they are playing in. However, as a DM, I have found it useful to understand the world I am creating so that the pieces I put in it make sense and are consistent and I don't think it is bad for even a beginning DM to have a better understanding of the world they create.

P.S. It is important to keep in mind, especially in the beginning, that the players/characters aren't there for the grand story, they are there to have fun.

[TheAxeman]

That said, there's a risk of missing the forest for the trees here...
Thank you for your advice! I really appreciate all the help everyone is giving because I honestly expected none!! I think I was doing your strategy for majority of the campaign thus far. Essentially up until two sessions ago they were traversing the forest southward to find some source of water. Along that journey I made a map of the region and added points to it. Then I made an enormous random encounter table that ranged from finding an injured creature to a field of flowers to just deadly combat encounters. Now that they've reached the river they are starting to set up a home base. This most recent session they've found a very large redwood tree that inside of it contains a number of items and I want it to have lore than connects to a bigger world. I think because trudging around a forest and fighting random things and maybe there's a cave with demons in it, I don't feel like my players will enjoy. I know they are the type to want a slow build up to a huge climactic event that they can feel like they had a part in orchestrating. I just feel I lack the tool to execute such a grand story. I don't know what I want to do with the point there at. So far I've just been giving them items the old adventuing party left behind but with the addition of Keravaths ideas I can do a lot more with my world. Now I just need to sit down and write a ton, which is where I believe your advice comes in. DMing is hard.

[TheAxeman]

P.S. It is important to keep in mind, especially in the beginning, that the players/characters aren't there for the grand story, they are there to have fun.
Yeah I think my players are at the point where they need the story to drive the campaign. They've all gotten to know one another and now there needs to be some loose tracks to follow that will lead them to the possibility of a satisfying story. I know DnD never works like that but I want to give them the option to have it I guess. DMing is hard.

[Tawmis]

Not sure what the timeline is like between the demigod fleeing and the demons...

But, if it has some wiggle room...

Why not make it so that Demigod took the guise of a mortal, fleeing from his Mother (as you currently have him doing) and hoped to hide among the humans.

Even in the guise of a mortal, he reeked of magic, and began teaching humans and elves how to wield magic (when the world was still young, and these races were still relatively new).

The Elves, naturally attuned to magic, were able to easily harvest the magic. However, the humans, not naturally magical, became corrupt and wanted more. (Think of it, similar to a drug addiction).

In doing so, they unlocked the darker side of magic - and opened a portal to demons, hoping to seize their power (or drawn by their promises of power) - and in doing so created an infestation of demons which wiped out many of the humans and elves of these great woodlands - and a powerful demon lord stepped through - sensed the demigod - and captured him - and began leeching off his power.

It was this power the demon lord promised those who came to stop him; and that the heroes turned against the demon lord.

Over the years, humans learned from their mistakes and learned to better control and manipulate magic; but this has created some distrust between elves and humans.

The demigod, still imprisoned somewhere in the forest is what continues to feed the magic in the world.

Will freeing him from whatever prison holds him remove magic? Or was magic always in the world and he just showed mortals how to use it?

[Man_Over_Game]

I think that one important lesson that a lot of DMs learn the hard way is to learn to pace yourself.

It seems exhilarating to flesh out a massive world and write down all of your thoughts, but the fact is:


The players are going to experience less than half of what you write
The "honeymoon" feeling goes away
The more you plan, the less your players' actions matter


You're going to feel pressured to constantly keep up on developing the world in order to maintain your perceived belief of your players' expectations. That is, they were happy last session, you planned a lot for it, so you have to continue planning a lot for it. The fact is, your players will also have fun playing for a session you spent only an hour preparing for. Lots of players hit this problem and suffer burnout by not pacing themselves, since it feels like all the effort you have/will put in is futile.

Additionally, writing a thorough world does make it feel more vivid to the players, but it also ends up causing the consequences of their actions to be extremely rigid.

For example, elves in the nearby kingdom treat all monsters in the royal forest as magic, in an attempt to appease some god, or whatever. As a result, the forest is mostly bare of elvish influence. Players go in, kill a Chimera, or whatever, and then are hunted by the elvish kingdom. As a player, they see that they had few clues to this outcome and that they made a 'bad' decision with no real choice. It feels like railroading.
Of course, the alternative would mean erasing that the elvish kingdom was there, or as powerful as you planned, and now you're retconning a bunch of stuff that you had previously written into the world.

Don't make a DM plot that has an extensive history, but rather show how things influence one another. Magic Kingdom hires Poor Kingdom workers to work in toxic magic gem mines. Poor Kingdom regularly raids islands of gnomes for these slaves, due to their resistance to magical effects, under the guise of 'unaffiliated' pirates. Gnomish wizard NPC the party is interacting with is from these islands, and has great disdain for mercenaries, pirates, and other casters.

Some of the most successful DMs are ones that decide things on-the-spot. You don't need to decide the Gnome's personality before he's in the game, you just have to think about what his personality should be based on what influences had an active part in his life.

What this allows you to do is to not be so narrow-minded when it comes to creating content. You're no longer trying to explain an entire history of a forest in every little path, but rather you're able to focus on how this forest is currently being influenced by a demon taking over Hell (however minute that influence may currently be). Players care more about what will happen than what did happen, since the basic part of being a gamer is having consequences for your actions.

[TheAxeman]

Perhaps there were four large kingdoms occupying most of the area where the forest currently lies (assuming you make it big enough). These kingdoms were perhaps involved in conflicts. One was focused more on nature, another befriended dragons as allies, a third worked with demons while the remaining kingdom could have tried to enlist magic on their side.

Here's what I have so far: I'd love feedback!

The reign of fiends
I haven't quite gotten to this one because it resulted in somehow the demons coming back stronger after the other people fled the woods and successfully created a kingdom outside of the forest.

The kingdom of constructs
Isaac was found first by the kingdom of constructs. They mastered the ability to create small constructs to do tasks and even to defend homes. His radiating energy turned a construct into a full blown golem without him trying. While residing near the city and interacting with it's denizens he had given them the ability to create massive constructs at an unmatchable rate. They had constructs creating other constructs and even successfully made sentient golems and other intelligent creations. When Eden came upon the kingdom he first destroyed their ability to create them by taking away their resources. He then summoned the forest around him to steal the life given to the constructs. Till today the area around that kingdom has plants and trees who are awakened and full of fury. Some people and constructs escaped but not many. Some constructs made it deeper into the forest, some people escaped out of the woods.

The draconic domain
These people worshipped the dragons of the forest. Some were dragon born and many other races. Majority of their practices were ritual praising the dragons. Sacrificing food and treasures for their favor. When Isaac came upon them his mere magical presence intimidated the dragons. The people witnessing this were awestruck at his power. They turned to worshipping him and he gave them the ability to control the dragons. Use them to their own will. Attacking the other kingdoms and building hoards for their dragons. When Eden ripped this ability away from them the dragons revolted and murdered many of the domain. Some escaped into their mountain fortress and then away out of the forest. Those who remained in the fortress died at the hands of the red dragon who remains there.


The territory of wild magic
The people of wild magic were the first to notice the shift of the forest when Isaac arrived. Not understanding what caused it they assumed it was a boom of nature from the gods (which technically it was). They worshipped harder and believed their faith brought Isaac to them. There in the territory of wild magic he imbued everything with magic. They were the original cultivators of the redwood trees, learning the only way to get a redwood tree to seed was to burn it's trunk. He put magic into their weapons and into the nature around them. He showed them how to harness the power of the redwood trees. The true power of the redwood trees. They applauded and cheered and thanked the gods. The territory had suffered a great loss at the hands of the demons, the dragons and constructs had worked together. The final thing Isaac left was the stick he touched before she sent Eden. The territory had stored the magic items he gave them in the eight trees that grew when he landed.

The battle
When Eden came though, only a week from when Isaac showed up in the territory. Eden crashed into the plane with a thuderous landing. He immediately stormed into the territory and confronted Isaac. An earth shaking fight ensued with the conclusion being Isaac losing and Eden going to each of the kingdoms and undoing what Isaac had done. Eden retracted the latent magic that Isaac had left all over the content. He ripped the items from their hands and hunted the abilities they were given to control dragons. He attempted to undo everything Isaac did but the what was done was done. Two gods trampling around on a constant meant for men was too much. The redwood was full of magic, active and passive, creature and plants, items and people.